The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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5-2-3-1 Luz Key ?? - Page 4 Mm11

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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

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Post by aiyoyo 13.07.13 14:19

i cant wait for the case to be solved then for the author to tell us about the code.  

Maybe the answer is a simple one - like Gerry's code number to a locker in Luz where he stored certain skycolor (on good clear day) bag!
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Post by joyce1938 13.07.13 17:26

What with this being another mystery for us all to ponder over,is it just to keep us busy ?It possably means nothing at all,why do we think it does ?joyce1938
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Post by katluke 11.08.13 19:42

There is another possibility I suppose, as Gerry is so smugly convinced that a body will never be found. What better place to conceal and dispose of it than inside ANOTHER coffin that was buried in Luz shortly afterwards? Relatively easy to fit inside with another corpse and then no-one would ever find it. Maybe the 5231 is a reference to a funeral. Would be interesting to know how many took place in Luz in May 2007. Kate and Gerry spent a lot of time in and around that church didn,t they, and Kate goes back to it rather frequently so I believe?
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Post by sharonl 18.05.14 9:06

Probably of no relevance whatsoever but I just picked this up from a new thread - so, no stone unturned I am posting it here.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/INSPECTION_SITES.htm

Pages 2100-2102

Official record of the canine inspection at 23h20 on 2 August 2007 at the Municipal Pavilion of Lagos, [situated in] Lagos.

The ten participants are indicated as being five PJ Chief Inspectors (2)/Inspectors (3); The UK NPIA officer (Harrison); the UK dog handler (Grime); the Portuguese-speaking officer from Scotland Yard (Freitas); and the two UK English Springer spaniels - Eddy and Kila.


five PJ Chief Inspectors
(2)/Inspectors
(3); The UK NPIA officer (Harrison); the UK dog handler (Grime); the Portuguese-speaking officer from Scotland Yard (Freitas);

Then there are the dogs

ok, the last element is two not one, but is he referring to this report and suggesting that the group of ten are spot on?
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Post by bobbin 18.05.14 9:22

sharonl wrote:Probably of no relevance whatsoever but I just picked this up from a new thread - so, no stone unturned I am posting it here.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/INSPECTION_SITES.htm                                  

Pages 2100-2102

Official record of the canine inspection at 23h20 on 2 August 2007 at the Municipal Pavilion of Lagos, [situated in] Lagos.

The ten participants are indicated as being five PJ Chief Inspectors (2)/Inspectors (3); The UK NPIA officer (Harrison); the UK dog handler (Grime); the Portuguese-speaking officer from Scotland Yard (Freitas); and the two UK English Springer spaniels - Eddy and Kila.


five PJ Chief Inspectors
(2)/Inspectors
(3); The UK NPIA officer (Harrison); the UK dog handler (Grime); the Portuguese-speaking officer from Scotland Yard (Freitas);

Then there are the dogs

ok, the last element is two not one, but is he referring to this report and suggesting that the group of ten are spot on?

Unless the last element is the ONE CADAVOUR dog. This is the important one.
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Post by Shhh 18.05.14 21:58

Any good for fridge info? A Hubbard owned apt. Was this the one the mccanns moved to?  Look at "kitchen"

On with the search...


http://www.praiadaluzapartment.com
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Post by Snifferdog 19.05.14 7:07

Strange that one would say "new fridge" in an apartment letting advert. Is it usual to do so in Praia da Luz? Was the old one stinky or so bad that the letting agents felt they had to mention the new fridge specifically, to entice previous tenants who were perhaps put off with letting the apartment again:gm:due to the condition of said fridge.

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Post by Guest 19.05.14 7:49

Just snipped the below from a poster who posted on Page 4 of this thread.

'Goncalo says immediately it was a matter of state security, soon after the first Leics Police arrived , MI6 had them all sign the official secrets act'.


Is the above actually true?

MI6 made them all sign the official secrets act...? Really..?

Not heard that one before.
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Post by Hicks 19.05.14 11:09

Andrew77R wrote:Just snipped the below from a poster who posted on Page 4 of this thread.

'Goncalo says immediately it was a matter of state security, soon after the first Leics Police arrived , MI6 had them all sign the official secrets act'.


Is the above actually true?

MI6 made them all sign the official secrets act...? Really..?

Not heard that one before.
Hi Andrew77R, it is mentioned in this link.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id233.html.
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Post by Guest 19.05.14 11:34

Hicks wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Just snipped the below from a poster who posted on Page 4 of this thread.

