Re: McCanns Easter break Donegal 2007

by Guest 13.11.13 11:05

It would be interesting to know if there is a high crime rate generally in such a small place.

by MissDaisy 13.11.13 11:09

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:It would be interesting to know if there is a high crime rate generally in such a small place.

I doubt it...

by Daisy 13.11.13 11:53

The crime rate does seem to be particularly high for such a small town. If those Wiki stats are right St Johnston has a population of just 583. Yet so much going on.

Thanks for those links Nereid, not come across them before.

Things certainly seem to have gone downhill for Mr Peoples since he spoke out in favour of the McCann's. I wonder if he rues the day he got involved. And, if that poor dog that was slaughtered did belong to his family... well, things have turned pretty nasty.

by Guest 13.11.13 12:05

Daisy wrote:The crime rate does seem to be particularly high for such a small town. If those Wiki stats are right St Johnston has a population of just 583. Yet so much going on.

Thanks for those links Nereid, not come across them before.

Things certainly seem to have gone downhill for Mr Peoples since he spoke out in favour of the McCann's. I wonder if he rues the day he got involved. And, if that poor dog that was slaughtered did belong to his family... well, things have turned pretty nasty.

GAs dog was slaughtered as well, but that aside

When did mr Peoples speak up for the McCanns? How were they connected?

by Guest 13.11.13 12:06

View-from-Ireland wrote:I honestly cannot believe where this thread is headed.

Talk about 2+2=5.

And the hair issue, as in Irish people and red hair, raised by Portia I think? Next you will be telling me Hitler wasn't blonde haired and blue-eyed. Seriously.....

As for IRA or Sinn Féin connections, just to show you how unlikely they are. In the Republic of Ireland Sinn Féin won its first seat in the Irish parliament since the 1920s (when it wasn't even the same party) in 1997. In 2002 they won five seats (out of 166) and something similar in 2007. In 2011, in the eye of the biggest economic crash the Irish state has faced since independence in 1922, Sinn Féin could only muster 13 seats as the governing party slumped from 77 seats to 19! Granted, since 2011 Sinn Féin have two seats in Donegal (out of six), but what I am trying to get at is that even after the peace process, even after decommissioning, even after Sinn Féin has spent fifteen years trying to put a respectable face forward they still, and they are the acceptable face of that whole element, cannot make any sort of breakthrough in the Republic of Ireland.

As for the dissidents!!! Have you any idea how much of a fringe organisation you are talking about? I mean, fringe!! I'd safely say there are probably much less than two thousand individuals across the whole island, north and south, who even identify with dissident republicans let alone be active dissident republicans.

So it is just a huge leap of the imagination to be linking somebody like Gerry McCann to 'Real IRA' or whatever and is inf act absolute nonsense. You could pick 100 random individuals in a republican area and not find a dissident so how you can link the son of a Scottish immigrant to them is just beyond words.

Thank you for your comments

I'm not purporting GM is or has been IRA, real or not
I'm just wondering why he dyes his red hair black

by MrsC 13.11.13 12:08

'I'm just wondering why he dyes his red hair black'

Vanity? Red hair is not considered attractive to many people in the UK.

by Nereid 13.11.13 12:09

Daisy wrote:The crime rate does seem to be particularly high for such a small town. If those Wiki stats are right St Johnston has a population of just 583. Yet so much going on.

Thanks for those links Nereid, not come across them before.

Things certainly seem to have gone downhill for Mr Peoples since he spoke out in favour of the McCann's. I wonder if he rues the day he got involved. And, if that poor dog that was slaughtered did belong to his family... well, things have turned pretty nasty.

How long do people hold grudges for I wonder. I won't quote as it's very long and probably not of importance.

There there was a (lengthy) parliamentary debate about a part-time postman's position.
To recap: the post was promised to a father of 4 children, but was then given to Joseph Peoples who was a 18 y/o lad at the time. This was in 1962, seems a very long time ago.

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by Guest 13.11.13 12:18

MrsC wrote:'I'm just wondering why he dyes his red hair black'

Vanity? Red hair is not considered attractive to many people in the UK.

