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The Renault Scenic

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by tigger on 06.04.14 19:04

- and here is another car topic with a discussion on the mileage.
Voila! winkwink 

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by NickE on 18.05.15 19:25

"The Renault Scenic hired by the McCanns with the number plate 59 DA 27 that had been returned to Budget Lagos was damaged. It seems the cars front left door lock had been tampered with. This information was obtained by Stephen D. Birch from an employee of the company AA Castanheira in Faro"


Has anyone seen the information about the alleged damage to the car from another source?

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The Scenic scene seen...

Post by missbeetle on 19.05.15 21:36

I wasn't quite sure where to put this rather arresting photograph :



Here's as good a place as any - seeing as Gerry is just about to motor off in the Scenic...

...fleeing the scene, like.


He looks guilty as all hell here -

- the gentleman in the green shirt seems to think so, too.

I wonder who he is? A passer-by?


My thoughts only.

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Hired Help - The Renault Scenic

Post by Verdi on 16.08.15 22:34

Linda Ruth McQueen (family friend) witness statement 7th May 2008.

"During 2007 I travelled to Portugal on 3 separate occasions: from 12 - 19 May; 26 - 29 June; and 19 - 26 August.."

"During the first week (12th/19th May) that I was in Portugal Kate and Gerry were transported [driven] by representatives of Mark Warner. Sandy Cameron (Gerry McCann's brother in law) was also there and possessed a hire car, but it was not the Renault Scenic that Gerry and Kate rented during the third week that I stayed with them in Portugal.."

"In the second week that I was there (26th/29th June), I travelled [to Portugal] with Nicky Gill. We stayed with the Trish and Sandy in the apartment close to Kate and Gerry. On this occasion Gerry drove a hire car but I do not remember if it was the previous car of Sandy or the Renault scenic.."

"In the third week I travelled [to Portugal] with my husband (19th/26th August), Mark, our daughter Ellie and the priest Paul Seddon. Ellie and I stayed in the Villa that Kate and Gerry had rented, Paul and Mark stayed in an apartment in the immediate vicinity. During this period both Kate and Gerry drove the Renault Scenic and I travelled frequently in that vehicle.."

Sandy Cameron's rogatory interview 15th April 2008

"On the 27th of May of 2007, Gerry was handed a rental vehicle in the Mark Warner tourist complex; a Renault Scenic with plate number 59-DA-27. I met with the representative of the car rental agency at Gerry's request, and as such, my name was also on the rental contract so that I could also drive the vehicle.."

"I was the habitual driver of the vehicle and used it daily.."

"in my opinion, it is impossible that Kate and Gerry could have hidden Madeleine or used the car to transport her to another locale. There was always a lot of people and the media observing their movements which would make this impossible.."

madeleine by Kate McCann

"Now that it looked as if we were going to be based in Praia da Luz for the long haul, with frequent journeys to airports and regular meetings set up with the police at the British Consulate in Portimão, we'd decided it would be easier if we had our own car. We'd duly taken possession of a rented Renault Scenic on 27 May..   We left for Madrid on Thursday 31 May.."

"Since 4 May, practically every step we'd taken outside our Mark Warner apartment or the villa had been followed on television by the entire world. How could we possibly have secretly hidden our daughter's body, in such a safe place that it hadn't been discovered, and then removed it (if our hiding place was that good, I wonder why would we have bothered), transported it in our Renault Scenic (which we hadn't hired until 27 May) and buried her elsewhere - all without our media stalkers ever noticing a thing? It simply wasn't feasible.."

NOTES:
As regards the Renault Grand Scenic, number plate 59-DA-27, it was hired by Gerry from Rent a car AA. Castanheira, with offices in Lagos, on 27-05-2007 and was delivered to the McCann couple at the apartment they were occupying in P da L, from which time it was noted in the contract that a friend of the McCanns, Alexander Cameron, was noted as an additional driver.  At a later date, at the end of August, another additional driver was added to the contract, Michael Terrence Wright.

12 May 2007  -  Robert Murat hires a car from Auto Rent Algarve for the period 12/ 15th May 2007 . He is reported to be desperate to get a vehicle.

