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drugs in the mccanns apartment

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by tigger on 05.01.14 14:21

All I can say is that I took an antihistamine from Boots which specifically stated it didn't cause drowsiness.
One pill and I slept through an entire afternoon of a conference, people talking, flickering screen made no difference.

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 05.01.14 14:21

Terfenadine
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Terfenadine

Systematic (IUPAC) name
(RS)-1-(4-tert-butylphenyl)-4-{4-[hydroxy(diphenyl)methyl]piperidin-1-yl}-butan-1-ol
Clinical data
Trade names Seldane, Triludan, Teldane
AHFS/Drugs.com Multum Consumer Information
MedlinePlus a600034
Pregnancy cat. C (US)
Legal status Withdrawn
Pharmacokinetic data
Protein binding 70%
Half-life 3.5 hours
Identifiers
CAS number 50679-08-8
ATC code R06AX12
PubChem CID 5405
IUPHAR ligand 2608
DrugBank DB00342
ChemSpider 5212
UNII 7BA5G9Y06Q
KEGG D00521
ChEMBL CHEMBL17157
Chemical data
Formula C32H41NO2
Mol. mass 471.673 g/mol
SMILES[show]
InChI[show]
(what is this?) (verify)
Terfenadine was an antihistamine formerly used for the treatment of allergic conditions. It was brought to market by Hoechst Marion Roussel (now Sanofi-Aventis) and marketed under various brand names, including Seldane in the United States, Triludan in the United Kingdom, and Teldane in Australia. According to its manufacturer, terfenadine had been used by over 100 million patients worldwide as of 1990.[1] It was superseded by fexofenadine in the 1990s due to the risk of a particular type of disruption of the electrical rhythms of the heart (specifically cardiac arrhythmia caused by QT interval prolongation).
Terfenadine is a prodrug, generally completely metabolized to the active form fexofenadine in the liver by the enzyme cytochrome P450 CYP3A4 isoform. Due to its near complete metabolism by the liver immediately after leaving the gut, terfenadine normally is not measurable in the plasma. Terfenadine itself, however, is cardiotoxic at higher doses, while its major active metabolite is not. The reason for the differences in cardiotoxicity between Terfenadine and fexofenadine is not fully understood. Toxicity is possible after years of continued use with no previous problems as a result of an interaction with other medications such as erythromycin, or foods such as grapefruit. The addition of, or dosage change in, these CYP3A4 inhibitors makes it harder for the body to metabolize and remove terfenadine. In larger plasma concentrations, it may lead to toxic effects on the heart's rhythm (e.g. ventricular tachycardia and torsades de pointes).
History[edit]

In the United States, Seldane was brought to market in 1985 as the first nonsedating antihistamine for the treatment of allergic rhinitis.[1][2] In June 1990, evidence of serious ventricular arrhythmias among those taking Seldane prompted the FDA to issue a report on the risk factors associated with concomitant use of the drug with macrolide antibiotics and ketoconazole.[1] Two months later, the FDA required the manufacturer to send a letter to all physicians, alerting them to the problem; in July 1992, the existing precautions were elevated to a black box warning[1] and the issue attracted mass media attention in reports that people with liver disease or who took ketoconazole, an antifungal agent, or the antibiotic erythromycin, could suffer cardiac arrhythmia if they also took Seldane.[2]
In January 1997, the same month when the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) had earlier approved a generic version of Seldane made by IVAX Corporation of Miami, the FDA recommended terfenadine-containing drugs be removed from the market and physicians consider alternative medications for their patients.[2] Seldane (and Seldane-D, terfenadine combined with the decongestant pseudoephedrine) were removed from the U.S. market by their manufacturer in late 1997 after the FDA approval of Allegra-D (fexofenadine/pseudoephedrine).[3] Terfenadine-containing drugs were subsequently removed from the Canadian market in 1999,[4] and are no longer available for prescription in the UK.[5]

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 05.01.14 14:38

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Gerry McCanns' statement, 07 September 2007

Medication for the children

When questioned, he states that none of his children takes any kind of medication regularly in England.

When they travelled on holiday to Portugal they brought several medicines, namely Calpol, Nurofen, for fevers and pains, both for adults and children, Losec for gastric problems that he occasionally suffers from, and an anti-histamine called Terfenadine for hay fever. He did not give any of these medicines or any others to the children while on holiday in Portugal.
_________________________________________



And IR-regularly? This guy knows how to answer questions, so did he or did he not?

Was Terfenadine -a banned drum in the US- really still available someplace else for use with hay fever?

Is there any risk of hay fever in the Algarve at the end of April- beginning of May?

