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TRIAL DATE McCanns v Bennett 9 & 10 May 2012 - Page 2 Mm11

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TRIAL DATE McCanns v Bennett 9 & 10 May 2012

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Post by Liz Eagles on 28.02.12 14:22

@rainbow-fairy wrote:Whichever way I read this it seems to be very good news for Tony.
I'm sure the Judge will infer what we do from the McCanns withdrawing that charge. They seem to be running scared... scared of what will be revealed should they push ahead?
Greed and stubbornness is going to be their downfall, IMO.
As for the egregious Mr Gunnill, how I wouldve loved to have seen his face when he realised Tony had been given leave to apply to have him called as a witness!
I sincerely doubt that, whilst he was crowing over his 'victory' over Tony that it ever entered his head that it could end in the courtroom - he must be fuming - but what can he do? Nothing. Which is no more than the little weasel deserves IMO.
Have the McCanns and CR finally pushed their luck too far?

Money talks many different languages to many different people. Ego and power when mixed with money is toxic.
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Post by aiyoyo on 28.02.12 14:39

aquila wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Whichever way I read this it seems to be very good news for Tony.
I'm sure the Judge will infer what we do from the McCanns withdrawing that charge. They seem to be running scared... scared of what will be revealed should they push ahead?
Greed and stubbornness is going to be their downfall, IMO.
As for the egregious Mr Gunnill, how I wouldve loved to have seen his face when he realised Tony had been given leave to apply to have him called as a witness!
I sincerely doubt that, whilst he was crowing over his 'victory' over Tony that it ever entered his head that it could end in the courtroom - he must be fuming - but what can he do? Nothing. Which is no more than the little weasel deserves IMO.
Have the McCanns and CR finally pushed their luck too far?

Money talks many different languages to many different people. Ego and power when mixed with money is toxic.

Money, ego, and power are all very well and can be mighty if under the control of ONE person, or limited to corruptible handful of croonies. Unless one has total control, then money can be bloody useless against Justice because at the end of the day the Truth will prevail.
It's only when ego and power are corruptible by money that men's evil nature manifests.
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Post by Liz Eagles on 28.02.12 14:56

@aiyoyo wrote:
aquila wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Whichever way I read this it seems to be very good news for Tony.
I'm sure the Judge will infer what we do from the McCanns withdrawing that charge. They seem to be running scared... scared of what will be revealed should they push ahead?
Greed and stubbornness is going to be their downfall, IMO.
As for the egregious Mr Gunnill, how I wouldve loved to have seen his face when he realised Tony had been given leave to apply to have him called as a witness!
I sincerely doubt that, whilst he was crowing over his 'victory' over Tony that it ever entered his head that it could end in the courtroom - he must be fuming - but what can he do? Nothing. Which is no more than the little weasel deserves IMO.
Have the McCanns and CR finally pushed their luck too far?

Money talks many different languages to many different people. Ego and power when mixed with money is toxic.

Money, ego, and power are all very well and can be mighty if under the control of ONE person, or limited to corruptible handful of croonies. Unless one has total control, then money can be bloody useless against Justice because at the end of the day the Truth will prevail.
It's only when ego and power are corruptible by money that men's evil nature manifests.

Hi Aiyoyo

Firstly, I have no faith in the law. It lacks credibility. The civil courts on top of the law IMO are full of people paying legal people to manipulate the law. Once again the law lacks credibility to me. Secondly, the law IMO is a law unto itself.

The enormous salaries earned by lawyers are imo (just my opinion here) absolutely disgraceful.

The bullying of people by the law because they can't afford legal people is another absolute disgrace.

I'll get to the point. We have faith in the law as ordinary people because we rarely need it. We have this almost sublime belief that the law is on our side. It is not.

The law imo does not protect people. It's not a simple thing and has nothing other than ego to hold it up. If you were in trouble and you had to choose a law person where would you go?
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Post by zodiac on 28.02.12 21:26

It is good to know that the intention to call this person as a witness is still there.

I hope commonsense prevails. Once again I wish Tony, good luck.



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Post by Angelique on 29.02.12 0:28

littlepixie wrote:

I know little about the law but have had experience of a "Trier" A very wealthy lottery winner who tried to take me for thousands of pounds compensation on very shaky legal grounds in a made-up case to suit his agenda just because he could. He knew that financially he could crush me so I found out all I could regarding what could be taken from me in the event that I lost.
I am not saying this is the same as what TB is facing as it is not.
In my case he couldn't touch my house but he could touch my savings which could have had a knock on effect if I had relied on them to pay my mortgage. He couldn't touch money I earned that payed for essential living expenses much as in the same way that anyone who has ever had to take out an IVA or had a financial judgement against them has their essential living expenses calculated and protected by the Court. I was quite surprised at what are considered essential living expenses to be honest.