The return of the car to the rental agency, was done at the agency's offices on 23-09-2007 by a Caucasian individual, who appeared there alone, speaking English, about 1.80 cm tall, with short grey hair, about 60-65 years old, who signed the delivery document for the return of the car, but whose signature is illegible.  When the car was delivered to the McCanns it had 3.114 km on the clock and when it was returned it had 14.443 km on the clock, thus 11.227 km had been travelled during the period the car was in their possession.

madeleine by kate mccann..


(Tuesday 11th September 2007)  - "Having no knowledge at this point of what had or had not been found by the forensic tests commissioned by the PJ, we wanted to conduct our own, independent examination. Michael and Angus suggested that we arrange for a full forensic screen to be performed on the Renault Scenic hire car, which had been left with a friend in Praia da Luz."

(Admin. please move if there is an existing thread)

Merged with Renault Scenic thread.  Mod.

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the renault vehicle

Post by willowthewisp on 17.08.15 10:52

Hi Verdi,
So factually,Kate states they had the car"Examined"(cleaned for an independent report)Why to check for residues of Sea Bass,dripping Beef,dirty nappies,er yep?
The kind gentleman(?) who stored the car on behalf of Gerry,Kate, was a Mr John Geraherty, a close friend and member of a Rotherly golf club, along with other hirer's of the same car and same golf club from the UK of which Gerry was a member of,coincidence?
The Portugal PJ could not find a Mr John Brown who first hired the Renault?

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by HelenMeg on 17.08.15 11:47

Interesting thread ...... glad it has been resurrected.

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by Sarah_Lambert on 17.08.15 12:17

Why was the Renault Scenic handed back to the McCann couple after the dogs alerted to blood and death scent in it?

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the renault vehicle

Post by willowthewisp on 17.08.15 12:42

Hi Sarah, good point?
I do not have an answer for your question, but why would the parents wish to purchase the same vehicle from the hire company for what reason, disposal of potential incriminating evidence within vehicle?
The PJ got hold of the vehicle in early August 2007, the McCanns were made arquidos September 6/9 2007 and the vehicle was left for Mr John Geraghty to return to hire company thirteen days after the couple fled for home with a Police escort 10 September 2007.

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by Verdi on 17.08.15 15:28

willowthewisp wrote:Hi Verdi,
So factually,Kate states they had the car"Examined"(cleaned for an independent report)Why to check for residues of Sea Bass,dripping Beef,dirty nappies,er yep?
The kind gentleman(?) who stored the car on behalf of Gerry,Kate, was a Mr John Geraherty, a close friend and member of a Rotherly golf club, along with other hirer's of the same car and same golf club from the UK of which Gerry was a member of,coincidence?
The Portugal PJ could not find a Mr John Brown who first hired the Renault?
Howdy!  I'm no expert in law (least of all Portuguese) but I would suggest that their action in this respect (if true which I believe it is) is a clear cut case of perverting the course of justice!  Tampering with vital evidence and interferring with an active investigation?

The name Gerherty's of Irish origin isn't it, what with that and the bloke from Scotland - ah well, all roads lead to Rome!  I digress..

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by Verdi on 17.08.15 15:30

The McCanns only defence in regards to the hypothesis that the Renault Scenic was used to transport Madeleine's body (based on the specialist dog alerts) is the oft repeated claim that it would have been impossible with the world media watching their every move.  They were not familiar with the region they didn't know anybody in the locality and didn't hire a car until late May 2007 (curiously only hours away from the European tour departure).

But..  as time progressed more and more little snippets have were uncovered which shows their defence to be somewhat economical with the truth - unless they can claim not having actually told downright lies but simply failed to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  I believe from around 4th/5th May there was a constant stream of comings and goings - people 'there to help' !?!   As far as I can see, during the subsequent days/weeks/months, there was every opportunity for a body to be re-located even if not by the parents own hands.

Suddenly we learn that there allegedly was transport available other than the Renault Scenic laid on for the McCanns personal use and we learn that they (and/or other group members) apparently did know people in Portugal - even if not resident in or around PdL.  Throw a good deal of confusion in the works and yes, I think they had ample opportunity to conceal and dispose of a body.