Did GM give Terfenadine to the kids while NOT on holiday?

Dis someone else give Terfenadine to the kids WHILE on holiday?

WTF did they bring this potentially deadly stuff with them in the first place?
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 05.01.14 14:42

@beijos wrote:A quick note on medicines etc in Portugal.

It is common in Portugal, and more so in Spain, to be able to buy most pharmaceutical products over the counter in the farmacia, which would require a prescription in Australia and the UK. Typically this is for repeats of the same medicines, although if you knew what you were talking about, you could get most anything. However, a medics prescription does bring the OTC cost down (e.g. one type of steroid we buy is 48 euro without prescription and 9 euro with).

Moreover, Portugal is one of the only Western countries which have decriminalised the use of all narcotic drugs (including cocaine, heroin etc). Supply of these drugs is still a criminal offence as per most other countries. Only in the high tourist season of June, July and August do we see people claiming to hawk these, and only at certain large resorts where there are a lot of tourists. It is still a very rare sight.

beijos x

So, what you say is, if you wanted to be able to use cocaine and heroin without any risk of being caught/punished, -say- PdL would have been a right place to be?
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Smokeandmirrors on 05.01.14 14:47

Well quite.

I find this interesting - there are factual "dots" here: they probably don't join up, but nevertheless, those "dots" ARE facts.

Terfenadine - withdrawn because of adverse effects, esp linking to heart arrhythmia

Left in a low level piece of furniture in the parents bedroom, unsecured, as evidenced by the Photo 18 in the files

Madeleine had a coloboma (at least in some photographs), and it has been suggested that a coloboma may be linked to heart defects

Madeleine had awoken at least once when the parents were out, and Kate admits the children were unsupervised when she had a shower/bath


Of course, these facts may have nothing whatsoever of relevance to the case of a vanished Madeleine. They are merely there on file and as a matter of public record.



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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 05.01.14 14:56

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:Well quite.

I find this interesting - there are factual "dots" here: they probably don't join up, but nevertheless, those "dots" ARE facts.

Terfenadine - withdrawn because of adverse effects, esp linking to heart arrhythmia

Left in a low level piece of furniture in the parents bedroom, unsecured, as evidenced by the Photo 18 in the files

Madeleine had a coloboma (at least in some photographs), and it has been suggested that a coloboma may be linked to heart defects

Madeleine had awoken at least once when the parents were out, and Kate admits the children were unsupervised when she had a shower/bath


Of course, these facts may have nothing whatsoever of relevance to the case of a vanished Madeleine. They are merely there on file and as a matter of public record.



Bit like the dogs. Black and white, but at the same time neither here nor there.
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by beijos on 05.01.14 14:59

@Portia wrote:
@beijos wrote:A quick note on medicines etc in Portugal.

It is common in Portugal, and more so in Spain, to be able to buy most pharmaceutical products over the counter in the farmacia, which would require a prescription in Australia and the UK. Typically this is for repeats of the same medicines, although if you knew what you were talking about, you could get most anything. However, a medics prescription does bring the OTC cost down (e.g. one type of steroid we buy is 48 euro without prescription and 9 euro with).

Moreover, Portugal is one of the only Western countries which have decriminalised the use of all narcotic drugs (including cocaine, heroin etc). Supply of these drugs is still a criminal offence as per most other countries. Only in the high tourist season of June, July and August do we see people claiming to hawk these, and only at certain large resorts where there are a lot of tourists. It is still a very rare sight.

beijos x

So, what you say is, if you wanted to be able to use cocaine and heroin without any risk of being caught/punished, -say- PdL would have been a right place to be?

I'd never thought of it that way before. But yes (anywhere in Portugal), however for that time of the year, and for Luz, which attracts the retired and the middle aged with young children, very unlikely.

If it was sedatives you were after, then any farmacia would do it without prescription. However, and again, for that time of year, they would remember any non-Portuguese buying such things.
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by aiyoyo on 05.01.14 15:21




What's common trait as in appearance of class A drug abuser ? Gaunt looking and outer space like behavior.


We know of one who appears out as a sky in the Panorama Interview.
Jolly when talking about her missing first born as if not having a care in the world.



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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by marconi on 05.01.14 20:40

@worriedmum wrote:There are posts on this site with photographs of Parkinsons drugs for use by Bryan Healy stating they were found in 'the apartment'.  Is there anyone out there who can tell me whether this is the first apt (5a) or the one they were moved to?
When did Bryan Healy arrive in PdL?

I think the one they were moved to.

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by marconi on 05.01.14 20:51

The green of the Brazilian flag refers to the royal house of Bragança and the yellow to the Habsburgs, both belonging to the Portuguese history.