Mwah; there is this devilishly handsome actor who first portrayed Soames Gallsworthy in the most recent series on BBC, IIRC

Then we have James Hewitt

Then we have Queen Elisabeth I

Then we have…

Even my cat is a redhead!

Redheads do have something special and are likable creatures, so why would people in the UK not like them?

And who would dye red hair black, in order to be liked?

I'd purport you sooner dye your hair for camouflage, in order not to be seen as you were before, not to be so recognizable. Just my opinion

by Guest 13.11.13 12:48

Portia: I think that Daisy is referring to quotes from Joe Peoples backing up reports that the McCanns actually appear in Donegal from time to time.

Here's a recent one.

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There do not appear to be any other independent (?) witnesses.

by MrsC 13.11.13 12:49

Portia wrote:
MrsC wrote:'I'm just wondering why he dyes his red hair black'

Vanity? Red hair is not considered attractive to many people in the UK.
Redheads do have something special and are likable creatures, so why would people in the UK not like them?

And who would dye red hair black, in order to be liked?

I'd purport you sooner dye your hair for camouflage, in order not to be seen as you were before, not to be so recognizable. Just my opinion

It's not that they are unliked because of the colour of their hair, it's a jokey thing. Redheads often have to put up with 'micky taking': having the pee taken out of them. They are often called names like 'carrot top' 'ginge' 'rusty' 'ginger' with a hard G. It's often a form of bullying.

by Guest 13.11.13 12:55

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Portia: I think that Daisy is referring to quotes from Joe Peoples backing up reports that the McCanns actually appear in Donegal from time to time.

Here's a recent one.

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There do not appear to be any other independent (?) witnesses.

And Peoples a tennant of KH's mother at that

As an aside: a real nasty little piece of news there, with a farmer putting two naked men in a cage with an agitated boar. Funny way of convincing someone else, some people out there appear to have!

by Guest 13.11.13 13:00

From previous posts, there is some doubt whether Joe Peoples is a tenant of Eileen McCann.

Perhaps whoever it was who checked Irish Land Registry records will remember the details.

The McCanns left Ireland in 1967 - could they have retained ownership of the bar for so long?

by Daisy 13.11.13 13:17

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:From previous posts, there is some doubt whether Joe Peoples is a tenant of Eileen McCann.

Perhaps whoever it was who checked Irish Land Registry records will remember the details.

The McCanns left Ireland in 1967 - could they have retained ownership of the bar for so long?

I don't believe for one moment that Eileen Mccann ever owned this bar. If I remember correctly the Pub was only registered in 2009! (sure it was LadyHeather who found this info)

I also think Mr Peoples is either being seriously misquoted or he's suffering from dementia. This is another recent report quoting Mr Peoples:

"Three weeks before their family holiday, the McCann family had been enjoying their time in Dungloe. They left the Rosses and went to visit McCann’s pub in St. Johnston. Madeleine’s grandmother Eileen had leased the pub to Joe Peoples and they would often call into the friendly local publican. He enjoyed their brief visit because the McCann family had the children with them. He remembers Kate, Eileen and the children being in the pub but recalls that Gerry, Madeleine’s father was not with them on this occasion."

He also embellishes his original story with little snippets such as this:

“I remember Madeleine. She was a wee toddler. I told her to go in behind the counter for me and fix the bottles. She thought that this was great and she stood their fixing the bottles,” he said.

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by Guest 13.11.13 13:33

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There's a brief glimpse of the pub - such as it is - at about 4.50 in this clip from an Irish TV report 3 years ago.

It certainly must have existed for years before then so, if it was only registered in 2009, I don't know why that would be.

by Daisy 13.11.13 13:46

I have no idea either NFWTD. It's bizarre.

This is what I was referring to: (there's a brief discussion on pages 3-4 about it)

ype	Business Name
Number	380962
Name	JOE'S BAR
Address	MAIN STREET ST. JOHNSTON LIFFORD CO. DONEGAL
Registered	06/03/2009
Status	Normal Effective date: 06/03/2009

by Guest 13.11.13 13:50

Maybe that is just the trading name Joe's Bar being officially registered belatedly; it seems to have been known locally as that for ages.

