Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

by **PeterMac** 17.01.12 10:04

Praia wrote:
Off topic but I followed every word of McCann's blog and he did indeed mention taking a broken fridge to the local tip. People here decades don't know where the main tip is, never mind a first time visitor!
IF the fridge had needed replacing the landlord or management company takes care of it. The local shop's will deliver new one and take the broken one away. I don't know what McCann removed but it was not a fridge....

Like many of us we "remember" the blog about the "fridge to the tip" but cannot find it.
Do you have proof, print out, a screen shot, or are you also relying purely on your memory ?
Some time ago we came to the conclusion it might have been an internet myth.

by Praia 17.01.12 12:42

PeterMac, I have no physical proof but as the saga unfolded during the Summer I read every word printed on the subject, every word. I was especially focused on the blogs. It was our only reliable source of what TM wanted us to know, a primary source. I was sure TM were conveying info. as needed to those in the know. I have doubts as to whether Gm wrote all of it. Anyway TM authorised it. To look out the window each day and know Madeleine could be out there buried and the world was eating up farce, drove me on, still does. I want her to have what we all deserve at the end of life, peace.

So the day GM wrote that I was gobsmacked, I immediately asked friends about it. They too knew it sounded so farfetched, it just would not happen. We looked into where the rubbish went, the local tipping point if you like, and knew from experience, what happened with local white good returns. I even checked with a local who has to deal with broken white goods in rental apt's. They were incredulous.

When comments began to fly on the forum, not sure if still Mirror then or onto 3A's, it was whoosh clucked. But I am sure it had fulfilled it's purpose and the message was received and understood.

Today I have checked with my friends, they clearly remember the above and confirm. That is all I can do, I have no physical proof.

by **PeterMac** 17.01.12 17:39

Praia wrote:
Today I have checked with my friends, they clearly remember the above and confirm. That is all I can do, I have no physical proof.

Many thanks. Like you I have a very definite recollection, but after 4 constant years of blogs it is difficult to sort out what was written, and what was thought to have been written: what was said and what was thought to have been said; who said what, and who was thought to have said what.
I also have the feeling that it was written and then whooshed, before Pamalam started noting the retrospective changes in the blogs and providing screen shots.
But someone out there will have it saved, either deliberately or in their cache memory - IF it was said !

by Advocatus 17.01.12 19:33

PeterMac wrote:
Praia wrote:
Today I have checked with my friends, they clearly remember the above and confirm. That is all I can do, I have no physical proof.
Many thanks. Like you I have a very definite recollection, but after 4 constant years of blogs it is difficult to sort out what was written, and what was thought to have been written: what was said and what was thought to have been said; who said what, and who was thought to have said what.
I also have the feeling that it was written and then whooshed, before Pamalam started noting the retrospective changes in the blogs and providing screen shots.
But someone out there will have it saved, either deliberately or in their cache memory - IF it was said !

I have read about the fridge on a bunch of forums, David Icke, Godlike etc etc

That is why in the last ten years I have learned to cut and paste in anythings that looks like it may later be sanitised by intel types, 404d, this link does not exist

These 'mistakes' usuly occur within the first 24 hrs of a breaking story. The intel comes along Nd either 404s or rewrites the original posts, but in an ongoing blog it can happen any time

(That is why Pat Brown keeps telling the pair of them to shut up already!)

They then whoosh the Internet archive wayback machine cache

And all other caches they can find, they have custom top secret web and email text voice crawler/spider software thar can do the most amazing digging on their cray+ supercomputers

I always got lambasted by mods for wasting bandwidth, pasting in full articles with date time stamps, which is really poppycock, especially now

To an expert at gchq they could make an average citizen disappear in no time at all

Back to the fridge tipping, IMHO it is not a forum myth

by Guest 17.01.12 19:43

Advocatus wrote:

I have read about the fridge on a bunch of forums, David Icke, Godlike etc etc

That is why in the last ten years I have learned to cut and paste in anythings that looks like it may later be sanitised by intel types, 404'd, this link does not exist

Back to the fridge tipping, IMHO it is not a forum myth

Why didn't you cut and paste it then? smilie

by Advocatus 17.01.12 19:59

candyfloss wrote:
Advocatus wrote:

I have read about the fridge on a bunch of forums, David Icke, Godlike etc etc

That is why in the last ten years I have learned to cut and paste in anythings that looks like it may later be sanitised by intel types, 404'd, this link does not exist

Back to the fridge tipping, IMHO it is not a forum myth

Why didn't you cut and paste it then?

