Re: Carole Tranmer

by Guest 07.02.12 10:17

@Daisy wrote:To qualify, nowhere in CT's statement does she say she was
there when her aunt was victim to an intruder. All we have to back that up is a
couple of dodgy mainstream media reports - probably courtesy of Clarence the
cross-eyed lion.

Please don’t
take my word for it, read the statement thoroughly & you will see.

Oh really Daisy, is that so? Then why does the Detective ask her these questions?

"You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw"

"You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace"

She could have denied this, but said nothing. At the very least she could have clarified and cleared up the questions asked of her, but she did not.

Now why would she refuse to clear up these two simple, VERY simple questions?

ETA the full piece of transcript

DC1485 The (inaudible) people. What I will do next Carole, is to show you a part of a map, okay, and I will ask you to outline some parts as well.

CT Outline.

DC1485 Yes.

CT Oh my God.

DC1485 You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw.

CT Mmm.

DC1485 You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace.

CT Mmm, mmm

by Guest 07.02.12 10:28

Here is a list of all the questions put forward to Carole Tranmer. There is some very interesting, specific line of questioning in that interview, that might open up other lines of enquiry..

Name, date of birth and address

occupation, I believe, you are retired

What was your occupation before retirement

Did you like what you did

Do you have children

You have no children, therefore, do you live alone with your husband

How long have you been married

In the same location

Same house, yes

You told me that you worked at Windsor Castle

Did you know the Queen

Personally or

How did that happen

And did you speak to the Queen or Philip

And Diana, did you know Diana

What I am about to ask you Caroline, is to make an introduction, that you tell me a bit about yourself and how you managed or organised your stay in Portugal during the time of the disappearance

Could it have been Pinhal do Sol

Did they visit you at work

Were they at all unaccommodating

The fact that they came to visit you

I would like to clarify in your statement On the 28th of May, 2008 my husband and I, Chris TRANMER, caught a flight to Portugal to spend a week of holidays in the eastern Algarve and in addition, to look for properties to buy. 'We stayed in a location called Quarteira, is that so

Well then, it was after, after the disappearance of Madeleine, was it not

Let me show you what you said, where I want to arrive, ma'am, you returned to Portugal after the disappearance of Madeleine

So that date is incorrect

April, this is it then

It says here, Saturday, the 28th of May

And here it says May, thus this statement is incorrect, right

Good. Let us clarify the statement collected on the 8th of May, relative to the dates referred to

In fact it should be Saturday, the 28th of April

Good, then in relation to the date, everything is now correct

Yes, good. Relative to what you said happened on Thursday, your statement states that Thursday, the 3rd, you went to visit your aunt. Therefore, you saw her on Sunday

And after that you went in search of properties

Passing through the eastern Algarve, right

Thursday, the 3rd of May

You returned to your aunt in Praia. Now tell me from where you were coming and tell me about that day

This was on Sunday, right

This on Thursday, I understand

It was a two hour trip then

Speak to me about the apartment where your aunt lives

It is obviously called, given its location, the Ocean Club, right

How long has she been there, in that apartment

ground floor... ground floor, first floor

Third floor

Therefore, when one leaves the elevator, to which side does one walk, left or right

And when you enter, give me a description of the apartment

When you are on the terrace, to which direction are you turned

Who else lives there

And who else lives with her

And you can confirm that it is block 5G

And the name of, and the number of the apartment, 5G

Apartment 20

Waterside Gardens

Very good. When you look outside, as you mentioned a while ago, when you spoke of the view at which you were turned when you enter the terrace, tell me, what do you see below that area

Okay. And did you see anyone else; you know what day it was; the day you were there, on Thursday. Do you know if there were more tourists in that block of apartments

Was there anyone who called your attention, think, think well about the location and where you were on this day

Besides the individual, obviously

When you speak of a celebration, was it was a barbeque or a bunch of people in good moods

When you were there, did you visit the supermarket

Try to position yourself during the second visit; given what happened on Thursday, think about the hour you arrived. Think about whether someone welcomed you when you exited the car. Ok

And did you go on foot or by car

How long did the journey take

Okay. What was the restaurant called

It is a restaurant that serves fish

On top of the hill

Did you go to the Tapas Bar with your aunt

And the courts, did you visit the tennis courts

You did not use the pool

And the crèche did you go to the crèche zone where the children were

Okay. How many times were you there exactly

Okay. When you were there how was the temperature

The (inaudible) people. What I will do next Carole, is to show you a part of a map, okay, and I will ask you to outline some parts as well

You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw

You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace

This, this is a map, it only covers the Luz area and he have here, if you can imagine, or even see exactly, the block of apartments.

This is rua estreita

The passageway, right., point me to the direction from which the individual came.

And if you could show me in the way a camera captures an image. From, from which apartment did he leave and to where did he go and where were you

Look to the bottom where you were looking, if you want. You were looking to the bottom to the right and downwards, but this is not towards the lower apartment but is actually slightly to the right and there is her veranda and finally, here on top, for I would say that here there is a small gate, for this reason it was not this apartment in the end, that is what I wanted to say, you know

No, it was not the first gate

How many gates are there in total

Okay, and your direction was this way, following the passageway or to the other direction towards the shrubs

In the inside

Would you mind making me an outline, please

If you would, if you make it, if you could make the same one as this block here

And after, please mark an X in the location where you saw this man leaving

And after where, where is the gate in relation to the area from where he left.

