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Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

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Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by bristow on 21.03.12 23:59

I am now feeling more and more hopeful that justice will be done in this upsetting case, but what if, after the review and everything is said and done there is a whitewash, or SY declare the case totally closed, everyone is innocent etc etc?

Where would we stand then? Would we all just have to give up? What more could we do? Would that be the end?
Surely all the hard work that has been put in by the excellent top researchers on this site wouldn't be defunct?
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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by nomendelta on 22.03.12 7:46

I will still be interested in uncovering the truth but sadly - as far as the wider public are concerned we will be seen as cranks. We've had a Princess die under extremely dubious circumstances, a Prime Minister sending troops to war on false information, the current shenanigans with phone tapping and banks losing our money, getting more of our money and paying themselves handsome rewards for the pleasure. The great British public sadly follow the trend and if there is a whitewash, more than ever, any people like ourselves questioning things will be seen as sad, bitter and twisted.

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by PeterMac on 22.03.12 7:56

People are still "purporting theories" about Jack the Ripper, and Hitler; they are still investigating the cause of death of Tutenkhamen; they are still looking for more details about what exactly happened to the Titanic.....

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by aquila on 22.03.12 8:37

@PeterMac wrote:People are still "purporting theories" about Jack the Ripper, and Hitler; they are still investigating the cause of death of Tutenkhamen; they are still looking for more details about what exactly happened to the Titanic.....

PM, you forgot to mention Lord Lucan who apparently is/was alive and well and living in Kenya.

If nothing comes of the SY review and it is played down then I think things will fizzle out by design and it may well be 'archived' as a 'mystery'. However, I don't think that the fight for justice for Madeleine will be ignored by we 'loons' especially if the Mc's go onto high profile jobs/writing books/getting their faces on the tv et al. That would place a very big rat in my kitchen.
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the long term view.

Post by bobbin on 22.03.12 8:40

That is looking at it all from a ‘human’ or ‘personal’ level, and at just one point in time.

Seen from a more ‘philosophical’ stance, the truth is like water, it will always find its way past a blockage and rest only when it finds its own level.

For all the edifice of dikes, one small weakness can fell the lot and drown the land which has been re-captured from the sea or like a damn, one small fissure, one unforeseen shake, and the whole lot can fall, sweeping away all in its track.

Falsehood is a position that has to be maintained. The more persistent the efforts to expose a falsehood, the greater and more draining on the soul, is the effort needed to suppress that exposure.

The truth maintains itself with no effort.

I’m not against dikes or dams, it’s just that the force of nature will claim its natural equilibrium unless an incremental effort is made to keep the weaknesses shored up.

We refer to information that comes out IN SPITE OF attempts to conceal it, as 'leaks'. That is what the McCanns have to live with. When and whence will that weakness break through.

That is what Tony Blair has to live with, regarding the Iraq war, and it shows in his face and his eyes. Big wheeler dealer for this moment in time, he might be raking in the £illions, but he is a ‘shunned’ man. Where is the joy in any of that.

Regarding David Kelly, the Twin Towers, J.F. Kennedy, along with all the rest, the public know in their bones that suspicious circumstances have been given flimsy and patently unacceptable back-filled explanations which just don’t 'hold water'.

There is a very good saying, based on the observations over eons of time. ‘Be sure thy sins will find thee out’.

The isolation of living a ‘shunned’ life, the fear of not knowing when or whence that sword will strike, that is what liars and shysters have to live with and sooner or later it will take its toll.

Regarding our role in hastening justice, persistence like water will find another way through when one route is blocked. It will persist in gnawing away at the weak spots and hasten the level-ing day.

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.03.12 9:22

@bobbin wrote:Seen from a more ‘philosophical’ stance, the truth is like water, it will always find its way past a blockage and rest only when it finds its own level.

For all the edifice of dikes, one small weakness can fell the lot and drown the land which has been re-captured from the sea or like a dam, one small fissure, one unforeseen shake, and the whole lot can fall, sweeping away all in its track.

Falsehood is a position that has to be maintained. The more persistent the efforts to expose a falsehood, the greater and more draining on the soul, is the effort needed to suppress that exposure.

The truth maintains itself with no effort...the force of nature will claim its natural equilibrium unless an incremental effort is made to keep the weaknesses shored up.
Brilliant! A statement worthy of the likes of Aristotle or Plato; Shakespeare, Milton or Hume; Schopenhauer* or Wittgenstein.

I'll drop a note to the editor of the Oxford Dictionary of Quotations asking him to include this in the next edition.

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All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer German philosopher (1788 - 1860)

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by rainbow-fairy on 22.03.12 9:25

@bristow wrote:I am now feeling more and more hopeful that justice will be done in this upsetting case, but what if, after the review and everything is said and done there is a whitewash, or SY declare the case totally closed, everyone is innocent etc etc?

