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PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by IAmNotMerylStreep on 02.12.11 12:10

@aquila wrote:Why would you ask your mate to go check on your wife and kids? It was bath-time on holiday. It's not like the kids hadn't been bathed alone by their mother before. What's so difficult about bathing tired kids and putting them to bed on your own? or have I missed the point here? I thought DP went to say GM had decided to have another game of tennis and would be a bit late (can't remember where I read that one). Still, in either case it wouldn't matter a jot to the average person to bath and put the kids to bed. Just my opinion.

Goncalo Amaral once said "David Payne might like to explain what time he bathed the kids and for how long"

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by PeterMac on 02.12.11 12:32

I am also slightly sceptical that Gerry would have a bath and Kate would have a shower. In my experience it would normally be the other way round.

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by uppatoffee on 02.12.11 13:49

@PeterMac wrote:I am also slightly sceptical that Gerry would have a bath and Kate would have a shower. In my experience it would normally be the other way round.

I guess it depends on what you are doing in there I guess! Kate might have been washing her hair which would be much easier in the shower.
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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by aquila on 02.12.11 14:05

@PeterMac wrote:I am also slightly sceptical that Gerry would have a bath and Kate would have a shower. In my experience it would normally be the other way round.

that's a fantastic point. I've lived in a hot county and it's normal to bath kids (because it's easier to sit them in the bath) but it's so much more refreshing and easier to have a shower as an adult. Good point - and it's also much better to shower when you need to wash your hair - especially if you've been playing sport in the heat. I know this all seems like nit-picking but there are too many contradictions.
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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Ollie on 02.12.11 15:19

But Kate had already showered earlier, remember when David Payne came calling. The supposed last sighting of Madeleine alive by someone other than her parents.

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by aquila on 02.12.11 15:36

@Ollie wrote:But Kate had already showered earlier, remember when David Payne came calling. The supposed last sighting of Madeleine alive by someone other than her parents.

I seem to remember reading different accounts on that one (how strange to be confused) that she was wrapped in a towel when DP called and he was there for a brief moment on the doorstep or something like that and a differing account of how long he was there. Then there was the white pyjamas and then the pink pyjamas.
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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by PeterMac on 02.12.11 17:38

Which led us to that wonderful distinction between the two. The man said 30 minutes - the woman 30 seconds !!!

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Gillyspot on 02.12.11 20:51

Kate McCann said she was wearing a towel.

David Payne Rogatory.
1485 "But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example?"
Reply "I can't, no."

But DP can remember what the children were wearing "The three children were all dressed in their pyjamas, they looked immaculate, they were just like angels, they all looked so happy and well looked after and content "

What red blooded male would forget that? Or is one or both lying.

Petermac actually DP said 3- 5 mins

"1485 "I'm gonna pin you down and ask you how long you think you were in there for. I know you say minutes."
Reply "In their apartment, it, it, I'd say three minutes, five maximum."

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Nina on 02.12.11 21:23

It's maybe splitting hairs but you don't need to have been either bathing or showering to have a towel around you. It just means you have no clothes on under the towel.

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Ollie on 02.12.11 21:38

Kate said he didn't come into the apartment. David Payne said he went inside.

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bath time

Post by russiandoll on 03.12.11 16:32

and then there's that intriguing questioning in the book, about why Maddie/ the twins/ Maddie and Sean [the crying scenario changed throughout the statements by the pair to the police].....

one of the proposed scenarios by Kate was could it have been when the children were having their bath?
she was very clear that the question from Maddie about why cries were ignored [ to Piers Morgan I think].....was addressed not just to Mummy.......and in her book, she states Mdeleine asked "us".
So why would a child cry for one parent with the other presumably present at bath time?
And if there was crying for both parents to come, who was giving them a bath, or were they left alone for enough time to cause distress?
Nowhere in this part of the book does Kate state she told Maddie that she recalls the crying and that her daughter was mistaken, that the crying wherever it occurred was responded to eventually.
It is all left hanging...maybe there were ignored tears at bath time.
Now under what circumstances would that happen ?
And is this a clue as to the scene of an accident?
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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by aquila on 12.12.11 10:13