And can you tell me if he came out of an apartment or was simply exiting the complex

From an apartment

Did the gate give direct access to the apartment

In your opinion, is it possible that he was leaving his apartment, next to the last apartment

Yes and after you saw him leave, what happened

With caution

So what you are saying is that he looked first in your direction' He looked to you, but he was not positioned. This way

Then he looked to the left

And after he cautiously and slowly pushed it and afterwards looked to the right, and continued walking

He then went in this direction to the street, here, this street

Along here in this direction towards the supermarket

Then on your map, where do you believe you saw him for the last time

Yes, then, the last location at which you saw him, he would have been, would it be possible that the last time you saw him, he was passing the apartments in direction of the street

I am not here to put words in your mouth, or ideas in your head Carole, but it is possible that the last time you saw him he was only passing through, as I have already indicated from the location of the McCann apartment. The last time you saw him was passing by the McCann apartment then

Then Mrs. Tranmer, what happened first, did you lose sight of him or did he disappear from your line if sight

So you turned

You turned

With your back to him

Then before you turned, he was still visible

And you as well

This is great, it is great, it is clear, okay. I am going to now try to ask a series of questions that the Portuguese police would like to ask you, okay

Perhaps you have already answered before but what I want you to do, it to respond with as much detail possible. Good, the first questions is ' do you attest to you statement given to the British police in May of two thousand'eight of may of 2007. Do you attest to the statement that was made on this day to the police, the same statement that I showed you on the 8th of May

This statement is yours

I will only, it is not necessary to read, but I am going to show you as it is necessary to confirm your statement and that it is your statement

Okay, thank you, and the only anomaly is the incorrect date

April

Well, I am going to help you refresh your memory a new and back to when this individual appeared

You have already stated that is was on Thursday because this was the day you visited your aunt

And at what time, I need to come to a definitive time with the hours

What do you think, it was not after the... and it was not before the

I assume that I was there, I was there between...we were there around 11, 10 or 11. We took my aunt, we must have left around 11h30, a quarter to noon, and in order to go to the restaurant. Now it may have been a bit early. We had a coffee before we left and really strange to me is the feeling that it could have happened then'I feel that it was when we returned and were drinking coffee

Then you mentioned previously, you said before that you left around 6h30

So, let us recap

How much time

Then for a total of three hours, and there were (inaudible) for three hours, yes

Good, you left around 8h30, sorry

What time before this did you see the individual

It does not matter that you are trying to guess, it does not matter that you guess

Well, we have already been at this for one hour and have made good progress. We are moving along very well. It is very difficult

You were there two hours

To go to the restaurant

Okay, I think I am happy that you saw this individual in the afternoon

Did anyone visit your apartment

So our window is between

3:30

And if I were to give you hints, because you could ask yourself this, was it at the beginning of your stay, close to 3:30

More, more than 5:30

Well think, think about the possibility of 3:30, would you say 4:30

Well, given the window of between 3:30 and 4:30

Okay, and you told me that you were on your aunt's terrace

Okay, and what is there on the terrace

Then it was not a specific look below, we will call it a glance

Then was it necessary to look more furtively

Okay, your path was like this, when you were in the apartment and walked out, can you see the direction on the terrace

How much time to get there from you room

From the door or from where

So leaving the apartment one must get up but if one is seated on the terrace

And if sitting next to the terrace wall

Can you see, is it possible for people to pass through the top and below

Okay. To jog your memory to remember the topic of conversation, I mean, you confirmed that the individual called your attention but after that you turned to speak with your husband. Can you remember what you said to your husband

Was this individual accompanied by anyone

Okay, the next thing is the description, this will be difficult for you, I know, but try and remember as much as possible even if they are details that may appear... ohh. Assume that I know nothing

Presuppose that I have just entered this investigation, that I do not know about your previous statement; that I know nothing about this individual

Could you give him an age

And his aspect

And when he walked, did he have any particular walk or limp

You told me he did not have tattoos; was he wearing any jewellery

And his T-shirt, you spoke to me about his T-shirt, did it have an inscription

And the T-shirt, did it have buttons or was it simply something that went up to the neck

Yes, and was it loose-fitting

Did it fit him loosely

And he was well-shaven

Yes without a beard or did you notice anything else

Spectacles

He did not use sunglasses

Okay, and for how long did you think you saw him

And I know that you pointed to the map, as you know, that you were on the third floor and he was here, this is, rua estreita, as you revealed

And how, what is your opinion; are you good at measuring distances

You refer to the top of the double-decker, the double-decker until the end

I though you said that you were capable of being precise

Have you looked here to outside

Is it roughly the same height

Are the apartments have high ceilings or low-ceilings

They are higher than this

Or it could be, we are speaking, if I told you 30 metres, twenty meters, thirty metres, 40 metres, which do you think it would be'

