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Where would a body be hidden?

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by diatribe on 15.02.14 18:37

@mysterion wrote:


I entirely agree with your analysis. But in this case, I wouldn`t be surprised if the full story about what happened to MBM is different to the imaginings of all of us, if the truth ever comes out.

You may well be correct and this could be a case of attempting to apply logic to a matter that is totally illogical. big grin

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by mysterion on 15.02.14 18:53

As the song says "People are strange".

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Newintown on 15.02.14 18:56

@diatribe wrote:

@aquila wrote:Where would a body be hidden?

I'm not keen on this thread but I want to say that if someone wanted to hide a body in a country with "lawless hinterland" etc. the best place I could think of is a soak-away septic tank. I had one when I lived in Greece. Three huge concrete pipe thingies (I'm not a technical person can't you tell) into which all waste was directed, was broken down and soaked away into the olive grove. One man-hole cover (easily big enough for a body) which I was told to drop in the odd dead rat found in the garden to assist the process.

This would fit into Dante's and my own theory that Madeleine's body was disposed of locally, as opposed to moved at a subsequent stage to further afield. Indeed it was Dante's suggestion that a buggy could have been utilised to convey the body a greater distance without arousing suspicion, which I still think is the most logical and plausible theory proposed thus far on this thread.

At the very least, its perhaps the best of the worst big grin

I do remember one incidence shown on TV where GM was pushing a double buggy through PDL (surrounded by press) and the rain/wind cover was up on the buggy and it was completely blacked out, I was thinking at the time if the twins were in there they would have been suffocating; it didn't occur to me at the time that it could have been a forerunner of things to come and if he got away with that run what could he have got away with if other items could have been put in a completely blacked out buggy and taken who knows where without detection in the future.

ETA: and who knows what was in that buggy at the time he was pushing through PDL with all the press looking on??  The saying "hidden in plain sight" comes to mind.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Loving Mom on 15.02.14 19:14

@Newintown wrote:
@diatribe wrote:

@aquila wrote:Where would a body be hidden?

I'm not keen on this thread but I want to say that if someone wanted to hide a body in a country with "lawless hinterland" etc. the best place I could think of is a soak-away septic tank. I had one when I lived in Greece. Three huge concrete pipe thingies (I'm not a technical person can't you tell) into which all waste was directed, was broken down and soaked away into the olive grove. One man-hole cover (easily big enough for a body) which I was told to drop in the odd dead rat found in the garden to assist the process.

This would fit into Dante's and my own theory that Madeleine's body was disposed of locally, as opposed to moved at a subsequent stage to further afield. Indeed it was Dante's suggestion that a buggy could have been utilised to convey the body a greater distance without arousing suspicion, which I still think is the most logical and plausible theory proposed thus far on this thread.

At the very least, its perhaps the best of the worst big grin

I do remember one incidence shown on TV where GM was pushing a buggy through PDL (surrounded by press) and the rain/wind cover was up on the buggy and it was completely blacked out, I was thinking at the time if the twins were in there they would have been suffocating; it didn't occur to me at the time that it could have been a forerunner of things to come and if he got away with that run what could he have got away with if other items could have been put in a completely blacked out buggy and taken who knows where without detection in the future.

ETA: and who knows what was in that buggy at the time he was pushing through PDL with all the press looking on??  The saying "hidden in plain sight" comes to mind.

IMO, the buggy for transport is the most logical and burial in sand would not take too much time. Does anyone know if the dogs alerted to the buggy? I'm thinking I've read so much information here it's hard to remember everything...