'Goncalo says immediately it was a matter of state security, soon after the first Leics Police arrived , MI6 had them all sign the official secrets act'.


Is the above actually true?

MI6 made them all sign the official secrets act...? Really..?

Not heard that one before.
Hi Andrew77R, it is mentioned in this link.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id233.html.
Thanks Hicks.

Can only see this bit which relates to it.

Snipped:

During the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the British police were "invited" to sign a document of confidentiality that prevents them today from talking about what happened in Portugal or in England, a procedure that is not normal for police in England. "It is normal in cases with the secret services, and that document is signed right at the beginning. Now with normal police, undertaking a criminal investigation, that doesn't happen," said Amaral.


Doesn't really give a lot away...


After reading that other post i envisaged MI6 turning up stealth style to force all concerned to sign then vanish into the sunset. 
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Post by Hicks 19.05.14 11:43

Andrew77R wrote:
Hicks wrote:
Andrew77R wrote:Just snipped the below from a poster who posted on Page 4 of this thread.

'Goncalo says immediately it was a matter of state security, soon after the first Leics Police arrived , MI6 had them all sign the official secrets act'.


Is the above actually true?

MI6 made them all sign the official secrets act...? Really..?

Not heard that one before.
Hi Andrew77R, it is mentioned in this link.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id233.html.
Thanks Hicks.

Can only see this bit which relates to it.

Snipped:

During the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the British police were "invited" to sign a document of confidentiality that prevents them today from talking about what happened in Portugal or in England, a procedure that is not normal for police in England. "It is normal in cases with the secret services, and that document is signed right at the beginning. Now with normal police, undertaking a criminal investigation, that doesn't happen," said Amaral.


Doesn't really give a lot away...


After reading that other post i envisaged MI6 turning up stealth style to force all concerned to sign then vanish into the sunset. 
It seems quite clear to me that the UK police were 'made' to sign. Mr Amaral is perhaps being a little sarcastic when he says that they were 'invited' to do so.  It surely isn't normal practice in any criminal investigation for that to happen.
PeterMac may be able to help on this one.

The other clue? A government spin doctor despatched to speak on behalf of the McCann's lest they 'drop' themselves in it.
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Post by j.rob 19.05.14 12:09

russiandoll wrote:
Stewie wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:I have just been inflicting Katey's book on myself.  it s a barrister from IFLG (un-named by her) who actually apparently didn't use the word "responsible" but said their childcare was "well within the bounds of reasonable parenting"  This was after he apparently had seen how close the Tapas bar was to 5A.  Clearly he can see through walls and bushes (and an opaque screen) for him to say that. It would also be interesting whether the McCanns told him the doors were unlocked (or locked).


I was wondering if it's the unlocked doors that make the difference as to whether it is seen as acceptable or not... I'm surprised the MW resorts offer child listening services as it must be a legal minefield and surely is legitimising parents leaving children alone in their apartments. Seems the only reason it's not offered at ocean club luz anymore is that the resort is spread out - so it's more inconvenient for the listeners rather than being unacceptable parenting..

So must be legally ok for MW to offer this service but probably on the basis that the parents accept the risk , and I would bet that as long as the apartment is locked but the checkers have keys to enter should they hear anything untoward.  So I bet they never said to IFLG that the apartment was unlocked.. indeed if that conversation ever did happen..


 I doubt that it would be considered reasonable or legally ok to leave children locked in a place with no means of escape in case of a fire. It would be interesting to know MW's policy on child care arrangements at night where there is a listening service, it must be documented somewhere.
As for that bit of rubbish in the book about being within the bounds of reasonable parenting, I would have thought a social worker and not a solicitor was qualified to make that judgment.


I went on a Mark Warner holiday with my family and young children once. This was many years ago so things maybe different now. But the 'baby-listening' (which pretty much everyone with young children seemed to use) consisted of a nanny (or perhaps several nannies, I don't know) patrolling outside the corridors of the hotel. It was a reasonably large hotel on probably six floors. 

The arrangement was, you got your children to sleep and then went down to adult (and older children) dinner at 8pm. Even though ours were only in the 3-6 age group, it was still a struggle to get them to sleep by 8pm when the adult dinner was served, so we nearly always came down late and missed the starters. And that was with both of us spending a good hour or more getting the children ready for bed - bath, reading etc.

You left the door closed but unlocked. The nanny or nannies walked along the corridors and if they heard crying (or a noise I guess) coming from the room, they went in and either comforted the child or, if they couldn't or were worried or something, they brought the child down to you while you were having dinner.