Feet and inches

Yes, because there we were also on the top of a hill

And the temperature, you told me that the temperature was cold but it was sunny on this day or were you covered

It seems to me that you would recognise this individual were you to see him again

Okay, and you told me, when we were speaking of his behaviour, you told me that he left and shut the gate very slowly after himself, that he had to turn. With both his hands

He turned and pulled the gate, he pulled or pushed the gate closed

Because it opens from the inside

Yes, then when you saw him leave, he had to pull the gate in his direction

Okay, and you told me that he was doing this stealthily, what do you mean by stealthily

This was the photo-sketch that you reproduced

Yes, I was intrigued that the reason for his sunglasses

Then you are telling me that this is not the photo-fit that you made

No, but the hair is the same

I know that the image is not very good

The format of the face is the same, the format of the mouth is the same

But this is not it, this is not your photo-sketch

No, it is not... okay. And the name Tasmin

Well, do you remember the name of the person who made the photo with you

Tasmin, does that have any significance for you

Yes, from Reading

Well, there must be some confusion. I would like to finally ask you regarding your aunt, Pamela FENN

Speak to me about her

Yes... where she used to live, you told me that she moved there in 2003

So she still has family in England

Where do they live

Is there anybody in the family called (inaudible), any younger member called FENN

They are all FENN

And girls

So there are no girls with the name FENN

And the children

They are all FENN'S. What are their names

Okay. Finally Carole, I would like to go over with you the photos you brought with you, which you showed to me before the interview

Please clarify for me, when these were taken, who took it, and...

If we select this photograph, I will show it to you, okay

This one shows you

Yes

Oh, that one... hummm. Where the McCanns stayed

That is the gate where you saw the individual

Where you stood

I will (inaudible) see something. Image 50590 okay, that I what I will call it

Image 0590 is one of your pictures

And you are looking below

And tell me where is the gate, in relation to the rest

To your right

At what time of the day do you think this photograph was taken

It was taken on Sunday

I will make copies of these photographs, later, after completing your statement.

And I have this as your proof and evidence

Right, okay

I will see what I (inaudible) can do with them

Okay, I will get up for two minutes and ask my colleague if any fact has escaped me

Hello, I have returned. I apologise for the length of my absence (inaudible), my colleague was trying to get a better quality photograph copy, the one I showed him was very, very light, wasn't it

Does this bring back memories

No, but if you could imagine him without sunglasses, is it very difficult

This was made by another witness, who affirms having seen a man who corresponds to his description but...

Okay, but this one

What did he do

He was from Reading

Did he leave a card or another contact

Is the name recognisable

Where did they go

They went to your office

How many of them were there

I am not suggesting that he, he

Yes, I am not suggesting this, simply, I want you to help me find him

You told me that he was young
He was in his youth

You have a fantastic memory, did you know that

Good, I will ask you to contact us first, unless you have a preference

And call me after or

I keep all my appointments and if there is anything, because when I was working, I was better organised compared to when I do nothing

Because he must have said his name and the visit and you may have made a note in your agenda

Okay. Some questions that were asked of me need clarification, first you told me everything that you saw when he was at the gate. In what direction he was looking when he exited; when he was preparing to leave; when he began walking through the gate and consequently, already outside the gate

How much time, how much time did he look to the left

Like he was stopping to look

Did someone else see him

You would not have stayed there and

Very good. Is there anything else you would like to add, given that eleven months have passed when you first spoke of this

Had you seen anyone prior, anyone at all, leaving by that gate before

And do you remember if it was occupied at that time

Was there anyone there, who perhaps put out clothing

Do you know if your aunt knew of anyone staying as a guest, or mentioned that someone was staying there

Questions from the Letter of Request:
XV - Interview to the witness CAROLE ANNE TRAMMER, PAMELA FENN'S niece, who lives in the apartment above the one used by the McCANN family, to be identified by the Requested Authority. She should be asked the following questions :

* Do you confirm your Statements, taken by the British Police in the United Kingdom, on 8th May, 2007 ?

* On what day, in what place and at what time did you see an individual nearby the apartment from where MADELEINE McCANN disappeared (please locate it on a map or sketch it) ?

* Where were you at the time you saw that person ? Did anyone else see him too ?

* How would you describe him ? How was he dressed ?

* What were his actions ? At what point were you no longer able to see him ?

* What was his behaviour like ? Where was he looking at and how was he doing it ?

* Do you recognise him in the photo-fit made by the witness TASMIN SILENCE, which is enclosed to the Letter of Request ?

* Any further questions deemed useful, necessary or pertinent in view of the previous replies.

by Daisy 08.02.12 10:50

Stella wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:To qualify, nowhere in CT's statement does she say she was
there when her aunt was victim to an intruder. All we have to back that up is a
couple of dodgy mainstream media reports - probably courtesy of Clarence the
cross-eyed lion.

Please don’t
take my word for it, read the statement thoroughly & you will see.

Oh really Daisy, is that so? Then why does the Detective ask her these questions?

"You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw"

"You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace"

She could have denied this, but said nothing. At the very least she could have clarified and cleared up the questions asked of her, but she did not.

Now why would she refuse to clear up these two simple, VERY simple questions?

