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Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by kikoraton on 06.10.11 14:55

The most compelling argument for pre-meditation in the death of Madeleine, is my theory the fact that Gerry McCann was already signing-in the daughter of another tourist, and (badly) imitating his signature as early as 29 April. With this kind of deception going on, it's clear that Gerry and the Pacemakers (sorry, showing my age) had things planned out from well before the holiday.
1. Malignant couple
2. Malignant friends
3. Innocent child put aside - unwanted except for the money she could bring in
4. Substitute provided by 2 above
ker-ching!!!

It is not fact kiko, so have changed your post slightly.
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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by kikoraton on 06.10.11 14:57

Never fear, Miraflores. Stella meant "us"!!
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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Guest on 06.10.11 15:03

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re creche records

Post by russiandoll on 06.10.11 15:07

kikoraton said :

The most compelling argument for pre-meditation in the death of
Madeleine, is my theory the fact that Gerry McCann was already signing-in the
daughter of another tourist, and (badly) imitating his signature as
early as 29 April. With this kind of deception going on, it's clear that
Gerry and the Pacemakers (sorry, showing my age) had things planned out
from well before the holiday.

I am still researching the creche records. It is a major thing to state the above info re Gerry McCann is a fact and not a theory. Can you please point me to the evidence?
thanks!
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Science does advance over 20 + years.

Post by tigger on 06.10.11 15:34

@Lemain wrote:

Stella, the point I'm making is that there has not been any charge made against the parents or anyone else. The Portuguese police must have a huge amount of information, much of it inadmissible in a court; hearsay, dodgy witnesses, evidence that might have been tampered with (by whomsoever, not just the PJ). If the Portuguese authorities had believed they had a case strong enough to bring to court then presumably they would have done that?

snipped

When it comes to DNA, you only need to look at the OJ trial. The techniques of amplification require almost impossible care in collection, storage and analysis when the samples are tiny. Probably the single biggest weakness in the case against the parents is the lack of a body and the fact that child abduction is not unheard of.

DNA science has advanced considerably since the OJ trial. I find it curious that people can decide that the police probably got it contaminated. Not only that, some people assume that the conditions in the lab can be so lax as to allow contamination by the forensics staff. In fact this is covered by having the full DNA profile of any member of staff, down to the cleaners, so that contamination can always be detected.
So the dogs, the police sampling and the laboratory environment are all to be written off as tainted by incompetence?
The DNA result, the first, which I have no reason to doubt, would have been adequate for a court in the U.K., in Portugal a 100% match is required.
The McCanns were on the point of being charged when the UK Marines stepped in in the form of GB. Amaral lost his job shortly afterwards and the press and government have done nothing but damage limitation since.

The abduction, the Fund, the whole thing was dreamt up by the McCanns with back up from the T 7. Of course a lot of things went wrong, these people are so arrogant and think themselves so superior, they made masses of mistakes, the whole thing is more like a farce than anything else, if it weren't for Maddie.
Murat is on record of saying it was the biggest c... up in history.
They got help and protection only because [b]it was in these people's own interest to help them.

The PJ was about to charge them with the only thing that would stick: hiding a body after an accidental death.
There is absolutely no evidence of an abduction and they have themselves to thank for leaving a mere 3 minutes for two abductors to take Maddie and clean the entire apartment of her and their DNA.
The limit to my credulity was reached long before that.

In the PJ reports there is exhaustive description of the way and manner in which ALL evidence was collected.

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Lemain on 06.10.11 16:32

@tigger wrote:

DNA science has advanced considerably since the OJ trial. I find it curious that people can decide that the police probably got it contaminated. Not only that, some people assume that the conditions in the lab can be so lax as to allow contamination by the forensics staff. In fact this is covered by having the full DNA profile of any member of staff, down to the cleaners, so that contamination can always be detected.
So the dogs, the police sampling and the laboratory environment are all to be written off as tainted by incompetence?
The DNA result, the first, which I have no reason to doubt, would have been adequate for a court in the U.K., in Portugal a 100% match is required.

