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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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Playground Photo

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Post by Guest 05.09.15 20:59

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - Interesting observations. 
 I can't see a woman looking at the camera/photographer.  Woman on left is looking ahead, IMO.
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Post by skyrocket 05.09.15 21:09

@ Ladyinred - Sorry was being too lazy to look up the original full frame photo to copy across, so was commenting from memory!

Here's the full shot with said lady to left:

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Post by Nina 05.09.15 21:15

skyrocket wrote:@ Ladyinred - Sorry was being too lazy to look up the original full frame photo to copy across, so was commenting from memory!

Here's the full shot with said lady to left:

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And  where are the other tapas children and parents?

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Post by skyrocket 05.09.15 21:26

@ Nina - Hi

Not sure what you're asking?

If the 3 figures have been plucked from a beach photo, tapas parents/children might have been in the original shot, might not. Impossible to answer. Is it relevant? The more people photoshopped - the more work involved.

Just an observation looking at Sean's pose and the apparent lack of interest in the pink figure.
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Post by Tony Bennett 05.09.15 21:32

@ skyrocket and @ Nina

Albeit with due respect, I profoundly disagree with you both.

These attempts to suggest that this photograph has been carefully and artfully photoshopped for some purpose are simply not justified by any evidence.

This photo, as most on this thread seem to agree, is one of three pictures taken at the Ocean Club playground, almost certainly on the day of arrival.

Here is one of the other two pictures:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

In all three, Madeleine is wearing the same clothes.

They all seem wholly consistent with a happy and healthy 3-year-old who is running around and enjoying herself in a brand new playground.

In addition, the shadows on the photograph are consistent with each other and with the likely time these photos were taken, namely late afternoon after the McCanns arrived at Faro Airport, had been driven to Praia da Luz, and shown to their apartment.

As Marian [then Jean, now 'Freedom' on candyfloss's forum] observed up the thread, these three photographs are also wholly consistent with the images of Madeleine from the 'airport bus' and 'climbing the aircraft steps' videos, taken the same day, both of which feature Madeleine and have been widely circulated.   

To respond specifically to Nina's post where she writes: "She also has two left feet, sorry, yes I know this has been said before. Sean looks to be  kneeling on Gerry 's left foot he is also leaning forward and She also has two left feet, sorry, yes I know this has been said before.Sean  looks to be  kneeling on Gerry 's left foot he is also leaning forward and with nothing in front of him but fresh air he is going to fall forward.

------

re: "She also has two left feet"

REPLY: I disagree. I do not see that at all

re: "Sean looks to be kneeling on Gerry's left foot"

REPLY: I simply see Sean kneeling on the grass, somewhere in front of Gerry's left foot

re: "[Sean] is also leaning forward and with nothing in front of him but fresh air he is going to fall forward".

REPLY: I fully agree with that. He is playing on the grass and in a second or two his hands will also be on the grass. Nothing remotely exceptional about that - he is an active two-year-old, and this is a photo of plenty of action taking place around Gerry.

I am afraid these claims of photoshopping of the three playground photos just take us away from the three things I think we should really be discussing about photos of Madeleine on this holiday, namely:

1. Whether, as PeterMac and others have suggested, with plenty of evidence brought to bear, that the 'Last Photo' was actually taken on the Sunday (29 April)

2. Whether the 'Tennis Balls Photo' is genuine, having regard e.g. to the fact that two different people claim to have taken it, and doubts about if and when any tennis session for the children took place, and

3. Given the doubts about the Tennis Balls photo and the evidence that the Last Photo was taken on the Sunday, why there is no rock solid photographic evidence of Madeleine on that holiday after Sunday lunch-time.

Here is a short article on the subject that I compiled for a Facebook group recently in response to a couple of people:

THE 7 (OR) 8 PHOTOS OF MADELEINE ON HOLIDAY IN PRAIA DA LUZ, 2007
         
This is a response to Martina McCosker, who said “I still find it baffling that there is not ONE photo of Madeleine on this holiday, apart from the dodgy ones”. That is incorrect. She added: “I think she was there, but for how long?”  That is a statement and question I fully agree with.

I suggest there are in fact SEVEN genuine photos of Madeleine on that holiday, and ONE possible forgery.

In summary. there are two videos of Madeleine on the journey to Portugal, four photos, one of them black-and-white, probably taken on the Saturday, the so-called ‘Last Photo’, which appears to have been taken on the second day of the holiday, and finally the so-called ‘Tennis Balls Photo’, which evidence suggest may be a forgery.

In more detail, we have:

1. A video showing Madeleine on the airport bus. Kate has her arms round the twins. Gerry sits moodily and unhappy in a corner. Madeleine swings her legs somewhere between the two of them: Saturday

2. A video showing Madeleine running across the airport tarmac and then up the aircraft steps: SATURDAY

3. Three colour photos of Madeleine in the Ocean Club playground, two by a Wendy House. She is dressed the same  way in all three photos. These appear to be pictures of a happy-go-lucky 3-year-old, excited on the first day of the holiday: SATURDAY

4. A grainy black-and-white image of a happy-looking Madeleine with the elder of the Paynes’ two children, extracted by a Hampshire police officer on Wednesday 9 May: I suggest this was also taken on the SATURDAY

5. The so-called ‘Last Photo’, with Madeleine at the pool, laughing at something. It is claimed by the McCanns that this photo was taken at 2.29pm on Thursday 3 May. Two international photographic experts have given their professional opinion that this is a genuine photo with no evidence at all of photshopping. However, careful analysis of this photo suggests that it may have been taken at about mid-day on the SUNDAY (I will expand on this if asked)

6. The ‘Tennis Balls Photo’. Certain features of this photo and contradictory statements about when it was taken suggest that it could be a cunning forgery.