ETA the full piece of transcript

DC1485 The (inaudible) people. What I will do next Carole, is to show you a part of a map, okay, and I will ask you to outline some parts as well.

CT Outline.

DC1485 Yes.

CT Oh my God.

DC1485 You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw.

CT Mmm.

DC1485 You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace.

CT Mmm, mmm

Comment removed and being taken to the PM facility.

by Miraflores 08.02.12 13:49

I don't get this thread - why does it matter what Carole Tranmer did or did not do? Could someone enlighten me? PM me if necessary. It's being taken care of.

FWIW I think there could easily have been someone hanging around watching for an opportunity to burgle the apartments but that doesn't mean that they were an abductor and were responsible for Madeleine's disappearance.

by russiandoll 08.02.12 14:49

Hi there.
In recent weeks we had a new member who commented on CT and her RI on another thread. As this member seemed to have quite a lot to say I suggested he/she start a new topic.
I find many anomalies and bizarre things in the RI, whether significant or not I am unsure, just thought it deserved a look like Praia suggested.
We all have different opinions about the weight to be given to certain aspects of this case. It does not look like we are going off on a tangent with CT that is leading us away from more central and important issues. Just another part , maybe a small and insignificant one, of this very tangled web! I think I suggested elsewhere that the young man might have been furtive for other reasons than involved in an abduction......doing anything he should not be doing for example. without it being criminal activity.

by Guest 08.02.12 15:37

Carole Tranmer's sighting of a blonde individual leaving the garden gate of 5b, approx 6 hours before Madeleine is reported missing is quite significant. Matt Oldfield talks of a blonde man playing tennis with him that day. Is this the same blonde man that Carole saw, just trying to book a tennis game?

Her Rogatory Interview confirmed that she had given/signed off, the wrong date in her first statement of May 2007, where her arrival in Portugal was concerned. That statement has been witheld from the released files.

The photo-fit she gave to an individual posing as a Police officer, could never have reached the PJ. In her Rogatory Interview, they asked her for his name, could she get it from the appointment book. This must mean they have no idea who he is, or where that photo-fit has got to. Did she even give one in the first place? That is the question.

When asked about the man (burglar) she saw on her Aunt's terrace, twice she replied "Mmm", which means yes. Why didn't Mrs Fenn mention her niece being there at the same time? Carole Tranmer and her husband Christopher Tranmer travelled together by car that day on the 3rd of May 2007, so both should have been there when this happened, yet Mrs Fenn never mentioned it in her 20th August 2007 statement.

by Daisy 08.02.12 23:04

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Stella wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:To qualify, nowhere in CT's statement does she say she was
there when her aunt was victim to an intruder. All we have to back that up is a
couple of dodgy mainstream media reports - probably courtesy of Clarence the
cross-eyed lion.

Please don’t
take my word for it, read the statement thoroughly & you will see.

Oh really Daisy, is that so? Then why does the Detective ask her these questions?

"You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw"

"You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace"

She could have denied this, but said nothing. At the very least she could have clarified and cleared up the questions asked of her, but she did not.

Now why would she refuse to clear up these two simple, VERY simple questions?

ETA the full piece of transcript

DC1485 The (inaudible) people. What I will do next Carole, is to show you a part of a map, okay, and I will ask you to outline some parts as well.

CT Outline.

DC1485 Yes.

CT Oh my God.

DC1485 You spoke, you spoke of, of, of another man you saw.

CT Mmm.

DC1485 You saw him leaving your aunt's terrace.

CT Mmm, mmm

Comment removed and being taken to the PM facility.

Comment removed for a second time and poster banned for 24 hours to cool off for disruption.

by Guest 09.02.12 11:25

Carole Tranmer said in her Rogatory Interview, that she has never used the OC facilites, which means she will not be familiar with any of the staff working there. DC Messiah pinned her down with a timing for her sighting of a blonde man leaving the gate of 5b, to roughly between 3.30-4.30, the afternoon of the 3rd May. This timing coincides with another event that day.

From Matthew Oldfield's Rogatory Interview, talking about the evening of the 3rd May 2007:

Reply "It was men's social. So we went back up, back to, well I went back to the apartment, got the tennis gear and back onto the courts or back to the courts area, and the other guys went to get their stuff. I think Dave said that he'd been to the apartment, but I don't know that for definite, that's just something I think has come out, I didn't know anything about that. So we went, got our stuff and came back to the courts, which were already in play, because the social had already started. And Gerry was down playing on a court, I think there was only three of them, I think the coach, whose name I can't remember, the tennis coach, the blonde haired bloke, was playing to make up the numbers”.

In all probability, the blonde man that Carole Tranmer saw, was none other than the blonde tennis coach, checking to see if Matt was still coming to the mens social tennis. If Rachel was in the apartment, Matt said they always leave the garden patio door unlocked and they enter through that way during the day. The coach probably came to see if Matt was still up for a tennis game and as he left, he did not want to wake the baby and shut the gate quietly.

by Guest 09.02.12 11:36

DC Messiah was trying to find out here the description of this person from Carole Tranmer;

DC1485 And his T-shirt, you spoke to me about his T-shirt, did it have an inscription

CT No, it was a common shirt, without inscriptions, it was light blue in colour, or grey, it could have been grey, mmm.

