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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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The Slumber Club

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The Slumber Club Empty The Slumber Club

Post by Guest 22.02.12 9:53

The Slumber Club Jammas

Outros Apensos 8 Vol 3 page 576 http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/OA3_8/03_volume_III_o_apenso_VIII_Page_576.jpg


Many greyscale photographs have been released in the files and it is unclear who was responsible for taking this one.

Looking at the size of this child, it would appear to be either Madeleine or Tanner’s oldest daughter. It could also be the Sub of course? Wearing what looks like a pyjama top and going into an apartment. Some say it was a rain coat, but by pure definition, it should therefore be full coat length, not jacket length. To me, it looks like a pyjama top and has been provisionally labelled by albym in the PJFiles as a possible pyjama top?

Why would you want to take a photograph of a child entering an apartment? It’s hardly picturesque. Or was it supposed to be a reminder one day, of where she went to visit?

Compared to the photo we have with the tennis balls, this child looks a bit smaller than Madeleine.

One question we have to ask ourselves is. Is this a photo of a child about to enter the night-time Slumber Club?

From Fiona Payne’s 4th May statement:

“During dinner, amongst other friends present was the McCann couple - Madeleine's parents. When questioned she says that she did not go to the club, neither did her husband, to check on the children as she possessed a baby monitor, as previously mentioned. However, she states that Gerald and Kate went with regularity, as did the other couples to ensure that their children were well”.



Even if this photo does not prove that a child was going somewhere for a sleepover. It does prove that they were visiting another apartment somewhere within the OC complex. If you look at all the ground-floor apartments, all the skirting-tiles are vertical. All of the upper floor skirting-tiles are horizontal. Which means that this little girl was about to enter an upper floor apartment and we know it was not G5H, the Payne's apartment.
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Post by Guest 22.02.12 9:55

The Slumber Club G5H

This is the front door of the Payne apartment G5H. We have never seen this photo before until recently.

As you can see, it is nothing like the entrance seen in the greyscale photo.

It has a low level wall on the right and there is no space on the left.

In fact, the entire approach up to that doorway is very narrow indeed, whereas the approach in the greyscale photo, seems very spacious. I wonder if this means it is an apartment on a top floor somewhere. The higher up the apartment, the more spacious they become.
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Post by Guest 22.02.12 11:56

Silvia Isabel Cunha Azevedo Cravinho - Occupation: Laundry Worker

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/SILVIA_CRAVINHO.htm

“After the girl's disappearance, she is not sure but believes it was last Saturday, 5th May she received a bag of clothes from MW employees and was told expressly that these were clothes from Madeleine's family. It included adult clothes (men's and women's clothing as well as children's clothing of different sizes, making it logical to presume that it included the girl's clothes given that her younger siblings are twins.

When asked whether she remembers which items of clothing she received that could belong to Madeleine, she says a pink coloured skirt with two layers, one of them having a checked pattern. She remembers that there was nothing abnormal about this piece of clothing or the others, such as blood stains, tears or any other kind of damage”.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 9:58

Charlotte & James Gorrod, friends of Tanner & O'Brien were staying in C5C.

C5C is an area up by the Millennium restaurant, the second set of tennis courts and swimming pool.

Is this little girl in the greyscale photo standing in the doorway of C5C? I doubt it somehow.

Other than them, no one in the group talks of 'other friends', or 'going roung to their place'.
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Post by uppatoffee 23.02.12 10:07

Stella, while the top does look quite like a pyjama top, I think it is more likely to be some kind of jacket. Looking at the rest of her clothing it looks like she is also wearing a summer hat, loosefitting skirt (although I couldn't make out two layers) and a pair of sandles. If she was going to a slumber club, she would need to be in her pyjamas already.

It's a shame these black and white copies are so dark. If only someone had adjusted the darkness settings when copying them!
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 10:16

The Slumber Club Image004

In this photo, the flower on the RH side of Ameleie's hat, is very similar or identical to a flower design seen on the greyscale hat.

It might explain why she appears smaller than Madeleine and the clothes far too big.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 10:23

uppatoffee wrote:Stella, while the top does look quite like a pyjama top, I think it is more likely to be some kind of jacket. Looking at the rest of her clothing it looks like she is also wearing a summer hat, loosefitting skirt (although I couldn't make out two layers) and a pair of sandles. If she was going to a slumber club, she would need to be in her pyjamas already.

