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(2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.11.11 8:24

Anonymous contributions to this debate keep coming in to my inbox. Here's the latest:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

YOU SAID

No where in the files does it confirm that any DNA retrieved from the apartment was found to have belonged to the victim or that a DNA profile of the victim
was compiled by using any genetic material found in the apartment.

___________________________

There will be DNA evidence of Madeleine, ie skin cells, possibly 50 cells per square mm which seems copious but it is NOT.

The Police will not disregard this copious evidence but it does not form part of a criminal investigation. The same

goes for G AND K mccann. Where is the confirmation that their DNA 50 cells per square mm all over apartment 5A?

The fact that the family lived in 5A is not a crime or a potential crime. (Look at the baby Lisa enquiry). They are

not recording her DNA for criminal purposes because SHE LIVED in the house.

The criminal investigation centres on the places where there is visible blood and invisible remnant of blood (per the sniffer dogs).

The whole 5A has been swept for ALL DNA but the mccanns and their 7 friends DNA has been recorded but not as part of the criminal investigation.

DO YOU SUPPOSE THAT THE FORENSICS will say, oh yes, here is all the DNA evidence

that M sat on the sofa then sat on a chair then sat on the floor then sat on the toilet? IT IS NOT A CRIME TO BE DOING THESE THINGS.

Why should this be recorded as part of the criminal investigation? It is recorded but not for public consumption

YOURS EVERMORE AND TRULY

BTW - YOUR FRIEND WHO POSTS HERE IS UP THE CREEK WITHOUT A PADDLE
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by jd on 22.11.11 8:51

I don't think he has worked out yet that apartment 5a is a 'crime scene'!

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by jd on 22.11.11 8:54

This is a question to anyone who can answer. The practice of DZ twins, is there any reason why this would need to be covered up?

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 22.11.11 8:57

The Roman Catholic Church maybe?
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by jd on 22.11.11 9:11

Maybe thats why the Vatican whooshed them off their website shortly after 'the visit'!

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 22.11.11 9:44

@Tony Bennett wrote:Anonymous contributions to this debate keep coming in to my inbox. Here's the latest:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The criminal investigation centres on the places where there is visible blood and invisible remnant of blood (per the sniffer dogs).

DO YOU SUPPOSE THAT THE FORENSICS will say, oh yes, here is all the DNA evidence



MATERIAL RECEIVED

There were received 258 traces and 12 reference samples - bucal swabs from 11 individuals.

DESCRIPTION OF MATERIAL RECEIVED


TRACES

Relating to Apartment no. 5-A in the tourist resort "The Ocean Club" Praia da Luz-Lagos
:

- 32 hairs in envelope no. 1 recovered from the floor at the entrance to the children's bedroom.

- 28 hairs in envelope no. 2 recovered from the floor next to the bed from which the child disappeared.

- 4 hair in envelope no. 3 recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared.

- 15 hairs in envelope no. 4 recovered from the floor next to the bed that was next to the window in the children's bedroom.

- 1 piece of cloth in envelope no. 5 recovered from the bedspread of the bed next to the window in the children's bedroom. Fragment of cloth, mauve/violet in colour with square motifs, circular in form about 10cm in diameter. A small fluorescent spot is observed under a Crime-light.

- 31 hairs in envelope No. 6 recovered from the floor of the lounge.

- 58 hairs in envelope No. 7 recovered from the entrance hall at the front door of the apartment.

[The above were] Delivered by the Policia Judiciaria on 08/05/2007.


RESULTS

1- Morphology analysis of the hairs

All hairs received for analysis were subjected to macro- and microscopic characterisation, with the majority of those having the root being in a telogenic phase.


Relating to Apartment no. 5-A

- Envelope No. 1 - "recovered from the floor at the entrance to the children's bedroom" 25 hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem; 3 hairs non-human.

- Envelope No. 2 - "recovered from the floor next to the bed from which the child disappeared" 3 hairs with root; 25 hairs only stem.

- Envelope No. 3 - "recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared" 2 hairs with root; 2 hairs only stem.

- Envelope No. 4 - " recovered from the floor next to the bed that was next to the window in the children's bedroom" ll hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem.

- Envelope no. 6 - "recovered from the floor of the lounge" 26 hairs with root; 4 hairs only stem; l hair non-human.