My case never went to Court as Mr Lottery bottled out.

I am thinking of you Tony as I know how worrying it can be to be in that position. The Truth will triumph as it did in my case.


Many thanks for your post - I must admit it has eased my mind and hopefully TB's too!

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Post by aiyoyo on 29.02.12 2:06

aquila wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:
aquila wrote:
@rainbow-fairy wrote:Whichever way I read this it seems to be very good news for Tony.
I'm sure the Judge will infer what we do from the McCanns withdrawing that charge. They seem to be running scared... scared of what will be revealed should they push ahead?
Greed and stubbornness is going to be their downfall, IMO.
As for the egregious Mr Gunnill, how I wouldve loved to have seen his face when he realised Tony had been given leave to apply to have him called as a witness!
I sincerely doubt that, whilst he was crowing over his 'victory' over Tony that it ever entered his head that it could end in the courtroom - he must be fuming - but what can he do? Nothing. Which is no more than the little weasel deserves IMO.
Have the McCanns and CR finally pushed their luck too far?

Money talks many different languages to many different people. Ego and power when mixed with money is toxic.

Money, ego, and power are all very well and can be mighty if under the control of ONE person, or limited to corruptible handful of croonies. Unless one has total control, then money can be bloody useless against Justice because at the end of the day the Truth will prevail.
It's only when ego and power are corruptible by money that men's evil nature manifests.

Hi Aiyoyo

Firstly, I have no faith in the law. It lacks credibility. The civil courts on top of the law IMO are full of people paying legal people to manipulate the law. Once again the law lacks credibility to me. Secondly, the law IMO is a law unto itself.

The enormous salaries earned by lawyers are imo (just my opinion here) absolutely disgraceful.

The bullying of people by the law because they can't afford legal people is another absolute disgrace.

I'll get to the point. We have faith in the law as ordinary people because we rarely need it. We have this almost sublime belief that the law is on our side. It is not.

The law imo does not protect people. It's not a simple thing and has nothing other than ego to hold it up. If you were in trouble and you had to choose a law person where would you go?

You are right. The law is an arse and is never on our side. Justice does not always prevail but the Truth does.

I believe it will come a day when the mccanns will regret what they did to Amaral, TB, Pat Brown and people they victimized.
The law is a double edge sword, when they get the other side of the blade, all the money they amassed whether legally or illegally is going to be bloody pointless for them. In fact, money that is their strength now will also be their downfall. Imagine when their fraud fund is exposed!

Power in office/position can be stripped, what more delusionary power they think they have just because they have ill gotten money.

My view is had they taken small mercy when the case was shelved and their arguido lifted they should have taken their luck and money and walk into the sunset in silence. But when they menacingly tackle everyone who dares have a voice about their theory using ill gotten fund, they are inviting trouble.





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Post by HiDeHo on 29.02.12 3:26

"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, the truth is the truth even if no one believes it."
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Post by Liz Eagles on 29.02.12 4:03

@HiDeHo wrote:"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, the truth is the truth even if no one believes it."

That is a really good quote and underpins this forum HiDeHo in the search for the truth for one little girl called Madeleine.

Sadly, I think the law is full of greedy, egotistical people who perhaps went into it for the right reasons (that is debatable). If you look at civil cases the best option is to choose the biggest ego firm with the highest billing unless of course you can't afford that (if you're a McCann that's not a problem so it would seem imo) - the bullies with the portfolio to prove their 'success'. The law IMO (and sadly) is an industry just like a burger chain is an industry. You can tart up a burger, tell people it's made of organic beef, open up a posh restaurant, make it appealing to those with money to have a 'chav' dinner and charge them huge amounts of money for a burger. Those with money will indulge themselves and patronise your business - and think nothing of the cost.

The law is no different imo. The richer you are the more law you can buy.

Those scales of justice really need to be calibrated.
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Post by gypsypeg on 21.04.12 22:53

@poppyprefect wrote:Hi, Tony

I read on another site that you don’t want banners and placards outside your court venue. May I ask why not?

