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Post by aiyoyo on 14.04.12 16:12

@tigger wrote:Copied from:

The McCanns’ libelling of others: 1. Martin Grime
aiyoyo Today at 2:41 pm on 14/4/2012


“The dogs ultimately ‘alerted’. I felt myself starting to relax a little. This was not what I would call an exact science”. Dr Kate McCann is clearly querying Mr Grimes’ expertise.

If that is lifted from her bewk, then I think it is yet another phrase that should go into the Forensic Linguistic Thread.
Why did kate start to feel relax when the dogs alerted. It does not make sense. An alert means a dead body had been in the car (no matter whose).

More importantly when she said "I felt myself starting to relax a little"- it suggests she was very tensed about the operation? It's a dead give-away she feared what the dogs might find.
Otherwise why should she be tensed? What is there to be nervous about if you're innocent and know without a shadow of doubt there's no way the dogs will find anything in the car.

But hey, this woman was relieved because she alleged the dogs alerted due to cueing. But she conveniently forgot that no matter what, the handler cant force the dogs to bark or to mark.

It's as if kate believes an owner can get a dog to bark each time it smells a stranger walks past a high fencing or closed door, in the same manner they can get they pet bull dog to bite if they dont like to hear what people are saying.
unquote

Blimey that's quick Tigger, thanks.

I have edited one word due to spelling error.
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Post by tigger on 15.04.12 9:20

From:http://www.madeleinefoundation.org.uk/Investigators.html
by John Whitehouse 2009.
This is a PDF document. There's also an interesting snippet re CR in it.
Quote:
Now we look at the reaction of the McCanns and their official spokesman, Clarence Mitchell, to this grim news that Madeleine’s body may be at the foot of a murky lake in Portugal. Most parents - and their advisers - would be utterly distraught at the possible news that their daughter had been cruelly snatched, killed and her body dumped in a reservoir. But here are their reactions:

Dr Gerald and Dr Kate McCann said they: “…believe it could be a key step in clearing their name”. A friend revealed: “They're not punching the air as they know there's still a long way to go, but it's a step in the right direction”.

Clarence Mitchell said he: “…welcomed the possible breakthrough: ‘We're grateful to anyone who feels they have important information in the search for Madeleine. There was no air of celebration, but it's the sort of thing we have been waiting for. We hope that his comments are an indication police realise there's no case against Kate and Gerry and that it leads to them being eliminated from the inquiry’.”

To sum up their reaction to this dreadful news of Madeleine possibly being dead at the bottom of a lake, both the McCanns and their chief spokesman appear to be pleased, ‘welcoming’ the news’ in fact - but not quite ‘celebrating’ or ‘punching the air’.
unquote.

To misquote Churchill:
Never before have so many blunders been committed by so few people. (sorry!)

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Post by PeterMac on 15.04.12 9:27

Or there again, they were elated that so much attention was being given to looking in the wrong place.

Every time Gerry is asked about 'sightings' he smirks. grins, and can barely contain himself from laughing out loud and saying something.
The videos are there for all to see.
It reminds me of the scene from some play or farce, where a waiter is heard in the kitchen saying to the chef "They've EATEN it !!", and the sound of raucous laughter follows.
In this case "They've still not found it.
Get Mitchell to flower it up and they could be there for weeks."


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Post by Nina on 15.04.12 9:53

And a retrieval from the bottom of a murky lake, why would that clear the McCanns?

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Post by alfie02 on 15.04.12 10:02

@Nina wrote:And a retrieval from the bottom of a murky lake, why would that clear the McCanns?



I think they will be hoping that if Madeleinne was found, there would be nothing to link them to whatever forensics are on her body, by way of abuse as she has been gone for nearly 5 years, so will be virtually nothing to stipulate the cause of death x
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Post by rainbow-fairy on 15.04.12 10:18

@alfie02 wrote:
@Nina wrote:And a retrieval from the bottom of a murky lake, why would that clear the McCanns?



I think they will be hoping that if Madeleinne was found, there would be nothing to link them to whatever forensics are on her body, by way of abuse as she has been gone for nearly 5 years, so will be virtually nothing to stipulate the cause of death x
I wouldn't be too sure - its amazing what a forensic anthropologist can tell you... From very old bones at that!

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Post by Nina on 15.04.12 10:23

@alfie02 wrote:
@Nina wrote:And a retrieval from the bottom of a murky lake, why would that clear the McCanns?



I think they will be hoping that if Madeleinne was found, there would be nothing to link them to whatever forensics are on her body, by way of abuse as she has been gone for nearly 5 years, so will be virtually nothing to stipulate the cause of death x

Hello alfie02, I suppose by this time then they will be hoping there is no forensic evidence to link to them wherever her body might be found.
They just didn't show any sorrow at the prospect of her body laying at the bottom of a murky lake.