I don't think that either the UK or Portugal accept DNA evidence alone. There must be other evidence -- factual, circumstantial (very important, actually), motive, and some kind of witnesses (which may be witnesses after the fact such as SOC investigators). The smaller the quantity of DNA-bearing material, the more the test has to amplify the 'signal'. Protocols and techniques have undoubtedly improved enormously since OJ, but the underlying issues are still there. For myself, I think that almost certainly the parents were involved -- at the very least, they know what happened and where Madeleine's body was disposed of. I also strongly suspect that the 'campaign' is an outrageous fraud. Who in their right mind would use Methodo 3? And the guy who was bankrolling them is in prison...almost everyone they dealt with is behind bars. Sounds like a money-laundering thing to me BUT I CANNOT BE CERTAIN AND COULD NOT CONVICT SOLELY ON THE BASIS OF THE EVIDENCE AVAILABLE TO ME.

The McCanns were on the point of being charged when the UK Marines stepped in in the form of GB.

I don't think that we know this to be a FACT? Like you, I suspect that's right but we cannot be certain.

Amaral lost his job shortly afterwards and the press and government have done nothing but damage limitation since.

There is something very odd and unusual in the unbelievably high status of those who have surfaced to help the parents. As many have observed here and elsewhere, had the parents been a typical couple from Scunthorpe; the father a bus driver and the mother a home help, things would have been very different. No Pope. No PM. No fund. No Brian Kennedy. No Clarence. No libel suits. But then again life isn't 'fair' -- we have to accept that. Is the father a freemason? That has always opened doors but then again I've known many decent honest masons with very humble jobs -- VERY humble -- who are also some of the most decent honourable people I have ever met. One comes to mind who most certainly wouldn't have helped to cover up a crime like the one in question.

One of the biggest single issues I have with all this is the idea of premeditation. I can believe that they might have painted themselves into a corner and done some mad, bad even evil things, that they have benefited financially from a massive public fraud, but I have trouble believing it was premeditated.

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I don't know what that means?

Post by tigger on 06.10.11 16:38

@PeterMac wrote:
Get 'em Gonçalo wrote:Cats have got pretty good noses too - I've got two (cat's that is, not noses :roll: )
If you've got two cats, you've got three.
Mr

Hi PeterMac, what does that mean? two cats, three cats?
I was a cat in a previous life, that's why I smelled out the McC's!

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Guest on 06.10.11 16:45

@Lemain wrote:Probably the single biggest weakness in the case against the parents is the lack of a body and the fact that child abduction is not unheard of.
The prosecution will not need a body to convict. There is no evidence to support the abduction hypothesis. You could write a book with the number of inconsistencies there is in everyones statements. The dog evidence alone will be overwhelming and very convincing to a jury. The samples found in the car, cannot be discounted. Maybe the Portuguese sent some samples elsewhere, other than to the FSS and one day this will be a big surprise for everyone. But none of this will be important when the original creche sheets are processed with the latest graphics technology in examining forged handwriting. It is available now and is being used by the likes of the FBI and all the big Banks. The original creche sheets still exist. All the prosecution needs is evidence of deceit as early as the 29th and everything else will just fall apart. bomb
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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Lemain on 06.10.11 17:55

Stella wrote:
@Lemain wrote:Probably the single biggest weakness in the case against the parents is the lack of a body and the fact that child abduction is not unheard of.
The prosecution will not need a body to convict.

I don't see how you can have a murder trial without a dead person? At present, isn't the missing child a Ward of Court? Presumably the first step is to declare the missing person dead, or presumed dead? I think that can take some time, can't it? Didn't the father at some time allude to that in the context of 'no body found'? Almost teasing, or goading, I thought at the time. He certainly has said that there is no evidence that any 'harm' has befallen her -- which is obviously crass given that separation from her family alone is 'harm' albeit mental harm. At this point there is no hard evidence that the girl is dead....which is presumably why they get away with all these silly 'sightings'?

There is no evidence to support the abduction hypothesis.

Well, the evidence (albeit questionable) is that the girl was put to bed in that apartment, with her siblings. Then she 'disappeared'. Abduction has to be considered...indeed, if the premeditated argument holds water, she was removed, slain, and her body disposed of. Abduction. Albeit, perhaps, by her own.

You could write a book with the number of inconsistencies there is in everyones statements. The dog evidence alone will be overwhelming and very convincing to a jury.

If you can convince the British public that Omo washes whiter than Daz by employing an actress to smile and sing on the TV you can convince a British jury that the Duke of Cornwall is living on the breadline...there is no end to what a jury can be made to believe. Surely what interests us here is the truth, not some fudged verdict by a jury of Essex Girls? I'd like to know what happened -- the truth.

But none of this will be important when the original creche sheets are processed with the latest graphics technology in examining forged handwriting. It is available now and is being used by the likes of the FBI and all the big Banks. The original creche sheets still exist. All the prosecution needs is evidence of deceit as early as the 29th and everything else will just fall apart.