It's a shame these black and white copies are so dark. If only someone had adjusted the darkness settings when copying them!

I think it has been done deliberately by the PJ to obscure them, for their privacy.

I agree, it is a really bad picture to know what it is for sure. But if it was hot enough for a sun hat, would they also need such a big jacket? During the day the children were seen without jackets on, so I don't think that is a jacket.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 10:25

The biggest thing we can see from that photo is, that this apartment did not belong to any of the tapas group. So they must have known someone else out there.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 10:35

The Slumber Club G5A

G5A with vertical skirting tiles.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 10:36

The Slumber Club G5B

G5B with vertical skirting tiles.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 10:37

The Slumber Club G5C

G5C with vertical skirting tiles.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 10:38

The Slumber Club G5D

G5D with vertical skirting tiles.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 10:48

The Slumber Club G5J

This is G5J and more proof that upper floor apartments, have horizontal skirting tiles.

This is also the apartment that quite a few GNR tracking dogs went up to and was searched. As you can see, it is on the end of that block and no one would have needed to walk past it. The Slumber Club 302873
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Post by Nina 23.02.12 10:53

Good morning Stella. Could the photo have been taken on a terrace at the back of an apartment, overlooking the pool area? Re the skirting tiles.

Also the sun hat doesn't make me think daytime/sun. Children become very fond of some items of clothing, my daughter wore her first pair of wellingtons in bed even [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The jacket does look quite stiff so could be an outdoor jacket or a new pyjama top that has not been washed.

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Post by Guest 23.02.12 11:08

Nina wrote:Good morning Stella. Could the photo have been taken on a terrace at the back of an apartment, overlooking the pool area? Re the skirting tiles.

Also the sun hat doesn't make me think daytime/sun. Children become very fond of some items of clothing, my daughter wore her first pair of wellingtons in bed even The Slumber Club 847771

The jacket does look quite stiff so could be an outdoor jacket or a new pyjama top that has not been washed.

Good morning Nina.

I did think about that. But all the pictures I've seen of the patio areas facing the tapas and pool, all have full length sliding patio doors. So no, I don't think it is a rear area door.

The top looks oversized to me, the arms far too long. I think the hat is not important here.

If Madeleine left the scene early on in the week, maybe a later photoshoot for proof of life was needed. Perhaps the sub was overdressed to play the part. Did you notice they took two photo's. One with the left hand down, the other with it up.
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Post by Nina 23.02.12 11:13

Stella wrote:
Nina wrote:Good morning Stella. Could the photo have been taken on a terrace at the back of an apartment, overlooking the pool area? Re the skirting tiles.

Also the sun hat doesn't make me think daytime/sun. Children become very fond of some items of clothing, my daughter wore her first pair of wellingtons in bed even [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

The jacket does look quite stiff so could be an outdoor jacket or a new pyjama top that has not been washed.

Good morning Nina.

I did think about that. But all the pictures I've seen of the patio areas facing the tapas and pool, all have full length sliding patio doors. So no, I don't think it is a rear area door.

The top looks oversized to me, the arms far too long. I think the hat is not important here.

If Madeleine left the scene early on in the week, maybe a later photoshoot for proof of life was needed. Perhaps the sub was overdressed to play the part. Did you notice they took two photo's. One with the left hand down, the other with it up.

Yes I did notice that very Madeleine left hand to hair pose, seen photos of Madeleine doing that, so a good photo to remind the looker of that pose.

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The Slumber Club Empty A substitute Madeleine?

Post by Tony Bennett 23.02.12 11:19

Stella wrote:Looking at the size of this child, it would appear to be either Madeleine or Tanner’s oldest daughter. It could also be the Sub of course?
Stella - welcome back to the forum. You've referred to the possibility of a 'substitute Madeleine' being used. This is the view of yourself and kikoraton. It is not however a majority view on the forum and I'm not sure in fact who else apart from the two of you supports this hypothesis.

Could you please open a new thread here where you and/or kiko set out in concise terms your evidence for the 'substitute Madeleine' theory and in addition set out (a) whether you think the substitute Madeleine was already in place before the holiday or (b) they rapidly found a substitute Madeleine on discovering that Madeleine was dead - and if there was a substitute, who that substitute was or might have been?

