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Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

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Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by HiDeHo on 01.01.12 23:39

Was Madeline seen during the holiday?

For those of us that believe something happened earlier, the statements confirm there is a possibility that she may not have been seen.

Keep in mind they were using this picture to remind them of who she was...



Also keep in mind how easy it would be to mistake one of the other tapas children for Madeleine...Miguel Matias was convinced Madeleine was at the Paraiso, when we know it was not Madeleine he saw, but the other tapas children.




This is a list of the ONLY people that I can find that claim to have seen Madeleine. Not ONE of them (apart from Fatima) proves that she was seen imo.

Fátima María Serafim da Silva Espada (5A Cleaner's daughter)
Cecilia Dias Firmino - Receptionist at Millenium
Jeronimo Salcedes - Tapas Barman
Maria M A Jose - Tapas Cook
Luisa Ana de Noronha de Azevedo Coutinho ( Receptionist)
Georgina Jackson - Tennis instructor
Bridget O'Donnell - Jez Wilkins partner
Miguel Matias - Owner of Paraiso
The Boyds Their son supposedly played with Madeleine on the waterslide on May 3rd
Catriona Baker
Charlotte Pennington
Elisa Dias Romao -
Emma Wilding -
Paula Cristina da Costa Vieira -

Alice Stanley & Chris Unsworth - Took children sailing May 3rd - Apparently no formal statements from them-

Non Specific comments that do not (imo) confirm Madeleine's presence:-

Jeremy (Jes/Jez) Wilkins
Stephen Carpenter
Daniel Stuk


Cecilia Dias Firmino -
Receptionist at Millenium and 'saw' Madeleline and her parents on days they were not there. - Mistaken Identity?

Paula Cristina da Costa Vieira - Cleaner - Saw them twice leaving Millenium about 9.30 - 10am - The didn't go to Millenium for breakfast - Mistaken Identity?

Jeronimo Salcedes - Tapas Barman
Could not say with certainty whether he saw Madeleine. - Unknown

Maria M A Jose - Tapas Cook
Claims she saw Madeleine when she attended the creche next to the tapas but Madeleine went to the creche 10 minutes away. - Mistaken Identity?

Luisa Ana de Noronha de Azevedo Coutinho ( Receptionist)
Saw 'Madeleine' when ROB booked the tapas but may have been mistaken as Ella and Madeleine are similar (as can be seen in pics on link posted above) Bookngs were made in the morning and Ella did not attend creche that day so may have been with her father. - Mistaken Identity?

Bridget O'Donnell
'All pink and pretty'. It was not the Lobsters mini tennis that she describes. Madeleine played another day. - Non Specific - Mistaken Identity

Miguel Matias
Saw Madeleine dancing with her daddy at the Paraiso but CCTV footage proves he was incorrect and mistakenly thought another tapas child was Madeleine. - Mistaken Identity

Statements that 'allude' to seeing Madeleine but not specific:

Georgina Jackson : 'it being that the child also had a class' 'she was among a group of children'......Does that statement CONFIRM that Madeleine was there, she remembers her specifically, or is it only that she presumes she was there because of the records? - Not Specific

The Boyds Their son supposedly played with Madeleine on the waterslide on May 3rd. The only possible timing would be when Madeleine was 'apparently' at the poolside but the Boyds claim Gerry was playing tennis...Not a credible 'sighting' for many reasons.

Catriona Baker - Her early statement and Rogatory has so many contradictions and discrepancies along with a personal visit to the McCanns in November 2007 just before the Rogatory interviews deems her statements impossible to be classified as credible. - Not credible

Charlotte Pennington Many discrepancies and contradictions.- Not credible proof of seeing Madeleine.

Elisa Dias Romao - Remembers seeing them leave for lunch always between 12.30pm -1.00pm (Creche records show they left every day between 12.10 and 12.30pm) - Not credible - Mistaken Identity?

Emma Wilding - Remembers Gerry McCann picking Madeleine up for lunch...According to records it was Kate. - Mistaken identity?

Alice Stanley & Chris Unsworth - Took children sailing May 3rd - Apparently no statements from them-

None of the statements from the witnesses above prove that Madeleine was NOT seen during the week...but none of them PROVE that she WAS SEEN! imo

The ONLY Credible sighting of Madeleine Sunday April 29th lunchtime.

