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Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 13.06.15 16:35

Here is where it says about CC in the cupboard:

c) in addition, Eddie the cadaver dog was taken to the house that the McCanns rented, in a different part of Praia da Luz, after they left Apartment 5A. Eddie found cadaverine on what was said to be Madeleine’s favourite pink soft toy, ‘Cuddle Cat’, which Dr Kate McCann always had with her when being interviewed by the media - but which Eddie detected lying in an otherwise empty cupboard. Here it should be noted that, earlier, Eddie had found Cuddle Cat in the living room at the McCanns’ rented home, tossed it in the air, but not actually ‘marked’ it by barking. He later marked it when the police re-located it in the cupboard.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by lj on 14.06.15 5:51

Joss wrote:Here is where it says about CC in the cupboard:

c) in addition, Eddie the cadaver dog was taken to the house that the McCanns rented, in a different part of Praia da Luz, after they left Apartment 5A. Eddie found cadaverine on what was said to be Madeleine’s favourite pink soft toy, ‘Cuddle Cat’, which Dr Kate McCann always had with her when being interviewed by the media - but which Eddie detected lying in an otherwise empty cupboard. Here it should be noted that, earlier, Eddie had found Cuddle Cat in the living room at the McCanns’ rented home, tossed it in the air, but not actually ‘marked’ it by barking. He later marked it when the police re-located it in the cupboard.

That sounds as if it was the same one Joss? If I have time I'll try to find the Martin Grimes video. It would be hard to explain2 CC that provoke Eddie's alert though.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by BlueBag on 14.06.15 8:07

lj wrote:
Joss wrote:Here is where it says about CC in the cupboard:

c) in addition, Eddie the cadaver dog was taken to the house that the McCanns rented, in a different part of Praia da Luz, after they left Apartment 5A. Eddie found cadaverine on what was said to be Madeleine’s favourite pink soft toy, ‘Cuddle Cat’, which Dr Kate McCann always had with her when being interviewed by the media - but which Eddie detected lying in an otherwise empty cupboard. Here it should be noted that, earlier, Eddie had found Cuddle Cat in the living room at the McCanns’ rented home, tossed it in the air, but not actually ‘marked’ it by barking. He later marked it when the police re-located it in the cupboard.

That sounds as if it was the same one Joss? If I have time I'll try to find the Martin Grimes video. It would be hard to explain2 CC that provoke Eddie's alert though.
I'm not sure where the two CC thing has come from?

Can someone explain why they think there are two in simple terms?
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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 14.06.15 8:31

BlueBag wrote:
lj wrote:
Joss wrote:Here is where it says about CC in the cupboard:

c) in addition, Eddie the cadaver dog was taken to the house that the McCanns rented, in a different part of Praia da Luz, after they left Apartment 5A. Eddie found cadaverine on what was said to be Madeleine’s favourite pink soft toy, ‘Cuddle Cat’, which Dr Kate McCann always had with her when being interviewed by the media - but which Eddie detected lying in an otherwise empty cupboard. Here it should be noted that, earlier, Eddie had found Cuddle Cat in the living room at the McCanns’ rented home, tossed it in the air, but not actually ‘marked’ it by barking. He later marked it when the police re-located it in the cupboard.

That sounds as if it was the same one Joss? If I have time I'll try to find the Martin Grimes video. It would be hard to explain2 CC that provoke Eddie's alert though.
I'm not sure where the two CC thing has come from?

Can someone explain why they think there are two in simple terms?
Not sure about x2 CC's, and have been trying to find something about it, but no luck so far.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.06.15 9:15

lj wrote:

It's strange I don't see it in the report, but there is a video of Eddie finding a second cuddle cat in a kitchen cabinet in the villa... There were at least 2 cuddle cats when Eddie and Keela came, Martin Grimes found that rather revealing.