- Envelope no. 7 - "recovered from the entrance hall at the front door of the apartment" 44 hairs with root; 8 hairs only stem; 6 hairs non-human.
[/b]



CONCLUSIONS

1st- The macro- and microscopic analysis of 257 hairs revealed 245 human
and 12 non-human.

2nd- With respect to autosomic STRs the genetic profiles of the following analysed samples matched with the reference sample indicated:

- hair root CEnv 7-51 recovered in the apartment (entrance hall-Env.7) matched with Gerald McCann, father of the victim.

- hair root PVT07 recovered in the vehicle (floor in front of rear seat Env.4) match with Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat.

3rd- With respect to autosomic STRs the female genetic profile identified from hair root C742-05 recovered in the vehicle (floor in front of the front seat- Env 3) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

5th- In the samples from apartment 5-A, several mitochondrial DNA profiles were found:

- Profile identified by letter "C", present in 53 samples, was identical to that of Kate Healy, mother of the victim, meaning those samples were from her or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "N", present in 24 samples, was identical to that of Gerald McCann, father of the victim, meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "G", present in 1 samples, was identical to that of Matthew David Oldfield, meaning that sample was from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "I", present in 1 samples, was identical to that of David Anthony Payne, meaning that sample was from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "O", present in 2 samples, was identical to that of Russell James O'Brien, meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples. affraid

- Profiles identified by letters "B", "D", "F", "J" and "Q" are different from the above, and from each other, and are distinct from reference samples. (Who do these ones belong to?)

6th- In the samples analysed from Residencia Liliana and the vehicle, several mitochondrial DNA profiles were found:

- Profile identified by letter "M", present in 48 samples (35 from Residencia Liliana and 13 from the vehicle), was identical to that of Robert James Queriol Eveleigh Murat meaning those samples were from him or from someone having the same maternal bloodline.

- Profile identified by letter "K", present in 14 samples (1 from Residencia Liliana and 13 from the vehicle), meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

- One of the 13 samples from the vehicle in letter "K" - hair root C742-05 (floor in front of the front seat - Env 3) showed a female DNA genetic profile.

7th- The remaining 28 samples analysed, of which 17 were recovered from the apartment, showed mitochondrial DNA from different from each other, and distinct from those above.

8th- Of the 245 hairs analysed, no results were obtained from 52.

National Institute of Legal Medicine, 9 July 2007.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 22.11.11 10:08

Out of 245 human hairs analysed:

52 - no results were obtained from these ones

53 belonged to Kate

24 belonged to Gerry

1 belonged to David Payne

1 belonged to Matthew Oldfield

2 belonged to Russell O'Brien

7 came from the bed under the window and did not match to any of the reference samples

2 from the top of Madeleine's bed

You do not need to be a mathematician to know that the numbers do not add up. Interestingly there is a batch of 'hidden' profiles.

Profiles identified by letters "B", "D", "F", "J" and "Q" are different from the above, and from each other, and are distinct from reference samples.

Whose identities are being protected here ??
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Tony Bennett on 22.11.11 21:20

I think this is the fourth communication from Mr Anonymous, the 'Capital Letter' man.

This time it's come in via: "Nomen Nescio" nobody@dizum.com

And here it is:


STELLA wrote:

You do not need to be a mathematician to know that the numbers do not add up. Interestingly there is a batch of 'hidden' profiles.

Profiles identified by letters "B", "D", "F", "J" and "Q" are different from the above, and from each other, and are distinct from reference samples.

Whose identities are being protected here ??

=======


IN PARTICULAR ----

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) DID NOT MATCH any profilefrom the reference samples

(7 hairs came from the bed under the window and DID NOT MATCH to any of the reference samples)

YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. YOU CANNOT CLAIM COVER-UP (PROTECTION) AND STATE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTOR. THIS INFORMATION HAS EXISTED FOR 4 YEARS SO YOU CANNOT SAY THAT YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND WITH MORE ENLIGHTENING INFORMATION. THIS IS OLD NEWS RIGHT FROM THE START OF THE INVESTIGATION. THIS INFORMATION WILL STAY ON FILE UNTIL THOSE DNA PROFILES TURN UP IN A CRIME ELSEWHERE.