Where would we stand then? Would we all just have to give up? What more could we do? Would that be the end?
Surely all the hard work that has been put in by the excellent top researchers on this site wouldn't be defunct?
I'm pretty certain that that could not happen bristow.
SY would not be able to declare the case closed, it was and remained Portugal's case, surely?
Nobody can be 'declared innocent' without a court case.
Aren't I right in thinking that cases are never closed if they aren't solved? Put on ice perhaps, but never closed...

Seeing as PT are 'co-operating' with SY and still have primacy, I don't think SY will be able to whitewash it by saying the Portuguese arrived at the wrong conclusions?
I believe the two countries working together is a very encouraging sign.
Could PeterMac clear up whether I'm right or wrong? If I'm wrong, I'm more than happy to admit it. You can't learn without making a few mistakes...

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by nomendelta on 22.03.12 10:17

@PeterMac wrote:People are still "purporting theories" about Jack the Ripper, and Hitler; they are still investigating the cause of death of Tutenkhamen; they are still looking for more details about what exactly happened to the Titanic.....

Yes but as far as the mainstream goes, most people (and they are all subjects that interest me personally!) will dismiss these as sad obsessions.

However I do hope there isn't a whitewash (the dismissal of M3's "evidence" seems a positive sign) and let's not forget this isn't about giving us all something to chew over and unravel. It's about justice for a little girl who disappeared in mysterious circumstances. For her sake I sincerely hope that the SY team resolve this once and for all and justice is duly served.

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by PeterMac on 22.03.12 11:14

Agree with TB. Very nicely put. Well crafted.

And whilst we are on quotes, try this
John Stuart Mill, On Liberty
If all mankind minus one, were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.
Were an opinion a personal possession of no value except to the owner; if to be obstructed in the enjoyment of it were simply a private injury, it would make some difference whether the injury was inflicted only on a few persons or on many.
But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it.
If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.

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common law

Post by bobbin on 22.03.12 11:24

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/author/danielhannan/


Defenders of the concepts of democracy, human rights and above all, Common Law, Daniel Hannan and Nigel Farage are two very courageous UK MEPs who take on the idiocy and corrupt ideals of the EU Commission with their bold and outright speeches.


If we need courage to continue in the face of any potential ‘white-washing’ I would recommend watching the second video in particular, where Daniel Hannan is addressing a meeting in Canada, the ‘Alliance of free English-Speaking Peoples.’


His reference to Common Law and the status of its origin is so refreshing, especially at a time when we need the courage to believe in what we are doing, why we are here and what we should continue to do.


He refers to Anglo Saxon Common Law, because that is the audience he is addressing.

I would go further and claim it for all peoples, even those living under tyrannies and who are fighting so clearly, as in Syria now, to free themselves from tyrannical rule.


Well worth seeing video 2 just to help up to re-establish our own grounding and it is very good to know that these two men are permanent thorns in the flesh of the EU unelected political elite, challenging them and defending for us, our common sense views.

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Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Post by Ross on 22.03.12 13:03

An interesting discussion here, and one that could branch off into many directions. In the interests of brevity I'd just say this. In Shakespeare's time, when his plays (although a man called 'Shakespeare' probably did not write them) were performed at the Globe Theatre, there were actually two plays shown. The works as we know them are full of allegory and symbolic meaning relating not just to the politics of the day but also to deeply esoteric occulted knowledge. This depth and subtlety would have been lost on the commoners watching from the pit, so for their benefit a much simplified version was performed beforehand so they could at least follow the surface narrative of the full play. This version was known as the 'Dumb Show'. So while the politicos, court intriguers and sorcerers of the day were watching complex and revealing truths from their lofty perches, the hoi-poloi down in the pit were chortling at the knob gags and throwing the odd rotten tomato when something displeased.
The media of today is that same Dumb Show of old, and while we are sitting transfixed at the shiny thing being waved by the right hand, the left hand is doing something else altogether.
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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by Ribisl on 22.03.12 14:08

Bobbin - great post thumbup

Falsehood is a position that has to be maintained. The more persistent the efforts to expose a falsehood, the greater and more draining on the soul, is the effort needed to suppress that exposure.

The truth maintains itself with no effort.

"Truth is always a delusion." (Friedrich Durrenmatt)

But I am an eternal optimist and therefore believe the T7 will crack very soon big grin

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by tigger on 22.03.12 15:37

The problem with the great majority of people who read or watch the news is this:

In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.
- Autobiography of Mark Twain

I think it describes the way the McCann case has been reported perfectly.