REPLY: Joss has quoted this:

c) in addition, Eddie the cadaver dog was taken to the house that the McCanns rented, in a different part of Praia da Luz, after they left Apartment 5A. Eddie found cadaverine on what was said to be Madeleine’s favourite pink soft toy, ‘Cuddle Cat’, which Dr Kate McCann always had with her when being interviewed by the media - but which Eddie detected lying in an otherwise empty cupboard. Here it should be noted that, earlier, Eddie had found Cuddle Cat in the living room at the McCanns’ rented home, tossed it in the air, but not actually ‘marked’ it by barking. He later marked it when the police re-located it in the cupboard.

I think it's clear, then, that there were NOT two Cuddle Cats. The passage quoted above sums up what we saw on the video of Martin Grime. I think that when Grime saw Eddie toss Cuddle Cat in the air, he made a mental note to test whether there was any contamination of Cuddle Cat. He did so by hiding Cuddle Cat in that cupboard. And then Eddie made a clear alert. This has been much discussed on pro-McCann sites where it has endlessly been pointed out that 'Eddie did not alert at first'. Of course, as we know, Dr Kate McCann in her book attributes all of Eddie's alerts to the 'conscious or unconscious signals of the handler ('madeleine', p. 250).   


tigger wrote:

The bed Maddie allegedly slept on got no reaction from Eddie, which means that Cuddle Cat and the blanket were not contaminated on the night of the 3rd. I feel they were props. Textiles contaminate quite quickly and they were both on the bed for hours.

Now if Kate's clothes were contaminated and travelled with her, they would have contaminated everything in her suitcase. That was not the case. So that would mean that Cuddle Cat was contaminated at a later date? In fact Jon Corner said that the check pants were bought in Portugal, after Maddie disappeared.


REPLY: re: 'The bed Maddie allegedly slept on got no reaction from Eddie...'

That's correct. In fact I don't think he alerted to anywhere in the children's room.

re: 'which means that Cuddle Cat and the blanket were not contaminated on the night of the 3rd...'
I don't think that can be right. Cuddle Cat was seen, placed on the bed IIRC, in the photos taken on the night of 3rd May. I am sure that Cuddle Cat was already contaminated by then. We know that Kate washed Cuddle Cat at some stage, IIRC quite early on, stating that it was because he was dirty with sun-cream.

If @ tigger you are suggesting that IF Cuddle Cat was contaminated in 3 May, then it follows that it contaminated the bed and that therefore Eddie would have alerted to the bed when he was there at the end of July, I disagree.

In other words, if Cuddle Cat was placed there as a 'prop', and was already contaminated, I doubt whether that degree of close contact (Cuddle Cat and bed) would have been sufficient to make Eddie alert to the bed a whole three months later.


Regarding the Blue Bag, the subject of the thread, is this a correct summary of the thread so far?

1. There was a blue bag, it was photographed by the PJ in the wardrobe

2. No-one is absolutely sure what type of blue bag it was

3. When the PJ wanted to check it, it was no longer there. A working assumption would be that the McCanns got rid of it

4. The McCann Team have advanced two explanations about the blue bag: (a) we never had it, and (b) we had one, but it
was stolen 

5. Madeleine probably weighed around 15kg - 33lb. or somewhere between 2 and 3 stone

6. Such a weight could easily be carried in a sports bag

7. One explanation for Eddie alerting to the wardrobe in the McCanns' master bedroom could be that the blue bag photographed by the PJ had already been contaminated by a dead body having been carried inside it, then brought back to the apartment   

8. David Payne said that Gerry never had a bag 'big enough to hide a tennis racket in', and

9. The PJ were very interested in the blue bag and could not establish how it had disappeared from G5A.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 14.06.15 9:36

Thanks Tony for the clarification about the Cuddle cat. And the blue bag still remains a mystery as to where it went, and as with everything else with the McC's in this case and about the blue bag it all remains as clear as mud.