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by HelenMeg on 17.08.15 17:17

At the end of the day, the dogs alerted to the car key fob and 'under spare wheel' area. I think it is reasonable to theorise that a dead body or residue froma dead body was transported by that
car.  Also, when Kate says in an interview, words to the effect of ' as if we would transport the body 7 weeks later under the glare of publicity in that hired car' and snarls her lip in scorn - I am inclined to believe that is exactly what happened. They seem to think its clever to use the ploy of showing scorn at things they actually did .... as if to say 'As if...'. to make it look as if we are the fools for thinking it.....

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by tigger on 18.08.15 9:50

missbeetle wrote:I wasn't quite sure where to put this rather arresting photograph :



Here's as good a place as any - seeing as Gerry is just about to motor off in the Scenic...

...fleeing the scene, like.


He looks guilty as all hell here -

- the gentleman in the green shirt seems to think so, too.

I wonder who he is? A passer-by?


My thoughts only.

Perhaps this was the occasion when Gerry told the press they were being stitched up?


Victims of the rumour mill? Timesonline  

 

David James Smith, Steven Swinford and Richard Woods

September 9, 2007

 

After a dramatic twist, are the Portuguese police close to solving the most extraordinary disappearance of recent years?

 

As Gerry McCann emerged from Porti-mao police station at midnight on Friday, he stared unblinkingly into the distance while his lawyer read out a statement. The consultant cardiologist, said the lawyer, had just joined his wife as a prime suspect in the death of his daughter, Madeleine, who went missing four months ago.

 

Beneath his unflinching exterior, Gerry was in a state of turmoil and fury. "We are being absolutely stitched up by the Portuguese police," he had told a friend after his wife Kate had earlier been named a suspect after hours of interrogation. "We are completely f*****, we should have seen this coming weeks ago and gone back to Britain."

unquote

Such language for a doctor! The book tells us that Gerry  said 'They've got nothing!' once they returned from the arguido interviews.

Brother John was the one who told the world at an early stage in the affair  that people owed them favours and they called them in'.

Dear, dear...

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by Verdi on 18.08.15 22:44


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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by tigger on 19.08.15 9:57

Verdi wrote:
thumbup  amazing, how you got hold of this clip of the Rothley Golf Club members after a boozy night in town...

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by ryanm on 20.08.15 21:32

I've done a quick summary of the hire car. No doubt mentioned before, Walkden's opening and closing mileage seems odd as it jumps from 823 kms closing for Patterson to 4099 and all on the one day. Looking at Walkdens closing compared to Lowe's opening it simply looks like someone had a typo and added 4k. But if it's a simple typo why would you insert 4099 insetad of 823? It's a puzzle. Walkden's statement isn't clear either. He states that he believed he had driven a Megane and he believed it was dark in colour. Just wondering if it's possible he was allocated the wrong car as their party was in 4 groups of 3. By coincidence is they had another Wright in their party. 



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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by HelenMeg on 20.08.15 21:39

Should Arthur Walkden not be Ken Walkden?  nOr did he actually register his name as Arthur?

Ken Walkden was a member of Rothley Park Golf Club who claimed he did not know Gerry, also a member of the same club.

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by ryanm on 20.08.15 21:47

HelenMeg wrote:Should Arthur Walkden not be Ken Walkden?  nOr did he actually register his name as Arthur?

Ken Walkden was a member of Rothley Park Golf Club who claimed he did not know Gerry, also a member of the same club.

Thanks HelenMeg, I've changed that now and am off to read more about Rothley Park Golf Club.
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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by TheTruthWillOut on 20.08.15 22:36

The mileage of the Renault has always been odd but the "fast and loose" style the rental company used in documenting the mileage would probably render it legally moot.

Taking just the start-PJ-end mileage has correct you get:

3114 kms - 27/5/07 - Start
9329 kms - 06/08/07 - PJ search of car
14443 kms - 23/09/07 End

The McCanns left on the 9/9/07 and the car is said to have been in possession of JG until he? returned it on the 23/9/07. Assuming he didn't use the car then it covered over 5000 kms between 6/8/07 (don't know date of return to M's?) and 9/9/07 when the McCanns left for home.