YOU KEEP INSISTING THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTOR BUT THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF DNA AND FORENSICS FROM SEVERAL UNIDENTIFIED PERSONS (ONE OF WHOM COULD EASILY BE T H E ABDUCTOR) MANY OF WHOM WILL BE PAST RESIDENTS,FRIENDS OF PAST RESIDENTS, CLEANERS, REPAIR MEN, THE OWNERS, RUTH MCCANN AND HER LATE HUSBAND.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by jd on 22.11.11 21:50

Its not only DNA which is proving no evidence of an abductor, there are many other factors too

And as there are many unidentified DNA's, this does not mean or prove any of them will be from an abductor(s)

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by jd on 22.11.11 22:46

British Rule Out Abduction

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the United Kingdom (Foreign & Commonwealth Office) does not held Madeleine McCann's disappearance recorded as an abduction, thus accepting that there is no evidence to suggest that a crime of that nature has taken place; exactly what was concluded by the Portuguese Judiciary Police investigation initially led by Gonçalo Amaral and that is mirrored in the book “Maddie - The Truth of the Lie”.

In a reply to an investigator, who requested [FOIA PDF here] information regarding British missing children abroad, the Consular Directorate of the Foreign Office - dated December 14, 2009 to which the CM had access - affirmed: “The FCO filed the case in May 2008 [Ben Needham]. You will also be aware of the Madeleine McCann case. Both this and the Needham case are categorised as a missing persons, rather than child abduction cases, as there is no evidence in either case to support whether the children were or were not abducted.”.

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 23.11.11 8:28

@Tony Bennett wrote:I think this is the fourth communication from Mr Anonymous, the 'Capital Letter' man.

This time it's come in via: "Nomen Nescio" nobody@dizum.com

And here it is:


STELLA wrote:

You do not need to be a mathematician to know that the numbers do not add up. Interestingly there is a batch of 'hidden' profiles.

Profiles identified by letters "B", "D", "F", "J" and "Q" are different from the above, and from each other, and are distinct from reference samples.

Whose identities are being protected here ??

=======


IN PARTICULAR ----

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) DID NOT MATCH any profilefrom the reference samples

(7 hairs came from the bed under the window and DID NOT MATCH to any of the reference samples)

YOU CANNOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. YOU CANNOT CLAIM COVER-UP (PROTECTION) AND STATE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTOR. THIS INFORMATION HAS EXISTED FOR 4 YEARS SO YOU CANNOT SAY THAT YOU CHANGED YOUR MIND WITH MORE ENLIGHTENING INFORMATION. THIS IS OLD NEWS RIGHT FROM THE START OF THE INVESTIGATION. THIS INFORMATION WILL STAY ON FILE UNTIL THOSE DNA PROFILES TURN UP IN A CRIME ELSEWHERE.


YOU KEEP INSISTING THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF AN ABDUCTOR BUT THERE IS OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE OF DNA AND FORENSICS FROM SEVERAL UNIDENTIFIED PERSONS (ONE OF WHOM COULD EASILY BE T H E ABDUCTOR) MANY OF WHOM WILL BE PAST RESIDENTS,FRIENDS OF PAST RESIDENTS, CLEANERS, REPAIR MEN, THE OWNERS, RUTH MCCANN AND HER LATE HUSBAND.

The stain, being semen, came from the previous occupant who stayed in the apartment the week before. Chances are the hairs are his as well. Or, perhaps they belong to the tall thin man who arranged the block booking with Madeleine on the Sunday, who has never been identified or named as yet? Perhaps they belong to one of the "10 or 12 people who used to enter the apartment", as Moita Flores said. We know about 9, so who are the other 3? It seems to me that the Tapas 9 may not have been very truthful about everyone they knew out there.

At the end of the day, the window shows no sign of a break in, the lichen was undisturbed and who in their right mind is going to roll around on the bed on the opposite side of the bedroom to where Madeleine was laying.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by tigger on 23.11.11 11:15

Stella wrote:
@tigger wrote:Hi Stella, I just highlighted part of a statement by Mrs. Fenn in the topic on the interview with her niece.

In it she says she wasn't even aware that that family was living in 5a.

I'm not the least bit surprised to hear that tigger. It has baffled me from the start as to how Mrs Fenn only ever heard the one crying episode, despite there being 3 children, between 2-4 years of age, in an apartment that would echo really badly. This tells me that they could not have been living there and the apartment was used as a means to facilitate the abduction. This could be why the PJ witheld the OC daily run reports from when they arrived on the 28th, until the 1st May.