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by canada12 on 15.02.14 19:57

I just posted about finding old images that I'd archived from 2007-2009, and I found a few of those "buggy" images on a couple of photo press sites. You'll have to search, but if you go to either one of these sites and search for Madeleine McCann,I think you might find the "buggy" photos...

http://www.gettyimages.com

www.exposay.com

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Guest on 24.04.14 16:04

Re "where would a body be hdden?", I wonder if the body was taken away but then after the dogs had been in, it could have been brought back and buried very near to/under? Apartment 5A. After all, the police and the dogs would never search the area again, would they? It may be right near to the Apartment and maybe for a second time, they really do need to 'ask the dogs'. Just a thought.
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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by NickE on 24.04.14 21:53

MILLIE wrote:Re "where would a body be hdden?", I wonder if the body was taken away but then after the dogs had been in, it could have been brought back and buried very near to/under? Apartment 5A. After all, the police and the dogs would never search the area again, would they? It may be right near to the Apartment and maybe for a second time, they really do need to 'ask the dogs'. Just a thought.
Under R.M.'s driveway?
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Where would a body be hidden?

Post by XTC on 24.04.14 22:23

MILLIE wrote:Re "where would a body be hdden?", I wonder if the body was taken away but then after the dogs had been in, it could have been brought back and buried very near to/under? Apartment 5A. After all, the police and the dogs would never search the area again, would they? It may be right near to the Apartment and maybe for a second time, they really do need to 'ask the dogs'. Just a thought.
The question for me is whether the Eddie was indicating to a strong transferred scent ( or direct scents from a body ) and I don't know whether Martin Grimes could differentiate between the two types when Eddie set off barking but bark he did particularly at the Scenic before he even got in the boot. That indicates a pretty strong scent either way.

For me the best place to hide a body in a Catholic country is in a graveyard. The vast majority of funerals would be burials and it is possible
that upcoming burials are well advertised in advance and the grave is dug prior to the day of internment. A quick look at the local church
itinery for the week could be very informative to facilitating a burial under a burial. It is also sacred ground and coppers digging around for clues there would rightly be seen as an afront to the dead people's memory and the relatives dignities. Yes it's a risk but in times
of panic that might be your only alternative.

I have read of equipment ( seismic?- not sure ) where you can trace material underground without disturbing the ground at first. Obviously you need excellent proof and a very good reason to dig up a graveyard anywhere in the world. it's just an opinion though.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Guest on 24.04.14 22:30

It's tradition in Portugal for funerals to take place soon after death, within 2-3 days usually, so not much time to advertise a burial.
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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by ultimaThule on 24.04.14 22:58

I came across this item on joana's blog which may have some relevance here:  http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/10/criminal-record-kate-mccann-in-praia-da.html

Burials above ground are not uncommon in Portugal and, imo, it would be easier to add to the contents of a coffin which has been interred behind a small metal grille than displace newly dug earth.
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Huelva trip

Post by Guest on 24.04.14 23:20

I saw a tweet about this catholic cemetary owned by the british government in Huelva......

http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery/cemetery/2086519/Huelva%20Roman%20Catholic%20Cemetery
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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by diatribe on 24.04.14 23:36

@ultimaThule wrote:I came across this item on joana's blog which may have some relevance here:  http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2010/10/criminal-record-kate-mccann-in-praia-da.html

Burials above ground are not uncommon in Portugal and, imo, it would be easier to add to the contents of a coffin which has been interred behind a small metal grille than displace newly dug earth.

Have you managed to 'unearth' anything pertaining to the McCanns being familiar with Portuguese burial customs, Ultimate. Also, do you happen to know whether they showed an interest in the church prior to their daughter's disappearance, or was this a subsequent development?

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by tigger on 25.04.14 6:26

Old post from Forensic Linguistics below:

Heavily snipped, can be found in McCannfiles.com.

Pilgrimage in Portuguese lands Joana Morais

By Antonieta Janeiro
12/12/2009
Thanks to Joana Morais for translation

They are mistaken those who thought that the famous Doctors McCann were travelling to Portugal to assist the first session of the claim filled against Dr. Gonçalo Amaral regarding the temporary injunction, because of 'insults' made against them in the book 'Maddie, The Truth of the Lie'.
[...]

Besides the frustration of having entered a court for nothing, they mainly felt the frustration of not having anyone waiting for them to give them that superstars status. Quite the contrary!