Considering by that point there were few family members to transport about, where did the car go to clock up so many kilometers in a month?
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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by tigger on 21.08.15 10:15

TheTruthWillOut wrote:The mileage of the Renault has always been odd but the "fast and loose" style the rental company used in documenting the mileage would probably render it legally moot.

Taking just the start-PJ-end mileage has correct you get:

3114 kms - 27/5/07 - Start
9329 kms - 06/08/07 - PJ search of car
14443 kms - 23/09/07 End

The McCanns left on the 9/9/07 and the car is said to have been in possession of JG until he? returned it on the 23/9/07. Assuming he didn't use the car then it covered over 5000 kms between 6/8/07 (don't know date of return to M's?) and 9/9/07 when the McCanns left for home.

Considering by that point there were few family members to transport about, where did the car go to clock up so many kilometers in a month?

It is rather strange that just K. Walkden's rental  of the Scenic is the one that is in doubt. He talks about a totally different car in his rogatory it seems and thinks it was  blue. Given that - he also lives  a stone's throw from Rothley Towers and is a member of Rothley Golf Club. 
Given that Gerry had been to Portugal on Golf trips - what are the chances  of it being with that club and why should only K. Walkden's testimony be the one that does not fit..the mileage is all wrong iirc.

Kate did drive the Renault illegally, according to her own book – she drove tot eh airport to pick up Gerry after his second trip to the UK, they encountered the drunk in the road on the way back –Kate was never entered as driver for the car.

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by ryanm on 21.08.15 10:22

Just wondering if it's possible to cover the scenic in Portugal from one's UK insurance policy?
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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by tigger on 21.08.15 10:38

As there are several car topics -here is a harvest  from:


Harvested from the topic’:  çoincidences and the car hire

p. 272 "The meticulous record of events in my journals enabled us to account for every journey we made in the Renault Scenic, taking us to within a few kilometres of the much-publicized ‘unexplained mystery mileage of the McCanns’ hire car’ which, of course, was not a mystery at all."

 So pre the the writing of the book, the mileage must have been discussed seriously enough to warrant this disclaimer.
Can't recall reading in
the diary:  had some chocolate, Gerry contacted Elton John, walked to the supermarket for a bottle of New Zealand white and had a few glasses.  Mileage today: 4534.....or as the case may be: trip meter..
Or each time
the car was used, by whoever did, For Kate was never a listed driver.
Adding up all those trips? Over more than three months?


in the Renault Scenic topic is a post on Amaral having questioned the mileage, so no wonder the explanation had to go into the book.
For some reason
the question could not be ignored. It does imply that Kate wrote down every trip they made? Such as the one where the twins had a tantrum when they went to buy shoes for them, every trip to the local waste disposal and the odd trip to Burgau. And in all that time Kate was never a named driver, too busy writing down the trip details?

In total
the three car topics should have nearly all the answers.
I wonder if
the Scenic spent a long time in Geraghty's garage for their 'own' forensic experts to research.
Never seen
the results. .... Special dogs who only react to dirty nappies?   

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/C/p2917.jpg Odometer= 5866km 01-09-07

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_2955.jpg Odometer= 14443 23-09-07


The McCanns' as we know left Portugal on the 9th September, so did all other family/friends leave by that day too? 

Here is an interesting article from  September 2007 where it is alleged that the McCanns were given another car but the same numberplate.

Certainly two separate cars would make more sense in terms of
the km reading of the last three weeks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482815/Madeleines-parents-British-police-bugging-phone-calls-emails.html#ixzz2KdCnTXSy

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by Guest on 21.08.15 14:44

tigger wrote:As there are several car topics -here is a harvest  from:


Harvested from the topic’:  çoincidences and the car hire

p. 272 "The meticulous record of events in my journals enabled us to account for every journey we made in the Renault Scenic, taking us to within a few kilometres of the much-publicized ‘unexplained mystery mileage of the McCanns’ hire car’ which, of course, was not a mystery at all."