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blue bag

Post by willowthewisp on 14.06.15 15:02

Joss, 
I think we need to have Sir Bernard investigate the "Stealing of this Bag and Madeleine" So that is at Least Two items that were taken to Portugal never to be seen again!?
BHH has made arrests at every rank he obtained in the Metropolitan Police Service, according to the propaganda series the "Met" they really are in a sorry state, but they have only got themselves to Blame for the shenanigans and cover ups that they have colluded in!?
Remember when your parents taught you that you could always if in trouble call on the Police, it would seem that the meddling of our MP's and the funding of the service are interconnected, notice how much reliance they need to raise in fines, civil actions etc ?
Why are the Police force used to pull over motor vehicles in the pursuance of parking fines for "Private Companies" UK tax payer subsidising private profit, this is a civil matter no one had broken a law? pray2

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 14.06.15 17:01

willowthewisp wrote:Joss, 
I think we need to have Sir Bernard investigate the "Stealing of this Bag and Madeleine" So that is at Least Two items that were taken to Portugal never to be seen again!?
BHH has made arrests at every rank he obtained in the Metropolitan Police Service, according to the propaganda series the "Met" they really are in a sorry state, but they have only got themselves to Blame for the shenanigans and cover ups that they have colluded in!?
Remember when your parents taught you that you could always if in trouble call on the Police, it would seem that the meddling of our MP's and the funding of the service are interconnected, notice how much reliance they need to raise in fines, civil actions etc ?
Why are the Police force used to pull over motor vehicles in the pursuance of parking fines for "Private Companies" UK tax payer subsidising private profit, this is a civil matter no one had broken a law? pray2
Hi willow,  That is the sad truth of the corruption we are faced with at every turn nowadays, and the case of the mysterious  disappearance of Madeleine McCann only serves to highlight what we are up against, IMO.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by j.rob on 14.06.15 17:16

7. One explanation for Eddie alerting to the wardrobe in the McCanns' master bedroom could be that the blue bag photographed by the PJ had already been contaminated by a dead body having been carried inside it, then brought back to the apartment   
------


Does anyone know when the photo below was taken?










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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by j.rob on 14.06.15 17:36

It appears it was taken an hour after Madeleine was reported as missing.

GA: In that place the body would always decay. The issue with the bag is the following, Gerald McCann said at one point in time that he did not have any sports bag. Mark Harrison, an English expert, who did the planning of the searches that were carried out with the CSI dogs, of the cadaver odour and blood, at the ends of July, early August, puts forward that serious hypothesis - that the body was taken inside a sports bag3, he speaks of a golf bag, of a sports bag – and indeed a sports bag existed. There are photographs taken inside the apartment [rented by the McCanns/5A] immediately after the disappearance, an hour later, and the sports bag is there, inside the closet and is of a darkish blue colour. Thus, those photographs exist, contrary to what anyone can say that they did not own a sports bag – the sports bag was there. A sports bag, even though there wasn't any brand like “Adidas” in the bag, but it was a bag of that kind. So, what happened to that bag, what took place next, other situations ensued relatively to another bag, something that it’s not worth mentioning now here, there are people who also talk about a bag... That cliff area is an important zone, several people talked about it, there were many important events that took place there, events that people saw and suspected, in the golf course area, in the path to the geodesic mark, all in that area. Therefore, it is an area where it is worthwhile to make a search again. But to be searched in the scope of an investigation that is reopened.



http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-returns-to.html

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.06.15 17:55

j.rob wrote:It appears it was taken an hour after Madeleine was reported as missing.