DC1485 And the T-shirt, did it have buttons or was it simply something that went up to the neck

CT No, it went up to the neck and had sleeves, short sleeves, but not straps, of this type, just short sleeves.

DC1485 Yes, and was it loose-fitting

CT No it was not snug, it was not loose, it was comfortable.

DC1485 Did it fit him loosely

CT It was big but not by much.

DC1485 Yes.

CT It was simply common, the type of T-shirt one wears on Saturday.

DC1485 Yes, yes.

CT With inscriptions or anything in general, mmm.

DC And he was well-shaven

CT Yes, yes.

DC1485 Yes without a beard or did you notice anything else

CT No, nothing from what I remember, because he was very blonde.

by Guest 09.02.12 11:38

Do we have any pictures of the tennis staff at that time?

by Ollie 09.02.12 14:24

Stella wrote:rainbow-fairy, you are absolutely right. All statements 'are' important and they need to be compared with all the others we have, to spot any contradictions. Anyone who does not understand this, or even likes it, can find another forum to disrupt.

Would it be OK with you if I move your post to the Carole Tranmer thread please? The reason for this, is her sighting is very important and I think the man she saw was a tennis friend/coach of the T9 group. Probably trying to see if Matt was up for a game later on at teatime. If this is who he was, there was no suspicious man, as he was known to Matt Oldfield.

I don't think there was anything suspicious about this blonde haired man. I posted on the Carole Tranmer a while ago that the man could of been totally innocent - simply because he appeared to be closing the gate quietly - which to me means he knew the gate made a lot of noise, so he seems to of visited there on a number of occasions.

by Guest 09.02.12 14:48

@Ollie wrote:
Stella wrote:rainbow-fairy, you are absolutely right. All statements 'are' important and they need to be compared with all the others we have, to spot any contradictions. Anyone who does not understand this, or even likes it, can find another forum to disrupt.

Would it be OK with you if I move your post to the Carole Tranmer thread please? The reason for this, is her sighting is very important and I think the man she saw was a tennis friend/coach of the T9 group. Probably trying to see if Matt was up for a game later on at teatime. If this is who he was, there was no suspicious man, as he was known to Matt Oldfield.

I don't think there was anything suspicious about this blonde haired man. I posted on the Carole Tranmer a while ago that the man could of been totally innocent - simply because he appeared to be closing the gate quietly - which to me means he knew the gate made a lot of noise, so he seems to of visited there on a number of occasions.

Ollie, I have moved your post to the Carole Tranmer thread, as it relates to her statement.

Who was he, why didn't Matthew or Rachel mention him visiting their apartment hours before Madeleine went missing? All very strange.

by russiandoll 09.02.12 16:48

photo of Dan Stuk very blonde tennis coach can be found here, seems he worked at Greek MW resort at one time.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by jd 09.02.12 17:12

This might be relevant I don't know...except this story came out about 7 months later, they were Tapas bar guests on May 3rd. I think this story is planted but maybe they were trying to pick up on the blonde men sighting from other statemnents? murat seemed to have done a deal with kennedy by then

'Two British sisters gave a dramatic account of a pair of strangers watching the Ocean Club pool and tapas bar hours before Madeleine McCann vanished.
In an exclusive interview, Jayne Jensen and Annie Wiltshire told how they saw two blond men in their 30s, standing on the balcony of an empty apartment only a couple of doors away from the McCanns' flat in Praia da Luz........."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Guest 10.02.12 8:58

@russiandoll wrote: photo of Dan Stuk very blonde tennis coach can be found here, seems he worked at Greek MW resort at one time.

[url=http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=dan%20stuk&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.levertonwilliams.com%2Fcoaching_team%2Fdan_stuk&ei=hvgzT439OKGh0QXP9-i7Ag&usg=AFQjCNGofio1aqYFyKmAofyFhvH-PRYWNw&cad=rja

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=dan%20stuk&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCoQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.levertonwilliams.com%2Fcoaching_team%2Fdan_stuk&ei=hvgzT439OKGh0QXP9-i7Ag&usg=AFQjCNGofio1aqYFyKmAofyFhvH-PRYWNw&cad=rja[/quote[/url]]

Thank you russiandoll. I wonder if he was in Lemnos when Matthew, Dave Payne and Russell was there?

by **Tony Bennett** 23.09.15 8:56

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Russiandoll suggested a new topic.
I believe CT is worth another look because she was called for a Rog. Int.

I have reviewed this thread and as it's been well over 3 years since the last post, it's certainly overdue for an update.

The central issue, as with so many other witnesses in this case, is whether both Pamela Fenn and her niece, Carole Tranmer, are witnesses of truth.

In analysing their statements, the first thing to note is that it was not until 18 August that anybody had heard of them.

But on that date, there was a veritable blitz of coverage in Britain's mainstream press. If one analyses the coverage on that day, it is IMO as plain as a pikestaff that all the mainstream papers, tabloids and broadsheets, had received a briefing in the days before then from Clarence Mitchell.