Fátima María Serafim da Silva Espada (5A Cleaner's daughter) -Saw children outside 5A with bread and plates apparently going up to Paynes apartment - CREDIBLE

WAS Madeleine seen after Sunday lunchtime?

The statements do not prove that she WASN'T seen during the holiday, but NOT ONE after Sunday proves that she WAS seen!

(Please correct me if it is not apparent, but it may be necessary to check the link to see the original statement to understand how they are not totally credible)

Another confirmation, to me, of the possibility that something happened to her earlier in the week.

(If Fatima da Silva's statement claimed she saw them on Wednesday, and her work schedule allowed for that sighting, it would be enough for me to reconsider the earlier in the week possibility.)

However, by coincidence.....it shows as Sunday, the last time we can be relatively certain that she was seen.

It is open to scrutiny and keep in mind I have only summarised the discrepancies, but I really do challenge anyone to show me a credible sighting of her in that week.

I thought the statements would disprove my thoughts about something happening to Madeleine earlier in the week but was surprised to see they don't. imo











Read the statements in full (highlighted):
http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Discrepancies-by-Topic/Who-Saw-Madeleine-Credibility-Statement-Highlights-1-780252.html

Fatima da Silva and her mother (that cleaned the Mcanns apartment) can be seen around 6.00 in this video

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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by jd on 01.01.12 23:48

Could this be the little girl they saw?



http://www.nationalledger.com/news-tech/robert-murat-daughter-looked--222481.shtml


Robert Murat has been identified as a suspect in the case of Madeleine McCann, the four year old girl is missing in Portugal. Murat maintains his innocence and was questioned for police for hours as they look into finding Madeline. But as more information emerges about Robert Murat, one report claims that his daughter looks just like Maddie. Missing Madeleine McCann could be the 'twin' sister of the daughter of Robert Murat, a friend of the Murat family said today.


Robert Murat Daughter Looked 'Just Like' Madeleine McCann
Geoffrey Livock, 71, who lives near Mr. Murat�s estranged wife Dawn in Hockering, Norfolk, England, said the girls had the same hair style and very similar faces. "At first glance if you saw them walking down the street you would think they were twins,� he said.

***

�Their hair is about the same and their faces are similar. I didn�t think anything about it when Madeleine went missing. It was only when all this came out that I realized they were so similar.�

Friends today described Mr. Murat's daughter, four, who is also blonde, as "his life, reports the Times Online. His daughter is in the UK as his wife, Dawn, returned to her native Norfolk with their daughter four months after the family had immigrated to Portugal because she was homesick and he stayed behind. Murat, 33, whose father is Portuguese, carried on as a self-employed property consultant on the Algarve, but visited the child regularly. He was traveling back and forth for some time.

***

Bailey added, "But he was upset about being away from his daughter. She is his first child and she means a lot to him. When she was born, it was the best thing ever for him. I know he stays in contact with [her] and telephones her all the time from Portugal. She is his world and he loves her to bits."

Police were unable to charge Mr. Murat with a crime. He is now claiming that he is a 'scapegoat' and was only trying to help look for the child.

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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by Guest on 02.01.12 13:23

@HiDeHo wrote:Luisa Ana de Noronha de Azevedo Coutinho ( Receptionist)
Saw 'Madeleine' when ROB booked the tapas but may have been mistaken as Ella and Madeleine are similar (as can be seen in pics on link posted above) Bookngs were made in the morning and Ella did not attend creche that day so may have been with her father. - Mistaken Identity?
I think it is VERY important to mention here, that there is nothing in writing anywhere in the files, to suggest this was Russell O'Brien. It is very dangerous to assume it was him, in view of there being not one scrap of evidence to support that theory. This persons identity is a total mystery and the subject of much avoidance by all of the tapas group. Russell's take on who made the booking is quite clear, he believes it was Rachel Oldfield.

O’Brien recalls the tapas booking:
“We were booked into the Tapas bar, we ate there that night initially it was booked as a one off I think by Rachael as far as I am aware the table was booked for 20:30hours. I am aware that Rachael asked to eat there each night for the remainder of our stay this I believe was booked on the Monday morning as a block booking- the time was agreed by the group”.
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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by HiDeHo on 02.01.12 14:41

Thank you for pointing that out Stella.