GA: In that place the body would always decay. The issue with the bag is the following, Gerald McCann said at one point in time that he did not have any sports bag. Mark Harrison, an English expert, who did the planning of the searches that were carried out with the CSI dogs, of the cadaver odour and blood, at the ends of July, early August, puts forward that serious hypothesis - that the body was taken inside a sports bag3, he speaks of a golf bag, of a sports bag – and indeed a sports bag existed. There are photographs taken inside the apartment [rented by the McCanns/5A] immediately after the disappearance, an hour later, and the sports bag is there, inside the closet and is of a darkish blue colour. Thus, those photographs exist, contrary to what anyone can say that they did not own a sports bag – the sports bag was there. A sports bag, even though there wasn't any brand like “Adidas” in the bag, but it was a bag of that kind. So, what happened to that bag, what took place next, other situations ensued relatively to another bag, something that it’s not worth mentioning now here, there are people who also talk about a bag... That cliff area is an important zone, several people talked about it, there were many important events that took place there, events that people saw and suspected, in the golf course area, in the path to the geodesic mark, all in that area. Therefore, it is an area where it is worthwhile to make a search again. But to be searched in the scope of an investigation that is reopened.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-returns-to.html

Despite these being Goncalo Amaral's words in a TV interview, I think it must have been taken much longer after Madeleine's disappearance than the 'one hour' stated.

Goncalo Amaral was also reported as saying that Madeleine 'weighed 30kg'.

That was manifestly untrue; it was probably more like 30lb. - about half of 30kg.

These are the approximate timings IIRC:

10.00 Kate McCann and/or others raise the alarm (possibly earlier)

10.30 Ocean Club officially notified - GNR contacted

Timeline 1 written out by Russell O'Brien

Timeline 2 written out by Russell O'Brien

11.10 First McCann Team tel call to the media

11.20 (?) GNR arrive   

McCanns, Tapas 7 and Ocean Club/Mark Warner staff milling around in G5A

PJ summoned

11.50 (?) PJ arrive

Some of the Tapas group still there

PJ ask questions

They ask everyone to leave

THEN they take photos, after everyone has left.

I doubt if this photo was taken much before 1am, maybe later - thus a delay of 3 hours or more.

One further point re Cuddle Cat being on the bed in the (other) photo.   

Do we know if the bedding (on which Cuddle Cat lay) was totally undisturbed between 3rd May and the date Eddie alerted in G5A in various places and to Cuddle Cat in the villa (July 31/Aug 1 IIRC)?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 14.06.15 19:11

Tony Bennett wrote:
j.rob wrote:It appears it was taken an hour after Madeleine was reported as missing.

GA: In that place the body would always decay. The issue with the bag is the following, Gerald McCann said at one point in time that he did not have any sports bag. Mark Harrison, an English expert, who did the planning of the searches that were carried out with the CSI dogs, of the cadaver odour and blood, at the ends of July, early August, puts forward that serious hypothesis - that the body was taken inside a sports bag3, he speaks of a golf bag, of a sports bag – and indeed a sports bag existed. There are photographs taken inside the apartment [rented by the McCanns/5A] immediately after the disappearance, an hour later, and the sports bag is there, inside the closet and is of a darkish blue colour. Thus, those photographs exist, contrary to what anyone can say that they did not own a sports bag – the sports bag was there. A sports bag, even though there wasn't any brand like “Adidas” in the bag, but it was a bag of that kind. So, what happened to that bag, what took place next, other situations ensued relatively to another bag, something that it’s not worth mentioning now here, there are people who also talk about a bag... That cliff area is an important zone, several people talked about it, there were many important events that took place there, events that people saw and suspected, in the golf course area, in the path to the geodesic mark, all in that area. Therefore, it is an area where it is worthwhile to make a search again. But to be searched in the scope of an investigation that is reopened.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2012/03/maddie-case-goncalo-amaral-returns-to.html

Despite these being Goncalo Amaral's words in a TV interview, I think it must have been taken much longer after Madeleine's disappearance than the 'one hour' stated.

Goncalo Amaral was also reported as saying that Madeleine 'weighed 30kg'.

That was manifestly untrue; it was probably more like 30lb. - about half of 30kg.