There were four elements to the Pamela Fenn/Carole Tranmer story:

1. That Mrs Fenn - who lived in the apartmnt immediately above the McCanns - heard a young child crying and sobbing 'Daddy! Daddy!' for 75 continuous minutes between 10.30pm and 11.45pm on Tuesday 1 May
2. That at around 10.00pm on Thursday 3 May Mrs Fenn 'heard a commotion' in the apartment below, leaned over the balcony below, and spoke to Gerry McCann, who is alleged to have said 'a girl is missing'
3. That at around 3.30pm to 5.30pm, Carole Tranmer ;eaned over the balcony and saw a blond-haired man suspiciously opening and closing the gate to the McCanns' apartment, and
4. That some time before 28 April, a burglar had entered her apartment - while Carol Tranmer was there - and was chased off by the 81-year-old Mrs Fenn who 'tried to grab his ankle' as he 'jumped' through her window to escape from her clutches and (presumably) somehow landed safely 15 or more feet below and made off.

Here are two short excerpts from the accounts of the Mrs Fenn/Carole Tranmer evidence publish by the Sun and other papers on Saturday 18 August 2007:


A. She claims however, that a week previously she was the victim of an attempted robbery, which was not successful and neither was anything taken, thinking that the crying of the child could be linked to another attempted robbery in the residence.

B. The Portuguese cops are again under fire. The woman living in the apartment above the McCanns claimed she had not been spoken to by police until the British team arrived two weeks ago. Expat Pamela Fenn told them she disturbed a burglar at her apartment about three weeks before Maddie vanished. She is now to give a formal statement to Portuguese officers. A friend said: "She was surprised that neither the police nor the McCanns had approached her before”.

If you go on to trawl through all the other press coverage of the 'attempted burglary' incident, the first thing to note is that Mrs Fenn never reported this extraordinary event to the police at all.

Second, as you read all the reports, and try to find out when this remarkable attempted burglary happened, there are four different versions I have found so far:

* 'one week' before 28 April
* 'two weeks' before
* 'three weeks' before, and
* 'several weeks' before.

Then when you come to Carole Tranmer's evidence, despite the claims made in the press about her being present at this burglary, she doesn't mention it in her statement at all - and when she undergoes a Rogatory Interview by D.C. Messiah of Leicestershire Police on 18 April 2008, she doesn't mention it there either.

I shall contribute a bit more about the claims of Mrs Fenn and Carole Tranmer another day; meanwhile this is to re-open this thread and consider whether we have here, once again, another batch of fabricated evidence associated with people in the circle of Robert Murat and his mother.

Mrs Fenn was interviewed by the PJ on Monday 20 August, the day after two major articles by Lori Campbell on the McCann case in the Independent on Sunday and the Sunday Mirror.

The newspaper articles, based no doubt on press handouts from Clarence Mitchell, informed the press that she was to be interviewed on Monday. Mrs Fenn was later to complain bitterly about how this news leaked out and how she was badgered by hordes of journalists as a result.

So much for the McCann Team's much-vaunted - but bogus - respect for 'the secrecy of the investigation'.

The Fenn/Tranmer affair is another very murky matter, the more one goes into it, and a safe rule in approaching what they both say is IMO not to believe a single word of it - unless corroborated

by sallypelt 23.09.15 12:20

Without recapping on the topic, from memory, doesn't CT have some connections with Sandhurst? I believe her son worked there. This could be just another coincidence, but it's amazing how all these "witnesses" have connections to high places.

by **Tony Bennett** 23.09.15 12:25

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Without recapping on the topic, from memory, doesn't CT have some connections with Sandhurst? I believe her son worked there. This could be just another coincidence, but it's amazing how all these "witnesses" have connections to high places.

An even higher place than that!... @ sallypelt

See her Rogatory Interview with D.C. Messiah of Leicestershire Police, 18 April 2008

+++++++++++++++++++++++

DC1485 'You told me that you worked at Windsor Castle'

CT 'Windsor Castle.

DC1485 'Did you know the Queen'

CT 'Yes. I knew her.

DC1485 'Personally or'

CT' All, all, yes. The entire family, the whole royal family, yes.

DC1485 'How did that happen'

CT 'I worked in the Royal Collection and hummm... I was a personal assistant in the royal library and bookstore. I frequently encountered the royal family in private visits. There was also the Easter Court where the entire Buckingham Palace would usually come. Everyone had a very restricted calendar regarding their duties, thus if anything happened to the royal family, if they brought friends of visitors to Windsor, I had the opportunity to meet them and to show them around.

Dc1485 'And did you speak to the Queen or Philip'

CT 'Mmm, yes, yes.

by willowthewisp 23.09.15 12:35

The Leicestershire could have asked her,"was Phil there!"in 5a along with an MP's relative and children who suddenly vacated on the 4 May 2007 to Switzerland,but no records of the flight if a private plane used?

by **Tony Bennett** 23.09.15 13:03

re: 'The Crying Incident', allegedly on Tuesday 1 May 2007:

There is a very relevant statement in the PJ files about this from Paolo Jorge da Costa, of the GNR Police, probably a lot more reliable witness than most of the others in this case. His statement is below:

"Witness Statement

Date: 2007/05/16

Paolo Jorge Carvaihosa da Costa

Occupation: GNR Officer

He has been a GNR officer since 1996. He is a soldier and works at the Lagos GNR post.