Lol, because I have only really been paying serious attention to this case in the last few months. I think it is so complicated though, you have to have a pretty good memory to remember those 'oddities' - I think most people who read something that sounds odd or fishy, will mentally file the fact let away. Apparently we only use a small portion of our brains (in my case . <<<--- this much lol!

)

So we actually have plenty of storage room. I thought I'd do a thread on coincidences within this case, then I realised that there are so many I simply don't have time to compile a list. Part of my decision was my choice of sig line from Gerry. I am convinced now they are all muddying the waters as much as possible, with many red herrings, false leads and dead ends thrown in.

I think GA and the PJ figured this out very early on and instead concentrated their somewhat limited resources on Murat and the 'parents' - case in point now, watch all the Cruise Ship early damning reports on various media get given the Clarence spin and misdirection, you can watch my theory in realtime, it never fails! thumbsup

by Advocatus 17.01.12 20:22

Re: Hadn't seen this before.... 'Gerrys Strange Behaviour'
the slave on Tue 18 May - 11:07
I remember the blog about the fridge.
I pray that the P.J. have irrefutable evidence when the time comes.
Of course they're guilty.
Everything they do or say screams it.

by Advocatus 17.01.12 20:24

Hadn't seen this before.... 'Gerrys Strange Behaviour'
margaret on Tue 18 May - 10:42
http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080403043105AAUCrzy

Gerry McCann's strange behaviour.?
For those of you who still suport the McCanns I would like to ask whether you knew about the fridge?

Long ago, shortly after the McCanns hired their car, Gerry reported in his blog that he had taken the fridge from the rented apartment to the dump because it wasnt working.
Gerry himself wrote this and mentioned that people had been supportive at the dump site.
This was of course before they were declared suspects, when the fund was bringing in money everyday and the wave of global sympathy was at its height. Gerry must have felt very relaxed and confident that he didnt need to hide this rather strange action.

But it is a strange thing to do isnt it?
You rent an apartment, the fridge breaks, and instead of getting the owner to replace or repair it you take it upon yourself to remove the fridge and dump it?
How do you know the owner hasnt got a brother who is a fridge repair expert??

You must admit its a VERY strange thing to do.

by Guest 17.01.12 20:40

I had a look through the archived blogs on the findmadeleine.com site via the wayback machine from start up to the point of running away back to uk.. can't see any freezer or fridge mentioned... Though this only shows the pages that were archived - it doesn't show every edit of the page unfortunately...

by Advocatus 17.01.12 22:31

Stewie wrote:I had a look through the archived blogs on the findmadeleine.com site via the wayback machine from start up to the point of running away back to uk.. can't see any freezer or fridge mentioned... Though this only shows the pages that were archived - it doesn't show every edit of the page unfortunately...

Goncalo says immediately it was a matter of state security, soon after the first Leics Police arrived , MI6 had th all sign the official secrets act

That is why all traces of Gerry's adventures fridge tipping have been hoovered off the net

I hope this is something Goncalo and co have up their sleeve!!! lol4

by **PeterMac** 17.01.12 22:38

Is there anyone out there who cached a copy of the blog and who can give a proper reference for the "Fridge / Freezer to the tip" ??

by jd 17.01.12 22:58

Goncalo says immediately it was a matter of state security, soon after the first Leics Police arrived , MI6 had th all sign the official secrets act

Sorry, are we saying that this "fridge' was a matter of state security and M16 made everyone sign the official secrets act? I have never heard anything so bizarre in my life wow

by Advocatus 18.01.12 5:04

jd wrote:
Goncalo says immediately it was a matter of state security, soon after the first Leics Police arrived , MI6 had th all sign the official secrets act

Sorry, are we saying that this "fridge' was a matter of state security and M16 made everyone sign the official secrets act? I have never heard anything so bizarre in my life

No, LMAO!

Pub typing I'm afraid on a bad phone...

Goncalo's site, his interview blogs, first thing he mentions is he was surprised that all the Brits were treating the case as a matter of "state security"

(I'd just call it what it is, a cover-up...)

Later in his blog he comments at his surprise that men turned up from the UK, and asked the 'in country' UK Police Officers to all sign the Official Secrets Act.

I'm sorry, but for a regular UK citizen who has lost a child abroad, this kind of "attention" simply does not happen.