These are the approximate timings IIRC:

10.00 Kate McCann and/or others raise the alarm (possibly earlier)

10.30 Ocean Club officially notified - GNR contacted

Timeline 1 written out by Russell O'Brien

Timeline 2 written out by Russell O'Brien

11.10 First McCann Team tel call to the media

11.20 (?) GNR arrive   

McCanns, Tapas 7 and Ocean Club/Mark Warner staff milling around in G5A

PJ summoned

11.50 (?) PJ arrive

Some of the Tapas group still there

PJ ask questions

They ask everyone to leave

THEN they take photos, after everyone has left.

I doubt if this photo was taken much before 1am, maybe later - thus a delay of 3 hours or more.

One further point re Cuddle Cat being on the bed in the (other) photo.   

Do we know if the bedding (on which Cuddle Cat lay) was totally undisturbed between 3rd May and the date Eddie alerted in G5A in various places and to Cuddle Cat in the villa (July 31/Aug 1 IIRC)?
Good question about the bedding. I'm not sure, but perhaps the crime scene was undisturbed until the dogs got there? I don't think anyone else would of stayed in 5A soon after Madeleine's disappearance? Unless the McC's cleaned the apartment before their move to the villa? Or the cleaners that serviced the apartments in between guests?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 14.06.15 19:48

Re the bedding: I was more thinking of the mattress being contaminated, the bedding could have been washed umpteen  times and would most likely be different altogether if OC supplied sheets and blankets. 

The pink blanket must have come back from the GNR before it disappeared  forever. 

If the corpse was transported in the bag, that would surely be the prime contaminating location? 
Maddie's body wasn't on the bed imo, I still think CC was not contaminated at that point. But iirc GA said that CC was a prime source and would have been close to the corpse. 
I do go on about it, but for me CC was a prop from the start and brand-new.

I think it was a night in the blue bag that did it and as Blue bag said, it's possible that cuddlecat then contaminated the clothes which included a t-shirt of Sean. 

Wonder what else they took (to the Payne's apartment), wasn't there something about a bag of medicines? 
Some of their clothes I expect, toiletries and the Canon? Because I think that was in the GNR photos and at least a day later GA notes that on seeing the camera he'd said 'We'll have that.' 
He didn't because by then Woolfall was on the job. 

Another thought: would Maddie's clothes have been in the bag as well? Because the PJ never got those either and if the apartment was sealed as a crime scene they'd not have needed to ask for them. 
Because there were also  two pairs of spare pyjamas if we are to believe Kate. (i think Dr.Roberts notes this in 'Dormant matters') would be strange if all those items were moved to the Paynes at about 04.00 ?

There were two lots of photos? i thought the first lot were made quite early by the GNR? Next lot without bag, Gerry's trews on the bed etc taken by the PJ?   May be wrong, back to the files...

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Rufus T on 14.06.15 21:50

The blue bag was photographed between 01:00 - 04:00 on the 4th May by PJ Joao Francisco Pascoa Luis Trigo Barreiras

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm

By the time the forensic team arrived at 15:30 on the 4th and photograph 5a no blue bag

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm
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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Verdi on 14.06.15 23:43

All this talk of Kate McCann's clothing and cuddlecat but what of Gerry McCanns clothing?  Not one of the group (including 'er indoors) seem to know what Gerry was wearing on the night of 3rd/4th May.  Dr Amaral, if I remember rightly, was more than interested to know what everyone was wearing but the information was never forthcoming.  So what became of Gerry's outfit worn on that night?

I always thought Witness testimony of Aoife Smith, 26 May 2007 (three weeks after the event) a bit strange..

His trousers were beige in colour, made of cotton, possibly with buttons, and without any other decoration.


She did not see what he was wearing above his trousers as the child covered him completely from the top.


She did not notice what shoes he was wearing.

Why did she say possibly with buttons -  a fleeting look yet she comments on his trousers possibly with buttons but didn't notice his shoes?  Even more strange when subsequent photographs of Gerry McCann show him wearing beige trousers with buttons?