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Post by PeterMac on 15.04.12 10:28

There is a skeleton in the caves in Nerja, ca. 40,000 BC of a woman who, it has been fairly conclusively established, died of brain complications from otitis media.
People are still finding more about the cause of death of Tutenkhamen.
The thing they fear most is the finding.
Which is why "sightings" are always good news, and searches in places more than a few metres from wherever Madeleine's remains might be are also good news.
For TM, Tapas7, Mitchell et al. of course.
Not for truth, honesty, decency, or mankind as a whole.

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Post by alfie02 on 15.04.12 10:32

@Nina wrote:
@alfie02 wrote:
@Nina wrote:And a retrieval from the bottom of a murky lake, why would that clear the McCanns?



I think they will be hoping that if Madeleinne was found, there would be nothing to link them to whatever forensics are on her body, by way of abuse as she has been gone for nearly 5 years, so will be virtually nothing to stipulate the cause of death x

Hello alfie02, I suppose by this time then they will be hoping there is no forensic evidence to link to them wherever her body might be found.
They just didn't show any sorrow at the prospect of her body laying at the bottom of a murky lake.
Ys thats what i meant. There maybe no fibres etc left to link them to her unless she is "buried" with the missing blanketForensic linguistics -  - Page 9 110921
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Post by Nina on 15.04.12 10:39

@PeterMac wrote:There is a skeleton in the caves in Nerja, ca. 40,000 BC of a woman who, it has been fairly conclusively established, died of brain complications from otitis media.
People are still finding more about the cause of death of Tutenkhamen.
The thing they fear most is the finding.
Which is why "sightings" are always good news, and searches in places more than a few metres from wherever Madeleine's remains might be are also good news.
For TM, Tapas7, Mitchell et al. of course.
Not for truth, honesty, decency, or mankind as a whole.

PeterMac, yet another commonsense and boosting post.

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Post by tigger on 15.04.12 10:39

@alfie02 wrote:
@Nina wrote:
@alfie02 wrote:
@Nina wrote:And a retrieval from the bottom of a murky lake, why would that clear the McCanns?



I think they will be hoping that if Madeleinne was found, there would be nothing to link them to whatever forensics are on her body, by way of abuse as she has been gone for nearly 5 years, so will be virtually nothing to stipulate the cause of death x

Hello alfie02, I suppose by this time then they will be hoping there is no forensic evidence to link to them wherever her body might be found.
They just didn't show any sorrow at the prospect of her body laying at the bottom of a murky lake.
Ys thats what i meant. There maybe no fibres etc left to link them to her unless she is "buried" with the missing blanketForensic linguistics -  - Page 9 110921

Nina
One detail in the link re the Arade dam says they retrieved a long rope with which Maddie had been bound.
If I got that news even twenty years later, I'd still be hysterical with renewed grief , evidence of the suffering of my little girl - the rope they bound her with - I could not contemplate the horror of it. Cyborgs don't have these problems.

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Post by Nina on 15.04.12 10:43

@tigger wrote:
@alfie02 wrote:
@Nina wrote:
@alfie02 wrote:
@Nina wrote:And a retrieval from the bottom of a murky lake, why would that clear the McCanns?



I think they will be hoping that if Madeleinne was found, there would be nothing to link them to whatever forensics are on her body, by way of abuse as she has been gone for nearly 5 years, so will be virtually nothing to stipulate the cause of death x

Hello alfie02, I suppose by this time then they will be hoping there is no forensic evidence to link to them wherever her body might be found.
They just didn't show any sorrow at the prospect of her body laying at the bottom of a murky lake.
Ys thats what i meant. There maybe no fibres etc left to link them to her unless she is "buried" with the missing blanketForensic linguistics -  - Page 9 110921

Nina
One detail in the link re the Arade dam says they retrieved a long rope with which Maddie had been bound.
If I got that news even twenty years later, I'd still be hysterical with renewed grief , evidence of the suffering of my little girl - the rope they bound her with - I could not contemplate the horror of it. Cyborgs don't have these problems.
Tigger they don't show any horror about anything imo. Or has the most horrifying event not yet happened?

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Post by Guest on 15.04.12 22:44

I always find the statement analysis blog very interesting and thought this little test is quite pertinent to the McCann's and which side they fit into.....

Would amend the polygraph test to:
Innocent parents take and pass polygraphs
Guilty parents don't take or fail polygraphs

I'm sure there are many more that could be added..
-----------------

Innocent parents react one way; guilty parents react another. 