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by canada12 on 05.01.14 22:20

If that's a packet of antihistamine and / or anti-allergy meds, it looks like they're in a childproof blister-pak where you have to be quite strong and coordinated in order to get the pills out of the packaging. I have trouble getting similar meds out of their packaging.

I'd hazard a guess that if these meds somehow found their way into a child, they would either have had to have been administered by an adult, or a pill / pills had been taken out of its packaging and left unprotected in an accessible area, and consumed by the child, perhaps out of curiosity (as children are), or perhaps trying to be "helpful" (if it was a regular habit, for instance). And then perhaps, an additional dosage could have been administered, not knowing about the first one.

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 05.01.14 22:53

Might be interesting to find out if the package a/o the strips were fingerprinted.

As GM is supposedly the only one using them, probably his fingerprints would be the only ones on them.

If not, somebody else could have a problem



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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by sonic72 on 05.01.14 22:58

@sharonl wrote:
@worriedmum wrote:There are posts on this site with photographs of Parkinsons drugs for use by Bryan Healy stating they were found in 'the apartment'.  Is there anyone out there who can tell me whether this is the first apt (5a) or the one they were moved to?
When did Bryan Healy arrive in PdL?

I was just about to upload a video for you.  It was in Portuguese, but it showed the McCanns apartment, all the books that they had somehow acquired, the medication and what looked like a shrine with Madeleines photo, a cross and rosary beads.  It seems that the video is no longer available in the UK for legal reasons.  Maybe someone else can access it, or perhaps you have seen the video anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akIDiz5Rv_c

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/09/exclusive-new-videos-madeleine-mccann.html


Antena3 Article: The McCanns kept numerous medicines which provoked sleepiness

New Exclusive Images of the Report
Madrid, Espejo Público [an Antena3 TV Show]

Given the repeated denial of the British police to send different reports about the married couple, the Portuguese police made a profile searching throughout the McCanns second house, in Praia da Luz.

This way, officers accompanied by two police psychologists, carry out a meticulous search in the main bedroom [the parents’ bedroom].

In a case of abduction, the family circle is always investigated. The police were surprised on having seen the bedroom. Kate seems to be mourning. In her small bedside table are many photos of Maddy [sic] surrounded with rosaries and a Bible, which had bookmarked, with a picture a fragment of the Old Testament in which it could be read: " “However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die” [2 Samuel 12:14]".

At the other side of the bed, on Gerry's bedside table the attention is given to, between other books, “The interpretation of Murder ". In the study [office space] where Gerry writes his blog and where he works at the campaign to find his daughter, another surprise: CEOP manuals, books with access restricted to police and governmental entities.

Before this discovery, Mark Harrison, the British police officer sent from the United Kingdom to coordinate the case, does not give credit. He wonders how many married couples had access to these manuals, which are exclusively reserved to police officers.

The Portuguese Officers confirm in this way their suspicions regarding the contacts which are provided to the McCanns, which for them is translated in a big political pressure that to their judgement, limits the investigation.

Also, the police find numerous medicines, which they examine in search of these sedatives that they fear that were given to the children by the McCanns on the night of the 3rd of May. They also register the side effects caused by the medicines that they find, and verify that the majority of them provoke sleepiness. They examine as well the drawers, closets, as well as the twins’ room and that no longer sleep in cots but in beds.

The final report of the process, in contrast to the images included in the same report, state that independently of the curious and morbid conclusions, the only fact that one can determine, as such, is the disparate behaviour of the couple at the time of facing Madeleine's disappearance.

Source: Antena3 (Spanish)


Related: Madeleine McCann the Facts in the Beginning (SOL article)

3. In the Vista Mar villa (rented by the McCanns)

a) cadaver odour, detected by the dogs on clothes that belong to Kate, and on the pink soft toy

b) an English book, normally used by police, that focuses on the different types of crimes, as well as on what clues should be looked for to identify its perpetrators

c) a bible, on Kate’s bedside table, open at the Old Testament, at the passage that tells the death of King David’s son (God punished David with the death of his son, in order to force him away from sin and to return onto the path of good)

d) Kate’s diary, in which she writes about daily difficulties, in dealing with her children


Flash News for tomorrow/today

24 Horas : PJ searches Madeleine pictures in Paedophile Files /Brazilian senator brings various Horrible files

Note this has to do with the recent co-operation between the Brazilian Federal Police and the Portuguese Judiciary Police.


Video you posted is dead. Says it was removed due to a 'legal complaint'. Seems that the mccann's are leaving no stone unturned when it comes to covering tracks.