There was a bunch of red carnations that was offered to them, but whose meaning they did not know – it was the «poisoned chalice».( see https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t351-red-carnations-for-gerry-mccann)

Visibly tense, uncomfortable and disappointed, they went forward with the «plan B» : A PILGRIMAGE TO THE PAST.

It was, after all, what the McCanns really wanted - MEDIA and PROPAGANDA.
They failed in Lisbon ... they headed to the Algarve!

Unfortunately, that theory that "the killer always returns to the crime scene” seems to apply to them.
They returned to the macabre route of the church and rocks on the beach.

It was very clear heard, at the Courthouse door, the failed act of Kate saying that Maddie was entitled to a decent funeral, «...Madeleine has the right to a proper...uhm... a... a proper ... a proper... search »

God be praised! Where (in this context) the adjective «proper» applies to the noun «search»?!? Are there, by chance, «fitting searches», «decent searches», «due searches »....??????????

If she had hesitated in the adjective «right», «accurate», etc…, before saying 'search', it would be different, especially since she was speaking fluently. She was not looking for an exact adjective to define an idea or concept.

Now, PROPER ??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then, later in Aldeia da Luz, she had another slip, stating that it was THERE where she felt closer to Maddie.

[..]

Lisbon, December 12, 2009


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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by aiyoyo on 25.04.14 14:47

Thread Question :  "Where would a body be hidden?"

Possible answers :

             "On Mars maybe ! " likely

Less likely :

"Behind the Sofar"

"Inside the Cupboard "

"In the Car Boot "

"In McVanish Tower "

"Under the Black Rocks "

" In Fatima"
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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by PeterMac on 25.04.14 17:21

@aiyoyo wrote:Thread Question :  "Where would a body be hidden?"
In a fridge / freezer.
Carried there in a blue tennis bag in full sight by someone wearing tennis kit,
The said bag then replaced on the shelf, where it is photographed,
before being moved to the villa / new apartment,
but quickly starts to smell and is disposed of.
The spokes-slug then tries to lie his way out of it by denying the existence of the bag in the photo
But the dogs are not to be lied to
and detect the EXACT place on the shelf where the bag once lay.

Someone took the whole afternoon off tennis, with a ruptured Achilles Tendon, - which miraculously healed later allowing him to continue playing until the early evening.
Can't just remember who that was ! !

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Guest on 25.04.14 17:31

I once had 2 [two] inflamed Achilles tendons [at the same time!]. It took me some 10 YEARS to walk let alone run properly again ...

Our GM is a miracle boy, isn't he?
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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Bishop Brennan on 03.05.14 6:37

@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Thread Question :  "Where would a body be hidden?"
In a fridge / freezer.
Carried there in a blue tennis bag in full sight by someone wearing tennis kit,
The said bag then replaced on the shelf, where it is photographed,
before being moved to the villa / new apartment,
but quickly starts to smell and is disposed of.
The spokes-slug then tries to lie his way out of it by denying the existence of the bag in the photo
But the dogs are not to be lied to
and detect the EXACT place on the shelf where the bag once lay.

Someone took the whole afternoon off tennis, with a ruptured Achilles Tendon, - which miraculously healed later allowing him to continue playing until the early evening.
Can't just remember who that was ! !

Very credible as a theory, but it leads to two follow-up questions:  Whose fridge/freezer?  And "Why would they agree to allowing a dead child to be stored in their property / building?"   That requires a very detailed and secure link between GM and the owner - someone who can be relied on not to talk?  


  • Priests don't talk, but would never allow it, and don't have the facilities.


  • Malinka was asked to "Fala" (talk) when his car was burned... did he not own a restaurant / bar?   A friend of Murat's but only 22 I think.  


  • Murat lived close by, but his place was searched quickly and extensively.


  • A "mystery man" - but this risks having to come up with an elaborate conspiracy theory.  



If this did happen, then this person or persons represent by far the weakest link in the McCann story.  But as yet no evidence to suggest the PJ are working down this investigative path...