There seems to be an awful lot of emphasis on bathtime. Twins of around 2 years, a daughter of 3. Bathtime isn't a terrible ordeal is it for a parent on holiday who has loads of time and has had a good day when they were in their various creche activities and the parents only spent a couple of hours with the kids. I love the contrast of 'milk and biscuits'...and don't forget the reading of the story. How difficult is it to bath your kids - those kids who were so tired. Amaral. Go for it.
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Madeleine date of birth

Post by Delboy on 27.08.12 12:17

Am new to this forum but just wondering if anyone has ever seen this query about the date of birth:

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2011/05/parents-did-not-register-maddie-at.html

Don't know about any of the facts surrounding this



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Is

Post by aniandr on 27.08.12 19:11

It an english thing with milk and biskuits? My kids never get that before bed not on holiday eighter. But is that a Commons english thing going on there?

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by aniandr on 27.08.12 19:14

@Delboy wrote:Am new to this forum but just wondering if anyone has ever seen this query about the date of birth:

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2011/05/parents-did-not-register-maddie-at.html

Don't know about any of the facts surrounding this



Huh?! Is that legal?

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Guest on 27.08.12 19:20

No it wouldn't be legal as in the U K births have to be registered within 42 days. This subject has cropped up here before - maybe someone will remember where - and I can't see any reason whatever why Madeleine's date of birth would be changed. I seem to remember that in one of the police reports, the date was incorrectly translated. I think this might be what has caused the confusion.
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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Curioser on 20.05.13 7:37

@PeterMac wrote:
@Mumbles wrote: PeterMac,
The only little 'niggle' that I have is the mention of the front door as being 'locked'... with regards to it possibly being a point of exit.
Do we know for a fact that it had been locked with the key?
The only reason I ask, is that with my front door for example, even when it is not locked with the key... I can just open it from the inside
to go out... but it can't be opened from the outside to get in... therefore 'appears' to be locked to the casual observer.
GM statement 4 May 2007
"Thus, at 9.05pm, Gerry entered the apartment using his key, the door being locked, ..."
At 10.00pm,. Kate went to check on the children. She went into the apartment using her key, and saw.. SNIP. The doors were locked except the one at the back as already noted above [in MO's statement]

What I wrote was based purely on what they, the only people who know the truth, actually said at the time.

I am aware that it makes no sense. That is the whole point.

It's odd too because one of the Tapas 7 says that there was only one key distributed for each apartment. That would mean they had the key copied. Not that I believe they did.

Ah, here it is. David Payne:
1485 ”Was it secure?”
Reply ”Err you needed, yeah once the door was shut, you know you needed the keys to, you know to gain entry err into the apartment. Err I can’t remember whether we ever had, you know whether you can deadlock it so that you could get in and out with the door open, but essentially you needed the key you know, to use, if I remember to gain access into the, err into the apartment, and you know generally it was difficult because there was, you know we’d ask about more than one key, there was the only one key to the apartment so during the day time you know we left the key under the, the err there was a mat err outside, err you know that you wipe your feet on, and err you know that’s, that’s basically how we gained entry into it during the day time.”

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Curioser on 20.05.13 7:49

@Me wrote:So the general consesus from that train wreck of an interview is that it's absolutely perfectly normal for there to be inconsistencies in witness statements.
SNIP

So instead of Kate refusing to answer the 48 questions she could and should have said:

"You know what we've got all confused in our statements and we've created multiple contradictions with our claims about the shutters, locked / unlocked doors, open / closed patio doors and the bath / shower statement so we really need to help the PJ here by answering any and everything relating to these issues so they can shut down this line of enquiry and concentrate on finding the real culprit(s)"
We know what Kate chose to do instead. So can they really be surprised and is it really incompetence if investigators focus on these self inflicted issues to try and get to the bottom of these contradictions as a starting point for getting to the truth?
It would have been incompetence if the PJ had not investigated these avenues of interest.

I agree, but to be fair to her, if she is innocent, she was aware that the police were trying to as Gerry said, 'stitch her up'. In that situation it's probably wise to shut up. Anyway, it just would have given us a bit more grist. There is plenty of grist already.

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by plebgate on 20.05.13 7:55

Given us more grist maybe but as the police pointed out by not answering the questions it might have harmed the search for her daughter.

Oh what to do - think that the police are fitting me up and shut up or answer questions and possibly get my daughter back, I know what I would have done.