I wasn't aware of that line of thinking until I read about it on this site. Can you point me in the direction of a post/thread that discusses it, here, or explain what it's about?

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by aiyoyo on 06.10.11 18:04

Concerning the thread topic, my flabber would be gasted and the world would be shocked to the core if the pair of doctors took their child on holiday deliberately just to pulverized her from Planet Earth! My weak heart is refusing to believe that! Besides there are too many outside elements and people involved to render the plan cast iron proof effective and safe.

I believe she died by accident in the presence of her parents and they then mount an operation to cover up which got so massive they couldnt get off the tiger. It's just like scaling mt everest and they are nearly at the apex, but not quite b/c their exoneration is still to be determined in a court of law. So effectively they are stuck in limbo just below the apex and the ground with no way of return. Descending from their game would mean plummeting to the ground to their death from the height they ascended to.

Well, what goes up must come down...so we shall see what awaits them. Game has multiple rules and anything can go wrong, when their game is over...the truth will out.
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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Lemain on 06.10.11 18:14

@aiyoyo wrote:Concerning the thread topic, my flabber would be gasted and the world would be shocked to the core if the pair of doctors took their child on holiday deliberately just to pulverized her from Planet Earth! My weak heart is refusing to believe that! Besides there are too many outside elements and people involved to render the plan cast iron proof effective and safe.

I believe she died by accident in the presence of her parents......

I agree nearly 100%; I do think it's possible that the child died or was fatally injured while the parents were out. Far too many people involved, as you say, for safety (you wouldn't plan it that way) and why do it in a foreign country? It would be possible for doctors to contrive some means of killing nearer home, surely? To be honest, however they felt about the girl I struggle to believe that they ever wished her dead, or even wished her ill.

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Sorry Lemain, but ..

Post by tigger on 06.10.11 18:54

I don't see where you're coming from. First you say you can easily believe two doctors chopping up their daughter to throw in the river, or tie her body up in ropes and weigh it down, again throw it in the river. Now you say you cannot see them killing the child.
I could never see them physically hands-on killing Maddie, but can well believe an overdose, shaking her when she had a crying fit or was throwing a tantrum (these are all testified by members of his family!). I can also see a scenario where the dose could be increased with some risk. Besides, I don't think Maddie was a very healthy child.
So I can see the 'letting it happen on purpose' quite easily. However that must have happened sufficiently early to allow the planning for the Fund and the publicity.
Since they had such immediate and high powered help, even in an accidental death, this help would have been available to them and could easily have prevented any PM result to be changed. There was no reason to fake an abduction other than the Fund. They did not need money to search for Maddie. Half the world was out there looking for the girl with the thunderbolt eye.
So I've never swallowed the accident - panic - hide the body - let's start a Fund scenario.
Another argument against abduction, why publish a photograph of the child at 2.5 yrs. old, in which she looks nothing like her normal self? And why add the coloboma she didn't have either?
They published a photograph of a child who didn't exist, that surely would be ridiculous if the child was alive?
The PJ may have worked that out fairly early.

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by aiyoyo on 06.10.11 19:09

@Lemain wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:Concerning the thread topic, my flabber would be gasted and the world would be shocked to the core if the pair of doctors took their child on holiday deliberately just to pulverize her from Planet Earth! My weak heart is refusing to believe that! Besides there are too many outside elements and people involved to render the plan cast iron proof effective and safe.

I believe she died by accident in the presence of her parents......

I agree nearly 100%; I do think it's possible that the child died or was fatally injured while the parents were out. Far too many people involved, as you say, for safety (you wouldn't plan it that way) and why do it in a foreign country? It would be possible for doctors to contrive some means of killing nearer home, surely? To be honest, however they felt about the girl I struggle to believe that they ever wished her dead, or even wished her ill.

I agree - I don't believe they wished her dead - it happened.
They come across as narcissists but that does not mean they wished ill of their children.

As for dumping her cadaver in Huelva (sp) I doubt so b/c their trip to Huelva wasnt until Aug but the car was hired in May just 20 something days post Maddie's fate. Surely if the Police thought Maddie was dumped in Huelva they would have got the Spanish police to search the area? So, to me, it cant be that.

The Police were uncertain that Maddie's body was transported in the car...rather they knew things in contact with her cadaver were - that must is evident by the dogs reaction. The PJ most likely wanted to know the reason for their trip or who they'd arranged to meet over there as surely they didnt go all the way to a deserted city just to distribute flyers! When was M3 hired...could the mccanns have met BK and M3 over there to discuss operation PIs?