The building itself has clearly seen better days and must have existed for years.

by Nereid 13.11.13 13:52

Did it start out as a front room pub?

"You may even find an Irish pub that’s actually someone’s front living room of their house with one or two pumps, a couple of bottles of spirits and maybe some chairs. You will find these kinds of Irish pubs to be very community orientated and a great way to meet the locals, learn some history and really experience the Irish Culture. These kind of pubs are usually found in remote villages dotted around Ireland, just because it’s not constructed with a full mahogany bar and decked with Guinness signs doesn’t mean its not an Irish pub."

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But then that wouldn't explain the faded McCann's Bar printed on the building. nah

by Guest 13.11.13 13:57

It appears to be true that Gerry's father was a publican when he lived in Ireland - his liquor licence (or whatever is the Irish term for that) is somewhere here so that would explain the old McCanns sign.

by Daisy 13.11.13 14:06

Here's a picture of the pub that can be zoomed in on. (takes a minute to load) I remember saying it before, looks like the McCann sign has just been daubed on to me. It's no where near as clear as the signage shown on the video report.

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by Daisy 13.11.13 14:18

I can't help but go back to this. Makes me wonder if Eileen McCann (nee Ferry) really does still have relatives in the area but for some reason it's best to keep them out of the limelight?

"Three weeks before their family holiday, the McCann family had been enjoying their time in Dungloe. They left the Rosses ..."

"“There are concerns now that some kind of paedophile ring involving Michael Ferry has been operating in the Gweedore, Dungloe and the Rosses area ..."

by sami 13.11.13 14:37

If McCann owned the building and ran it as a pub he had two separate assets, the physical building and his bar licence.

If he decided to retire he would have three options:

Sell the building for re-development
Sell the licence to somebody looking to re-develop a commercial property for pub usage in another town but the property had no licence; or
Lease the bar to a third party

In the case of leasing, the third party, lets say People's, will move in and run the business, paying a specified sum for rent of the premises and a per centage of the bar takings. McCann retained ownership of both the bar licence and building but People's ran it.

At some stage the lessor may decide to sell everything, usually giving the lessee first refusal or perhaps he decided to sell only the licence to the lessee. Hence some registration documents being available for People's.

In small towns its common to retain old names on pubs, it's likely if the bar was known as McCanns for a number of years, regardless of what sign was put on it, it will always be called McCanns. Indeed, it is very often retained to keep continued custom. People frequenting that bar will likely have their own chair and special glass . If you or I were to walk in and sit down we could be asked to move seats because Jim or Bob sits there and is due into the bar at a specific time.

The "new road" near me was built in 1967 and has an official road map name. Nobody uses that, everyone calls it the new road.

by chillyheat 13.11.13 15:13

MissDaisy wrote:
View-from-Ireland wrote:You could pick 100 random individuals in a republican area and not find a dissident so how you can link the son of a Scottish immigrant to them is just beyond words.
Liam McGinley (supplied information in relation to the murder of Denis Donaldson) was born in Scotland to parents from Donegal. Coincidentally, he was living in St Johnston.

Donaldson, who was one of the most highly prized informants working for Special Branch and MI5, was shot dead in Donegal in April 2006.

If you dig, you will see that Special Branch took a keen interest in the area July 2007. However, it seems to involve drugs. In 2010 hoax letters were sent out to people reportedly from Special Branch......Intimidation and digging possibly ???

by Guest 13.11.13 17:45

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

[...].

***
Thanks for the video, NFWTD. Interesting viewing ... The first time [that I know of] she's not fixing her hand on his you-know-what, but firmly on his wrist. He doesn't managed to get lose, even when he starts expressively waving his hands. When she loosens to make some two hand gesture herself, he's visibly relieved, but she comes back with her grip and he bites his teeth.

by Guest 13.11.13 18:18

ChillyHeat wrote:
MissDaisy wrote:
View-from-Ireland wrote:You could pick 100 random individuals in a republican area and not find a dissident so how you can link the son of a Scottish immigrant to them is just beyond words.
Liam McGinley (supplied information in relation to the murder of Denis Donaldson) was born in Scotland to parents from Donegal. Coincidentally, he was living in St Johnston.
Donaldson, who was one of the most highly prized informants working for Special Branch and MI5, was shot dead in Donegal in April 2006.