The other alternative might be that poor Maddie was laid to rest that very afternoon, and that the later scents in the car came after touching the bag (and other stuff) during its move to a new apartment and ultimately its disposal.
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where is the body

Post by mariola on 03.05.14 8:31

@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Thread Question :  "Where would a body be hidden?"
In a fridge / freezer.
Carried there in a blue tennis bag in full sight by someone wearing tennis kit,
The said bag then replaced on the shelf, where it is photographed,
before being moved to the villa / new apartment,
but quickly starts to smell and is disposed of.
The spokes-slug then tries to lie his way out of it by denying the existence of the bag in the photo
But the dogs are not to be lied to
and detect the EXACT place on the shelf where the bag once lay.

Someone took the whole afternoon off tennis, with a ruptured Achilles Tendon, - which miraculously healed later allowing him to continue playing until the early evening.
Can't just remember who that was ! !

Very credible as a theory, but it leads to two follow-up questions:  Whose fridge/freezer?  And "Why would they agree to allowing a dead child to be stored in their property / building?"   That requires a very detailed and secure link between GM and the owner - someone who can be relied on not to talk?  


  • Priests don't talk, but would never allow it, and don't have the facilities.


  • Malinka was asked to "Fala" (talk) when his car was burned... did he not own a restaurant / bar?   A friend of Murat's but only 22 I think.  


  • Murat lived close by, but his place was searched quickly and extensively.


  • A "mystery man" - but this risks having to come up with an elaborate conspiracy theory.  



If this did happen, then this person or persons represent by far the weakest link in the McCann story.  But as yet no evidence to suggest the PJ are working down this investigative path...

The other alternative might be that poor Maddie was laid to rest that very afternoon, and that the later scents in the car came after touching the bag (and other stuff) during its move to a new apartment and ultimately its disposal.
What about the friend/family of DP who provided the new mobiles?As good a guess as any other.Also possible reason for DP to visit KM ,to give her the key .Total speculation of course.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by HelenMeg on 03.05.14 9:46

@mariola wrote:
@Bishop Brennan wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Thread Question :  "Where would a body be hidden?"
In a fridge / freezer.
Carried there in a blue tennis bag in full sight by someone wearing tennis kit,
The said bag then replaced on the shelf, where it is photographed,
before being moved to the villa / new apartment,
but quickly starts to smell and is disposed of.
The spokes-slug then tries to lie his way out of it by denying the existence of the bag in the photo
But the dogs are not to be lied to
and detect the EXACT place on the shelf where the bag once lay.

Someone took the whole afternoon off tennis, with a ruptured Achilles Tendon, - which miraculously healed later allowing him to continue playing until the early evening.
Can't just remember who that was ! !

Very credible as a theory, but it leads to two follow-up questions:  Whose fridge/freezer?  And "Why would they agree to allowing a dead child to be stored in their property / building?"   That requires a very detailed and secure link between GM and the owner - someone who can be relied on not to talk?  


  • Priests don't talk, but would never allow it, and don't have the facilities.


  • Malinka was asked to "Fala" (talk) when his car was burned... did he not own a restaurant / bar?   A friend of Murat's but only 22 I think.  


  • Murat lived close by, but his place was searched quickly and extensively.


  • A "mystery man" - but this risks having to come up with an elaborate conspiracy theory.  



If this did happen, then this person or persons represent by far the weakest link in the McCann story.  But as yet no evidence to suggest the PJ are working down this investigative path...

The other alternative might be that poor Maddie was laid to rest that very afternoon, and that the later scents in the car came after touching the bag (and other stuff) during its move to a new apartment and ultimately its disposal.
What about the friend/family of DP who provided the new mobiles?As good a guess as any other.Also possible reason for DP to visit KM ,to give her the key .Total speculation of course.
Jenny Murat's fridge freezer?
John Geraghty's ?

I dont think there would be a problem with all the known connections in finding a reliable fridge - freezer - lots of ex=pats living there and Gerry knew plenty of people
through Rothley Park Golf Club connections. RM had come back to Luz urgently a couple of days before.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by HelenMeg on 03.05.14 9:47

Also, if RM was brought back to help out then, being involved in the property market, he probably had access or was able to give access to
a fridge - freezer.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by noddy100 on 03.05.14 9:57

@HelenMeg wrote:Also, if RM was brought back to help out then, being involved in the property market, he probably had access or was able to give access to
a fridge - freezer.
Would anyone in their right mind allow a body of a child in their freezer?