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Curioser on 20.05.13 8:28

@aquila wrote:
@Ollie wrote:SNIP
In another statement about the evening of 3rd May Kate has a shower about 6.30 then David Payne shows up having been asked by Gerry to check on Kate and the kids.

Why would you ask your mate to go check on your wife and kids? It was bath-time on holiday. It's not like the kids hadn't been bathed alone by their mother before. What's so difficult about bathing tired kids and putting them to bed on your own? or have I missed the point here? I thought DP went to say GM had decided to have another game of tennis and would be a bit late (can't remember where I read that one). Still, in either case it wouldn't matter a jot to the average person to bath and put the kids to bed. Just my opinion.

According to Gerry, they had arranged to take the kids to the play area but Gerry was going to be late so he asked Payne to see let Kate know he was late and to see if she needed any help getting the kids ready for play.

At least that's one version. Here is Payne's recollection from his rogatory interview:
...I said oh Gerry’s, you know just finished over there, we’re going over to play a bit of tennis, err I probably said is there any problems with that and she said ah no, no fine, you know carry on,...

Here's another version a paragraph earlier:
1485 ”Okay, and it was at what point that Gerry said to you go and, would you mind checking at Kate?”
Reply ”Well I mean coming back from the beach I’d got no equipment to play tennis you know, etcetera,so I had to go back to my room to you know change into stuff appropriate for playing tennis in, and err so he knew that I’d walk up that by and past so he said oh why don’t you err, you know can you just pop in on the way, ...


Also this gem of spurious detail:
I say we were just, you know I, I know, it does sound bizarre but I just looked at the three of them and I couldn’t, you know they were just so well presented and so clean and immaculate it was, you know I was, and you know they just looked such healthy children, err you know, there’s, there’s you know nothing that normally…”
1485 ”Yeah.”
Reply ”Triggers in my mind like that but it was just how well that they looked and err…”


And another:
...the children all looked extremely happy, there was no, you know signs of any problems with err you know Kate, you know or indeed the relationship that Kate had got with any of the three children. None of the children had been told off, none of the children looked like they were you know in trouble for anything, you know they were err still all talking and playing around.

It is weird that he can't remember Kate in a towel, but is it a politeness trait that you don't mention a lady's towel?
1485 ”But could you remember what Kate was wearing for example?”
Reply ”I can’t, no.”


And immediately afterwards he can't seem to remember what the children were doing and I think it is really strange. Strange question. Strange answer.
1485 ”And did you actually set eyes on each individual child?”
Reply ”All three children I saw, yeah.”
1485 ”And were they standing up? Sitting down?”
Reply ”Err they were generally standing up, yeah.”
1485 ”Did they actually acknowledge you?”
Reply ”Err oh yeah, you know I’m very sure that if you’d have asked them, you know that evening or the next day they’d all say ah yeah, I popped in.

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by plebgate on 20.05.13 8:34

Crikey is it any wonder people doubt what they have to say. What an absolute load of garbled incomprehensible nonsense and why haven't SY re-interviewed him having read such a load of nonSENSE.

thanks for reminding me of that load of dung Curioser.

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Bath time

Post by AB1 on 29.10.13 23:24

@russiandoll wrote:and then there's that intriguing questioning in the book, about why Maddie/ the twins/ Maddie and Sean [the crying scenario changed throughout the statements by the pair to the police].....

one of the proposed scenarios by Kate was could it have been when the children were having their bath?
she was very clear that the question from Maddie about why cries were ignored  [ to Piers Morgan I think].....was addressed not just to Mummy.......and in her book, she states Mdeleine asked "us".
So why would a child cry for one parent with the other presumably present at bath time?
And if there was crying for both parents to come, who was giving them a bath, or were they left alone for enough time to cause distress?
Nowhere in this part of the book does Kate state she told Maddie that she recalls the crying and that her daughter was mistaken, that the crying wherever it occurred was responded to eventually.
It is all left hanging...maybe there were ignored tears at bath time.
Now under what circumstances would that happen ?
And is this a clue as to the scene of an accident?
Bath time... interesting possibility. Not something I'd considered, yet makes sense if we ware looking for 'environmental danger' as opposed to another's deliberate or accidental actions.

Never leaving young children unattended in the bath - isn't that in the parents 10 commandments?

I recall mention of a (green?) shower curtain but can't remember the context.