Way to go! So, if the 'accident' happened very early - as early as the 28th. it would be possible for Maddie to have been in 5a - possibly mostly by herself, for a short time. Imo 5a wasn't used after she died. Just that the cleaner came in on Sunday - where was Maddie then? I'm not convinced she was the girl seen by the cleaner.

The twins, I'm pretty sure, slept in the children's apartment. As the phone records show unusual activity very early in the holiday, there is a possibility of Maddie being 'ill' and dying very early

Now there was nothing in the apartment to show children were having a holiday, no toys, no drawings, nothing they took along from the creche - something they would have made. No cuddly toys.

It would have been most useful to have another empty apartment in the same block. 5a being designated as the stage. But I'm still stuck with the Burgau angle which imo is crucial. The two photographs which were probably taken there could well be from the same time period. In one she looks drugged. It is possible that this 'photo shoot' was done on the Sunday and Maddie's death is related to what happened in Burgau. There is a connection to JT and RM at that location.

I'm just trying to say that Maddie's blood and the cadaver odour would then date to the first two days. There would otherwise be little evidence of her DNA, certainly if she was comatose most of the time.

Haven't got my laptop which died two weeks ago, so it's difficult to scroll through on antiquated equipment!

This topic is v.v.v. interesting. Although none of the DNA evidence is admissible, the whole of the background is and seems to me at least as incriminating as the original findings.

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Me on 25.11.11 8:42

Is it possible to tell if these two samples came from the same genetic profile:

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

I am reading it as if they are different samples from different people.

Were either of these profiles ever matched?

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 25.11.11 9:26

@Me wrote:Is it possible to tell if these two samples came from the same genetic profile:

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

I am reading it as if they are different samples from different people.

Were either of these profiles ever matched?

Hi Me, I know how confusing these things are, but I'm reading this as, Profile "L" matches to the spot on the bedspread 'and' in 7 hairs. But did not match to any known Profile they had.

This is because it belonged to a boy 'allegedly' who was staying in that apartment the week before. I kept this from somewhere.

Amongst these witnesses, Saleigh and Paul Gordon, accompanied by their two children, occupied apartment 5A before the McCanns, between April 21st and 28th 2007. Questioned several times by the investigators, the couple maintain that, "the doors, windows and shutters of the apartment were all in good condition," even stressing that given the noise made by the bedroom shutters, it would be impossible to open or shut them without it being noticed by neighbours or passers-by.

Since January Paul Gordon has been contacted several times by Brian Kennedy, Kate and Gerry McCann: "There are times when I feel like a chess pawn." Paul Gordon said.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Me on 25.11.11 9:55

Stella wrote:
@Me wrote:Is it possible to tell if these two samples came from the same genetic profile:

4th- With respect to autosomic STRs the male genetic profile identified from the spot on the cloth fragment (bedspread of the bed next to window in the children's bedroom- Env 5) did not match any profile from the reference samples.

- Profile identified by letter "L", present in the spot on the bedspread of the bed next to the window and in seven hairs, meaning that all these samples came from the same person or from someone having the same maternal bloodline, did not match any of the reference samples.

I am reading it as if they are different samples from different people.

Were either of these profiles ever matched?

Hi Me, I know how confusing these things are, but I'm reading this as, Profile "L" matches to the spot on the bedspread 'and' in 7 hairs. But did not match to any known Profile they had.

This is because it belonged to a boy 'allegedly' who was staying in that apartment the week before. I kept this from somewhere.

Amongst these witnesses, Saleigh and Paul Gordon, accompanied by their two children, occupied apartment 5A before the McCanns, between April 21st and 28th 2007. Questioned several times by the investigators, the couple maintain that, "the doors, windows and shutters of the apartment were all in good condition," even stressing that given the noise made by the bedroom shutters, it would be impossible to open or shut them without it being noticed by neighbours or passers-by.

Since January Paul Gordon has been contacted several times by Brian Kennedy, Kate and Gerry McCann: "There are times when I feel like a chess pawn." Paul Gordon said.

So is it safe to assume these hairs on the bed all came from the same person (i.e. the child staying the week before).

Was there any match to these:

Envelope No. 3 - "recovered from the top of the bed from which the child disappeared" 2 hairs with root; 2 hairs only stem.

Because what i'm thinking is if the "Pro's" are citing this as potential evidence of an abductor's DNA, why was it only on the bed and nowhere else in the apartment (i.e. the window or the doors, or bedroom floor)?