I can fully understand why Tony wouldn't want banners and placards outisde the court. And the idea of chaining yourself to the railings when the case being heard is a contempt of court case as this I think is might lead to others being dragged inside for contempt of court. I think I detect you are having a laugh but please be serious as this is a very worrying time for those involved. Tony could after all find himself being sent to prison as he reminded us all recently. And I doubt any of us would want that to happen.

My prediction is that anybody foolish enough to chain themselves to railings will get not only themselves but Tony as well into trouble.
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Post by gypsypeg on 21.04.12 23:01

@HiDeHo wrote:"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, the truth is the truth even if no one believes it."

Actually I don't think this is perfectly true. When something is actually false but is believed by everyone it isn't a lie. It is a misconception. The word lie implies dishonesty to a greater or lesser extent. When no dishonesty is intended clearly the statement would still not be true but it would not really be a lie.
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Post by poppyprefect on 21.04.12 23:09

Gypsypeg, I know you are being cautious, perhaps over-cautious, but where in the statute books does it state that chaining oneself to the railings is a contempt of court offence? Yes, the original contempt issue is a serious matter for Tony.... but where are the records of other people who have been found guilty of contempt of court who have landed in prison for any length of time, ie. more than a couple of days?
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Post by gypsypeg on 22.04.12 0:51

@poppyprefect wrote:Gypsypeg, I know you are being cautious, perhaps over-cautious, but where in the statute books does it state that chaining oneself to the railings is a contempt of court offence? Yes, the original contempt issue is a serious matter for Tony.... but where are the records of other people who have been found guilty of contempt of court who have landed in prison for any length of time, ie. more than a couple of days?

I believe that contempt of court is open to the judgement of the presiding judge in a particular case. If he or she deems such an action to be contempt then lo and behold it is. Perhaps my summary there is a little simplistic but thats basically the truth of the matter.

I didn't say that he could be sent to prison. Tony, has repeatedly told us thats the case. Only fair to remind those who wish to take part that there could be consequences.
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Post by russiandoll on 22.04.12 19:25

defintions for you gypsypeg

lie
1    [lahy] Show IPA noun, verb, lied, ly·ing.
noun
1.
a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
2.
something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
3.
an inaccurate or false statement.
4.
the charge or accusation of lying: He flung the lie back at his accusers.
verb (used without object)
5.
to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.
6.
to express what is false; convey a false impression.

misconception - an incorrect conception
idea, thought - the content of cognition; the main thing you are thinking about; "it was not a good idea"; "the thought never entered my mind"
fallacy, false belief - a misconception resulting from incorrect reasoning
erroneous belief, error - a misconception resulting from incorrect information
self-deceit, self-deception - a misconception that is favorable to the person who holds it
misapprehension, mistake, misunderstanding - an understanding of something that is not correct; "he wasn't going to admit his mistake"; "make no mistake about his intentions"; "there must be some misunderstanding--I don't have a sister"
fancy, phantasy, illusion, fantasy - something many people believe that is false; "they have the illusion that I am very wealthy"
delusion, hallucination - a mistaken or unfounded opinion or idea; "he has delusions of competence"; "his dreams of vast wealth are a hallucination"
mirage - something illusory and unattainable
unsoundness - a misconception that is fallacious and not true or valid; "the unsoundness of his conclusion was obvious"
concept, conception, construct - an abstract or general idea inferred or derived from specific instances

so I must disagree with your disagreement with the previous poster you replied to and say that was an accurate statement.

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Post by tigger on 22.04.12 19:38

@gypsypeg wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, the truth is the truth even if no one believes it."

Actually I don't think this is perfectly true. When something is actually false but is believed by everyone it isn't a lie. It is a misconception. The word lie implies dishonesty to a greater or lesser extent. When no dishonesty is intended clearly the statement would still not be true but it would not really be a lie.

You are saying that a lie is no longer a lie if everybody believes it. It's a misconception.
In fact the people who believe the lie (to be the truth) are in error, they are not liars themselves , but the lie remains a lie, it cannot be either the truth or a misconception, simply because everybody believes it.

A short course in logic might be in order.

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Post by russiandoll on 22.04.12 21:50

more succinctly put than my post, thank you Tigger, but after gypsypeg not understanding the meaning of the adjective hysterical, as shown on another thread... I thought maybe a quick revision of English was advisable.
oh yes, and logic.

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~John F. Kennedy

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Post by aiyoyo on 23.04.12 9:29

@gypsypeg wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, the truth is the truth even if no one believes it."