Wish I'd seen this earlier - now I'm wide awake!splat

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by Hobs on 30.10.13 1:02

G. MCCANN: The first thing that went straight through my head and I think -- it was just disbelief. I said, she can't be there, she can't be there. And I was running to the apartment with Kate. And I've checked. And she said, I've checked, I've checked, she's not there.

And I ran into the bedroom. And I found it just as Kate described. And when I saw that window pushed wide open and the shutter up, which we'd left down the whole week, it was horrible. And I -- lowered the shutter and I went through the front door. And I was able to lift the shutter from outside which --

MORGAN: Do you know that yet? Do you know -- is there any evidence how this person came in the room?

G. MCCANN: I mean no doubt, there are a number of options.
And --

MORGAN: No, actual evidence. There's nothing they could find to say this is unequivocally how this person came in?

G. MCCANN: No. I mean, it's possible they came through the window. They could have come through the patio doors, although that was in sight of where we were dining. So I think that's probably less likely. For all we know, they could have had a key, you know, lots of people stayed in that apartment over years to the front door --



AND at the beginning of a sentence indicates missing information.

There are 9 sentences beginning with AND indicating a huge amount of missing information.

G. MCCANN: The first thing that went straight through my head and I think -- it was just disbelief. I said, she can't be there, she can't be there.
This is a strange thing to say "She can't be there".
She was allegedly abducted from her bedroom, why would he be saying "She can't be there?
Not only should she be there as that's where they claim they left her so where else would she be if not there?
Anything in the negative is sensitive and in this case he repeats it  making it even more sensitive.

Given they were supposedly in apartment 5a, why is he saying there (distancing) rather than the expected here (close)
They ran to the apartment and both checked in the apartment, the comments were said whilst they were in the aprtment so i would expect them to be saying she's not HERE

If  he lowered the shutter that is interfering with the crime scene which even the dimmest person would know to leave alone knowing police would be checking it for fingerprints and other evidence, so much for them claiming to have not contaminated the scene.
If he raised the shuuters from outside as claimed, where were his prints? only kate's prints were found on the bottom. He makes no mention of wearing gloves to touch the shutters so he lied/
Why then would he lie about the shutters being raised, him lowering them from inside the apartment and then raising them again from outside?

Gerry is being deceptive about what happened from the moment kate said they've taken her ( btw who is HER since Amelie and Maddie were in the same bedroom?
There is a lot of sensitivity about the events that night and a lot of missing information as to who did what and when.
Why would an innocent parent feel the need to be deceptive about the events of that night and who did what, where and when.

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by sonic72 on 30.10.13 2:43

@Hobs wrote:G. MCCANN: No. I mean, it's possible they came through the window. They could have come through the patio doors, although that was in sight of where we were dining. So I think that's probably less likely. For all we know, they could have had a key, you know, lots of people stayed in that apartment over years to the front door --
Gerry is talking crap as usual. As if a former holiday maker is going to keep the key to the apartment and then stalk it, week in week out, just in case a family with a young child stay there and leave their kids in a vulnerable position?! That just ridiculous!

All the phone activity on the Tuesday before they reckon she was abducted is the key to this case, and all those calls, and her disappearance are most likely linked into the Maddy crying incident on the Monday night.

The fact Maddy was crying on the Monday night, and they say they still left Maddy and the twins alone on the two nights after she was crying just highlights their neglect, and displays that they clearly put themselves before their kids.

Although, as I say, I personally think she was definitely dead by the Tuesday, hence all the phone activity, and that would give enough time for cadaver to set in...

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Re: PeterMac: Back to the beginning - McCann's lies

Post by PeterMac on 30.10.13 9:12

@sonic72 wrote:
@Hobs wrote:G. MCCANN: No. I mean, it's possible they came through the window. They could have come through the patio doors, although that was in sight of where we were dining. So I think that's probably less likely. For all we know, they could have had a key, you know, lots of people stayed in that apartment over years to the front door --
Gerry is talking crap as usual. As if a former holiday maker is going to keep the key to the apartment and then stalk it, week in week out, just in case a family with a young child stay there and leave their kids in a vulnerable position?! That just ridiculous!
Quite.  A former Holiday maker would normally go HOME at the end of the holiday. It is what distinguishes a holiday from a not-holiday

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