Cindy Anthony Objection:  "There's no book on grieving" or "there's no book on how to react to a missing child."


Answer:  yes, there is. 


Now 


It's thousands and thousands of pages long and it is written in the hearts of investigators everywhere, and in studies of criminal psychologists, and in academies of law enforcement in our country and internationally.  It comes down to this:


Innocent parents help.                               Guilty parents hinder. 
Innocent  parents talk.                               Guilty parents say little.
Innocent parents are desperate.               Guilty parents keep things close to the vest.
Innocent parents pass polygraphs.           Guilty parents fail them. 
Innocent parents search.                            Guilty parents complain. 
Innocent parents interview.                      Guilty parents lawyer up. 


Innocent parents care nothing but for finding the missing child; guilty parents are concerned about their reputations and public perception.

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/behavioral-analysis-answers-for-ayla.html
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Post by tigger on 11.05.12 9:04

I've been looking for this and found the quote - but don't have a page number. However:


".... is this what my life would be from now on? I could never be joyful again in public without guilt overwhelming me"
Unquote.

Now why does guilt only overwhelm you when you are joyful in public and it doesn't bother you presumably in private?
Why does it matter where you are as to how you feel about your daughters' disappearance?
Please don't start your reply with 'To be honest...'

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Post by friedtomatoes on 12.05.12 23:28

Stewie wrote:I always find the statement analysis blog very interesting and thought this little test is quite pertinent to the McCann's and which side they fit into.....

Would amend the polygraph test to:
Innocent parents take and pass polygraphs
Guilty parents don't take or fail polygraphs

I'm sure there are many more that could be added..
-----------------

Innocent parents react one way; guilty parents react another. 


Cindy Anthony Objection:  "There's no book on grieving" or "there's no book on how to react to a missing child."


Answer:  yes, there is. 


Now 


It's thousands and thousands of pages long and it is written in the hearts of investigators everywhere, and in studies of criminal psychologists, and in academies of law enforcement in our country and internationally.  It comes down to this:


Innocent parents help.                               Guilty parents hinder. 
Innocent  parents talk.                               Guilty parents say little.
Innocent parents are desperate.               Guilty parents keep things close to the vest.
Innocent parents pass polygraphs.           Guilty parents fail them. 
Innocent parents search.                            Guilty parents complain. 
Innocent parents interview.                      Guilty parents lawyer up. 


Innocent parents care nothing but for finding the missing child; guilty parents are concerned about their reputations and public perception.

http://seamusoriley.blogspot.co.uk/2012/04/behavioral-analysis-answers-for-ayla.html
agreed

especially when said parents are not suspects but lawyer up from day one
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Post by tigger on 20.05.12 11:20

I can't find this item on this topic - if I have already posted it - apologies. Just trying to keep a lot of similar information in one place!


Gerry being heard as an arguido on september 7th 2007:

Blood was mentioned. The defence lawyer reacting to this, i.e. Gerry's lawyer, tried to explain it away. To no avail:

The defence lawyer said that he wishes the arguido to be asked again if Madeleine bled. To which he said it was common for
Madeleine to have nosebleeds. He says that he doesn’t know if in fact his daughter bled while on holiday in Portugal, because he
does not want to be influenced by the news in the Press, regarding the detection of human blood in the apartment where his daughter disappeared.

Bleeding occurred: before May 3rd.
Press comments: after May 3rd.

How could Gerry's observing his daughters bleeding BEFORE may 3rd have been compromised by the media attention AFTER May 3rd??


So to recap: it depends on what appears in the Press whether Gerry will be able to remember it or not?




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Post by jmac on 20.05.12 12:37

The important thing, at this time, is that we don`t have Madeleine and, err... that`s the only, err ... result that`ll clearly make Kate and I happy, and the rest of the family.

(BBC World Service 19 June 2007)

So says Gerry, but does he realise what he`s just said ?
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Post by sweetex on 20.05.12 13:35

@jmac wrote:The important thing, at this time, is that we don`t have Madeleine and, err... that`s the only, err ... result that`ll clearly make Kate and I happy, and the rest of the family.

(BBC World Service 19 June 2007)

So says Gerry, but does he realise what he`s just said ?

Didn't read the whole thread but when I read this, I had to add:

Gerry: "We think that if M been taken or killed , there would have been evidence" http://www.mccannfiles.com/id169.html

What a nutter

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Post by tigger on 20.05.12 18:07

@jmac wrote:The important thing, at this time, is that we don`t have Madeleine and, err... that`s the only, err ... result that`ll clearly make Kate and I happy, and the rest of the family.