Is cuddles a decoy cat?

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by tigger on 15.06.15 7:30

have not found it again, but long time ago I saw that a witness in aa bar spoke with Gerry and was asked by PJ what he was wearing. 

Jeans was the answer iirc. This would have been between 10.15 and midnight. So that's why I'm sure the beige trews on the bed were the result of a quick change.  

If somehow details of the Sagres stalker were known  beige trews are part of the  constructed narrative. 

a leit motiv one might say..laughat

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by j.rob on 15.06.15 13:12

Rufus T wrote:The blue bag was photographed between 01:00 - 04:00 on the 4th May by PJ Joao Francisco Pascoa Luis Trigo Barreiras

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm

By the time the forensic team arrived at 15:30 on the 4th and photograph 5a no blue bag

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

That's interesting. 

Talking of bags, I've snipped the post below from the Re: Jeremy Wilkins thread as it involves the alleged cleaning of a bag by Jez Wilkins and the alleged finding, within the bag being cleaned, of Robert Murat's card. Yet Jez has no recollection of Murat giving him his card.

Why would Jez Wilkin's want to "clean" a bag? I can understand unpacking a travel bag after a holiday and finding something in there. But why would you need to clean a bag after a beach resort family holiday?

What is being flagged up here?


One of the most interesting things Jez Wilkins' police interview about his time line to me is that whilst "cleaning a bag" he found Murat's card inside. With no recollection of him giving him his card.

How on earth would Murat have access to your luggage in your holiday apartment JW? Did he know your wife, let's face it the ladies normally oversee packing of holidays with children abroad. Did he go in your apartment?

Did someone else put it there?

Was it your bag?

What would you say now Jeremiah if you had the chance over again?
It's not too late to free yourself of the albatross attached to you and yours name for ever more, otherwise.
The time is nigh, for many to speak out imo.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by PeterMac on 15.06.15 14:07

Tony Bennett wrote:
Do we know if the bedding (on which Cuddle Cat lay) was totally undisturbed between 3rd May and the date Eddie alerted in G5A in various places and to Cuddle Cat in the villa (July 31/Aug 1 IIRC)?

The apartment had been stripped and probably cleaned. Bedding removed, beds put back into their usual positions, sofas restored to original positions,

See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EHJjpXii9o




at 2:07, parents' room, stripped down to mattress protector, and uncovered pillow
and then a clear view into the children's room at 3:35 ish , ditto.

It was Harrison who suggested bringing in the dogs. Before that the PJ would simply have worked it over as a crime scene with forensics,
and then handed it back. They had no reason to hold on to it as a crime scene.
I believe there is some confusion about whether it was, or was not let out in the intervening period.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Verdi on 15.06.15 22:55

tigger wrote:have not found it again, but long time ago I saw that a witness in aa bar spoke with Gerry and was asked by PJ what he was wearing. 

Jeans was the answer iirc. This would have been between 10.15 and midnight. So that's why I'm sure the beige trews on the bed were the result of a quick change.  

If somehow details of the Sagres stalker were known  beige trews are part of the  constructed narrative. 

a leit motiv one might say..laughat
Interesting, don't think I've heard that before.  The beige legs are quite strongly featured in the various descriptions of PdL midnight ramblers and other persons of interest aren't they?  Maybe Operation Grange would be put to better use investigating such matters rather than looking for errant burglars and deceased locals with a possible criminal record - or not as the case may be.

Talking of things that get lost in the mists of time, I remember reading something about Gerry McCann's mysterious comings and goings from apartment 5a on the night of 3rd May - not visits to reception or strolls around the pool area where he might be seen but more an unexplained disappearing act.  I think it may have been a witness statement rather than a press report - if anyone can throw any light on the subject I would be most grateful, in vain have I tried to find it myself.