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by canada12 on 05.01.14 23:45

I can still see the video. Some stones have obviously still been left un-unturned in Canada :-D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akIDiz5Rv_c

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by PeterMac on 06.01.14 8:38

Can see it in Spain too.

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 06.01.14 10:40

Also available to see here in France.
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 06.01.14 11:04

@tigger wrote:All I can say is that I took an antihistamine from Boots which specifically  stated it didn't cause drowsiness.
One pill and I slept through an entire afternoon of a conference, people talking, flickering screen made no difference.

Non-drowsy antihistamine have the same effect on me - within minutes I'm out cold.

@canada12 wrote:If that's a packet of antihistamine and / or anti-allergy meds, it looks like they're in a childproof blister-pak where you have to be quite strong and coordinated in order to get the pills out of the packaging. I have trouble getting similar meds out of their packaging.

I'd hazard a guess that if these meds somehow found their way into a child, they would either have had to have been administered by an adult, or a pill / pills had been taken out of its packaging and left unprotected in an accessible area, and consumed by the child, perhaps out of curiosity (as children are), or perhaps trying to be "helpful" (if it was a regular habit, for instance). And then perhaps, an additional dosage could have been administered, not knowing about the first one.

There's no such thing as childproof packaging. Young kids are surprisingly strong, agile and resourceful so a determined toddler with enough time (perhaps left unattended for a few hours) will get through any "childproof packaging" especially if she can see the "sweeties" inside.
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by bobbin on 06.01.14 11:59

What drugs were in McCanns apartment, i.e. where a child could access such medicines, together ?
Losec and Seldane.

Just a quick search and the following comes up for the drugs Omeprazol / Losec and Terfenedine (Seldane)....
Losec (also known as Omeprazol) and Seldane (also known asTerfenedine) combinations.
Contraindicated

Never use this combination of drugs because of high risk for dangerous interaction

omeprazole-clarith-amoxicillin oral and terfenadine oral both increase causing a dangerous abnormal heart rhythm.


http://www.rxlist.com/drug-interactions/omeprazole-clarith-amoxicillin-oral-and-terfenadine-oral-interaction.htm

More info saved if required, will post separately but the above is sufficient.
(Pill Identifier Search
January 6, 2014
home > drug interactionschecker > omeprazole-clarith-amoxicillin oral and terfenadine oral interactions

Drug interactions with omeprazole-clarith-amoxicillin oral and terfenadine oral
omeprazole-clarith-amoxicillin oral brand names and other generic formulations include:
Omeclamox-Pak Oral
All generic drug interactions for omeprazole-clarith-amoxicillin oral (lists will include brand and generic names):
• 33 contraindicated drug interactions
• 296 serious drug interactions
• 364 significant drug interactions
• 92 minor drug interactions
terfenadine oral brand names and other generic formulations include:
Seldane Oral
All generic drug interactions for terfenadine oral (lists will include brand and generic names):
• 26 contraindicated drug interactions
• 85 serious drug interactions
• 322 significant drug interactions
• 7 minor drug interactions
• Patients and Caregivers
• Clinician Explanation

Contraindicated Never use this combination of drugs because of high risk for dangerous interaction
omeprazole-clarith-amoxicillin oral and terfenadine oral
omeprazole-clarith-amoxicillin oral and terfenadine oral both increase causing a dangerous abnormal heart rhythm.
Patient Drug Interactions Source: RxList
© 2014 RxList, Inc.
Check for more interactions with the Drug Interaction Checker
Check Now »
Drug Interaction Categories
Contraindicated
Never use this combination of drugs because of high risk for dangerous interaction
Serious
Potential for serious interaction; regular monitoring by your doctor required or alternate medication may be needed
Significant
Potential for significant interaction (monitoring by your doctor is likely required)
Minor
Interaction is unlikely, minor, or nonsignificant



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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by aiyoyo on 06.01.14 12:26

Poe wrote:
@tigger wrote:All I can say is that I took an antihistamine from Boots which specifically  stated it didn't cause drowsiness.
One pill and I slept through an entire afternoon of a conference, people talking, flickering screen made no difference.

Non-drowsy antihistamine have the same effect on me - within minutes I'm out cold.

@canada12 wrote:If that's a packet of antihistamine and / or anti-allergy meds, it looks like they're in a childproof blister-pak where you have to be quite strong and coordinated in order to get the pills out of the packaging. I have trouble getting similar meds out of their packaging.