(BBC World Service 19 June 2007)

So says Gerry, but does he realise what he`s just said ?

They do seem to have trouble defining the importance of finding Madeleine, there are so many examples here of : e.g.
our ultimate goal to find M.
finding Madeleine would be one of a number of possible significant developments. (Not THE ONLY significant development).

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Post by tigger on 31.05.12 19:45

I just came across another nugget by Payne in the RI.
Considering that the body was likely kept in a fridge or freezer and the repair that had to be done in 5a was to the washing machine - is Payne once again battling his leaking memory ? He gets the blinds right but not the washing machine.

quote:
1485 "Yeah. Was there anybody around the resort or you know your, the Ocean Club in general that you weren’t happy with?”
Reply "Err we, you know we did obviously retrospectively question you know who’d been in, in to the resort to actually work there. They, on one of the days they had some err gardening people which we hadn’t you know seen before and we you know we just wondered, you know, after Madeleine had gone err you know who they were and what their you know validity was if you like. Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they’d had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well. Err yeah that, you know who were those people, had they been checked out.”
1485 "Mm.”
unquote

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Post by bobbin on 31.05.12 21:38

@tigger wrote:I just came across another nugget by Payne in the RI.
Considering that the body was likely kept in a fridge or freezer and the repair that had to be done in 5a was to the washing machine - is Payne once again battling his leaking memory ? He gets the blinds right but not the washing machine.

quote:
1485 "Yeah. Was there anybody around the resort or you know your, the Ocean Club in general that you weren’t happy with?”
Reply "Err we, you know we did obviously retrospectively question you know who’d been in, in to the resort to actually work there. They, on one of the days they had some err gardening people which we hadn’t you know seen before and we you know we just wondered, you know, after Madeleine had gone err you know who they were and what their you know validity was if you like. Err the, I know that again, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with I think it was the blinds in their flat and the fridge and they’d had people in err you know into the flat, you know which obviously retrospectively was a concern as well. Err yeah that, you know who were those people, had they been checked out.”
1485 "Mm.”
unquote

Tigger I've just seen this, from the thread, the Fridge, on Missing Madeleine site, if I may mention. Apparently the ref web site has also been whooshed, but I'm sure someone here will have the Payne rogatory interviews, and if not, then at least the Portuguese police should have them. Anyway it's a second reference to the fridge which many of us are certain we read before they were disappeared.


"Paul Rees
Remember on Gerry McCann's blog where he wrote he disposed of a broken fridge at a dump, then replaced it?
It was seen as dead suss at the time as it would be the villa owner's
responsibility then he deleted all mention of it from his blog and his
supporters denied all knowledge of a broken fridge.
As luck would
have it, I was perusing the police files yesterday and it's mentioned
by David Payne, proving its existence, so I hope the Met are exploring
what happened to it.
"Err the, I know that, you know Kate and Gerry had had problems err with the fridge in their flat" #mccann - Dr Payne
www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/​DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/​DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://​www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/​DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

Yesterday at 3:14am ·

So......why would the McCanns need to dispose of a Fridge?" Forensic linguistics -  - Page 9 173510
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Post by Guest on 31.05.12 21:59

We have to be very careful about internet myths.
The McCanns had a [reported] problem with the washing machine and a [proven] mechanic to fix it in 5A.
Gerry replacing a fridge/freezer from the villa, after being ousted from the OC, has been reported by many, but cannot be documented [anymore].
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Post by bobbin on 31.05.12 23:03

Châtelaine wrote:We have to be very careful about internet myths.
The McCanns had a [reported] problem with the washing machine and a [proven] mechanic to fix it in 5A.
Gerry replacing a fridge/freezer from the villa, after being ousted from the OC, has been reported by many, but cannot be documented [anymore].


I appreciate that but has anyone got the full David Payne interviews stored. I have been through what I can find, a long winded job.

If anyone can locate the quoted ref in the previous post then it will be helpful.
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Post by sami on 31.05.12 23:14

The maintenance man visited Kate to show her how to use the washing machine, i.e. he did not fix an actual fault with it. The repair during the visit was carried out to one of the window blinds which Kate said Gerry broke.
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Post by jd on 01.06.12 0:27

@sami wrote:The maintenance man visited Kate to show her how to use the washing machine, i.e. he did not fix an actual fault with it. The repair during the visit was carried out to one of the window blinds which Kate said Gerry broke.

He said he was asked how to show kate mccann how to use the washing machine, which I find odd as a washing machine is a washing machine whatever country you are in. The shutters they fixed (I think) from the statement was not Maddies bedroom, but the one on the other side of the apartment. Probably the patio door side
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