Actually I don't think this is perfectly true. When something is actually false but is believed by everyone it isn't a lie. It is a misconception. The word lie implies dishonesty to a greater or lesser extent. When no dishonesty is intended clearly the statement would still not be true but it would not really be a lie.
[/quote]

So according to you "Maddie is dead" is a "misconception" then...hey?

Yes, lying is dishonesty!! So, if her parents are dishonest - proven by their lies - is her dead still a misconception or not?

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Post by russiandoll on 23.04.12 9:54

to be fair to gypsypeg, let's keep this as a generalisation, as per the statement as gypsypeg referred to that statement and did not specify any particular truth or lie.
the truth and the lie are unchangeable, regardless of any inferences made about a true or dishonest statement made. Whatever incorrect inferences or misconceptions occur after the statement has been made and digested, and processed in the mind of the listener, does not alter the fact that the statement was either the truth or a lie, fact or fiction.
logic.
lets not get distracted by anymore of gypsypeg's posts is my suggestion, those I have read have imo been made with the aim of taking discussions off track by being rude or disingenuous.

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~John F. Kennedy

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Post by Ribisl on 23.04.12 9:59

@aiyoyo wrote:
@gypsypeg wrote:
@HiDeHo wrote:"A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it, the truth is the truth even if no one believes it."

Actually I don't think this is perfectly true. When something is actually false but is believed by everyone it isn't a lie. It is a misconception. The word lie implies dishonesty to a greater or lesser extent. When no dishonesty is intended clearly the statement would still not be true but it would not really be a lie.

So according to you "Maddie is dead" is a "misconception" then...hey?

Yes, lying is dishonesty!! So, if her parents are dishonest - proven by their lies - is her dead still a misconception or not?
[/quote]

You are being totally illogical, gypsypeg, or deliberately abstruse.
There are many people who believe in the abduction story spanned by the McCanns and you can say they are under misconception. However if you study all the evidence available they largely contradict rather than support their story. It therefore implies that the McCanns themselves are probably claiming something knowing it to be false ie they are lying, and the public are led to believe in their lie.

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Post by aiyoyo on 23.04.12 11:08

@russiandoll wrote: to be fair to gypsypeg, let's keep this as a generalisation, as per the statement as gypsypeg referred to that statement and did not specify any particular truth or lie.
the truth and the lie are unchangeable, regardless of any inferences made about a true or dishonest statement made. Whatever incorrect inferences or misconceptions occur after the statement has been made and digested, and processed in the mind of the listener, does not alter the fact that the statement was either the truth or a lie, fact or fiction.
logic.
lets not get distracted by anymore of gypsypeg's posts is my suggestion, those I have read have imo been made with the aim of taking discussions off track by being rude or disingenuous.

Well, to be fair "russiandoll" we are on the complete mystery of Madeleine Mccann forum, and the discussion here in this particular thread is about mccanns litigations against people who didn't believe them. So I believe Gypsypeg was refering to the mccanns when s/he talks about the definition of lie which s/he got mixed up with "misconception".

So I think it's fair that people see it in the context to mccanns.
I dont see any rude or disingenuous posts unless you care to point them out, else with no disrespect, you are just stirring up!
I notice you seem to have flair up quite a few times lately... ...maybe its you who need to calm down.

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Post by tigger on 23.04.12 14:11

@aiyoyo wrote:
@russiandoll wrote: to be fair to gypsypeg, let's keep this as a generalisation, as per the statement as gypsypeg referred to that statement and did not specify any particular truth or lie.
the truth and the lie are unchangeable, regardless of any inferences made about a true or dishonest statement made. Whatever incorrect inferences or misconceptions occur after the statement has been made and digested, and processed in the mind of the listener, does not alter the fact that the statement was either the truth or a lie, fact or fiction.
logic.
lets not get distracted by anymore of gypsypeg's posts is my suggestion, those I have read have imo been made with the aim of taking discussions off track by being rude or disingenuous.

Well, to be fair "russiandoll" we are on the complete mystery of Madeleine Mccann forum, and the discussion here in this particular thread is about mccanns litigations against people who didn't believe them. So I believe Gypsypeg was refering to the mccanns when s/he talks about the definition of lie which s/he got mixed up with "misconception".

So I think it's fair that people see it in the context to mccanns.
I dont see any rude or disingenuous posts unless you care to point them out, else with no disrespect, you are just stirring up!
I notice you seem to have flair up quite a few times lately... ...maybe its you who need to calm down.