This is the receptionist's statement:
Quote:
11) - Luisa Ana de Noronha de Azevedo Coutinho ( Receptionist)http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post186.html#p186

She remembers that on Sunday 29th April one of the elements of the group arrived with the child Madeleine McCann, she does not know his name and can only say that he was male and tall and thin and that he approached her to request a booking for the whole group, for the whole week and always at 20.30.

When questioned, she confirms that the man was not the father of the girl but one of the members of the group whom was often seen in his company.

The man justified his request by saying that the group had many small children whom they would leave alone when they went to dine. She said that at intervals some two parents would go to the apartments to see if everything was OK.

The deponent made some comments about the request, saying that the Tapas received many requests and that MW only had a quota of 20 per day, but upon the insistence of the guest she managed to make the bookings requested.

She confirms that it was possible to see the apartment from the restaurant, including the window of the sitting room.

Is this the same person?

McCanns Pressure and Harass Ocean Club Employee


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/05/mccanns-pressure-and-harass-ocean-club.html




Lower Third – Ocean Club Employee was pressured by Kate McCann to tell what she knows

Voice Over: What she saw, what she knows, and what could have this employee of the Ocean Club said to raise such an interest by the McCanns? 'Francisca', a fictitious name, was persistently approached at the end of the last year by the ‘spearhead’ of the couple in Portugal. Susan Hubbard, the wife of the Anglican Father [Haynes], in Praia da Luz, went various times to the tourist complex, to the house and even left notes in the mail box. She was determined to put her [the employee] in contact with Kate.

‘Francisca’ – She told me: ‘Kate wants to make contact with you, because she wants to make you questions, etc...’. And I said: ‘What questions? Because there’s a detail, at the time I was on my break. I had three days off, do you understand it?’ So, what I have seen, what I have not seen, who was there, who was not, I don’t know.

Voice Over: This witness might be key in the investigation, since she lives near to the church – the place where the former coordinator of the investigation suspects that Madeleine’s body passed through. The worker for the position she occupied, controlled a great part of the conversations and faces that appeared in Praia da Luz during the long months of the investigation. The insistency of Susan, so that ‘Francisca’ gave her personal email address arouse suspicions.

‘Francisca’ – She wanted to get in my ‘site’, to see who I was talking to or who I was in contact.

Voice Over: The contact with Kate happened a month later, via SMS. In the texted messages, Madeleine’s mother, warned that family members would go to Praia da Luz in the following days, and that she would be contacted personally. The approach was made, not by the mother nor by Gerry’s sister, but by Arthur Bailey [fictional name?], a detective hired by the family, who was once an inspector of the Scotland Yard.

‘Francisca’ – He made me some questions, what were my impressions, lots of things…

Journalist – And do you believe that they were suspecting that you…

‘Francisca’ – That I knew more than what I was saying.. That was my impression…

Journalist – …That you were working as an informer to someone?

‘Francisca’ – Exactly.

Voice Over: From the talks that she had with her colleagues ‘Francisca’ believes that she was the only Ocean Club employee target of the private detectives and of the couple. She doesn’t have doubts that Madeleine is dead and she hopes to explain why to Gonçalo Amaral, now that the former inspector is committed in reopening the process.
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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by HiDeHo on 03.01.12 14:55

I haven't included the T7 claims of when they last saw her as their statements are known to be inconsistent and riddled with discrepancies.

However, upon scrutinising Rachael's statement it appears to me to be PROOF that she was deliberately attempting to cover up the truth and this would not have been necessary if Madeleine had died later in the day on Thursday.

As with all their statements it gets a little complicated but I will try to explain as best as possible. I have all the links to the original statements, if required, but for the sake of explaining as simply as possible I will not include them for now.

Rachael claims to have seen Madeleine for the last time when she played mini tennis on THURSDAY. Madeleine's group played on TUESDAY.

First question: Is Rachael saying she saw Madeleine for the last time on TUESDAY or THURSDAY?

During lunchtime on Thursday, Jane claims she was playing tennis with Rachael (between about 1.30 and 2.30pm)

Jane claims that Madeleine shouted at them through the fence. Rachael only mentions Gerry and Kate watching them (a few sentences previously in her statement she had said about seeing Madeleine for the last time in the morning)

Jane claims she saw Madeleine, Rachael (because of her previous comment) did not see Madeleine. This was the time the last picture was 'supposedly' taken.