Thanks

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Guest 23.02.12 11:34

Tony Bennett wrote:
Stella wrote:Looking at the size of this child, it would appear to be either Madeleine or Tanner’s oldest daughter. It could also be the Sub of course?
Stella - welcome back to the forum. You've referred to the possibility of a 'substitute Madeleine' being used. This is the view of yourself and kikoraton. It is not however a majority view on the forum and I'm not sure in fact who else apart from the two of you supports this hypothesis.

Could you please open a new thread here where you and/or kiko set out in concise terms your evidence for the 'substitute Madeleine' theory and in addition set out (a) whether you think the substitute Madeleine was already in place before the holiday or (b) they rapidly found a substitute Madeleine on discovering that Madeleine was dead - and if there was a substitute, who that substitute was or might have been?

Thanks

Funnily enough, I had intended to do just that Tony, but would like to finish finding material for this topic first.
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 12:09

Nina wrote:Yes I did notice that very Madeleine left hand to hair pose, seen photos of Madeleine doing that, so a good photo to remind the looker of that pose.

Yes, I noticed that too. I wonder if that was a special request for the second image?
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Post by uppatoffee 23.02.12 12:30

Stella - Were any records made available from the evening crèche at all?
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Post by Guest 23.02.12 12:41

uppatoffee wrote:Stella - Were any records made available from the evening crèche at all?

No, none. They only released some records of the facilities they actually used and because they claim to have never used the registered evening creche, they didn't bother releasing them.

I've just seen that the DC Police officer who examined the photographic evidence, only mentions seeing 43 photographs from the McCann's memory cards. I was trying to find out whose camera that photograph came from. The image just before it is listed on the PJFiles, as a shot of Fiona Payne and her baby on their balcony.
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Post by Genbug 23.02.12 16:45

Hi Stella, re the tops that the girls are wearing in the first two photographs, I am 99% convinced that they are short waterproof jackets as my grandaughter has one that looks exactly the same.
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Post by Guest 24.02.12 8:01

Genbug wrote:Hi Stella, re the tops that the girls are wearing in the first two photographs, I am 99% convinced that they are short waterproof jackets as my grandaughter has one that looks exactly the same.

Hi Genbug. Someone previously has also suggested that, but I just can't get my head round why you would want to keep your top half waterproof dry, letting you bottom half get wet. Especially in children. The other thing we need to consider is the reports that a lot of the adults did not take appropriate clothing, Kate especially. If they were expecting good weather, would someone really pack a waterproof for their daughter? I just don't know, it doesn't feel right.

Due to the limitations of that photograph, I guess we will never really know.
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Post by Genbug 24.02.12 8:34

Stella wrote:
Genbug wrote:Hi Stella, re the tops that the girls are wearing in the first two photographs, I am 99% convinced that they are short waterproof jackets as my grandaughter has one that looks exactly the same.

Hi Genbug. Someone previously has also suggested that, but I just can't get my head round why you would want to keep your top half waterproof dry, letting you bottom half get wet. Especially in children. The other thing we need to consider is the reports that a lot of the adults did not take appropriate clothing, Kate especially. If they were expecting good weather, would someone really pack a waterproof for their daughter? I just don't know, it doesn't feel right.

Due to the limitations of that photograph, I guess we will never really know.

Good morning Stella. It didn't necessarily have to be raining for the child to wear it, it may well have been the only jacket that they took for the children. I would do the same, if we were going on holiday and needed something to cover the kids if it was chilly, I would take a waterproof jacket so that they also had something to cover them when it was raining.

Have actually PMed you about it, but gather this forum can only be seen by invited people?? I have a photo of my then two year old grandaughter wearing what looks like the same waterproof jacket. It wasn't raining at the time, she was just wearing it to keep the sea chill off of her. It is very lightweight and ideal for a typical (British!) summer day. I do happen to know that that week was warmer in England than it was on the Iberian peninsular, because I was there and everyone at home kept texting me about the brilliant weather while I was freezing, LOL!
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Post by uppatoffee 24.02.12 8:56

I would second what Genbug said. A coat like that would reduce wind chill as well as be good for the rain. I would be unlikely to take waterproof trousers on holiday for my daughter, but I would take a jacket like that.
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