Maddie's body must be still in PDL or UK - either mccanns managed through their connections to ship her cadaver back or she was dumped at sea in PDL. I cant see them keeping her in situ some where else just to go out to Huelva few months later in Aug to dispose of her there - too wide a time gap for that kind of operation. Besides where would they have stored her meanwhile in between time.

I would wager a bet their Huelva trip was a necessity b/c they had arranged to meet someone and it was an important trip they'd to cover for reason known only to them and they chose that place to avoid police detection since they knew they were under close surveillance in PDL. Otherwise if it was only for flyers distribution they would have cancelled that trip considering they'd already delayed it to a day later b/c PJ surprised them on the day of their leaving for Huelva by showing up with the dogs.

I mean if they knew the implications of those dogs and taken surprise by the sudden operation surely they would want to abandon flyers distribution - as by comparison what would be more troubling to them at that stage - distributing a few flyers or worried about dogs findings?

I suspect the Huelva trip was not cancellable b/c of prior arrangement to meet someone there, and not b/c they'd removed Maddie's body from hiding place just to damp it in Huelva. Having said that I wonder whether they met with anyone along enroute to Huelva? If they did, then maybe Huelva is where police should start looking.
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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Lemain on 06.10.11 19:48

@tigger wrote:I don't see where you're coming from. First you say you can easily believe two doctors chopping up their daughter to throw in the river, or tie her body up in ropes and weigh it down, again throw it in the river. Now you say you cannot see them killing the child.

Obviously you're not a country lad/y Few farmers mistreat their animals, horse owners even 'love' their horses but when they are dead....they are dead. By the way, I also said that I didn't think it likely they'd 'chop up' their daughter -- but they could enshroud her body with chains. Though 'chopping-up' would be the safest solution, of course.

I have never believed that they deliberately killed the child. Indeed I read Ameral's book in French as soon as it hit the French bookshelves and he didn't believe they deliberately murdered the child, either. It seems more likely that there was some accident which would implicate the parents in lack of care -- or maybe worse, sedatives, perhaps -- and lead to a long jail sentence. Given the scenario that the child is dead and for the parents to go to prison, leaving the other children in care, I can understand them trying to cover it up.

I could never see them physically hands-on killing Maddie

We can agree on that

Besides, I don't think Maddie was a very healthy child.

They would be very odd human beings if they didn't use all their skills, wealth and connections to get the best possible care for their daughter no matter how ill she was. I've worked with some sick people over the years -- physical and mental problems (no, I'm not medical) -- and I can tell you that parents generally take more s**t from utterly horrid offspring than you'd imagine yet still have more love and kindness to give. But once dead, things change.

Since they had such immediate and high powered help, even in an accidental death, this help would have been available to them and could easily have prevented any PM result to be changed.

I don't see how they could know that unless you subscribe to the premeditated school of thought.

There was no reason to fake an abduction other than the Fund.

And avoid prosecution and possibly gaol in a foreign country.

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Lemain on 06.10.11 19:58

@aiyoyo wrote:...........
I suspect the Huelva trip was not cancellable b/c of prior arrangement to meet someone there, and not b/c they'd removed Maddie's body from hiding place just to damp it in Huelva.

In the UK you can legally buy mobiles with or without SIM with cash over the counter -- e.g. Carphone Warehouse. I did so a couple of weeks ago. In Spain they make you register with ID. I don't know about Portugal. Gibraltar needs no ID. France needs ID. But it would be ever so easy for someone in the UK to buy a few PAYG mobiles and pop a couple in a Jiffy bag to Portugal....nobody would know who was using them particularly if the contacts were by texts in loose code e.g. 'Sammy gone to Huelva said will see you there' or 'Sammy can't make Huelva'. No need for anything very cunning. You could do the same with gash email addresses and Internet Cafes but probably less convenient.

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by kikoraton on 06.10.11 20:03

Hello Lemain.
If you have time, you might like to read my thread on this forum "How maddie's creche attendance was quote arranged unquote". I understand you are a stickler for accuracy, and i would simply say that, at some point, I suggested the title might be changed to ".....might have been "arranged"". But I don't think the idea caught on.
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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Guest on 06.10.11 20:15

@Lemain wrote:
@aiyoyo wrote:...........
I suspect the Huelva trip was not cancellable b/c of prior arrangement to meet someone there, and not b/c they'd removed Maddie's body from hiding place just to damp it in Huelva.