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by russiandoll on 22.03.12 15:43

I think it was also Mark Twain who said if you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything.

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by Kololi on 22.03.12 16:56

Rainbow-fairy wrote,

"Nobody can be 'declared innocent' without a court case."

I am guessing that you mean somebody who has been accused of doing something bad but who has not yet been tried?

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Re-Apologies in advance for pessimistic question.

Post by sijm on 22.03.12 17:25

Well, I for one am not giving up, why even now I would hazard a guess SY is still receiving interesting new leads and

they only need that big one to maybe solve the case.

So what if the McCanns are exonerated, at the very least your work for Madeleine will hopefully, deter another childs death, so well done you lot!

We teach our children all the time that inquisitive minds are a healthy sign, Yes!

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by bobbin on 22.03.12 17:35

@nomendelta wrote:I will still be interested in uncovering the truth but sadly - as far as the wider public are concerned we will be seen as cranks. We've had a Princess die under extremely dubious circumstances, a Prime Minister sending troops to war on false information, the current shenanigans with phone tapping and banks losing our money, getting more of our money and paying themselves handsome rewards for the pleasure. The great British public sadly follow the trend and if there is a whitewash, more than ever, any people like ourselves questioning things will be seen as sad, bitter and twisted.

I think it's very easy to feel 'out numbered' and that we are but a tiny voice in an immense wilderness. It is not like that however, if you take a step back and look around. There is plenty to take heart from.

http://www.naturalnews.com/035308_medications_overdose_murder.html

This article shows that the tide does turn, eventually.

Big-pharma and their prescribing lap-dog doctors are getting caught out and this article shows us three things.

1. Not all doctors, e.g. Harald Shipman, are good, honest and respectable citizens.
2. The colossal and to date, unchallengeable monopoly of big-pharma is actually being taken to task by a court finding that medicines can kill.
3. That all doctors need to start to fear for their own practices, now that the word is out.

A friend's mother is prescribed 25 different medications per day.
Multiplied by 365 that is 9,125 tablets per annum.
Over three years that will exceed the figure which is allowing the accusation of the chinese doctor of murder. My friend's mother is not an exception. I have another friend who has been on much the same number.

We can all too easily think we are up against the might of authorities, their ability to cover up and conceal the truth, to put laws in place to protect their known and as yet unknown sins.
For so long the abusers can seem un-vanquishable, and yet, we have seen the demise of the cigarette industry, and now we will start to see that doctors who prescribe, willy nilly at Bigpharma's behest, will become increasingly under both public and the court's scrutiny.

With this milestone murder accusation we are seeing the first cracks.

Hold on in there. Persistence is what makes the difference between apathetic enslavement and the change for good.

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by rainbow-fairy on 22.03.12 18:51

@bobbin wrote:
@nomendelta wrote:I will still be interested in uncovering the truth but sadly - as far as the wider public are concerned we will be seen as cranks. We've had a Princess die under extremely dubious circumstances, a Prime Minister sending troops to war on false information, the current shenanigans with phone tapping and banks losing our money, getting more of our money and paying themselves handsome rewards for the pleasure. The great British public sadly follow the trend and if there is a whitewash, more than ever, any people like ourselves questioning things will be seen as sad, bitter and twisted.

I think it's very easy to feel 'out numbered' and that we are but a tiny voice in an immense wilderness. It is not like that however, if you take a step back and look around. There is plenty to take heart from.

http://www.naturalnews.com/035308_medications_overdose_murder.html

This article shows that the tide does turn, eventually.

Big-pharma and their prescribing lap-dog doctors are getting caught out and this article shows us three things.

1. Not all doctors, e.g. Harald Shipman, are good, honest and respectable citizens.
2. The colossal and to date, unchallengeable monopoly of big-pharma is actually being taken to task by a court finding that medicines can kill.
3. That all doctors need to start to fear for their own practices, now that the word is out.

A friend's mother is prescribed 25 different medications per day.
Multiplied by 365 that is 9,125 tablets per annum.
Over three years that will exceed the figure which is allowing the accusation of the chinese doctor of murder. My friend's mother is not an exception. I have another friend who has been on much the same number.

We can all too easily think we are up against the might of authorities, their ability to cover up and conceal the truth, to put laws in place to protect their known and as yet unknown sins.
For so long the abusers can seem un-vanquishable, and yet, we have seen th
e demise of the cigarette industry, and now we will start to see that doctors who prescribe, willy nilly at Bigpharma's behest, will become increasingly under both public and the court's scrutiny.

With this milestone murder accusation we are seeing the first cracks.