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Guest on 03.05.14 10:04

@noddy100 wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:Also, if RM was brought back to help out then, being involved in the property market, he probably had access or was able to give access to
a fridge - freezer.
Would anyone in their right mind allow a body of a child in their freezer?
I know Noddy - Just sounds crazy.

'Rob Murat, Gerry Mccann here. Long time no speak. Do us a favour, nip back to Portugal pronto. Need to use your Mum's freezer to hide a dead body. Your mum wont notice if it's underneath the lamb chops. Will only be a temporary thing until we can work out where to actually hide it. Cheers mate, see you soon'.
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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Nina on 03.05.14 10:07

@noddy100 wrote:
@HelenMeg wrote:Also, if RM was brought back to help out then, being involved in the property market, he probably had access or was able to give access to
a fridge - freezer.
Would anyone in their right mind allow a body of a child in their freezer?
No noddy they wouldn't. If they weren't there though, and allowed their property to be let out, taken care of by an agent, they wouldn't know. The keeping in a fridge/freezer wasn't going to be for weeks, even days. I would think just in an emergency whilst arrangements for a further method of disposal were being made.
However an empty property awaiting a holiday maker would normally have the fridge/freezer turned off and the door left open, so not a cold enough place to store a body.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by Monty Heck on 03.05.14 11:34

@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Thread Question :  "Where would a body be hidden?"
In a fridge / freezer.
Carried there in a blue tennis bag in full sight by someone wearing tennis kit,
The said bag then replaced on the shelf, where it is photographed,
before being moved to the villa / new apartment,
but quickly starts to smell and is disposed of.
The spokes-slug then tries to lie his way out of it by denying the existence of the bag in the photo
But the dogs are not to be lied to
and detect the EXACT place on the shelf where the bag once lay.

Someone took the whole afternoon off tennis, with a ruptured Achilles Tendon, - which miraculously healed later allowing him to continue playing until the early evening.
Can't just remember who that was ! !
IMO this does look the most likely scenario and have posted here https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t9470p60-mccanns-frustrated-by-lack-of-joint-inquiry#242429
suggesting how someone with a bag may have found a means of getting some distance away from PDL and back fairly easily and without attracting notice.

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Re: Where would a body be hidden?

Post by HelenMeg on 22.09.14 12:10

@Monty Heck wrote:
@PeterMac wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Thread Question :  "Where would a body be hidden?"
In a fridge / freezer.
Carried there in a blue tennis bag in full sight by someone wearing tennis kit,
The said bag then replaced on the shelf, where it is photographed,
before being moved to the villa / new apartment,
but quickly starts to smell and is disposed of.
The spokes-slug then tries to lie his way out of it by denying the existence of the bag in the photo
But the dogs are not to be lied to
and detect the EXACT place on the shelf where the bag once lay.

Someone took the whole afternoon off tennis, with a ruptured Achilles Tendon, - which miraculously healed later allowing him to continue playing until the early evening.
Can't just remember who that was ! !
IMO this does look the most likely scenario and have posted here https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t9470p60-mccanns-frustrated-by-lack-of-joint-inquiry#242429
suggesting how someone with a bag may have found a means of getting some distance away from PDL and back fairly easily and without attracting notice.
I wonder whether GM walked to the location of the fridge / freezer in his tennis kit plus blue bag or not.  Noone would have batted an eyelid at the sight. As RM and GM both seemed to disappear that afternoon and both turned off their mobiles for a similar length of time - I think it may be quite likely that RM drove him somewhere - to the property with the freezer. When he dropped GM off later on after body disposal into the fridge / freezer then GM would just appear as if he'd been playing tennis.  I do think this is what happened but if RM drove him somewhere then I wonder whose car he used...

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