This happened once with one of ours who had had a nose-bleed. 

At the time, it seemed like a reasonably safe arrangement and most people seemed to use it. But, looking back on it,  you could see it was by no means perfect. I would imagine some children might be scared of being left in a hotel room on their own. Realistically, the nanny cannot be outside every door at every moment. Plus an accident could still happen inside without the nanny knowing. 

Certainly, from the point of view of a potential abductor (but this was not something we thought was a risk) it would have been a paradise. Hotel security was pretty lax (as it often is) with people coming and going. There were rear entrances to the hotel via bars etc where someone could have entered the public rooms and proceeded upstairs, let themselves into a room and, say, handed a child down to an accomplice on the balcony. 

Unlike the Ocean Club resort, though, it would not have been so usual to see people walking around outside with sleeping children. As there was no night creche and most people seemed to use the baby-listening. I think it would have looked odd if someone had walked out of reception with a sleeping child in their arms as staff would wonder where they were going.

It makes you wonder about the McCann and their friends choice of resort, really.

As far as I am aware hotels have often offered a baby-listening service, so guess the MW system was not that different.
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Post by Sparklehorse 19.05.14 12:19

That part about the British Police being invited to sign a document of confidentiality made me think it might have been to do with the Portuguese Judicial Secrecy not MI6.
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Post by Guest 19.05.14 12:47

Hicks wrote:

It seems quite clear to me that the UK police were 'made' to sign. Mr Amaral is perhaps being a little sarcastic when he says that they were 'invited' to do so.  It surely isn't normal practice in any criminal investigation for that to happen.
PeterMac may be able to help on this one.

The other clue? A government spin doctor despatched to speak on behalf of the McCann's lest they 'drop' themselves in it.
Would like to have been a fly on the wall when they were 'made' to sign these documents then.

No, certainly isn't normal practice at all. 

It just gives even more fuel to the theory that something or SOMEONE is being protected at all costs. 

By that i don't mean a couple of average joe docs and there mates.
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Post by Hicks 19.05.14 12:53

Sparklehorse wrote:That part about the British Police being invited  to sign a document of confidentiality made me think it might have been to do with the Portuguese Judicial Secrecy not MI6.
Wouldn't Mr Amaral have known that already if it was common practice?

The McCann's had ex-MI5 agents working for them, the same people who supressed the Smith sighting E-Fit for five years.


http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/more-bizarre-twists-in-mccann-saga.html
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Post by Sparklehorse 19.05.14 13:57

Hicks wrote:
Sparklehorse wrote:That part about the British Police being invited  to sign a document of confidentiality made me think it might have been to do with the Portuguese Judicial Secrecy not MI6.
Wouldn't Mr Amaral have known that already if it was common practice?

The McCann's had ex-MI5 agents working for them, the same people who supressed the Smith sighting E-Fit for five years.


http://algarvenewswatch.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/more-bizarre-twists-in-mccann-saga.html


Didn't pick up That Mr Amaral was surprised by this from the McCann files link. duh 
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Post by j.rob 19.05.14 15:14

Given the profile of a great many of the guests at the Ocean Club that week, if there was some sort of sensitive medical/pharmaceutical/NHS conference going on that week is it not possible that M15 were already there? (Enigma Diagnostics, for instance, is based at Porton Down in Salisbury. Due to the secretive nature of what goes on there, the conference would have been kept top secret, for instance. 

From Wilki:
Porton Down is a United Kingdom government military science park. It is situated slightly northeast of Porton near Salisbury in Wiltshire, England. To the northwest lies the MoD Boscombe Down test range facility which is operated by QinetiQ. On maps, Porton Down has a "Danger Area" surrounding the entire complex.[1]
It is home to the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory, known as Dstl. Dstl is an Executive Agency of the Ministry of Defence (MoD), and the site is believed to be one of the United Kingdom's most sensitive and secretive government facilities for military research, including CBRN defence. The Dstl site occupies 7,000 acres (28 km²).[2]
It is also home to the Health Protection Agency's Centre for Emergency Preparedness and Response as well as a small science park which includes companies such as Tetricus Bioscience[3] and Ploughshare Innovations.[4]
Weren't there even some medics there from the Salisbury area?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porton_Down

Then when you consider Gerry McCann's role as Government advisor with regard to health issues surrounding nuclear reactor and the fact that later that very month in May 2007 there was an announcement that the UK was backing a new generation of nuclear reactors, there are some sensitive issues going on at around that time. 
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11913-uk-backs-new-generation-of-nuclear-reactors.html#.U3oQftJdXTo
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Post by j.rob 19.05.14 17:23