It strikes me that for there only to be hairs here would indicate that were they left by any potential abductor he could only have teleported in to that spot and out again the same way, becuase it doesn't make sense that no other DNA would be found fitting this profile elsewhere in the apartment, if the source had been an abductor who had entered and exited either by the door or the window.

____________________
What is certain is that since the start of the investigation there were  incongruent and even contradictory situations concerning the witness statements; the telephone records of calls that were made and received on mobile phones that belonged to the couple and to the group of friends that were on holidays with them; the movements of people right after the disappearance of the little girl was noticed, concerning the state in which the bedroom from where the child disappeared from was found (closed window? open window? partially open window?) etc., and the mystery would only become even thicker due to the clues that were left by the already mentioned sniffer dogs. - The Words of a JUDGE in relation to the McCanns

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 25.11.11 12:33

Me, I've been trying to think about this logically.

Some of those hairs must have come from the cleaners/MW staff/GNR/PJ and anyone else who went into that apartment to look out of the window. What a massive job it must have been collecting reference samples from everyone who went near that bedspread at 'any' point in time. It's obviously not cleaned between letts, so it could also contain hairs from everyone who stayed in that apartment since the season started some 3 or 4 weeks before. Which could be an infinite number of people.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by kikoraton on 25.11.11 19:25

Very interesting work by "Q".
Some of it is too complicated for me! This, in particular, confuses me:
With respect to the trace evidence recovered behind the sofa all the confirmed DNA components coincide with corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann.
And yet, it is still possible to claim that "no DNA of Maddie was ever found in 5A"???

Regarding the possibility (or probability, in my view) that a substitute played the part of Maddie McCann in the creche, could it be that the tops were worn by the substitute, and the hairs on them were hers?
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 26.11.11 10:16

I've been looking for the analysis on the DNA recovered from behind the sofa, to make sure I was right in thinking that only 4 markers in total were recovered from the blood found under the tiles and that every one of those 4 markers appears in Madeleine's profile. It must be said that these same 4 markers could also appear in someone elses profile, so you could look at this in two ways. It does not confirm for sure it was Madeleine. But in the same token, it cannot prove in any way it was not her either.

I have produced a little chart to help illustrate the number of markers countries use in order to try and convict someone.

19
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
A 100% match is the equivalent of 19 markers
15 markers from bodily fluids found in the hire car, match Madeleine's profile
All 4 markers found under the tiles, match to Madeleine's profile
11 markers is all that is needed in some US states for a conviction
13 markers in other US states, is all that is needed for a conviction
Under Portuguese Law, all 19 markers are needed for a conviction

The black line is the lowest figure at which any country mentioned will convict someone and as you can see the blood found under the tiles is way below that level.

It is up to a good lawyer to argue how significant the final results are. This is why the McCann's continuously bleat on about there being no evidence. The 4 markers under the tiles, which all appear in Madeleine's profile, could also appear in someone from her maternal bloodline. BUT, no markers found did not appear in Madeleine's profile, which is also very significant. It would only take one non-matching marker to be found for some to claim that it was a contaminated sample. But as it stands, they cannot say this.

The 15 markers found in the hire car is another matter altogether. Originally it was reported as 15/19 markers, but then the infamous John Lowe report later mentions contaminated samples, with even more markers added to the mix. It is important here to remember that 15 markers found still match to Madeleine. But we are being forced to consider by the defence that other people have also contributed to this sample, which means it is no longer significant.

They have the DNA profile of the person who collected the sample. They have the DNA profile of the person at the FSS who tested the samples. So if they wanted to, they could have shown this in the final report for everyone to see how many markers are not in Madeleine's profile, but they did not.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Nina on 26.11.11 10:22

Stella wrote:I've been looking for the analysis on the DNA recovered from behind the sofa, to make sure I was right in thinking that only 4 markers in total were recovered from the blood found under the tiles and that every one of those 4 markers appears in Madeleine's profile. It must be said that these same 4 markers could also appear in someone elses profile, so you could look at this in two ways. It does not confirm for sure it was Madeleine. But in the same token, it cannot prove in any way it was not her either.

I have produced a little chart to help illustrate the number of markers countries use in order to try and convict someone.