Second question(s): Were only Kate and Gerry by the pool or was Madeleine there also? Was Jane claiming to have been there to support the last picture credibility? Why did Rachael not claim to have seen Madeleine for the last time during the tennis match? Were ANY of them there?

Third question(s): If Rachael claims to have seen Madeleine for the last time when she was playing mini tennis (Madeleine's group played on Tuesday) then was the LAST TIME she saw Madeleine on TUESDAY? We 'know' that Madeleine was not playing on Thursday morning so why would Rachael claim it was the last time she saw her? Was she attempting to place Madeleine alive on Thursday morning, not realising that the children playing tennis were not Madeleine's group?

The police suspected something was wrong with her statement and may have doubted she was there.....they specifically asked her which of the courts she saw Madeleine played on. She described the wrong court (according to the tennis records) so maybe she wasn't even there for the other groups mini tennis!


when was the last time you saw Madeleine”?
Reply “Erm it was when she was having a tennis lesson, in the morning yeah, about probably between ten thirty and eleven on the morning of the third of May”.00.41.13 1578 “At the tennis courts”?
Reply “Yes at the tennis courts”.
1578 “Any particular court”?
Reply “Erm it was the one, if you were standing facing the courts, it’s the one on the left I think”.
1578 “Got your exhibit here, number 101, are they the tennis courts”?
Reply Yes, it was, it was that one, there are only two courts there”.
1578 Okay”.
Reply So it would have been this one here, where the children were”.
1578 “What’s that one there and what is that”?
Reply “Erm that’s the, I think that’s probably, well the outside bit of the, of the crèche overlooked the tennis courts and so maybe that’s that, that’s not quite sort of accurate I don’t think that, that diagram, the crèche was here and there’s an outside area here and the indoor, in, inside of it there”.
1578 “Okay. When did you see Kate and Gerald on Thursday May the third”?
Reply “Erm well I saw Kate, I chatted to Kate by the pool, erm in the morning”.
1578 “What time was that”?
Reply “That would have been from sort of, you know half nine, ten o’clock onwards, we were chatting when Madeleine arrived for the tennis lesson with the rest of the children from her group, erm I think that was probably about ten thirty, erm and Gerry was there then as well, I think he’d been having a lesson on the tennis courts I think, he was having group lessons, so I think he might have been having his lesson sort of up until then, erm so they were both there then and then erm Matt and I had our tennis lesson and then Jane and I, when Jane and I were having a hit on the court when, in the afternoon, so about half two, three o’clock when G***e was having her sleep and E**e was asleep, erm Gerry and Kate were watching us, so we saw them then and then we saw Kate running on the beach later on that day, about quarter to five, five o’clock”.


There are many discrepancies for Thursday, but Rachel's statement cannot be attributed to bad memory (imo).

She either saw Madeleine for the last time on TUESDAY (when Madeleine's group was playing tennis) or she was hiding the truth about Thursday.....

Why would that be necessary if Madeleine was still alive at that time?

Just another reason to continue believing the possibility that something happened to Madeleine earlier in the week.
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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by jd on 03.01.12 18:39

Charlotte Pennington on the last time she saw Maddie on the 3rd, says in her statement:

"I was helping give the children high tea. The twins were there and Madeleine and both parents. It was supposed to finish at 5.30pm but because they were a big group and really social, it didn't finish until about 6pm. There was nothing out of the ordinary at all."

However, speaking on the Channel 4 Dispatches documentary 'Searching For Madeleine', aired on 18 October 2007, she says:
"On May the third, it was just Madeleine I was reading a story to. I later saw them around lunchtime. That's the last time I saw them together as a family."

So, which is true? Did she last see Madeleine and the McCanns at 6.00pm or at lunchtime? And why the discrepancy?

Charlotte Pennington is the mother of all give aways

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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by jd on 03.01.12 18:48

Stephen Carpenter

DCF: Did you see Kate or Gerry on the Thursday 3rd May, obviously this was the day when Madeleine disappeared already mentioned in your statement.

SC: Yes, in the restaurant, yes.

DCF: Do you remember if you saw them before the evening'

SC: Humm... I think that we played tennis during the afternoon on Thursday.

DCF: Yes.