On 3rd May when he was at home, he was contacted by the GNR post commander who asked him to go to P da L.

He arrived at the OC at 00.05 on 4th May having contacted his colleague Nelson Costa who informed him about the situation.

After having been informed he began to search the perimeter of the tourist complex. First he revised the perimeter alone and was later accompanied by Officer Pimentel. During his time on the scene he did not talk to anyone.

Neither did he enter the apartment from which Madeleine had disappeared. There many people at the scene but nobody particularly drew his attention.

When asked he said that he never saw Robert Murat in all the times he visited the scene.

He does remember however, that on a day he cannot recall, an individual who identified himself as Robert, saying that he was in P da L as a translator helping the PJ, phoned the Lagos post saying:

That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

+++++++++++++++

Let there be no doubt, first of all, that it was Robert Murat who 'phoned GNR officer Paolo da Costa. The conversation was presumably in Portuguese.

The question is: why does he say: "That some foreign women, who had already been interviewed by the police, had 'phoned him, telling him that there was a child crying in an apartment near to them"?

Mrs Fenn was adamant that the crying incident was on the Tuesday, though if you look through all the material on this, she must have got a bit muddled, as there are also references to it being 'the night before she disappeared'.

Now, where was Murat on Tuesday 1 May?

He was certainly back in Praia da Luz. He initially, when first questioned on 15 May, lied in 17 different respects about his movements on his first 4 days back in PdL. When re-interviewed on 10 & 11 July, he changed his story wholesale - but only because by then the police had checked his mobile 'phone antennae records.

On all three occasions he was interviewed by the PJ, he never once mentioned getting a 'phone call from Mrs Fenn, nor what he did after getting this alleged 'phone call.

I think there is a straightforward explanation for Murat's telephone call to GNR officer Paolo da Costa.

He was helping the McCann Team.

He was translating witness evidence, probably passing it on.

He was supplying the PJ with theories about what happened to Madeleine.

His mother was out in the town with a paste table asking people to give her information.

And he was caught by a police inspector searching through confidential documents in the Portimao station, upbraided for it, it was reported to Goncalo Amaral, and he was promptly relieved from his duties as a translator.

So he was clearly up to no good.

I suggest he made up this tale in an attempt to prove to the police that Madeleine was alive on Tuesday 1 May.

This also suggests that Mrs Fenn made some very early contact with the police to report this crying incident.

Mrs Fenn, of course, claimed that she had 'phoned Edna Glyn that night, and spoken about the crying.

It seems that for whatever reason, Edna Glyn has not substantiated that claim. Maybe the PJ spoke to her and she told them she knew nothing about it.

But honestly, if we are to believe Mrs Fenn's evidence, she calmly tells the police that after 11pm she 'phoned a friend, young child sobbing and screaming 'Daddy! Daddy' while they were talking, but that neither woman did anything about it until three quarters of an hour later, when the parents are said to have arrived back from the Tapas restaurant?

It is surely a fairy tale?

by skyrocket 23.09.15 13:38

Actually, Carole Tranmer was interviewed on 8 May 2007 by Leics Police - that statement has not been released. I would think it is highly probable that Mrs Fenn was also interviewed early on, going on all the interviews that the PJ did carry out. I'll have a dig and see if I can come up with anything.

CR 2 121 LINK Questions from the Letter of Request:

XV - Interview to the witness CAROLE ANNE TRAMMER, PAMELA FENN'S niece, who lives in the apartment above the one used by the McCANN family, to be identified by the Requested Authority. She should be asked the following questions :

* Do you confirm your Statements, taken by the British Police in the United Kingdom, on 8th May, 2007 ?

by sallypelt 23.09.15 13:40

Where is Carole Tramner's husband's statement? After all, he was there, too.

There appears to be a lot of CT's statements missing from the PJ files.

Statements missing from UK holiday makers:

Stephen Carpenter

Original statement taken on 17th May 2007 by a UK Police Officer:

Stephen Carpenter original

Rajinder Balu.

Rogatory statement refers to ?original statements?:

Rajinder Balu. original

Neil Berry

Rogatory statement refers to ?original statement?:

Neil Berry original

Carolyn Carpenter

Rogatory interview not included in DVD:

2. Page 18 Interview Carolyn Elizabeth CARPENTER, she was interviewed on 21st April 2008, the interview was recorded on DVD, please see enclosed 1 copy of the transcript, 1 copy of the DVD, 1 copy of her statement and a copy of the
Detective's statement evidencing the interview.

Carolyn Carpenter page 18

Carole Tranmer

Original interview and identikit not included in DVD:

In the interview of Carole Tranmer on 22nd April 2008, as recorded on DVD, reference is made more than once to a statement given by her to Leics police on 8 May 2007, and to an identikit that was created with the assistance of a police officer from Reading.