19
18
17
16
15
14
13
12
11
10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
A 100% match is the equivalent of 19 markers
15 markers from bodily fluids found in the hire car, match Madeleine's profile
All 4 markers found under the tiles, match to Madeleine's profile
11 markers is all that is needed in some US states for a conviction
13 markers in other US states, is all that is needed for a conviction
Under Portuguese Law, all 19 markers are needed for a conviction


The black line is the lowest figure at which any country mentioned will convict someone and as you can see the blood found under the tiles is way below that level.

It is up to a good lawyer to argue how significant the final results are. This is why the McCann's continuously bleat on about there being no evidence. The 4 markers under the tiles, which all appear in Madeleine's profile, could also appear in someone from her maternal bloodline. BUT, no markers found did not appear in Madeleine's profile, which is also very significant. It would only take one non-matching marker to be found for some to claim that it was a contaminated sample. But as it stands, they cannot say this.

The 15 markers found in the hire car is another matter altogether. Originally it was reported as 15/19 markers, but then the infamous John Lowe report later mentions contaminated samples, with even more markers added to the mix. It is important here to remember that 15 markers found still match to Madeleine. But we are being forced to consider by the defence that other people have also contributed to this sample, which means it is no longer significant.

They have the DNA profile of the person who collected the sample. They have the DNA profile of the person at the FSS who tested the samples. So if they wanted to, they could have shown this in the final report for everyone to see how many markers are not in Madeleine's profile, but they did not.



Stella, thankyou. With your post and diagram I now fully understand. Very clear

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 26.11.11 10:35

A timely reminder for Q's first question in relation to apartment 5a.

The first forensic sweep in May 2007, did not report any findings of anything pertaining to Madeleine's DNA profile.

The second forensic sweep in August 2007, they found blood underneath the floor tiles, hidden between the back of the sofa and the wall.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by HFS on 29.11.11 10:44

@jd wrote:British Rule Out Abduction

The Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the United Kingdom (Foreign & Commonwealth Office) does not held Madeleine McCann's disappearance recorded as an abduction, thus accepting that there is no evidence to suggest that a crime of that nature has taken place; exactly what was concluded by the Portuguese Judiciary Police investigation initially led by Gonçalo Amaral and that is mirrored in the book “Maddie - The Truth of the Lie”.

In a reply to an investigator, who requested [FOIA PDF here] information regarding British missing children abroad, the Consular Directorate of the Foreign Office - dated December 14, 2009 to which the CM had access - affirmed: “The FCO filed the case in May 2008 [Ben Needham]. You will also be aware of the Madeleine McCann case. Both this and the Needham case are categorised as a missing persons, rather than child abduction cases, as there is no evidence in either case to support whether the children were or were not abducted.”.

I wouldn't know where and how to find it, but do you know which missing children are listed as "abducted"?

Now back to the DNA. I could be wrong but didn't one of the samples link to an old crime scene?

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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by Guest on 29.11.11 10:51

@HFS wrote:I could be wrong but didn't one of the samples link to an old crime scene?

That doesn't ring any bells with me HFS.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by HFS on 03.12.11 20:29

I'll see if I can find it Stella, but like I've said I could be wrong. It's so long ago that I was following every little bit of information about the case.

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How reliable is DNA Evidence

Post by TrollAng on 04.12.11 21:17

I came across this in my travels today, very interesting. How to create fake DNA

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=lab-creates-fake-dna-evidence-2009-08-18

I'm still confused.

Hairs from crime scene were sent to a Portuguese lab along with DNA samples of T9 & subsequently Ocean Club employees. Some matched T9, some didn't but there's no reference to whether any matched Madeleine, Sean & Amelie who would also need to be excluded forensically?

The control sample was picked up in Rothley from Madeleine's pillow and now another control sample seems to have come from a heel prick sample which matched the saliva sample?

12 hairs were taken from 3 of Madeleine's tops, one was discounted as not being hers. None of the other 11 appear to have been matched against the control sample yet these were considered the hair control sample for the hire car?

The control sample from UK was never cross matched for a positive match for anything related to Madeleine in PDL?

"There is no evidence.." "Ask the dogs Sandra"

Interesting contrast in family living between 5A and the Villa. Toys & possessions everywhere.
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Re: (2 Appendices added) 'Q' wants to know why none of Madeleine's DNA was found in Apt G5A (Long)

Post by jd on 05.12.11 0:35

Its all a con. And the confusion is put out there on purpose to twist and confuse

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