SC: I’m not certain, I remember that it was on Thursday that there were four individuals with whom we used to share the tennis courts, and I think that I mentioned this in my statement, I would say that it was on Thursday that we played tennis and I think that this was what we talked about in the Tapas bar.

DCF: OK, do you have any idea of what time you played tennis with Gerry'

SC: Humm... from two to four or from two until any time in the afternoon, I remember it coincided with leaving the kids in the crèche and picking them up.

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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by HiDeHo on 03.01.12 18:57

According to Rachael (in my last post) the last time she saw Madeleine was prior to her tennis game with Jane Thursday lunchtime.

She only claims to have seen Gerry and Kate.....which means Madeleine wasn't there Thursday lunchtime...

So...inadvertently, Rachael is claiming the 'last picture' was not taken at this time!
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The Southampton Man

Post by TrollAng on 03.01.12 21:27

'I recall that one of the guests', 'a man from Southampton came up' full-stop. 'His daughter', it was his three year old daughter, 'his young daughter was having a', this, it may be word perfect, 'was having a',".

1578 "We have got 'His daughter was playing tennis'?"
Reply "Well, yeah, his, his daughter was having a tennis lesson, a kid's tennis lesson, I mean, she was only, she was probably the same age as E and E, they were in the same, they were all at the same clubs but they had, there were, there were a certain number of children so they had them in two groups, so they didn't always do the same thing, Beavers and the Lobsters or something. And, yeah, she was having a, a sort of, well kind of a kiddies tennis lesson".
00.56.50 1578 "Yes".
Reply "And the question about Madeleine then, this is exactly the same as Madeleine and E had done the day before. And that's where that very famous picture of Madeleine with the tennis b*lls was taken, so. But it wasn't Madeline on this day, Madeleine and E were in the same group and I think they'd been done on, the Tuesday or the Wednesday, they had come up, so they all, there were two kind of mini kid groups, mini club kid groups and they did, they were on like a rota and they did things at different times and on different days. So Madeleine was not there at that point at all. And I think that's important, particularly, because of what the man said, if Madeleine was potentially being photographed by anyone, it was absolutely clear that Madeleine and E were not there that day. It says 'I recall that a guy from Southampton came up, his daughter was playing tennis, he wanted to take a picture', 'but casual', maybe 'casually expressed to us how uncomfortable he felt in doing so'".
1578 "'But casually expressed'?"
Reply "Yeah, he wasn't, he just. And it might be worth saying that, he said that the, something like, 'These days you feel like a pervert' or maybe just extending that, 'You feel like a dirty old man taking a picture of your own daughter' maybe just to make it a bit more explicit, because that's what he said, he didn't just come up and say 'Oh I feel like a dirty old man', sort of, 'In this', 'The way things are these days', 'you feel like a criminal' or 'a dirty old man taking a photo of your own kid'".

1578 "'The way things are these days you feel like a'?"
Reply "Yeah, it, it was, it was a, it wasn't just a 'Oh I feel a bit dirty taking this'".
1578 "Did he use the word 'pervert'?"
Reply "Huh, we had a whole conversation about this and whether those were his first words or whether this was what, because there was Kate, there was myself, Jane, Rachael, him, there was a small group, around, and I think he felt a little self-conscious because he was walking past another group of parents taking a photograph of several kids at the net of the tennis".
00.58.58 1578 "Yeah".
Reply "I don't know if he used the word 'perv', but the conversation went round on this and, that, that society, makes, can make normal parents feel uncomfortable doing what ten, twenty, thirty years ago would have been considered an entirely innocent thing, like taking a photograph. I think it would be 'a dirty old man', 'feel a bit of a perv', phew, I don't know what his first words were. But then we actually had a conversation and I think, we, probably as a group, kind of said, said 'It's ridiculous isn't it, you take a picture of your own kid and you're made to feel like you're a pervert' or something like that. And I don't like the next paragraph the way it is, I think its".

