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The hidden basement at Casa Liliana.

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Re: The hidden basement at Casa Liliana.

Post by pennylane on 24.01.12 11:56

@tigger wrote:alyoyo wrote: quote

Willo, I agree with you. If they were so professional in their cover-up plot and media spin, making use also of their influential connections to their advantage, why were their abduction plot so amateurish and shoddy? Either they are cunningly clever or they are not, doctors or otherwise make no difference.

If they are so well organised in one area it would mean they are capable of being systematically organised, so why the diabolically weak abduction plot when that is more important to get it watertight?

I believe Maddie's demise is accidental but the cover up is premeditated, hence the weak abduction plot but professional and strong cover up.
unquote.

Surely the part in bold is impossible? If the death was accidental no one could know exactly when, where and how that accident would occur. So surely it follows that preparing an elaborate cover up for something you didn't know was going to happen is not an option?
If you did know an accident was going to happen it's no longer an accident.


It wasn't an "elaborate cover up" though was it? More like a too late, after the horse has bolted, attempt at one. Just as we saw with the FSS U-Turn following the original damaging results, and the British blood and cadaver dogs findings.

A tad tardy for an elaborate cover up, but seemingly determined nonetheless (imo)

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Re: The hidden basement at Casa Liliana.

Post by tigger on 24.01.12 12:11

@pennylane wrote:
@tigger wrote:alyoyo wrote: quote

Willo, I agree with you. If they were so professional in their cover-up plot and media spin, making use also of their influential connections to their advantage, why were their abduction plot so amateurish and shoddy? Either they are cunningly clever or they are not, doctors or otherwise make no difference.

If they are so well organised in one area it would mean they are capable of being systematically organised, so why the diabolically weak abduction plot when that is more important to get it watertight?

I believe Maddie's demise is accidental but the cover up is premeditated, hence the weak abduction plot but professional and strong cover up.
unquote.



Surely the part in bold is impossible? If the death was accidental no one could know exactly when, where and how that accident would occur. So surely it follows that preparing an elaborate cover up for something you didn't know was going to happen is not an option?
If you did know an accident was going to happen it's no longer an accident.


It wasn't an "elaborate cover up" though was it? More like a too late, after the horse has bolted, attempt at one. Just as we saw with the FSS U-Turn following the original damaging results, and the British blood and cadaver dogs findings.

A tad tardy for an elaborate cover up, but seemingly determined nonetheless (imo)

Well, I'm still for the Delboy plan well in advance. Sure that Maddie had something wrong with her, perhaps even mentally, because in some of the very early photographs she almost looks a Downs' child.
Marketing plan with professional help, IT help all in advance, I'm sure.
But someone pressed the panic button - could be the phone call they made to the Embassy when? 3rd even I think.
Pennylane, you're right about the FSS etc. but up till then it had gone swimmingly, looked as if Gerry might one day be MP, ambassador for lost children and so on.
I think the results from Eddie and Keela - especially the car - came out of a blue sky. They ( the professional cover uppers) must have felt they were safe, why would the police search a villa and a car where Maddie had never been?
The cover up for August and September was certainly done in a hurry, but nothing got in the papers did it? Nothing about GB visiting both the LP and FSS and both having unaccountable memory loss thereafter.

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Re: The hidden basement at Casa Liliana.

Post by Ross on 24.01.12 12:14

@tigger wrote:But surely the point is that the media spin and the cover up is nothing to do with them? The people in charge of that would like nothing better than that the McCanns would disappear off the face of the earth.

This is a very important aspect of the whole affair. We're not just talking about some publicity, we're talking about unprecedented levels of it - Madeleine's face being projected on Marble Arch, the England football team lining up before a game wearing t-shirts etc etc. Didn't McCann say something along the lines of 'our job is to get Madeleine's face everywhere in the world'? The question is 'why'? We know that for some reason the British state was at hand immediately. If it was a 'matter of national security' then it is safe to assume that along with the overt FO officials there would have been at least one covert one, a handler. If the objective was a straightforward cover-up they would have been told to shut up and only speak when they were told to, and with the full compliance of the British media they would have soon drifted out of public consciousness. The conventional explanation for the publicity blitz is the fund, but these people only had to snap their fingers and a billionaire was at hand, and if the black state was on board finding a few million quid to make them go away would be a trivial matter. The problem is that to address this anomaly requires going off the track and into the deep undergrowth.

Gillyspot Yesterday at 10:30 pm

I simply think Madeleine died earlier on in the week and for some reason they chose to "stage" an "abduction"
I agree with this.

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Re: The hidden basement at Casa Liliana.

Post by kikoraton on 26.01.12 17:41

Gillyspot Yesterday at 10:30 pm

I simply think Madeleine died earlier on in the week and for some reason they chose to "stage" an "abduction"

Sorry, Gillyspot, I can't agree with that. For the reason that I'm sure a substitute was signed into the creche from the very first morning, 29 April. The sub's parents had to be aware and certainly present (a 3-yr-old wouldn't have gone off on holiday without them). And Robert Naylor who allowed Gerry to sign in his daughter ( a friend of the substitute) must have been in the know for some time before April 2007.
"Died earlier in the week" I can accept and have been claiming for a long time. (Altho' we were discussing last week whether Maddie might have been whisked away to a hiding-place without going near to 5A, and died later in the holiday thus leaving cadaver odour when laid out in 5A. That's possible, though we agreed it was unlikely).
Taking all that into account, I can't accept that they simply said "whoops, she's gone,let's think about what we can do about it."

Sorry if I've misunderstood you, Gillyspot, but you made it sound as though the abduction arrived as an afterthought..
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Re: The hidden basement at Casa Liliana.

Post by pennylane on 26.01.12 19:33

@kikoraton wrote:Gillyspot Yesterday at 10:30 pm

I simply think Madeleine died earlier on in the week and for some reason they chose to "stage" an "abduction"

Sorry, Gillyspot, I can't agree with that. For the reason that I'm sure a substitute was signed into the creche from the very first morning, 29 April. The sub's parents had to be aware and certainly present (a 3-yr-old wouldn't have gone off on holiday without them). And Robert Naylor who allowed Gerry to sign in his daughter ( a friend of the substitute) must have been in the know for some time before April 2007.
"Died earlier in the week" I can accept and have been claiming for a long time. (Altho' we were discussing last week whether Maddie might have been whisked away to a hiding-place without going near to 5A, and died later in the holiday thus leaving cadaver odour when laid out in 5A. That's possible, though we agreed it was unlikely).
Taking all that into account, I can't accept that they simply said "whoops, she's gone,let's think about what we can do about it."

Sorry if I've misunderstood you, Gillyspot, but you made it sound as though the abduction arrived as an afterthought..

Hi kikoraton

Saying "whoops she's gone, let's think about what we can do about it" is precisely what people that are facing a lengthy jail term do all the time!

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Re: The hidden basement at Casa Liliana.

Post by Ollie on 26.01.12 22:46

The abduction scenario was badly put together, but I think this is because they thought they would be believed, after all they were two respectable doctors as was most of the Tapas 7. They couldn't plant evidence eg dna etc in the apartment to possibly identify an abductor, it would of been impossible. No, just leave the door unlocked (supposedly) and open the window and shout abduction. What the McCanns and Tapas 7 had was contacts, that was all they needed. Contact the media, people in high places and get their abduction story out quick. What messed it up was the PJ not believing them.

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