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What should have happened?

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What should have happened?

Post by tigger on 02.02.12 7:29

I thought, rather than battle with the overload of information given out, we could work out what should have happened. Here goes:

Fake or not: (whether it's true or not - the behaviour one expects)
Maddie is found to be missing:
Parents get friends and staff to search the OC, shouting her name - after all she is only minutes away according to them.
Within half an hour the police is called. The parents are now afraid she's been abducted. The parents are searching madly, keeping in touch by mobile phone. These are doctors, they could have thought to divide the search areas amongst themselves.
Mrs. Fenn and other neighbors are asked if someone has heard or seen anything.

Police arrive - description of the girl is given and by now someone has taken the last twenty or so family holiday photographs to the printer in OC. The best likeness on one of the many recent snaps is chosen and posted around PdL.

Very early in the morning of the 4th the family in the UK is phoned with the news, the Embassy is contacted - can they help?
A local doctor prescribes some tranquilizers for the mother, who falls asleep exhausted with the twins within reach. The friends get together and one offers to phone Sky news. A recent photograph of the child is emailed to Sky.
PJ advises parents not to involve press as experience has shown in kidnap cases that this almost certainly results in the death of the child. There is still time to ask Sky not to broadcast. This is done.

Following days: parents desperate with grief and guilt - if only we hadn't ...
etc. etc. At no time can I see why the PM has to step in.



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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Ross on 02.02.12 11:31

Another very significant aspect of the immediate aftermath was the overwhelming support of the Foreign Office, particularly the ambassador. Once his credentials have been accpted he is the direct representative of the sovereign, de facto honorary royalty and so his actions are tightly dictated to by that. In the early days, if we take things at face value, the FO would know that statistically in the large majority of child disappearances the parents are responsible, and there is simply no way that the ambassador would be sent to publicly support them unless the possibility of parental involvement in a crime had been definitively ruled out. They could not have possibly done this so early on because they simply wouldn't have been fully appraised of the case, so the fact that he was immediately there by their side tells us that something extraordinary was occurring.
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Guest on 02.02.12 13:58

......and that it probably happened many days before to have everyone in place on time.
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by kikoraton on 02.02.12 14:34

Once again, to my mind, the OC and its owners come under the microscope as being a fiefdom of the British Consulate.
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by tigger on 02.02.12 14:38

You got it Ross, the Ambassador who takes orders direct from the FO (I worked for an embassy) would not personally have intervened without orders. They were telling the right lies as early as 10 am on the 4th. (the right lies being that the PJ were doing nothing - the gospel according to TM).

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Ross on 02.02.12 14:42

Stella wrote:......and that it probably happened many days before to have everyone in place on time.

Quite. As though 10 pm on May 3rd was when the button was pushed and the prepared script began. But even with that line of thought there are problems, specifically why did they all immediately get together to scribble out their timelines for the evening? Surely that would have been prepared and learned beforehand?

It seems that everywhere you turn in this case every possible answer raises more questions.

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by tigger on 02.02.12 15:08

[quote="Ross"]
Stella wrote:......and that it probably happened many days before to have everyone in place on time.

Quite. As though 10 pm on May 3rd was when the button was pushed and the prepared script began. But even with that line of thought there are problems, specifically why did they all immediately get together to scribble out their timelines for the evening? Surely that would have been prepared and learned beforehand?

It seems that everywhere you turn in this case every possible answer raises more questions.[/quote)



A bunch of not very bright amateurs and a select few professional liars? Might that explain it?
The psychology of the McCanns is central to all the glaring mistakes, imo. A half bright child could have done better. Their superiority complex is amazing.

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Ross on 02.02.12 15:30

tigger wrote:
A bunch of not very bright amateurs and a select few professional liars? Might that explain it?
The psychology of the McCanns is central to all the glaring mistakes, imo. A half bright child could have done better. Their superiority complex is amazing.

Well maybe, but with such high level involvement would such amateurishness be so loudly broadcast? If the objective was to present a credible coherent false narrative why not leave it to the professional liars assigned to the case? Surely they would not want comments like "There is no evidence to implicate us in her death" being made because the implication of that statement is so clear.

I think we are being given the run-a-round here. We know, they know we know, but what exactly can we do about it?
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Guest on 02.02.12 15:35

If you choose the scenario of an accident to Madeleine and following such, the 'need' to get rid of the body, then the stickerbook timelines look pretty daft, I agree.
However, if it was meant to be an on-going show with a premium on every day, month and year it did last, it falls into place
IIRC Amaral wrote about his amazement that the English were obviously not in a hurry.
And yes the same Amaral overheard the consul/ambassador in a telephone conversation stating that nothing was being done.