1578 "Just a moment. And present at that conversation were?"
Reply "Well certainly myself, Jane, Kate and Rachael, I don't know if there was any, I think it was kind of generally a sort of women's tennis lesson that had gone on, there may have been a partner of one of the other, of the other guests, there were a couple of people who were, who Kate and Rachael and Jane had played with, I, I forget the names. I've got this vague recollection there was a lady who, probably in her mid-forties, blonde hair, who may have been there as well, I, I never really spoke to her really. But there may have been one person like in the group as well who had been playing tennis. And this chap who, who whose name is in my original statement, I'm afraid I've forgotten what it was, but he, as I say, he lives in Southampton, he was there with his wife and a young kid and, and had lived in Exeter about fifteen years before, which was one of the conversations we had, at that point. But, yeah, those are, those, certainly Rachael, Kate and myself, Jane and this man".
1578 "Okay".
01.01.23 Reply "And the next paragraph just doesn't, I know it's been cobbled together, it doesn't read, actually I think".
1578 "'I found this most uncomfortable'?"
Reply "Well, no, I think, not".
1578 "Or are we going down to E?"
Reply "No, no, no, 'I found this most', I mean, huh, it's my recollection that at the time it seemed, like, huh, a slightly lamenting conversation about the state of modern day, Britain, so maybe, I think it might be worth just to clarify, we then, , something like 'We then had a conversation about the seemingly', , 'ludicrous nature of',".

1578 "Okay".
Reply "'Of, , 'that you couldn't take photographs of your own children'".
1578 "'We then had a conversation'?"
Reply "Yeah, that 'the ludicrous pressure on parents that they can't take photographs of their own children', because I think that was the essence of it. And certainly the other, the other aspect of the conversation that was made, which kind of, is, huh, is doubly haunting, was that, we said that, 'You're far', You're far more likely to get clobbered by your uncle or your neighbour than some' 'random stranger'.Which in light of the way that the Police investigation has gone, it feels like, a real kick in the nuts".
1578 "'Far more like to get clobbered by'?"
Reply "You're far more likely to have to have a problem with somebody, from somebody and we actually said, and that was actually sort of said, we all worry about, , a small number of fairly kind of sick perverts".

1578 "Rather than a stranger?"
01.03.14 Reply "Rather than a stranger, yeah, but, huh, which of course, of course statistically is true. And the bit here that says 'I found this most uncomfortable', is that, since, since this happened, ten or eleven hours before, before Madeleine was abducted, it just seemed a really, it's really, a very, very uncomfortable coincidence, ever since I found this, this whole pile of things that are nast, are really kind of unpleasant, but the fact that we actually had this conversation, within twelve hours of her going missing was, was, well, haunting, that men were. .It's just, I mean, it is just a coincidence, it's not as if, within the space of a year in Britain, , you don't hear of, a school banning cameras and, it's quite, it's not an uncommon conversation I think for, for parents with young children these days to think has it gone too far, is there too much, is there too much kind of worry and protection and are we, damaging children's upbringing, by by not allowing them to, to run free a little. I think, yeah, and the last statement, I definitely want that there. I mean, as far as I was concerned, this was, this was an entirely reasonable comment from this man, he'd just walked past a few parents, some of whom he probably didn't know, and he was taking photographs of his daughter, who was on this tennis court, but there were adjacent children in, in, in shot. I can, particularly as a, as a man, can particularly understand how he might have felt going up there because clearly, this is, this is something that, you need to be aware of. And my dad, we've had a conversation about this since, when I was little and growing up, in the street he would freely talk, he would freely talk with my friends and people going by and he says, just, these days you just, you just ignore people, you ignore children because you wouldn't want anyone to sort of think that you were, you were kind of, trying to entertain them with an ulterior motive. So this did not feel bad and I would hate to think that me saying this that anyone would think that I was trying to implicate this man, I do not think that there was anything untoward in it".


I find it interesting that where at times nobody seemed to remember anything about important things, give varying accounts of what happened etc Russell can spare 1527 words (above) on the Southampton man who was trying to take a picture of his daughter. In fact he gets a mention in the work of literary excellence and is also remembered by Jane. Only in Kate & Jane's case it was a video he was taking, not a photo. Where Rachel is mixed up on the mini tennis days she does seem to remember that Kate forgot her camera and there were other parents there taking pictures of their kids.