Carole Tranmer transcript

Other documents mising from the DVD:

11. Page 57 (PJ RefXVII) Request to provide Madeleine McCann's dental records. A copy of the dental records was obtained on 15th May 2008, and is enclosed. A statement producing these as an exhibit is also enclosed.

provide Madeleine McCann's dental records

112 OC workers were questioned, amongst them some of English nationality and with the use of interpreters.

In addition, formal questioning was made of English employees most involved, from the MW company -?15 child care workers and two tennis instructors. Also eleven informal questionings with employees who carry out other types of activity. In total, 28 persons. Due to their absence, three individuals were not questioned, Euan Crosby, Steven Jackson and Emma Knights respectively.

Total of individuals questioned was 143, 15 of which were names corresponding to child care workers or "nannies".
Mark Warner Staff

by sallypelt 23.09.15 13:53

This is an extract from Carole-Anne Tramner's statement to the Leicester Police, on 22.4.2008:

CT'After arriving home, Sunday morning we woke and read the Times Sunday paper. There we saw my aunt's apartment and the notice about the missing child.*** I did not want to believe it and for this reason telephoned her and said: 'Did you see'' to which she responded 'It was been an inferno, terrible since both of you left'. After this I spoke with my cousin, whose son is at Sandhurst and told her 'What do you think we should do, do you think'' because at this time I remembered that I had seen something. It did not come to me right away but afterwards I told my husband 'Well, I saw that funny situation, you know'that type of behavior of the individual, with a sneaky aspect' to which he responded, 'Well you should talk to the police', and I said 'Yes, but it is likely that it has nothing to do with it'. After, we thought a bit more about it and I telephoned my cousin who is at Sandhurst and he told me that I should call the police and tell them. I did exactly this. I telephoned the Windsor police and told them, more or less, what I had told him and to my family. They told me that they would give me a number to call the Leicester police. We passed by the Windsor squadron but it is clear that no one was there so I called the Leciester police and told them basically what I had seen. They told me, well'thank you, we are going to get in touch with you, and after that everything happened. This is what happened, more or less.

*** So, it wasn't until they "arrived home" and read it in the Times Newspaper, on the SUNDAY, that CT learned about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?? The whole world knew about the child's disappearance by the Saturday. So, Mrs Fenn never phoned her niece to tell her about Madeleine going missing?

Stop feeding us BS.

by **Tony Bennett** 23.09.15 14:25

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:This is an extract from Carole-Anne Tramner's statement to the Leicester Police, on 22.4.2008:

CT'After arriving home, Sunday morning we woke and read the Times Sunday paper. There we saw my aunt's apartment and the notice about the missing child.*** I did not want to believe it and for this reason telephoned her and said: 'Did you see'' to which she responded 'It was been an inferno, terrible since both of you left'. After this I spoke with my cousin, whose son is at Sandhurst and told her 'What do you think we should do, do you think'' because at this time I remembered that I had seen something. It did not come to me right away but afterwards I told my husband 'Well, I saw that funny situation, you know'that type of behavior of the individual, with a sneaky aspect' to which he responded, 'Well you should talk to the police', and I said 'Yes, but it is likely that it has nothing to do with it'. After, we thought a bit more about it and I telephoned my cousin who is at Sandhurst and he told me that I should call the police and tell them. I did exactly this. I telephoned the Windsor police and told them, more or less, what I had told him and to my family. They told me that they would give me a number to call the Leicester police. We passed by the Windsor squadron but it is clear that no one was there so I called the Leciester police and told them basically what I had seen. They told me, well'thank you, we are going to get in touch with you, and after that everything happened. This is what happened, more or less.

*** So, it wasn't until they "arrived home" and read it in the Times Newspaper, on the SUNDAY, that CT learned about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann?? The whole world knew about the child's disappearance by the Saturday. So, Mrs Fenn never phoned her niece to tell her about Madeleine going missing?

Stop feeding us BS.

@ sallypelt Well done, thanks for picking that out.

It is a bit reminiscent of Martin Smith being jolted into life by his son Peter's "Was I dreaming?" moment.

I think IIRC Carole Tranmer says she was in Praia da Luz the very same week that the McCanns were there.

Have a careful look at what she says about her stay, the reasons for it, and about her alleged visits to Mrs Fenn on both the Sunday and Thursday (in the Rogatory Statement - it takes a while to digest on a first read through) and see what you make of it.

Her 'balcony photograph' could have been taken anywhen.

Given what you have posted above, I am not convinced that she was in Portugal at all that week.

And the claim that she witnessed her 81-year-old aunt diving to grab the burglar by the ankle as he leapt out of the window - with a 15-foot drop in front of him - gives me a real good belly-laugh every time I think about it

by **Verdi** 23.09.15 15:36

Just passing through at the momnent so can't elaborate - I remembered this from Pamela Fenn's witness statement of 20th August 2007..

As soon as the parents entered the child stopped crying.

That night she contacted a friend called XXXX XXXX, who also lives in Praia da Luz, after 23H00, telling her about the situation, who was not surprised at the childs crying.

She did not have anything to report for the 2nd May, because she was only home at night.

On the 3rd May she received a visit from her niece CAROLE during the morning, who said that when she was on her terrace she saw a male individual looking into the McCANN apartment, a situation which has been told to the police, her cousin even made a photo fit.