 So pre the the writing of the book, the mileage must have been discussed seriously enough to warrant this disclaimer.
Can't recall reading in
the diary:  had some chocolate, Gerry contacted Elton John, walked to the supermarket for a bottle of New Zealand white and had a few glasses.  Mileage today: 4534.....or as the case may be: trip meter..
Or each time
the car was used, by whoever did, For Kate was never a listed driver.
Adding up all those trips? Over more than three months?


in the Renault Scenic topic is a post on Amaral having questioned the mileage, so no wonder the explanation had to go into the book.
For some reason
the question could not be ignored. It does imply that Kate wrote down every trip they made? Such as the one where the twins had a tantrum when they went to buy shoes for them, every trip to the local waste disposal and the odd trip to Burgau. And in all that time Kate was never a named driver, too busy writing down the trip details?

In total
the three car topics should have nearly all the answers.
I wonder if
the Scenic spent a long time in Geraghty's garage for their 'own' forensic experts to research.
Never seen
the results. .... Special dogs who only react to dirty nappies?   

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/C/p2917.jpg Odometer= 5866km 01-09-07

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P11/11_VOLUME_XIa_Page_2955.jpg Odometer= 14443 23-09-07


The McCanns' as we know left Portugal on the 9th September, so did all other family/friends leave by that day too? 

Here is an interesting article from  September 2007 where it is alleged that the McCanns were given another car but the same numberplate.

Certainly two separate cars would make more sense in terms of
the km reading of the last three weeks.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-482815/Madeleines-parents-British-police-bugging-phone-calls-emails.html#ixzz2KdCnTXSy

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by HelenMeg on 21.08.15 14:57

lkden not be Ken Walkden?  nOr did he actually register his name as Arthur?
ryanm wrote:
HelenMeg wrote:
Ken Walkden was a member of Rothley Park Golf Club who claimed he did not know Gerry, also a member of the same club.

Thanks HelenMeg, I've changed that now and am off to read more about Rothley Park Golf Club.
RyanM

Its quite interesting to research the links within Rothley Park Golf Club.  I seem to remember RPGC's pro Mr Spillane spent a lot of time in the Algarve working at one of the Golf Clubs near PdL.
Also, 3 Leicestershire Business men set up Vigia Group - setting up Golf Club Resorts in Algarve..

Here is the link where this was discussed ....its really worth a read of all of this

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t6458p490-mccanns-hire-car-contract

 https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t6458p500-mccanns-hire-car-contract

To me it shows strong links - Rothley Park Golf Club - Leicester Business men - Algarve - Golfing

I have always thought that there are a number of factors indicating the common denominators of the people who were in PdL that week - property / development / golf / adult lifestyle / investment.

I think the people there  enjoyed adult lifestyle activities / had money to invest / were social climbers

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by cbeagle on 21.08.15 14:59

Did Kate have to be a named driver? In UK & US it's usually the case that the spouse of the renter is a valid driver, probably if over 25.

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Re: The Renault Scenic

Post by HelenMeg on 21.08.15 15:00

This is a post I made a long time ago on page 51 of the above thread...I thought I'd made a break through!




HURRAH - Found a link I was looking for !!!!!!!!!!!!


Andy BurridgeConsultant
25 years past experience in the Luxury Overseas holiday and property market. In the role of Sales and Marketing Director successfully sold out numerous luxury resort developments in the Algarve, as well as pioneered freehold shared ownership. Consultant to The Vigia Group, Barclays Lisbon, Abacus Savills and La Perla International.

He is possibly husband of Nancy Burridge who found the bag of clothes - !! so that bag must've been a red herring

Oh My God - see what Andy's company does!!!! REad the bottom line below - creating livelier off peak operations - this may be linked to swinging events



OwnerShare Hotel
The Fractional Ownership Consultancy has developed a model for fractionalising resort hotels.
Consider the advantages over conventional funding:
• The hotel room can be sold off-plan to investors or lifestyle purchasers.
• Sales therefore fund the build and upfront capitalisation is kept to a minimum.
• Hotel operating profits are maximised because the cost of funding is minimised.
• Owners/investors utilise the property, creating livelier off-peak operations.

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