Just wondering if there is any link at all between Professor David Salisbury who is Director of Immunization at the UK's Department of Health (and thus hugely influential in the UK public health and Health Protection Agency, HPA) and Mark Salisbury who is Operations Manager at Horizen Nuclear Power and Ben Salisbury who is a Project Manager at EDF Energy?

http://www.csap.cam.ac.uk/network/david-salisbury/

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/mark-salisbury/19/172/2a0

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/ben-salisbury/10/336/1
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Post by Guest 19.05.14 20:41

Just going back to this 'British Police were made to sign a document of confidentiality agreement'...

When was this...?

Just read a very short and sweet statement from Police officer Caroline Burrows of the Leicestershire Police.

Copied and pasted:

LEICESTERSHIRE POLICE FORCE

Witness Statement by Caroline Burrows

Occupation: Police Officer

This statement, consisting of two pages, each signed by me, is true to the best of my knowledge and belief 

Date: 23 April 2008
Signature: 

I am police inspector 4186 Caroline Burrows of the Leicestershire police, currently based in the criminal unit.

In 2007 in relation to the Portuguese investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, I was sent to Portugal in the official role of liaison officer to the McCann family. 

According to the letters of request from the Portuguese police, I was asked to respond to the following question: 

Was anything said or done by Kate or Gerry McCann in your presence or during your contacts that may have raised any suspicion that they had knowledge of what happened to Madeleine, besides the circumstances described to the Portuguese investigators? 

My response to the above question is: No. 

This statement was made by me and is true in accordance with my understanding.

  
So she clearly signed this confidential agreement then before she answered...
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Post by aniandr 07.06.14 23:39

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_tumbler_lock



That Would be simple.


The change key (5 2 pins) and a Master key (3 1 pins)? 


Mccanns were given a change key to the church? 


Pin tumbler locks are opened by a little simple puzzel also - it Would make sense to Solve the books little puzzel simpel as well. The luz key is referring to - Well - a set of keys. 


A change and a master key. 


Put little crosses on euromillions....Where Would you find crosses and find millions? On a treasure map - and under the crosses Would in most stories be a chest. And for that chest you would need the a key. 


So he might be pointing to the church. It might not tell everything and Solve the intire mystery  - but at least it Would Solve at Big part of it.


Just a thought :-)
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Post by Masterblaster 08.06.14 10:02

5, 2, 3, 1 is the sign of the cross on a key-pad.

Haven't been back through all the posts, it may have been mentioned before.
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Post by MrsC 08.06.14 10:06

Masterblaster wrote:5, 2, 3, 1 is the sign of the cross on a key-pad.

Haven't been back through all the posts, it may have been mentioned before.

I must be missing something - how so?  blushing1 

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Post by Guest 08.06.14 10:28

aniandr wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pin_tumbler_lock



That Would be simple.


The change key (5 2 pins) and a Master key (3 1 pins)? 


Mccanns were given a change key to the church? 


Pin tumbler locks are opened by a little simple puzzel also - it Would make sense to Solve the books little puzzel simpel as well. The luz key is referring to - Well - a set of keys. 


A change and a master key. 


Put little crosses on euromillions....Where Would you find crosses and find millions? On a treasure map - and under the crosses Would in most stories be a chest. And for that chest you would need the a key. 


So he might be pointing to the church. It might not tell everything and Solve the intire mystery  - but at least it Would Solve at Big part of it.


Just a thought :-)

I think the 'Luz Key' could literally be the Church Key too. The 1 key they held, and the key to the mystery being in Praia da Luz.

5 PRAIA, 2 DA, 3 LUZ, 1 the Key.

Also, in older times the holy cross was symbolized by a T, as well as the more common +. The T representing Jesus' outstretched arms and his body and legs below. This would reflect the pattern on a number pad, but it's a bit tenuous!  smilie 
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Post by Hicks 08.06.14 10:29

MrsC wrote:
Masterblaster wrote:5, 2, 3, 1 is the sign of the cross on a key-pad.

Haven't been back through all the posts, it may have been mentioned before.

I must be missing something - how so?  blushing1 

5-2-3-1 Luz Key ?? - Page 4 9k=
Apologies if this is nonsense (I'm not very religious) but when priests cross themselves isn't it in that order?

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Post by canada12 08.06.14 10:43

Catholic sign of the cross is Forehead, center breast, left shoulder, right shoulder.
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