If you dig, you will see that Special Branch took a keen interest in the area July 2007. However, it seems to involve drugs. In 2010 hoax letters were sent out to people reportedly from Special Branch......Intimidation and digging possibly ???

Maybe Special Branch in 2007 were trying full force to find (information about the abduction of) little Maddie?
They would say they were going after drugs, wouldn't they? Not after MMC, in any case!

by **tigger** 13.11.13 19:09

Amaral had considerable success in rolling up drug cartels. I think it was his speciality.

The IRA/drug connection has nothing to do with the McCanns imo. The IRA have a long history in that area and in southern Spain which is very close.
There's the added bonus of Spain not having an extradition arrangement with the UK and the many criminals living on the costas. The Algarve is known as Little Britain, easy accress to Morocco, well, i'd be surprised if there were no IRA activity, drugs, gun running and all the usual suspects.

Nothing to do with the McCanns imo.

by chillyheat 13.11.13 22:05

Pat Doherty was born in Glasgow and is a former Donegal resident, he is also known by the nickname of "Papa Doc". His brother Hugh was part of the IRA Balcombe Street gang. Today he is Vice President of Sinn Fein.

by thetruthbeknown 13.11.13 22:06

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:A link too far for me!

I remember a topic here though about paedophile rings in the very parts of the Irish Republic that the McCanns allegedly frequent or have connections with.

That might be interesting to see again if anyone can find it.

I would find it really hard to link to paedophilia in this case..it doesnt fit the usual profile. If you look back on cases..if its an oportunistic abuduction then its not often well planned and has many sightings, or the victims is found shortly after (either dead or alive) Others are planned but will involve the paedophile befriending the child, gaining their trust etc, and would not be 'oppotunistic' and very unlikely to happen on 'holiday' and the child would be older (in fact 'opportunistic' is unusual under 6 years)...Im quite convinced that MM case is not to do with a Paed ring..We cant count out abuse as being a factor..but it was not 'opportunistic' by design, and it was not a 'befriending' unless by one or more of the tapas group...sorry but thats what it is..

by MissDaisy 14.11.13 14:20

Does anyone know where in England Gerry McCann was born? Also earlier in the thread there is a news article that says John McCann was cremated in England but his ashes buried in Glasgow - I think this came from Joe Peoples. I thought surely if he lived in Glasgow he would have been cremated there too.

by MissDaisy 14.11.13 14:36

Sorry, I looked at Gerry's passport and it gives Glasgow as his place of birth, though I could have sworn I read somewhere he was born in England.

by Guest 14.11.13 15:28

thetruthbeknown wrote:
No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:A link too far for me!

I remember a topic here though about paedophile rings in the very parts of the Irish Republic that the McCanns allegedly frequent or have connections with.

That might be interesting to see again if anyone can find it.
I would find it really hard to link to paedophilia in this case..it doesnt fit the usual profile. If you look back on cases..if its an oportunistic abuduction then its not often well planned and has many sightings, or the victims is found shortly after (either dead or alive) Others are planned but will involve the paedophile befriending the child, gaining their trust etc, and would not be 'oppotunistic' and very unlikely to happen on 'holiday' and the child would be older (in fact 'opportunistic' is unusual under 6 years)...Im quite convinced that MM case is not to do with a Paed ring..We cant count out abuse as being a factor..but it was not 'opportunistic' by design, and it was not a 'befriending' unless by one or more of the tapas group...sorry but thats what it is..

I remember reading somewhere that opportunistic murderers are less worried about hiding bodies, as there is often little to tie them to the crime. (Providing their DNA wasn't on file etc.) And that serial murderers often pose or display their victims as part of their MO.