BTW I was just searching for the statements on google - I read today how google is NOT your friend anymore, it's algorythms only feed you what you want to hear (kinda)...

Earlier I typed in dunblane paedophillia

ZERO hits on google

on BING the same two words got me dozens of hits

No more google for me, it is spyware! 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ?? - Page 2 160807

by Guest 18.01.12 9:26

Use scroogle. Got the tip from someone on this forum, works really well.

by Advocatus 18.01.12 22:10

Juulcy wrote:Use scroogle. Got the tip from someone on this forum, works really well.

CHEERS Juuicy! Will give it a try. It is sooooo obvious lately that google is actively harming my research, purposely not showing me stuff it knows i am after! Amazing it can do that... 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ?? - Page 2 475590

by Ross 21.01.12 12:03

Juulcy wrote:Use scroogle. Got the tip from someone on this forum, works really well.

Seconded. Also DuckDuckGo is recommended. "dunblane paedophilia" returns several dozen hits for example.

Gordon Brown. Tony Blair. 'Lord' Robertson.

Sigh, the world is much more wicked and much much weirder than any of us would want to think.

by **tigger** 21.01.12 14:11

jd wrote:Hadn't read this book before, very interesting. This is true

That is just it, Francisco! – João Tavares is animated. – You have just touched an interesting point, and I need no dogs to convince me of this. The child, unfortunately, does not belong to the world of the living anymore. Even if someone was holding her, could we ever believe that she would be kept in that condition, knowing that this is the most publicized child in the world? I don’t think so. The excessive publicity that was given to her face and to the issue of her iris were her condemnation, even in the case that she left that apartment alive. When a child goes missing because she is lost in a shopping center or on the beach, I think it is correct to tell the world about what should be told, and to publicize the child’s distinctive features. Now, if she ever left there alive, publicity killed her . She is worthless to the person who took her. For adoption, it’s the biggest mistake ever. To be included in a pedophile network? She is worthless under these circumstances, even more so because they prefer to keep both themselves and the children anonymous, because if the children remain unknown, then the risks are less. The rest is just empty talk, my friend. She died and God take care of her, because she was an innocent who fell into a world of pure beasts.

I'll read the book now! Why aren't the McCanns suing this writer? Why are they concentrating on Pat Brown and Amaral? Not to mention Tony Bennett - beats me!
Francisco has to agree with his chief. The months that have passed have proved just that, that the destiny of Madeleine was sealed in one of two possible ways, during a time lapse that did not surpass two days. The first one, when she disappeared from that apartment. The second one, when her face and her distinctive signs were prematurely publicized to the world.

He cannot understand why there was such a rush to publish the image, or such a hurry in calling the British media on the night of the disappearance. Why the assumption that this was an abduction case, when it had not yet been determined whether this was a simple case of leaving the apartment by herself? If, for example, on that night the children had been given the medicine that Madeleine’s grandfather had said they usually were given, and which induces sleep and relaxation as side-effects, then there would be an explanation for the fact that the McCanns immediately stated that the child could not have left on her own.

by Lostfridge 05.06.13 10:51

Would love to heard any new thoughts on The Luz Key and the numbers?

by Ayniia 05.06.13 13:46

Lostfridge wrote:Would love to heard any new thoughts on The Luz Key and the numbers?

Not new but after I researched the numbers some time ago this sounded the most plausible to me:

jd wrote:
jd on Tue May 29, 2012 1:45 pm

He says in his interview "His book finishes like it begins,with “the hidden truth” so it is not only the 5231 conundrum, which this under The Millionaires Bet chapter by the sea. There are a number of millionaires involved in this in one way or another and as I have always believed the only way to dispose of a body without ever being found which fits in with gerry mccanns smug (You'll never find her) smile is the sea...Millionaires have boats

To go to the foreword of the book "To those who carry on their shoulders the difficult mission of answering the questions of WHERE, WHEN, HOW, WHO, WHAT and WHY." (note in capitals) If we look at this chapter on this which is Chapter 11. (5+2+3+1)

HOW Possibility: Entrance through door Possibility: Entrance through window Possibility: Transported to another location, alive Possibility: Transported to another location, dead Possibility: Unexpected action by another individual

↓

WHO Possibility: Stranger Possibility: Relative Possibility: Close group

↓

WHAT Possibility: Abduction by stranger Possibility: Abduction by known person Possibility: Death and concealment

↓

WHY Possibility: To hide relevant action Possibility: Actions that derive from abduction

Another clue I believe is "here would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses,to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right." Chapter 16 –Father and daughter is a clue to what they knew of the troubles kate mccann in particular was having with Maddie. he points out "she heard Madeleine shouting, during those days that the family spent at the Ocean Club" so not tied to one particular day but a general consistent happening (I have heard from other sources that it seems that there was a lot of crying/shouting etc from that apartment during that week,not just Mrs Fenn)

Book could also mean kates diary. Four written in a word could mean family of 4, the mccann couple and their twins. Knowledge with a capital K could mean kate mccann. It seems capitals are meant to point the reader to what to look for and number 4 being written as a word

I believe what he is saying is that kate mccann hit her daughter in a moments rage being cross and unable to cope, which was an "Unexpected action by another individual" (5), by a relative kate mccann (2), which resulted in Death and concealment (3), To hide relevant action (1). Body was disposed of into the sea with help from a millionaire friend (I believe) John Geraghy, and his clue is he was the one who got them the key to the Church

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5072p50-the-meaning-of-paulo-cristovao-s-5-2-3-and-1

by Lostfridge 05.06.13 14:08

Ayniia wrote:
Lostfridge wrote:Would love to heard any new thoughts on The Luz Key and the numbers?

Not new but after I researched the numbers some time ago this sounded the most plausible to me:

jd wrote:
jd on Tue May 29, 2012 1:45 pm

He says in his interview "His book finishes like it begins,with “the hidden truth” so it is not only the 5231 conundrum, which this under The Millionaires Bet chapter by the sea. There are a number of millionaires involved in this in one way or another and as I have always believed the only way to dispose of a body without ever being found which fits in with gerry mccanns smug (You'll never find her) smile is the sea...Millionaires have boats

To go to the foreword of the book "To those who carry on their shoulders the difficult mission of answering the questions of WHERE, WHEN, HOW, WHO, WHAT and WHY." (note in capitals) If we look at this chapter on this which is Chapter 11. (5+2+3+1)

HOW Possibility: Entrance through door Possibility: Entrance through window Possibility: Transported to another location, alive Possibility: Transported to another location, dead Possibility: Unexpected action by another individual

↓

WHO Possibility: Stranger Possibility: Relative Possibility: Close group

↓

WHAT Possibility: Abduction by stranger Possibility: Abduction by known person Possibility: Death and concealment

↓

WHY Possibility: To hide relevant action Possibility: Actions that derive from abduction

Another clue I believe is "here would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses,to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right." Chapter 16 –Father and daughter is a clue to what they knew of the troubles kate mccann in particular was having with Maddie. he points out "she heard Madeleine shouting, during those days that the family spent at the Ocean Club" so not tied to one particular day but a general consistent happening (I have heard from other sources that it seems that there was a lot of crying/shouting etc from that apartment during that week,not just Mrs Fenn)

Book could also mean kates diary. Four written in a word could mean family of 4, the mccann couple and their twins. Knowledge with a capital K could mean kate mccann. It seems capitals are meant to point the reader to what to look for and number 4 being written as a word

I believe what he is saying is that kate mccann hit her daughter in a moments rage being cross and unable to cope, which was an "Unexpected action by another individual" (5), by a relative kate mccann (2), which resulted in Death and concealment (3), To hide relevant action (1). Body was disposed of into the sea with help from a millionaire friend (I believe) John Geraghy, and his clue is he was the one who got them the key to the Church
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5072p50-the-meaning-of-paulo-cristovao-s-5-2-3-and-1

John Geraghty. Is that not the same guy who also stored the hire car for them once they got it back from the PJ?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-484797/Sacked-maid-kidnapped-Madeleine-bosses.html

It has also emerged that an independent forensic team from the UK has stripped the McCanns' hire car.

The forensic scientists - who spent more than nine hours examining the vehicle - have been hired by the McCanns to rubbish Portuguese police "evidence".

The Renault has been at the centre of the detectives' claims against the couple since they were both named as arguidos at the beginning of the month.

Scroll down for more ...

Fit for the fight: Gerry and Kate McCann out jogging yesterday

Portuguese newspapers reported that DNA found in the car boot indicated Madeleine's blood, hair and bodily fluids.

The car had been garaged at the home of John Geraghty, a friend of the McCanns, near Praia da Luz.

A source said the team "took as many samples as possible".

"It was an extremely thorough job."

The car has since been returned to the Budget rental company at Faro Aiport.

British scientists who carried out tests on the car for the Portuguese police have said their results have been "twisted".

The Forensic Science Service in Birmingham is reported to have written to the detectives complaining that they had "wildly misused" their findings.

Today the family are marking 150 days since Madeleine disappeared."

by Ayniia 05.06.13 14:24

I don't know for sure maybe someone can remember about who stored the car. What I know is that it still has a car insurance policy active on a Portuguese company, it's available online for anyone who wants to check http://www.isp.pt/NR/exeres/019EEB91-E357-4A7C-8BD2-B62293701692.htm

by lufc50337 23.06.13 10:54

Ayniia wrote:
Lostfridge wrote:Would love to heard any new thoughts on The Luz Key and the numbers?

Not new but after I researched the numbers some time ago this sounded the most plausible to me:
jd wrote:
jd on Tue May 29, 2012 1:45 pm

He says in his interview "His book finishes like it begins,with “the hidden truth” so it is not only the 5231 conundrum, which this under The Millionaires Bet chapter by the sea. There are a number of millionaires involved in this in one way or another and as I have always believed the only way to dispose of a body without ever being found which fits in with gerry mccanns smug (You'll never find her) smile is the sea...Millionaires have boats

To go to the foreword of the book "To those who carry on their shoulders the difficult mission of answering the questions of WHERE, WHEN, HOW, WHO, WHAT and WHY." (note in capitals) If we look at this chapter on this which is Chapter 11. (5+2+3+1)

HOW Possibility: Entrance through door Possibility: Entrance through window Possibility: Transported to another location, alive Possibility: Transported to another location, dead Possibility: Unexpected action by another individual

↓

WHO Possibility: Stranger Possibility: Relative Possibility: Close group

↓

WHAT Possibility: Abduction by stranger Possibility: Abduction by known person Possibility: Death and concealment

↓

WHY Possibility: To hide relevant action Possibility: Actions that derive from abduction

Another clue I believe is "here would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses,to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right." Chapter 16 –Father and daughter is a clue to what they knew of the troubles kate mccann in particular was having with Maddie. he points out "she heard Madeleine shouting, during those days that the family spent at the Ocean Club" so not tied to one particular day but a general consistent happening (I have heard from other sources that it seems that there was a lot of crying/shouting etc from that apartment during that week,not just Mrs Fenn)

Book could also mean kates diary. Four written in a word could mean family of 4, the mccann couple and their twins. Knowledge with a capital K could mean kate mccann. It seems capitals are meant to point the reader to what to look for and number 4 being written as a word

I believe what he is saying is that kate mccann hit her daughter in a moments rage being cross and unable to cope, which was an "Unexpected action by another individual" (5), by a relative kate mccann (2), which resulted in Death and concealment (3), To hide relevant action (1). Body was disposed of into the sea with help from a millionaire friend (I believe) John Geraghy, and his clue is he was the one who got them the key to the Church
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5072p50-the-meaning-of-paulo-cristovao-s-5-2-3-and-1

IMO this is likely the scenario, I've always thought the cover up was fairly simple in that there was maybe a VIP there who didn't want embroiling in a child death case even though nothing to do with it as bad publicity and that the cover up has become more of an issue for them than the original problem. In the current climate it would be a good time to put a stop to the circus as with all the celebrity paedophiles currently in the news a VIP spending time on holiday with the McCanns can now be minimised.

by aniandr 24.06.13 19:09

Maybe a dumb question but who is the guy who wrote the book? How would he know what happened? And why has he never been asked?

by Ayniia 24.06.13 19:18

aniandr wrote:Maybe a dumb question but who is the guy who wrote the book? How would he know what happened? And why has he never been asked?

" Paulo Pereira Cristovão, Former PJ inspector, president of the Portuguese Missing Children Association [APCD]"
https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t4930-foreword-from-the-author-the-challenge
IMO he can't say it directly because he'd be sued.

by stumo 24.06.13 20:16

Fridge problems were mentioned by David Payne in his rogatory interview...

1485 "Yeah. Was there anybody around the resort or you know your, the Ocean Club in general that you weren't happy with''
Reply "Err we, you know we did obviously retrospectively question you know who'd been in, in to the resort to actually work there. They, on one of the days they had some err gardening people which we hadn't you know seen before and we you know we just wondered, you know, after Madeleine had gone err you know who they were and what their you know validity was if you like. Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they'd had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well. Err yeah that, you know who were those people, had they been checked out.'