IVF - The Pope Speaks

Ashwarya wrote:One thing I find particularly unbelievable is that a cradle Catholic, however lapsed, would not know that any woman expecting to meet the Pope should wear some form of head covering, usually a black mantilla for a married woman. The Pope would not take offence if someone genuinely didn't know, but how could KM not know that? To be fair, though, I don't think she was wearing a rosary round her neck at the time, but Cuddlecat was very regularly seen wearing one in his many appearances - not very appropriate, in my opinion.

It seems to me a 'devout' catholic would never commit such a faux-pas.
This is part of the reason why all their marks of religious fervour seemed so fake to me, just a way of making themselves look more respectable and gaining sympathy from the public.

Zelina wrote:

Ashwarya wrote:One thing I find particularly unbelievable is that a cradle Catholic, however lapsed, would not know that any woman expecting to meet the Pope should wear some form of head covering, usually a black mantilla for a married woman. The Pope would not take offence if someone genuinely didn't know, but how could KM not know that? To be fair, though, I don't think she was wearing a rosary round her neck at the time, but Cuddlecat was very regularly seen wearing one in his many appearances - not very appropriate, in my opinion.

It seems to me a 'devout' catholic would never commit such a faux-pas.
This is part of the reason why all their marks of religious fervour seemed so fake to me, just a way of making themselves look more respectable and gaining sympathy from the public.

I have a devout catholic in my family who has been trying to get pregnant for a long time. I'm not a catholic. I asked her if she would consider IVF. She said NO it's against my faith.

Maybe we will get an explanation for this lapse of judgement in the next edition of the bewk. Maybe something like "The Holy Father felt very honoured that we went to the trouble of visiting him at such a difficult time in our lives, and he particularly said not to worry about observing the usual respectfulness towards him if we didn't have a mantilla handy".

I think that's the whole problem with religion, it has never really solved any of humanities problems, and is just another form of control in a different guise. And how many people have died in the name of religion? Religion has always been a scource of Conflict, it has never brought about peace on earth, and it never will, and that is a Fact.

And as soon as someone tries to insert themselves and their will upon others, of course that is bound to cause problems, so IVF or not, let the couples decide, because it is no one else's decision, as is birth control. Let what happens in the privacy of our bedrooms remain just that, Private! It isn't up to a pope or politician or anyone else to make those calls.

We should though be concerned with over population, there will eventually be too many people to be able to be supported on the planet, so we need to think about that for the future generations. We already see certain things like not enough jobs to go around, and that equates to people not being able to support their lives. And it won't get any better as each generation is ready to go into the workforce.

As human beings, and free thinking adults, surely we can let our own hearts guide us as to what we feel is right for us or wrong for us. But that's the trouble, not too many adults are free thinkers, and we always think that someone should lead us around and tell us what to do and how to be. Those people are no different than any of us, the so called leaders, they are just as confused as the next person, because we are after all embodiments of the same "human" consciousness. And how can these religious people ever know the "unknown", if you call God or what you will, the "unknown", then you can't know that, it contadicts itself, as does Religion. JMO though.

Joss wrote:I think that's the whole problem with religion, it has never really solved any of humanities problems, and is just another form of control in a different guise. And how many people have died in the name of religion? Religion has always been a scource of Conflict, it has never brought about peace on earth, and it never will, and that is a Fact.

And as soon as someone tries to insert themselves and their will upon others, of course that is bound to cause problems, so IVF or not, let the couples decide, because it is no one else's decision, as is birth control. Let what happens in the privacy of our bedrooms remain just that, Private! It isn't up to a pope or politician or anyone else to make those calls.

We should though be concerned with over population, there will eventually be too many people to be able to be supported on the planet, so we need to think about that for the future generations. We already see certain things like not enough jobs to go around, and that equates to people not being able to support their lives. And it won't get any better as each generation is ready to go into the workforce.

As human beings, and free thinking adults, surely we can let our own hearts guide us as to what we feel is right for us or wrong for us. But that's the trouble, not too many adults are free thinkers, and we always think that someone should lead us around and tell us what to do and how to be. Those people are no different than any of us, the so called leaders, they are just as confused as the next person, because we are after all embodiments of the same "human" consciousness. And how can these religious people ever know the "unknown", if you call God or what you will, the "unknown", then you can't know that, it contadicts itself, as does Religion. JMO though.

Wars are not about religion. Wars are about greed. Always have been.

aquila wrote:

Joss wrote:I think that's the whole problem with religion, it has never really solved any of humanities problems, and is just another form of control in a different guise. And how many people have died in the name of religion? Religion has always been a scource of Conflict, it has never brought about peace on earth, and it never will, and that is a Fact.

And as soon as someone tries to insert themselves and their will upon others, of course that is bound to cause problems, so IVF or not, let the couples decide, because it is no one else's decision, as is birth control. Let what happens in the privacy of our bedrooms remain just that, Private! It isn't up to a pope or politician or anyone else to make those calls.