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by sar on 16.06.15 11:07

j.rob wrote:
Rufus T wrote:The blue bag was photographed between 01:00 - 04:00 on the 4th May by PJ Joao Francisco Pascoa Luis Trigo Barreiras

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm

By the time the forensic team arrived at 15:30 on the 4th and photograph 5a no blue bag

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

That's interesting. 

Talking of bags, I've snipped the post below from the Re: Jeremy Wilkins thread as it involves the alleged cleaning of a bag by Jez Wilkins and the alleged finding, within the bag being cleaned, of Robert Murat's card. Yet Jez has no recollection of Murat giving him his card.

Why would Jez Wilkin's want to "clean" a bag? I can understand unpacking a travel bag after a holiday and finding something in there. But why would you need to clean a bag after a beach resort family holiday?

What is being flagged up here?


One of the most interesting things Jez Wilkins' police interview about his time line to me is that whilst "cleaning a bag" he found Murat's card inside. With no recollection of him giving him his card.

How on earth would Murat have access to your luggage in your holiday apartment JW? Did he know your wife, let's face it the ladies normally oversee packing of holidays with children abroad. Did he go in your apartment?

Did someone else put it there?

Was it your bag?

What would you say now Jeremiah if you had the chance over again?
It's not too late to free yourself of the albatross attached to you and yours name for ever more, otherwise.
The time is nigh, for many to speak out imo.
whilst "cleaning a bag" he found Murat's card inside.  Inclusion of needless detail??  Much???

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Verdi on 16.06.15 16:31

sar wrote:
j.rob wrote:
Rufus T wrote:The blue bag was photographed between 01:00 - 04:00 on the 4th May by PJ Joao Francisco Pascoa Luis Trigo Barreiras

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm

By the time the forensic team arrived at 15:30 on the 4th and photograph 5a no blue bag

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

That's interesting. 

Talking of bags, I've snipped the post below from the Re: Jeremy Wilkins thread as it involves the alleged cleaning of a bag by Jez Wilkins and the alleged finding, within the bag being cleaned, of Robert Murat's card. Yet Jez has no recollection of Murat giving him his card.

Why would Jez Wilkin's want to "clean" a bag? I can understand unpacking a travel bag after a holiday and finding something in there. But why would you need to clean a bag after a beach resort family holiday?

What is being flagged up here?


One of the most interesting things Jez Wilkins' police interview about his time line to me is that whilst "cleaning a bag" he found Murat's card inside. With no recollection of him giving him his card.

How on earth would Murat have access to your luggage in your holiday apartment JW? Did he know your wife, let's face it the ladies normally oversee packing of holidays with children abroad. Did he go in your apartment?

Did someone else put it there?

Was it your bag?

What would you say now Jeremiah if you had the chance over again?
It's not too late to free yourself of the albatross attached to you and yours name for ever more, otherwise.
The time is nigh, for many to speak out imo.
whilst "cleaning a bag" he found Murat's card inside.  Inclusion of needless detail??  Much???
I'm wondering if this another example of the operational strategy we've grown to expect from Kate and Gerry McCann i.e. throwing out seemingly irrelevant snippets of information which actually have huge significance - like the wholly (not sure whether that means entirely, sacred or full of holes) innocent explanation for any material the police may or may not have found.  Taken from Jez Wilkins rogatory interview on 08.04.2008..

"I do not remember if he gave me his details but recently when I was cleaning a bag, I came across a card with his name and telephone number. I believe that he may have given this to me so that we could contact him in case we had any additional information to offer. "

Contact him with additional information?  Isn't that the function of the official police investigation?  Reminds me of Murat's mother setting up a roadside stall to collate information from the public - ostensibly because the public might be hesitant to contact the police?  Hmmm..

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Re: Goncalo Amaral talks about The missing sports bag

Post by Joss on 17.06.15 9:02

j.rob wrote:
Rufus T wrote:The blue bag was photographed between 01:00 - 04:00 on the 4th May by PJ Joao Francisco Pascoa Luis Trigo Barreiras

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAO_BARREIRAS.htm

By the time the forensic team arrived at 15:30 on the 4th and photograph 5a no blue bag

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_FORENSIC_4_5_7.htm

That's interesting. 

Talking of bags, I've snipped the post below from the Re: Jeremy Wilkins thread as it involves the alleged cleaning of a bag by Jez Wilkins and the alleged finding, within the bag being cleaned, of Robert Murat's card. Yet Jez has no recollection of Murat giving him his card.

Why would Jez Wilkin's want to "clean" a bag? I can understand unpacking a travel bag after a holiday and finding something in there. But why would you need to clean a bag after a beach resort family holiday?

What is being flagged up here?


One of the most interesting things Jez Wilkins' police interview about his time line to me is that whilst "cleaning a bag" he found Murat's card inside. With no recollection of him giving him his card.

How on earth would Murat have access to your luggage in your holiday apartment JW? Did he know your wife, let's face it the ladies normally oversee packing of holidays with children abroad. Did he go in your apartment?

Did someone else put it there?

Was it your bag?

What would you say now Jeremiah if you had the chance over again?
It's not too late to free yourself of the albatross attached to you and yours name for ever more, otherwise.
The time is nigh, for many to speak out imo.
Could the finding Murat's card in a bag by JW tie in with the McCann's and perhaps others known to the McC's, trying to fit Murat up for abducting Madeleine?

(Quote)


Kate McCann: My suspicions over Murat's alibi on the night Madeleine vanished [color:28a1=000000]Daily Mail

By VANESSA ALLEN, Last updated at 16:24pm on 1st January 2008

Kate McCann is suspicious about Robert Murat's alibi for the night her daughter Madeleine vanished, it was revealed yesterday.



The mother of three has confided to friends she believes there are questions about the British expat that need to be answered.



Mrs McCann's doubts emerged after the Daily Mail reported that seven witnesses claim to have seen Mr Murat near the McCanns' holiday apartment on the night of May 3.

He has always insisted he was at home all night at the villa he shares with his elderly mother in Praia da Luz, near the Mark Warner holiday complex.

A friend of Kate and her husband Gerry said: "Kate has always felt there are questions concerning Murat and a body of evidence contrary to what he is saying.

"Gerry doesn't know whether he is involved but Kate has always been suspicious."

Mrs McCann, 39, has avoided publicly voicing suspicions about Mr Murat.

She and Gerry, also 39, even called for calm after he was made an official suspect on May 14 and appealed for him to be treated fairly.

Mr Murat, a property consultant, insists he did not learn about Madeleine's disappearance until the next morning and was not aware of the massive search going on less than 100 yards from his villa, Casa Liliana.

But a source close to Mrs McCann said: "We now have a number of people who have come forward quite independently of us and volunteered information directly in contradiction to what he has said."

Three friends of the McCanns, Rachael Oldfield, Fiona Payne and Russell O'Brien, told police in July that they saw Mr Murat near the Ocean Club holiday complex while they were searching for Madeleine.

They are said to have given statements to Portuguese police saying he introduced himself to them and said: "I am Robert. Can I help in the search?"

Charlotte Pennington, 20, a nanny at the Mark Warner complex, has said she saw Mr Murat on May 4, when he was working as a police translator, and recognised him as a man she had seen near the Ocean Club at midnight.

The Mail told yesterday how holidaymaker Jayne Jensen, 54, also recognised the 34-year-old as a man she saw smoking a cigarette on the street corner opposite the McCanns' apartment

An unnamed British barrister who was on holiday in Praia da Luz at the time is understood to have corroborated what Mrs Jensen said, but not made a formal statement. 

[color:28a1=000000]Two other tourists also called the hotline operated by the McCanns' private detective agency, Metodo 3, to report similar sightings.




[color:28a1=000000]http://www.mccannfiles.com/id218.html

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