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What should have been done.

Post by Guest on 02.02.12 15:41

Kate McCann should have urged the policeman driving the car to go as fast as he could.
When returning to the policestation once more because a CCTV showed a girl in a car that might be her missing daughter.
Instead of that she was annoyed about it.
I've wondered time and again about that.
(Was it the 'sub'? And would that footage have been preserved?)

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 02.02.12 16:06

Hmmm....what should have happened?

I suppose, what would have seemed more "normal" to me is something along these lines......

The alarm goes up that a child has gone missing. At first you would expect Kate and Gerry to have gone off on foot, both of them shouting Madeleines name trying to cover as wide an area as possible in as short a time as possible, in other words trying to make every critical second count.
The OC staff filled in by friends, one or two of whom sitting with kids, one liaising with staff, the rest searching too.

Police arrive, initially unable to find parents as they are out searching. Police take short statements from those closest to the drama ASAP, whilst some police join foot search, liaising with HQ via radio at the same time.

As soon as the police find K and G on their frantic foot search, and ascertain that the children were left alone, the police should have red-flagged this as possible neglect/endangerment.

As soon as practical (when translator available from police, not member of public i.e. Murat), certainly by the next morning all the adults in the party should have been split up and interrogated and officially been cautioned for leaving the children alone and the early contradictions could be identified before family and friends of Mc's were contacted and spreading incorrect information to media.

The police should also have stopped this flurry of calls to the UK instantly and kept the media away i the very earliest stages.

The 'niceness' of the police in not being firmer initially and getting the Tapas under strict control, allowing them to effectively completely interfere with reporting, crime scene, drawing up dodgy timeline which subsequently negated the possibility of credible independent witness statements, was a huge error on the part of the police IMO. The police should have stamped their authority on this bunch of hapless individuals from the first instance.

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by kikoraton on 02.02.12 16:16

Agree, and it goes without saying that GA should have abandoned his dinner (at Faro?) and been driven down to take personal command that very night.
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What should have happened?

Post by Ross on 02.02.12 16:59

At a meeting formally convened by a senior figure in Leicester's Social Services they were told that leaving a three year old and two eighteen month old children alone at night in a strange apartment in a foreign country with an unlocked door to the street did not constitute responsible parenting, and that their two remaining children were being placed on the 'at risk' register.
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by tigger on 02.02.12 17:18

Ross wrote:At a meeting formally convened by a senior figure in Leicester's Social Services they were told that leaving a three year old and two eighteen month old children alone at night in a strange apartment in a foreign country with an unlocked door to the street did not constitute responsible parenting, and that their two remaining children were being placed on the 'at risk' register.

Excellent! As you say, the power of the press - even if something like that happened, it would never make the papers.
It's rather vague in my memory but I have a feeling that they are not allowed to take the twins out of the country. Would this have anything to do with making Maddie a ward of court? I believe they went to Canada as a family in the autumn of 2007 and wherever I read that, it said this was the last time they'd be able to take the twins abroad.

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Ollie on 02.02.12 17:35

The PJ only followed the abduction line of enquiry. The millions would of still of rolled into the fund, the media would of only printed stories of an abduction. The McCanns would still of had the support of media controllers etc. GM would of become ambassador of children's charities and other organisations, travelling the world, holding audiences.



KM would of quietly stayed in the background continuing the 'search' for Madeleine, from Portugal. Writing her book, which no one would of questioned as they were never made suspects. No newspapers would of paid out huge sums of money, people would not be dragged through the courts for libel, books etc.



How different it could of been for the McCanns if the PJ had only followed the abduction claim.

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by tigger on 02.02.12 18:10

Ollie wrote:The PJ only followed the abduction line of enquiry. The millions would of still of rolled into the fund, the media would of only printed stories of an abduction. The McCanns would still of had the support of media controllers etc. GM would of become ambassador of children's charities and other organisations, travelling the world, holding audiences.



KM would of quietly stayed in the background continuing the 'search' for Madeleine, from Portugal. Writing her book, which no one would of questioned as they were never made suspects. No newspapers would of paid out huge sums of money, people would not be dragged through the courts for libel, books etc.



How different it could of been for the McCanns if the PJ had only followed the abduction claim.

So close! They nearly had it. Yes, that's why they hate Amaral so much, he spoiled their lives forever. The book would certainly have been a bestseller - GM might have stood for parliament. How are the mighty fallen.