Hold on in there. Persistence is what makes the difference between apathetic enslavement and the change for good.
Bravo bobbin.
That is it in a nutshell - and that is why I am going nowhere!
I'm quite used to being in a minority - and I'm quite happy with it. At least my point of view is considered, not what the red-tops have drilled into me like Chinese water torture... Drip, drip, drip... Its insidious and it can worm its way in if you are of the right mindset.
I applaud all here who are here for the right reasons - to learn, to raise awareness - and to give a voice to a little girl who no longer has her own Sad

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by russiandoll on 23.03.12 9:14

Good post, bobbin....what are you referring to here though?


With this milestone murder accusation we are seeing the first cracks.

who is accusing whom of murder?

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Re: Apologies in advance for a pessimistic question

Post by PeterMac on 23.03.12 11:34

Before people get too hung up about all this -
2. The colossal and to date, unchallengeable monopoly of big-pharma is actually being taken to task by a court finding that medicines can kill.
Of course they can. That is the whole point of taking a drug.
The trick is to get the dose right, so that it kills the agent causing the problems or stimulates the body's own defences by simulating illness, but does not harm the patient.
Aspirin is lethal in relatively small doses, paracetamol mucks up the liver, and the Old Wives cure of Digitalis, well ....
Drink enough water and you will die. (Which is incidentally what causes most of the deaths officially attributed to "ecstasy")

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sorry russiandoll, I had missed a bit off my original post

Post by bobbin on 23.03.12 13:38

Hello russiandoll,

I am sorry if I confused you but I had included in my original post, the reference below, to Michael Jackson’s 'Doctor Murray'. Because I always have to edit and re-align the words however, it looks as though for some reason that reference got ‘lost’.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/nov/07/michael-jackson-conrad-murray-guilty

Reference to Doctor Murray, as 'already having been found guilty', makes a bit more sense of the gist of my argument, so I can understand your query.

"There's a new prosecutorial focus”…..

For the rest of my argument, about the fact that once we see a weakness more ‘cracks begin to show’, we are now seeing two more cases of ‘accusation of murder’.

(quote from Natural News)

A California doctor accused of carelessly dispensing prescription drugs to patients who may not necessarily have needed them is facing murder charges following the deaths of several of these patients. The U.K.'s Daily Mail reports that Dr. Hsiu-Ying Tseng, 42, prescribed more than 27,000 medications to patients over a three-year period, which translates into an average of 25 prescriptions a day, which resulted in several of their deaths.

Vu Nguyen, 29, of Lake Forest; Steven Ogle, 25, of Palm Desert; and Joseph Rovero III, 21, of San Ramon all met their fate after obtaining prescriptions from Tseng for various pain and anxiety symptoms. According to records held by the Osteopathic Medical Board, Tseng failed to properly examine these three young men in accordance with care guidelines, and proceeded to just give them the dangerous drugs for no medical reason.

The prescription opiate drugs oxycodone (OxyContin) and hydrocodone (Vicodin) were among those linked to the men's deaths, as were certain benzodiazepine drugs and the anti-anxiety drug Xanax. But because Tseng allegedly already knew that her prescribing methods were linked to causing patient deaths prior to the more recent deaths, prosecutors have charged her with second-degree murder and 21 other felony counts related to prescribing prescription drugs for no legitimate medical need.

"This case was beyond anything else we have ever seen," said Los Angeles County District Attorney Steve Cooley in a statement, noting that the case was heavily investigated prior to the serious charges being filed. "Dr. Feelgoods who knowingly over-prescribe drugs for no medical reason other than someone asks for the drugs and pays the doctor a staggering amount of money will be dealt with severely" (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com).

Tseng is currently being held on $3 million bail. If convicted, she could face life in prison.

In a similar case, Dr. Harriston L. Bass, Jr. of Las Vegas was recently arrested for murder after a patient to which he sold
prescription drugs died. In that case, the Nevada Attorney General's office conducted a thorough investigation for six months before levying the same second-degree murder charge that Tseng received, as well as 21 counts of sale of a controlled substance, and six counts of possession for the sale of a controlled substance (http://www.8newsnow.com).

"There's a new prosecutorial focus
on these pill mills, which are doctors that are creating a cottage industry of addicts," added Steven Clark, a legal analyst from South Bay, Calif., about such cases (http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com).

Sources for this article include:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk (end quote from Natural News)


My point was to give courage to members on this forum, to stay on in the fight, when we think we are up against the most ‘untouchable of giants and all those who are protected in their shadows'.

Although the doctors McCann may appear to control everything and be immune at present from all forms of ‘justice’ these emerging court cases are challenging the ‘sacrosanct respect shown to doctors and questioning the over dispensing of medicines’.

The emergence of a new prosecutorial focus is showing us that where there is a weakness, even the most protected parts of the 'establishment' can be subject to challenge in the courts.

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