In the UK you can legally buy mobiles with or without SIM with cash over the counter -- e.g. Carphone Warehouse. I did so a couple of weeks ago. In Spain they make you register with ID. I don't know about Portugal. Gibraltar needs no ID. France needs ID. But it would be ever so easy for someone in the UK to buy a few PAYG mobiles and pop a couple in a Jiffy bag to Portugal....nobody would know who was using them particularly if the contacts were by texts in loose code e.g. 'Sammy gone to Huelva said will see you there' or 'Sammy can't make Huelva'. No need for anything very cunning. You could do the same with gash email addresses and Internet Cafes but probably less convenient.

They definitely had Portuguese mobiles - some of the Tapas 7 statements mention them when questioned about their phone records and calls made to /received from Portuguese numbers. Their explanation was that Kate/Gerry's mobiles were running out of charge so obviously rather than find a charger, you would go for the other option of a Portuguese mobile! Think it was said that Fiona Payne's brother in law (Simon Aldridge, or maybe that is the phonetic spelling and it was Simon Oldridge) knew someone in Portugal and arranged for them to get phones which were delivered to them within a few days of Madeleine's reported disappearance... I posted details of this on another topic - will see if I can just post the location of the post here just for completeness...also want to check I am remembering right..

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make amongst my ramblings is that they certainly admit to having Portuguese mobiles soon after 3 May and who knows may have had them before that date as there is a period of time where there was no activity on their UK mobiles..

------------------
From Tapas Phone Autopsy topic page 6:

t also appears that there were a number of portuguese phones being used on that holiday... DP statement indicates that by late evening on the friday they had portuguese phones in their hands sorted out by a portuguese friend of FP's brother in law (SA)...so maybe there were other phones available earlier than the friday, which could acount for the huge gaps in their uk mobile records.... can't believe that portuguese phones needed because they didn't have a charger!
Portuguese mobiles also mentioned in JT and FP's rogatory interviews....

would love to see the call records for these portuguese mobiles!

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

1485 "The same yeah. Okay, we'll move on, this is a small number and it, it is ***."
Reply "So that's a local number?"

1485 "I think..."
01:26:10 Reply "Yeah, I mean it may well have been SA gave us a contact of someone that was a friend of the family in Portugal who could get us mobile phones because Kate and Gerry hadn't got any contact, way of contacting, their batteries were running out or something like that so SAhad basically said there's, these people that we know there and that could have been it."
1485 "Or, because then there were two text messages sent about half past, about ten o' clock on the Friday evening to that number."

Reply "Oh to that number, well that wouldn't make sense."
1485 "No."
Reply "Err..."

1485 "From that number to your number."
Reply "Oh, it could have been then, if they text me saying oh I hope everything's alright, you've got the phones and everything, that's the only thing."


[url= http://www.mccannfiles.com/id180.html] http://www.mccannfiles.com/id180.html[/url]

The importance of phone calls

The extensive analysis that is carried out on all telephone communications that were made by the nine English people during their entire stay in Portugal is an important detail of the official investigation into Maddie's disappearance.

It is Jane Tanner who reveals to the English police that David and Fiona Payne used a Portuguese mobile phone at the time when Madeleine disappeared, a situation that was not even unique given the fact that Kate and Gerry McCann also had phones with a Portuguese chip at their disposal, some of which were never known to the PJ.

When questioned in England about her own phone communications, Jane Tanner identifies all of the correspondents as being friends or relatives, yet fails to identify the owner of a Portuguese mobile phone whom she calls and sends text messages after Maddie's disappearance. The question would never be clarified.




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Stewie

Post by tigger on 06.10.11 20:50

Lovely jubbly isn't it? Honestly, every time I see Gerry I think of Delboy.
Kikatoran did a great job on the phone records. But now I hear from you that there are Portugese phone records missing. Shame.
Still, K has managed to correlate a few calls with the Burgau apartment? I think they had a few very useful contacts there.

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Guest on 06.10.11 20:59

@tigger wrote:Lovely jubbly isn't it? Honestly, every time I see Gerry I think of Delboy.
Kikatoran did a great job on the phone records. But now I hear from you that there are Portugese phone records missing. Shame.
Still, K has managed to correlate a few calls with the Burgau apartment? I think they had a few very useful contacts there.

Kikatoran has done an amazing job - didn't realise there were phone links to Burgau apartment... wow...