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Ollie on 02.02.12 18:32

tigger wrote:
Ollie wrote:The PJ only followed the abduction line of enquiry. The millions would of still of rolled into the fund, the media would of only printed stories of an abduction. The McCanns would still of had the support of media controllers etc. GM would of become ambassador of children's charities and other organisations, travelling the world, holding audiences.



KM would of quietly stayed in the background continuing the 'search' for Madeleine, from Portugal. Writing her book, which no one would of questioned as they were never made suspects. No newspapers would of paid out huge sums of money, people would not be dragged through the courts for libel, books etc.



How different it could of been for the McCanns if the PJ had only followed the abduction claim.

So close! They nearly had it. Yes, that's why they hate Amaral so much, he spoiled their lives forever. The book would certainly have been a bestseller - GM might have stood for parliament. How are the mighty fallen.

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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Lady-Heather on 02.02.12 21:44

Ross wrote:At a meeting formally convened by a senior figure in Leicester's Social Services they were told that leaving a three year old and two eighteen month old children alone at night in a strange apartment in a foreign country with an unlocked door to the street did not constitute responsible parenting, and that their two remaining children were being placed on the 'at risk' register.

Is this true? Is there any way this can be confirmed?
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What should of happened????

Post by Guest on 02.02.12 22:18

Ollie wrote:The PJ only followed the abduction line of enquiry. The millions would of still of rolled into the fund, the media would of only printed stories of an abduction. The McCanns would still of had the support of media controllers etc. GM would of become ambassador of children's charities and other organisations, travelling the world, holding audiences.



KM would of quietly stayed in the background continuing the 'search' for Madeleine, from Portugal. Writing her book, which no one would of questioned as they were never made suspects. No newspapers would of paid out huge sums of money, people would not be dragged through the courts for libel, books etc.



How different it could of been for the McCanns if the PJ had only followed the abduction claim.
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Guest on 02.02.12 22:21

Lady-Heather wrote:
Ross wrote:At a meeting formally convened by a senior figure in Leicester's Social Services they were told that leaving a three year old and two eighteen month old children alone at night in a strange apartment in a foreign country with an unlocked door to the street did not constitute responsible parenting, and that their two remaining children were being placed on the 'at risk' register.

Is this true? Is there any way this can be confirmed?

This is just wishful thinking, alas! The topic refers to what should have happened, rather than what did.
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Ross on 02.02.12 23:08

Lady-Heather wrote:Is this true? Is there any way this can be confirmed?

No, I'm afraid as Jean has pointed out this is what should have happened. I did phrase it slightly satirically because you may recall McCann saying that he had had a chat with senior figure in Leicester social services who had informed him that their actions were 'well within the bounds of parental responsibility'.

I have wondered aloud here before if someone in court on charges of child neglect one day will attempt the 'McCann Defence'. 'Well your honour, We were only out drinking in the pub down the road, rather like dining with friends in a tapas bar...'
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by aquila on 02.02.12 23:19

Ross wrote:
Lady-Heather wrote:Is this true? Is there any way this can be confirmed?

No, I'm afraid as Jean has pointed out this is what should have happened. I did phrase it slightly satirically because you may recall McCann saying that he had had a chat with senior figure in Leicester social services who had informed him that their actions were 'well within the bounds of parental responsibility'.

I have wondered aloud here before if someone in court on charges of child neglect one day will attempt the 'McCann Defence'. 'Well your honour, We were only out drinking in the pub down the road, rather like dining with friends in a tapas bar...'

If that chat actually happened did the so-called senior figure in Leicester Social Services endorse that remark? and who precisely is that senior figure?
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Ross on 02.02.12 23:38

aquila wrote:
If that chat actually happened did the so-called senior figure in Leicester Social Services endorse that remark? and who precisely is that senior figure?

No, no-one was ever named and let's face it they wouldn't want to be named if they had made such an irresponsible comment. For all we know it was just a line dreamed up by Clarence to justify the lack of action by the UK authorities in a case of clear parental neglect.
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by aquila on 02.02.12 23:47

Ross wrote:
aquila wrote:
If that chat actually happened did the so-called senior figure in Leicester Social Services endorse that remark? and who precisely is that senior figure?

No, no-one was ever named and let's face it they wouldn't want to be named if they had made such an irresponsible comment. For all we know it was just a line dreamed up by Clarence to justify the lack of action by the UK authorities in a case of clear parental neglect.

so are we saying GM said this or CM dreamt it up? Which is it to be?
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Re: What should have happened?

Post by Ross on 03.02.12 0:01

aquila wrote:so are we saying GM said this or CM dreamt it up? Which is it to be?

GM said it. How much of what he says for public consumption is part of the media management strategy devised by others is open to speculation.
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