I'd hazard a guess that if these meds somehow found their way into a child, they would either have had to have been administered by an adult, or a pill / pills had been taken out of its packaging and left unprotected in an accessible area, and consumed by the child, perhaps out of curiosity (as children are), or perhaps trying to be "helpful" (if it was a regular habit, for instance). And then perhaps, an additional dosage could have been administered, not knowing about the first one.

There's no such thing as childproof packaging. Young kids are surprisingly strong, agile and resourceful so a determined toddler with enough time (perhaps left unattended for a few hours) will get through any "childproof packaging" especially if she can see the "sweeties" inside.  

Far as I am aware there is no such thing as non drowsy antihistamine and I should know because I used to work for a period with doctors.
Bottle packaging with safety cap can be rather difficult to open even for adults. Apart from that, all other packages is not beyond a child.

One would think Maddie accident isn't self-caused, ingestion by mistake whatever, thus the need to conceal her body from pathology examination.
If she'd taken medicine by mistake while unsupervised wouldn't it be better to send her to the hospital and try to explain their way out rather than this big deceit?
I believe she was given the sedation.
You will be surprised at the range of medicines (even prohibited ones) doctors can lay their hands on.
Pharmaceutical Sale People are fond of giving free samples to hospitals and private practices to entice these establishments to buy their products.
It's called freebies...buy certain products and get some new ones or even forbidden-ones-locally (but not in another country also under their distribution) FOC.
Besides, one supposes doctors would have contacts with pharmacists or people in the industry to obtain what they want.
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by aiyoyo on 06.01.14 12:37

@bobbin wrote:What drugs were in McCanns apartment, i.e. where a child could access such medicines, together ?
Losec and Seldane.

Just a quick search and the following comes up for the drugs Omeprazol / Losec and Terfenedine (Seldane)....
[color=#ff3333]Losec (also known as Omeprazol) and Seldane (also known asTerfenedine) combinations.
Contraindicated




Omeprazol is a delayed-release inhibitor for gastric acid reflux and usually prescribed to adults.
Terfenedine is anti-histamine for allergies( superseded by fexofenadine later) because of the risk of disruption to heart rhythms, highly dangerous to prescribe to a child.

If this was given to a child by mistake, the child should be closely monitored or seek doctor advice immediately.
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by PeterMac on 07.01.14 10:49

@Smokeandmirrors wrote:
@canada12 wrote:
@Smokeandmirrors wrote:The drug packet in the room is Terfenadine as per Gerry's statement. Was withdrawn prior to 2007 as it can produce dangerous heart issues, also can be lethal if combined with grapefruit juice. It is a non-drowsy anti-histamine and was withdrawn from the US market before the UK.
Can cause heart arrhythmia, which co-incidentally is a condition which has been linked to coloboma.
Very irresponsible for tablets of this nature within reach of children, particularly if left unsupervised.

ETA Seldane is a brand name of terfenadine, which is the name on Gerry's pills.

Wikipedia has info on this, but there are also more high-brow sites that explain the cardio-toxicity of the medicine and reasons why it was withdrawn from use.

How can you read what the package says? Is there a better quality photo somewhere?

You can see that the name of the drug begins with an "S". Gerry said in his statement that the medicine he had was Terfenadine, a generic name, Seldane being a brand. To work out that the terfenadine tablets he had were seldane is very easy. It's one of those things which has been there in plain view, and is very interesting. I find it interesting, anyway, that a cardiologist had tablets which had been a) withdrawn before 2007 and b) as a cardiologist, that he would take them as they are a well know cardio-toxin and c) wouldd leave them in reach of tiny children who we know were unsupervised for significant periods of time.
Be careful with seeing too much

terfeandine is marketed as Seldane in the USA, but as TRILUDAN in the UK.

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by paradigm67 on 07.01.14 17:27

Hi
First post and all but I watched the extended dog videos on youtube yesterday from the McCann files, sure one of them has the video showing the apartment walkthrough with the 'shrine' books and medicines.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html

I'm in the UK and can view them OK. Presuming that the ones unavailable to UK users must be different ones.

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 9:47

This is a bit off-topic but if you struggle opening childproof tablet bottles there is an easy way:

1. Turn the bottle upside down and put it on a carpeted floor.

2. Put the palm of your hand over the bottom of the bottle, lean onto it and turn.

The carpet holds the lid so you can open the bottle with one hand ...I don't recommend you try this with liquid medicine  laughat 

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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 10:40

Thanks for that Poe; I won't be able to try it with bottles of bleach though - they're also a right sod to open!

I have in the past had to use a wrench to get the tops off bottles which are adult as well as child proof.
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Re: drugs in the mccanns apartment

Post by Guest on 08.01.14 10:41

I use a nut-cracker.
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