What I wonder about is was Madeleine there or was there someone in that mini tennis group who Kate, Jane, Russell & Rachel didn't want photographed and did they make the Southampton guy feel uneasy? Or is this man a work of fiction. To me it beggars belief that Kate can't remember if windows or doors were locked, the others can't remember when they last saw Madeleine or what they did that day/night yet they all remember every vivid detail of this meeting.
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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 04.01.12 16:24

I can understand that under normal circumstances anyone being interviewed by the police would appear to have some sort of nervousness in their reply, to begin with. After a little easing and relaxing the conversation should flow, but what I keep on reading/hearing is how this lot stuttered, stammered and really struggled to explain/describe anything in a natural, flowing way..........and to me that tells me that they are mentally struggling to lie but know they need to so what comes out of their mouths is such a terrible mess and mashed up version of events, it's impossible to piece together anything coherent enough to make proper sense of it........... intentionally! If someone was to ask me did I or did I not see someone at a tennis lesson I would say either,yes I definitely did or I am sorry but I cannot remember or, no, I did not. Simple. If some was to ask me about a strange person hanging about and the conversation I had with them, I would describe it in a straight forward manner with as much detail as possible. I would not have to stammer, I would not have to interrupt the flow of a sentence 6 or 7 times before finally almost getting to the point of answering. I would see this is some level of eccentricity in one or two of them but not all of them............ unbelievable! Why such nervousness, why such broken up and patched together explanations?? Why the complete lack of direct answers??????. I can only assume that it is because they lying and/or telling half-truths,distorting facts and creating smokescreens purposely in a joint attempt to confuse the police is it just me????????????? I cannot even begin to tell you how confused and head-spun I was after reading Fiona Payne's rogatory interview !

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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by jd on 04.01.12 16:53

I can't make head or tail of this statement about the Southampton man. I can't really fathom what he is trying to say. But it is so true, they remember all the details of minute unimportant things but the real important things, they stutter, stammer, keep saying' you know you know', not sure, don't know, um, err, not sure when they last saw Maddie (my god!!)....change story from one statement to another. The rogatory statements were a year after the event so there can't be nervousness

Like kate says, on the night of the 3rd before heading off to the Tapas bar, one minute she having a shower then it wasn;t a shower it was a bath, then its gerry taking the shower, this, that, contradictions but....she remembers very clearly the detail that they were drinking wine from New zealand!...and new zealand white!

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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by HiDeHo on 04.01.12 16:59

Lets not forget that this conversation was at the same time that Jane was claiming both her and ROB were down at the beach while Madeleine was having her sailing lesson and she was taking pictures of Ella.

See' Could something have happened to Madeleine earlier in the week' thread to see the timeline of events for that morning.
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Re: Was Madeleine seen during the holiday?

Post by Guest on 04.01.12 18:43

@Upsy Daisy wrote:I can understand that under normal circumstances anyone being interviewed by the police would appear to have some sort of nervousness in their reply, to begin with. After a little easing and relaxing the conversation should flow, but what I keep on reading/hearing is how this lot stuttered, stammered and really struggled to explain/describe anything in a natural, flowing way..........and to me that tells me that they are mentally struggling to lie but know they need to so what comes out of their mouths is such a terrible mess and mashed up version of events, it's impossible to piece together anything coherent enough to make proper sense of it........... intentionally! If someone was to ask me did I or did I not see someone at a tennis lesson I would say either,yes I definitely did or I am sorry but I cannot remember or, no, I did not. Simple. If some was to ask me about a strange person hanging about and the conversation I had with them, I would describe it in a straight forward manner with as much detail as possible. I would not have to stammer, I would not have to interrupt the flow of a sentence 6 or 7 times before finally almost getting to the point of answering. I would see this is some level of eccentricity in one or two of them but not all of them............ unbelievable! Why such nervousness, why such broken up and patched together explanations?? Why the complete lack of direct answers??????. I can only assume that it is because they lying and/or telling half-truths,distorting facts and creating smokescreens purposely in a joint attempt to confuse the police is it just me????????????? I cannot even begin to tell you how confused and head-spun I was after reading Fiona Payne's rogatory interview !

Thanks for spelling my thoughts!!! I so agree with you, if this statements are correctly translated and I assume they are, then I find it so hard to believe that anyone can buy what they are telling..
It's exacly like you are saying, they cant answer it straight forward, and there are a lot more errr,hmm,tut, I know I know than there are real words in their statements. And at the end you really can't get a hold of anything they say.There is no points, and they never really answers the questions they are being asked.

Like K + G in a interview when asked how Madeleien was on the holliday, they start talking about how lovely she is, social she is , beautiful she is, and things back home and so on..Has nothing to do with the question being asked..
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