Whoa Aiyoyo, gypsypeg said my reaction was hysterical - after the next one I was silly, the following one he/she complained about my grating demands for apologies.... No Christmas pressies from me Gipsypeg, gone right off you.

I didn't get a reply to the one about a lie not being a lie if somebody else believes it. A whole new concept.

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Post by russiandoll on 23.04.12 14:42

last post on this thread so will quote you aiyoyo and explain myself. I am quite calm.
Gypsypeg spent a lot of time yesterday being rude esp to Tigger, on another thread. The posts caused a distraction, why I stated in my previous post that my advice was to ignore Gypsypeg, who was imo being rude, disingenuous and causing a distraction.
My posting a generalisation was in no way being critical of you, I simpy posted this way as Hi de Ho posted a well known statement contrasting truth and dishonesty, so I answered gypsypeg in the same way. Hi de Ho's post prompted a general not specific post from gypsypeg, so while you were specific in your relating that to this case, I was not, but we both said the same thing ! Gypsypeg was illogical, we can both agree there I think.
I do not know why you accuse me of stirring things up, I am imo entitled to give an opinion when I think a poster is being unfair and rude and making mischief, as I believe Gypsypeg was yesterday. Maybe Tigger can remember exactly where, and direct you there, once you read what was written I think you might agree we should be ignoring Gypsypeg if any more of that nonsense is posted.
Hope I cleared up a few things.

smilie








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contrived and dishonest — but the myth — persistent, persuasive and
unrealistic.
~John F. Kennedy

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Post by Liz Eagles on 23.04.12 15:53

@russiandoll wrote:last post on this thread so will quote you aiyoyo and explain myself. I am quite calm.
Gypsypeg spent a lot of time yesterday being rude esp to Tigger, on another thread. The posts caused a distraction, why I stated in my previous post that my advice was to ignore Gypsypeg, who was imo being rude, disingenuous and causing a distraction.
My posting a generalisation was in no way being critical of you, I simpy posted this way as Hi de Ho posted a well known statement contrasting truth and dishonesty, so I answered gypsypeg in the same way. Hi de Ho's post prompted a general not specific post from gypsypeg, so while you were specific in your relating that to this case, I was not, but we both said the same thing ! Gypsypeg was illogical, we can both agree there I think.
I do not know why you accuse me of stirring things up, I am imo entitled to give an opinion when I think a poster is being unfair and rude and making mischief, as I believe Gypsypeg was yesterday. Maybe Tigger can remember exactly where, and direct you there, once you read what was written I think you might agree we should be ignoring Gypsypeg if any more of that nonsense is posted.
Hope I cleared up a few things.

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TRIAL DATE McCanns v Bennett 9 & 10 May 2012 - Page 2 Empty Re: TRIAL DATE McCanns v Bennett 9 & 10 May 2012

Post by aiyoyo on 23.04.12 16:13

Tigger and russiandoll,

Oh dearie me, have I been arguing this from the wrong end of the stick?

Of course I notice someone had been extremely rude to Tigger, and I had the impression it was you, russiandoll - if it wasnt you, my unreserved apologies russiandoll.

Yes, I notice Gypsypeg is barking like frog who is disingenuous and who hasnt a clue about "adjective" and "verb". daft
It's at par with gerry's "purport" so maybe gypsypeg was schooled under gerry.

It's hysterically funny that s/he (gyspypeg) thinks that a lie taken in by people becomes a "misconception"? aaagh bigshock
I wonder whether s/he will understand the definition of "liar" and "deceive"? because that goes hand in hand, and we know "a pair of doctors" who are infamous for that don't we? violin

I dont think gypsypeg knows the definition of "apology" either scratchhead
aiyoyo
aiyoyo

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TRIAL DATE McCanns v Bennett 9 & 10 May 2012 - Page 2 Empty Re: TRIAL DATE McCanns v Bennett 9 & 10 May 2012

Post by Guest on 23.04.12 16:17

For a "newbie" gypsypeg certainly has a strange way of endearing herself with our members. I am watching.
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TRIAL DATE McCanns v Bennett 9 & 10 May 2012 - Page 2 Empty Re: TRIAL DATE McCanns v Bennett 9 & 10 May 2012

Post by Guest on 23.04.12 16:20

candyfloss wrote:For a "newbie" gypsypeg certainly has a strange way of endearing herself with our members. I am watching.

No need...she's left the building. thumbsup
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