I just love the awkward reasoning for why they needed mobiles:

because Kate and Gerry hadn't got any contact
way of contacting
their batteries were running out
or something like that

I must get my limited photoshopping skills to work and create a photo of gerry as delboy to have as my avatar! big grin
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Hello Lemain

Post by tigger on 07.10.11 7:42

From your post in 'Guardiano River'quote
The river is well-stocked with fish of all kinds -- from freshwater, brackish and salt, at the estuary. The speed depends on how much rain there has been and the amount let out from the dam further upstream. There are wide, slow-flowing sections and narrower fast-flowing sections. A lot depends on how grizzly one imagines the disposal process...it pains me to even consider that. I suppose smaller pieces would be 'safer'. The entire river is desolate along both banks. I have some photos but not readily to hand...one would not be disturbed for ages and there is little chance of being seen. It's the only place that seems to 'tick all the boxes' and given the McCanns' apparent access to information sources and advice, it would not be surprising if they found out about it quite quickly if they didn't already know it. It is a beautiful drive albeit desolate particularly around dusk and dawn, and at night, of course.
unquot
From your post here: quote
Obviously you're not a country lad/y Few farmers mistreat their animals, horse owners even 'love' their horses but when they are dead....they are dead. By the way, I also said that I didn't think it likely they'd 'chop up' their daughter -- but they could enshroud her body with chains. Though 'chopping-up' would be the safest solution, of course. unquote.

I took the first quote to mean that it pained you to think so but it was a distinct possibility, so imo the second quote in bold doesn't follow.
I also think comparing the feelings of loving parents to that of a farmer for that of his stock, really doesn't make sense. This whole case is so strange because these are very strange, absolutely not normal parents. That is the fons et origo of the whole affair. Had they been normal parents, this website wouldn't exist.
By the way, I lived for over twenty year in rural Herefordshire and will be returning there soon.








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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Get'emGonçalo on 07.10.11 7:48

Stewie wrote:I must get my limited photoshopping skills to work and create a photo of gerry as delboy to have as my avatar! big grin

Didn't Delboy once go to a fancy dress party with Rodney as Batman and Robin? titter

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Guest on 07.10.11 8:35

@Lemain wrote:I wasn't aware of that line of thinking until I read about it on this site. Can you point me in the direction of a post/thread that discusses it, here, or explain what it's about?
I see that Kiko has already pointed you in the right direction, there is also another thread on this very subject right here https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t2922-the-creche-enquiry
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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Guest on 07.10.11 8:40


Here we have supposedly two different men signing in their 'own' children.

What are the chances of them both having the exact same writing style?
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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Lemain on 07.10.11 10:01

Stella wrote:
Here we have supposedly two different men signing in their 'own' children.

What are the chances of them both having the exact same writing style?

I'd read (most) of that thread last night but I still cannot see why it is particularly significant. From the image above, it seems that the name is the name of the child. In this case Elizabeth Nayler(?) was signed-in by the same person as MMcCann. So what? I'm sure I'd offer to take a friend's child to the creche if I was taking my own and it would never cross my mind -- provided that I was known to the staff and properly entitled to the service -- that it would be in any way wrong. The adult would have been acting in loco parentis -- surely a perfectly normal and natural thing? Is there any special reason why eyebrows should be raised in the McCann case?

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Re: Pre-meditated and planned long in advance?

Post by Guest on 07.10.11 10:19

@Lemain wrote:
I'd read (most) of that thread last night but I still cannot see why it is particularly significant. From the image above, it seems that the name is the name of the child. In this case Elizabeth Nayler(?) was signed-in by the same person as MMcCann.
Are you saying then that you think the same person wrote both entries? clapping1

So what?
So what !! Gerry McCann is asked if he knew anyone else out there that week, or who he spent time with and he never mentions this person, or possibly taking another persons child to creche and you do not think this is significant?

I'm sure I'd offer to take a friend's child (yes a friend, someone you knew, not a complete stranger and that is the point) to the creche if I was taking my own and it would never cross my mind -- provided that I was known to the staff and properly entitled to the service -- that it would be in any way wrong.
Correct. You would make arrangements with the staff and then sign in YOUR name, not someone elses for BOTH children !!!

The adult would have been acting in loco parentis -- surely a perfectly normal and natural thing? Is there any special reason why eyebrows should be raised in the McCann case?
Oh yes and for many reasons. Not to mention the nanny Cat Baker, who fails to mention Gerry bringing and possibly signing in another little girl that week.
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