We should though be concerned with over population, there will eventually be too many people to be able to be supported on the planet, so we need to think about that for the future generations. We already see certain things like not enough jobs to go around, and that equates to people not being able to support their lives. And it won't get any better as each generation is ready to go into the workforce.

As human beings, and free thinking adults, surely we can let our own hearts guide us as to what we feel is right for us or wrong for us. But that's the trouble, not too many adults are free thinkers, and we always think that someone should lead us around and tell us what to do and how to be. Those people are no different than any of us, the so called leaders, they are just as confused as the next person, because we are after all embodiments of the same "human" consciousness. And how can these religious people ever know the "unknown", if you call God or what you will, the "unknown", then you can't know that, it contadicts itself, as does Religion. JMO though.

Wars are not about religion. Wars are about greed. Always have been.

With due respect, Wars are about resources, and political agendas, blessed by the church, for those that take part. And war is also about inner conflict projected outwardly. If human beings really grasped the concept of "Loving one another", we would never be a part of this agenda of mass organised slaughter called war, so IMO it is a bit more than greed involved. War has never brought about peace either, as we see throughout history, and war is still ongoing today. So what has this hatred of other human beings taught us? That its ok. to kill, because we are egotistical? There are problems of our Conditioning involved also, worship of a rag we call a flag, the separation and division of human beings into geographic location and culture etc. But as i said this is just all my opinion, and i also respect yours.

aquila wrote:

Joss wrote:I think that's the whole problem with religion, it has never really solved any of humanities problems, and is just another form of control in a different guise. And how many people have died in the name of religion? Religion has always been a scource of Conflict, it has never brought about peace on earth, and it never will, and that is a Fact.

And as soon as someone tries to insert themselves and their will upon others, of course that is bound to cause problems, so IVF or not, let the couples decide, because it is no one else's decision, as is birth control. Let what happens in the privacy of our bedrooms remain just that, Private! It isn't up to a pope or politician or anyone else to make those calls.

We should though be concerned with over population, there will eventually be too many people to be able to be supported on the planet, so we need to think about that for the future generations. We already see certain things like not enough jobs to go around, and that equates to people not being able to support their lives. And it won't get any better as each generation is ready to go into the workforce.

As human beings, and free thinking adults, surely we can let our own hearts guide us as to what we feel is right for us or wrong for us. But that's the trouble, not too many adults are free thinkers, and we always think that someone should lead us around and tell us what to do and how to be. Those people are no different than any of us, the so called leaders, they are just as confused as the next person, because we are after all embodiments of the same "human" consciousness. And how can these religious people ever know the "unknown", if you call God or what you will, the "unknown", then you can't know that, it contadicts itself, as does Religion. JMO though.

Wars are not about religion. Wars are about greed. Always have been.

Religion = greed

Portia, Yes you are right, Religion does = Greed. Isn't the Roman Catholic church one of the wealthiest organisations in the world? So they are also on their agenda. Do they actually help the poor and needy in this life, i don't know. It seems to me that the whole world revolves on the "love of money", not the love of the Spirit.

Joss wrote:Portia, Yes you are right, Religion does = Greed. Isn't the Roman Catholic church one of the wealthiest organisations in the world? So they are also on their agenda. Do they actually help the poor and needy in this life, i don't know. It seems to me that the whole world revolves on the "love of money", not the love of the Spirit.

Thank you very much, Joss,

I had the privilege of being tutored by a Fransiscan monk for zeven years.

One of his maxims was: "Take care, all things divine are being adminstered here on earth by us, mere mortals".

He died, I died.

Perhaps then in light of all this, it is fitting that the Mccanns are involved with the Catholic Church. I find it incredulous that a couple of doctors, after their child goes missing, due to their own neglect, are receiving the attention of so many so called prominent figures, after the fact. Could this be to somehow promote Catholicism, in the fact that people have seen this religion for what it is, especially with all the scandals of paedophilia the church has been involved in? Could it somehow be reinventing itself through the McCanns, by them seeking some kind of absolution for their own sins, in front of the world through the media?

They will realise in due course that what happened to Madeline, and if they are involved in her probable demise etc. that no member of any church priest or pope will ever clear their conscience. That will only happen when they start being really truthful, and to stop their spin of lies, and trying to discredit others who have tried to find some kind of Justice for an innocent child that should have been better protected by her parents.

Portia wrote:

Joss wrote:Portia, Yes you are right, Religion does = Greed. Isn't the Roman Catholic church one of the wealthiest organisations in the world? So they are also on their agenda. Do they actually help the poor and needy in this life, i don't know. It seems to me that the whole world revolves on the "love of money", not the love of the Spirit.

Thank you very much, Joss,

I had the privilege of being tutored by a Fransiscan monk for zeven years.

One of his maxims was: "Take care, all things divine are being adminstered here on earth by us, mere mortals".

He died, I died.

Portia, LOL:lol!: