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5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

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The Luz Key

Post by Praia on 14.01.12 20:34

João Tavares looks away from the ocean for a moment, and looking at Francisco, he says:

- I don’t usually bet on Euromillions, my friend, but if I ever did, there would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses, to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right. As a matter of fact, I would even call it the Luz key.

Those would be the 5, the 2, the 3 and the 1!

_
The above is the conclusion of the book "A Estrela de Madeleine" by Paulo Pereira Cristovao, ex PJ Inspector.

I would love some input from members as to the significance of the Luz key

5, 2, 3, 1 why that order????? What is he trying to tell us?? _

Sorry mods, meant to open new thread in Debates._______________

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Guest on 15.01.12 10:28

Praia wrote:João Tavares looks away from the ocean for a moment, and looking at Francisco, he says:

- I don’t usually bet on Euromillions, my friend, but if I ever did, there would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses, to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right. As a matter of fact, I would even call it the Luz key.

Those would be the 5, the 2, the 3 and the 1!

_
The above is the conclusion of the book "A Estrela de Madeleine" by Paulo Pereira Cristovao, ex PJ Inspector.

I would love some input from members as to the significance of the Luz key

5, 2, 3, 1 why that order????? What is he trying to tell us?? _

Sorry mods, meant to open new thread in Debates._______________

Do you know if the book is available in English?

Could you post a bit more context - ie. what few paragraphs preceded this one and what paragraph followed if any? I love a good puzzle but a bit more context would be great.. thanks
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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by jd on 15.01.12 12:15

This would be interesting to know more in the context he said this....Maybe he was referring to apartments numbers...5a..2? etc.....

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The Luz Key.

Post by sijm on 15.01.12 12:52

The numbers maybe the coordinates of a map because he his close close to the sea in Luz?

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Guest on 15.01.12 13:02


found a translation of the whole book on the maddie case files.

The quote is the last paragraph in the book in chapter 28


-------------------------------
Chapter 28 – The millionaire bet

João Tavares and Francisco Meireles are on service in Praia da Luz for the last time. Or at least, that is what they expect. The place does not bring them bad memories, but it has shown them doors that are still closed to human knowledge.

They are sitting on the wall that surround the Church of Luz. The sea, as they can see it from there, looks imposing. It is very blue. It is a lot of sea. They say that it talks to those who listen to it, but it’s never said a word to these policemen. Francisco had never properly made a friendship with his chief. But he liked to talk with him, because he was always learning. The chief was not prone to talking about his family life, but Francisco took a chance and teased his superior:

- Well, Chief, looking into the blue like that… don’ tell me you already miss this, when you have barely left?

- Francisco, Francisco – João Tavares says, keeping his eyes on the ocean and smiling – everything in life, even the worst things, can help us to learn a little more.

- That is quite true, chief. But sometimes, if we knew a little more before things happen, that would be a good idea.

- That would not be funny at all. Knowing what is coming, would take pleasure out of life. This is how it’s enjoyable. Suddenly and without warning. That is how we see who can take it as a man!

- Well, I actually think it would be great. For example, it would come in handy for Euromillions, wouldn’t it?

João Tavares looks away from the ocean for a moment, and looking at Francisco, he says:

- I don’t usually bet on Euromillions, my friend, but if I ever did, there would be at least four numbers where I would place my little crosses, to hit the winning key. And I bet that at least I would get those four right. As a matter of fact, I would even call it the Luz key.

Those would be the 5, the 2, the 3 and the 1!

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by jd on 15.01.12 13:29

Hadn't read this book before, very interesting. This is true

That is just it, Francisco! – João Tavares is animated. – You have just touched an interesting point, and I need no dogs to convince me of this. The child, unfortunately, does not belong to the world of the living anymore. Even if someone was holding her, could we ever believe that she would be kept in that condition, knowing that this is the most publicized child in the world? I don’t think so. The excessive publicity that was given to her face and to the issue of her iris were her condemnation, even in the case that she left that apartment alive. When a child goes missing because she is lost in a shopping center or on the beach, I think it is correct to tell the world about what should be told, and to publicize the child’s distinctive features. Now, if she ever left there alive, publicity killed her . She is worthless to the person who took her. For adoption, it’s the biggest mistake ever. To be included in a pedophile network? She is worthless under these circumstances, even more so because they prefer to keep both themselves and the children anonymous, because if the children remain unknown, then the risks are less. The rest is just empty talk, my friend. She died and God take care of her, because she was an innocent who fell into a world of pure beasts.

Francisco has to agree with his chief. The months that have passed have proved just that, that the destiny of Madeleine was sealed in one of two possible ways, during a time lapse that did not surpass two days. The first one, when she disappeared from that apartment. The second one, when her face and her distinctive signs were prematurely publicized to the world.

He cannot understand why there was such a rush to publish the image, or such a hurry in calling the British media on the night of the disappearance. Why the assumption that this was an abduction case, when it had not yet been determined whether this was a simple case of leaving the apartment by herself? If, for example, on that night the children had been given the medicine that Madeleine’s grandfather had said they usually were given, and which induces sleep and relaxation as side-effects, then there would be an explanation for the fact that the McCanns immediately stated that the child could not have left on her own.

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5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by PeterMac on 15.01.12 14:31

Serendipity ? Whilst trawling 5231 on google, on page 1 I found this. I have edited out the bits that don’t apply, but see what remains !

http://info.dhhs.state.nc.us/olm/forms/dss/dss-5231.pdf

NORTH CAROLINA SAFETY ASSESSMENT

Part A. Safety Factor Identification
Directions: The following is a list of factors that may be associated with a child(ren) being in immediate danger of serious harm. Identify the presence or absence of each by circling either "yes" or "no", if factor applies to any child in the household or to a child to be returned to the household.
Note: The vulnerability of each child needs to be considered throughout the assessment. Younger children and children with diminished mental or physical capacity or repeated victimisation should be considered more vulnerable.
Complete based on most vulnerable child for each factor.

1 Caregiver's current behavior is violent or out of control. (Some examples of this may include the following.)
Behavior that seems out of touch with reality, fanatical, or bizarre. (Perfect child, perfect g***, princess giving tuppenceworth etc)
Behavior that seems to indicate a serious lack of self-control (e.g., reckless, unstable, raving, explosive). (roaring like a bull, prostrating self on floor, kicking beds,)

2 Caregiver describes or acts toward child in predominantly negative terms or has extremely unrealistic expectations. (Some examples of this may include the following.)
Expects a child to perform or act in a way that is impossible or improbable for the child’s age (e.g.,babies and young children expected to be toilet trained or eat neatly, expected to care for younger siblings, expected to stay alone).
Child is seen by either parent as responsible for the parent’s problem. (Colic, see p. 29 ff.)
Uses sexualized language to describe child or in name calling (e.g., whore, slut, etc.). (Perfect g*** , princess, photo with eye make-up)

5 Caregiver has not, or will not, provide supervision necessary to protect child from potentially serious harm.
(Some examples of this may include the following.)
Caregiver does not attend to child to such an extent that the need for care goes unnoticed or unmet (e.g., although caregiver is present, child wanders outdoors alone, plays with dangerous objects, plays on unprotected window ledge, has unsupervised access to uncovered pools, etc. or is exposed to other serious hazards).
Caregiver leaves child alone (time period varies with age and developmental stage).
Caregiver makes inadequate and/or inappropriate babysitting or child care arrangements or demonstrates very poor planning for child's care.


7 Caregiver has previously maltreated a child and the severity of the maltreatment, or the caregiver's response to the previous incident(s), suggests that child safety may be an immediate concern. (Some examples of this may include the following.)
Caregiver does not acknowledge or take responsibility for prior inflicted harm to the child or explains incident(s) as justified. ("And if Madeleine had hurt herself inside the apartment – why would that be our fault?”)
Both parents cannot/do not explain injuries and/ or conditions. (Pact of silence. Refusal to answer 40+ questions)

8 Child is fearful of caregiver(s), other family members, or other people living in or having access to the home.
(Some examples of this may include the following.)
Child exhibits severe anxiety (i.e., nightmares, insomnia) related to situation (s) associated with a person (s) in the home.

9 The child's physical living conditions are hazardous and immediately threatening. (Some examples of this
may include the following.)
Open/broken/missing windows.

12 Other (specify):
(Some example of this may include the following.)
Possible examples:
Serious allegations with significant discrepancies or contradictions by caregiver or between caregiver and collateral contacts. (too many to list here)
Caregiver refuses to cooperate or is evasive. (Katie’s interview for a start.)

DSS-5231 Revised 5/05 Family Support and Child Welfare Services


Strange parallels. How can the alleged lawyer from IFLG possibly have said that it was within the bounds of responsible parenting

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Guest on 15.01.12 14:39


Thought this was interesting too re the Vatican removing references to the case from their site after finding out keys to the church were given to the Mccanns but not by the priest.

Benedict XVI was the high point of a campaign that had started much earlier, with the visible and well publicized visits at the church in Luz, constantly appealing to religion and to God. The visit to the Vatican represented a conquest for those that were coordinating the pro-McCann campaign; yet, nothing could be done when that State decided to redraw all references to Madeleine from their official site, a clear message that they wanted to distance themselves from the case.

What led to this happening only days before the first lab test results were revealed? Coincidences? Surely not!

We all sin and the Vatican takes that for granted. But did the advisors to Benedict XVI not rush themselves, when they wanted to associate the papal figure to the events that were taking place in Portugal? Didn’t they, initially, step aboard the wave of pity and sympathy towards the McCanns’ pain? Didn’t it look good, in terms of religious policy towards a country like the United Kingdom, that the figure of the Pope became associated to what was the event of the year for Her Majesty’s subjects? Certainly yes.

From that small, yet influent state, strong winds blew when Rome received the news that the McCanns held a key to the church, which had been given to them by a parishioner from a group that was associated to the Church, bypassing the local priest. The clerical hierarchy fell upon the Portuguese church, which after being admonished, ended up blaming the poor priest, who had not contributed to the situation at all.

Those nightly prayers, even though “God is everywhere”, were seen by many as visits to the only location where the couple thought there were no wiretaps, thus being able to talk freely. In reality, although they believed they were being tapped, at home and on the phone, the fact was that they were not.
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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Guest on 15.01.12 14:46

Interesting info about the rogatory letters.. seems the PJ were really interested in the responses of two people - but asked for many people to be interviewed as a disguise for those they were really interested in....

Francisco was talking about the final redaction of the rogatory letters that were to be sent to the British authorities, and which included the request for several diligences. The letters are a poisoned gift, and despite the fact that they target several people, there are two persons who are of special interest to the policemen. And those are not the McCanns.

It’s a bit like those routine police actions, when you go to a hotel to find out whether a certain individual is staying there, and you ask the receptionist for the guest book. You write down seven names at hazard, and an eighth name, which is the one that actually matters. The receptionist is watching, and although he gave the policeman all the information that was needed, he ended up knowing nothing about the person who was actually the target of that action.
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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Gillyspot on 15.01.12 15:04

I have just been inflicting Katey's book on myself. it s a barrister from IFLG (un-named by her) who actually apparently didn't use the word "responsible" but said their childcare was "well within the bounds of reasonable parenting" This was after he apparently had seen how close the Tapas bar was to 5A. Clearly he can see through walls and bushes (and an opaque screen) for him to say that. It would also be interesting whether the McCanns told him the doors were unlocked (or locked).


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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Guest on 15.01.12 15:17

Gillyspot wrote:I have just been inflicting Katey's book on myself. it s a barrister from IFLG (un-named by her) who actually apparently didn't use the word "responsible" but said their childcare was "well within the bounds of reasonable parenting" This was after he apparently had seen how close the Tapas bar was to 5A. Clearly he can see through walls and bushes (and an opaque screen) for him to say that. It would also be interesting whether the McCanns told him the doors were unlocked (or locked).


I was wondering if it's the unlocked doors that make the difference as to whether it is seen as acceptable or not... I'm surprised the MW resorts offer child listening services as it must be a legal minefield and surely is legitimising parents leaving children alone in their apartments. Seems the only reason it's not offered at ocean club luz anymore is that the resort is spread out - so it's more inconvenient for the listeners rather than being unacceptable parenting..

So must be legally ok for MW to offer this service but probably on the basis that the parents accept the risk , and I would bet that as long as the apartment is locked but the checkers have keys to enter should they hear anything untoward. So I bet they never said to IFLG that the apartment was unlocked.. indeed if that conversation ever did happen..
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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Genbug on 15.01.12 16:29

My immediate thought was that they were a family of five, two parents, three children and one has disappeared. But of course, that makes no sense at all!!

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child safety

Post by russiandoll on 15.01.12 16:53

Stewie wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:I have just been inflicting Katey's book on myself. it s a barrister from IFLG (un-named by her) who actually apparently didn't use the word "responsible" but said their childcare was "well within the bounds of reasonable parenting" This was after he apparently had seen how close the Tapas bar was to 5A. Clearly he can see through walls and bushes (and an opaque screen) for him to say that. It would also be interesting whether the McCanns told him the doors were unlocked (or locked).


I was wondering if it's the unlocked doors that make the difference as to whether it is seen as acceptable or not... I'm surprised the MW resorts offer child listening services as it must be a legal minefield and surely is legitimising parents leaving children alone in their apartments. Seems the only reason it's not offered at ocean club luz anymore is that the resort is spread out - so it's more inconvenient for the listeners rather than being unacceptable parenting..

So must be legally ok for MW to offer this service but probably on the basis that the parents accept the risk , and I would bet that as long as the apartment is locked but the checkers have keys to enter should they hear anything untoward. So I bet they never said to IFLG that the apartment was unlocked.. indeed if that conversation ever did happen..


I doubt that it would be considered reasonable or legally ok to leave children locked in a place with no means of escape in case of a fire. It would be interesting to know MW's policy on child care arrangements at night where there is a listening service, it must be documented somewhere.
As for that bit of rubbish in the book about being within the bounds of reasonable parenting, I would have thought a social worker and not a solicitor was qualified to make that judgment.

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Praia on 15.01.12 16:54

I think it is really helpful to go over the Rog. Int. and look closely at what the PJ have asked.
While we have thought the LP were so casual in their interaction with the seven, perhaps they knew exactly who the PJ had honed in on and why.
We wondered why the Chief left the UK early, maybe he got what he asked the LP for.
Those Rog. Int. were so carefully prepared on the Portuguese side - would they watch in an adjoining room while their UK colleagues casually went through months of devoted labour.

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Praia on 15.01.12 17:05

RE. 5, 2, 3, 1 I have looked at the obvious such as co ordinate's etc.

Feel like going through the village at this stage and look at apt. block's. It would take a long time but I dream of those number's!!

Other "clues" if you like, are the "beach" and "dawn", or the "beach at dawn". Will find ref. later, it was Sr. Amaral and one of his supporter's. Don't have time now.

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interesting

Post by russiandoll on 15.01.12 17:15

[quote="Stewie"]Interesting info about the rogatory letters.. seems the PJ were really interested in the responses of two people - but asked for many people to be interviewed as a disguise for those they were really interested in....

Francisco was talking about the final redaction of the rogatory letters that were to be sent to the British authorities, and which included the request for several diligences. The letters are a poisoned gift, and despite the fact that they target several people, there are two persons who are of special interest to the policemen. And those are not the McCanns.

It’s a bit like those routine police actions, when you go to a hotel to find out whether a certain individual is staying there, and you ask the receptionist for the guest book. You write down seven names at hazard, and an eighth name, which is the one that actually matters. The receptionist is watching, and although he gave the policeman all the information that was needed, he ended up knowing nothing about the person who was actually the target of that action.[/quot

DP and JT I wonder?

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Praia on 15.01.12 19:06

McCann and Healy repeat their mantra that " we all do it," utter rubbish. For years I have come into contact with countless English families on holiday in the Algarve. Most take their children out to dinner with them, those who wish to stay out later get babysitter's. Friends have babysat for children of all ages and have never come across
one family who have left their children a la the Tapas 9. Those who can't afford a sitter stay in and relax quite happily.

It never happened. I agree something tragic occured very early on. We have never come across large groups with so much illness within a few day's. The children were being looked after, imo.

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Praia on 15.01.12 19:12

PeterMac I always look out for your posts. Nice to talk!
I agree, Serendipity indeed!

I am sure those number's should hint at something important. It was at the end of the book to give the reader a pointer, the sequence is the key! I sound like the parent's and their beloved refrain of a missing key!

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by tigger on 15.01.12 19:57

Praia wrote:McCann and Healy repeat their mantra that " we all do it," utter rubbish. For years I have come into contact with countless English families on holiday in the Algarve. Most take their children out to dinner with them, those who wish to stay out later get babysitter's. Friends have babysat for children of all ages and have never come across
one family who have left their children a la the Tapas 9. Those who can't afford a sitter stay in and relax quite happily.

It never happened. I agree something tragic occured very early on. We have never come across large groups with so much illness within a few day's. The children were being looked after, imo.

That's not all what 'we all do'. Finding a drunk collapsed in the street, Kate tells us 'we've all been there'. Not so!

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Praia on 15.01.12 20:42

Like many people on here that statement re. the drunk raised a red flag - TM do not say anything off the cuff. Imo these sorts of statements are to cover their behinds. From McCann's blog's to the interview's (Q's and A's always prepared) to the bewk, they do and say bizarre things. I have no doubt that the Blog was conveying info. to those in the know.

Off topic but I followed every word of McCann's blog and he did indeed mention taking a broken fridge to the local tip. People here decades don't know where the main tip is, never mind a first time visitor!
IF the fridge had needed replacing the landlord or management company takes care of it. The local shop's will deliver new one and take the broken one away. I don't know what McCann removed but it was not a fridge.
Unless he got a nice part time job with a local shop - mortgage to be paid etc.

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by jd on 15.01.12 23:30

Putting everything aside, you do have to question why anybody on their holiday in a foreign country especially, makes the effort to go to a dump yard to dispose of a freezer? In all seriousness the answer is in the question

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Advocatus on 16.01.12 5:39

How can the alleged lawyer from IFLG possibly have said that it was within the bounds of responsible parenting




Lodges 'r' Us ???


Truly excellent stuff PeterMac. As for serendipity, sure, that is why YOU are here, me too, a seasoned local just joined, Praia, it is all coalescing, as Goncalo says "Justice moves in silence" - or something like that! lol4


As was mentioned, the exact phraseology was picked up by Gillyspot, "within the bounds."


I REALLY hope some ACE detectives at SY/PJ are reading this and other sites, because it is all here, even without their resources.


If this is all whitewashed I will give up and go home!

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Advocatus on 16.01.12 5:46

Praia wrote:McCann and Healy repeat their mantra that " we all do it," utter rubbish. For years I have come into contact with countless English families on holiday in the Algarve. Most take their children out to dinner with them, those who wish to stay out later get babysitter's. Friends have babysat for children of all ages and have never come across
one family who have left their children a la the Tapas 9. Those who can't afford a sitter stay in and relax quite happily.

It never happened. I agree something tragic occured very early on. We have never come across large groups with so much illness within a few day's. The children were being looked after, imo.


Exactimundo!


EVERYTHING about this case is like something from the 'Twilight Zone'...


And shoved down our throats by the big media (I am talking about the big boys, not local newspapers ... i.e. in Portugal, I think they pushed things and did some pretty good work, put it this way, the british establishment seriously underestimated the PJ and Portuguese people in general!)...

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by Advocatus on 16.01.12 5:47

McCann and Healy repeat their mantra that " we all do it," utter rubbish. For years I have come into contact with countless English families on holiday in the Algarve. Most take their children out to dinner with them, those who wish to stay out later get babysitter's. Friends have babysat for children of all ages and have never come across
one family who have left their children a la the Tapas 9. Those who can't afford a sitter stay in and relax quite happily.

It never happened. I agree something tragic occured very early on. We have never come across large groups with so much illness within a few day's. The children were being looked after, imo.





"That's not all what 'we all do'. Finding a drunk collapsed in the street, Kate tells us 'we've all been there'. Not so!"


She has!


BTW


Old Clarrie the clown at it again, it really must be.
1. A BUTTERFLY lands on Kate's head whilst the POPE blesses a picture of Maddie??? What are the odds?
Anyone see 'wag the dog'? I BET it was just ONE feed that got that!
2. Didn't Gerry (A QUINN MARTIN PRODUCTION) miraculously SAVE a heart attack victim on the (EASYJET DONOR, VIRGIN DONOR, I FORGET) plane scurrying their arses back to the UK in shame, as --->>> SUSPECTS???
(Hey, we all know that this was a Clarence production (allegedly), but if it wasn't, the poor man was probably set off by seeing TM a couple of aisles down quaffing champers and prawns!)

3. Didn't at one crucial point, Gerry and Kate stop their car to help a total drunk (the same C actor as on the plane? Never ever interviewed by the red-tops for a 'Gerry Saved my Life' special? I guess C didn't want to push his luck, eh?) passed out on the road, and CARRY HIM home??? Jeez. Carry!

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"One good thing to come out of all this is that there is so much in the press, nobody knows what is true, and what isn't." - Gerry McCann: Police CATS (Case Administration and Tracking System) Number 19309 - NB: The 19309 number is still on the Police database, but all data within the file appears to have been ERASED...

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Re: 5-2-3-1 Luz Key ??

Post by beejay on 17.01.12 9:24

5-2-3-1 : Could this be the combination for a lock? For example, a safe deposit box or a room safe. Was there a room safe in apartment 5a?

Most of the hotels I have stayed in have room safes and the combinations are always a choice of 4 numbers from 0-10.

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