I agree with that even with the above seven genuine photos, that is very few for a holiday that lasted nearly a week. But the much more significant issue raised by the above analysis is why there appear to be no photos of Madeleine after mid-day Sunday.
Victoria Cairns asked:  “Why no photos, no DNA?, no toothbrush?”. In the light f the above analysis, I would rephrase that question as follows: “Why no genuine photos of Madeleine after Sunday mid-day, no DNA?, no toothbrush”. 

++++++++++++++++++++++

Once again, respect to you both, skyrocket and Nina.

But I think you were taking us down entirely the wrong track 

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Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Make no mistake, it's a fake...

Post by missbeetle 05.09.15 21:47

Your beachly explanation does make sense to me, Skyrocket -

(that post you wrote a while ago on the 'Madeleine Was Here' scene

was a cracker, very astute)

especially if you add in this photograph of a girl in pink :

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

(snipped from my post on the thread 'A new Photograph...?')


...and Nina, I agree with your observations, too.

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Post by Nina 05.09.15 22:32

Tony Bennett wrote:@ skyrocket and @ Nina

Albeit with due respect, I profoundly disagree with you both.

These attempts to suggest that this photograph has been carefully and artfully photoshopped for some purpose are simply not justified by any evidence.

This photo, as most on this thread seem to agree, is one of three pictures taken at the Ocean Club playground, almost certainly on the day of arrival.

Here is one of the other two pictures:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

In all three, Madeleine is wearing the same clothes.

They all seem wholly consistent with a happy and healthy 3-year-old who is running around and enjoying herself in a brand new playground.

In addition, the shadows on the photograph are consistent with each other and with the likely time these photos were taken, namely late afternoon after the McCanns arrived at Faro Airport, had been driven to Praia da Luz, and shown to their apartment.

As Marian [then Jean, now 'Freedom' on candyfloss's forum] observed up the thread, these three photographs are also wholly consistent with the images of Madeleine from the 'airport bus' and 'climbing the aircraft steps' videos, taken the same day, both of which feature Madeleine and have been widely circulated.   

To respond specifically to Nina's post where she writes: "She also has two left feet, sorry, yes I know this has been said before. Sean looks to be  kneeling on Gerry 's left foot he is also leaning forward and She also has two left feet, sorry, yes I know this has been said before.Sean  looks to be  kneeling on Gerry 's left foot he is also leaning forward and with nothing in front of him but fresh air he is going to fall forward.

------

re: "She also has two left feet"

REPLY: I disagree. I do not see that at all

re: "Sean looks to be kneeling on Gerry's left foot"

REPLY: I simply see Sean kneeling on the grass, somewhere in front of Gerry's left foot

re: "[Sean] is also leaning forward and with nothing in front of him but fresh air he is going to fall forward".

REPLY: I fully agree with that. He is playing on the grass and in a second or two his hands will also be on the grass. Nothing remotely exceptional about that - he is an active two-year-old, and this is a photo of plenty of action taking place around Gerry.

I am afraid these claims of photoshopping of the three playground photos just take us away from the three things I think we should really be discussing about photos of Madeleine on this holiday, namely:

1. Whether, as PeterMac and others have suggested, with plenty of evidence brought to bear, that the 'Last Photo' was actually taken on the Sunday (29 April)

2. Whether the 'Tennis Balls Photo' is genuine, having regard e.g. to the fact that two different people claim to have taken it, and doubts about if and when any tennis session for the children took place, and

3. Given the doubts about the Tennis Balls photo and the evidence that the Last Photo was taken on the Sunday, why there is no rock solid photographic evidence of Madeleine on that holiday after Sunday lunch-time.

Here is a short article on the subject that I compiled for a Facebook group recently in response to a couple of people:

THE 7 (OR) 8 PHOTOS OF MADELEINE ON HOLIDAY IN PRAIA DA LUZ, 2007
         
This is a response to Martina McCosker, who said “I still find it baffling that there is not ONE photo of Madeleine on this holiday, apart from the dodgy ones”. That is incorrect. She added: “I think she was there, but for how long?”  That is a statement and question I fully agree with.

I suggest there are in fact SEVEN genuine photos of Madeleine on that holiday, and ONE possible forgery.

In summary. there are two videos of Madeleine on the journey to Portugal, four photos, one of them black-and-white, probably taken on the Saturday, the so-called ‘Last Photo’, which appears to have been taken on the second day of the holiday, and finally the so-called ‘Tennis Balls Photo’, which evidence suggest may be a forgery.

In more detail, we have:

1. A video showing Madeleine on the airport bus. Kate has her arms round the twins. Gerry sits moodily and unhappy in a corner. Madeleine swings her legs somewhere between the two of them: Saturday

2. A video showing Madeleine running across the airport tarmac and then up the aircraft steps: SATURDAY

3. Three colour photos of Madeleine in the Ocean Club playground, two by a Wendy House. She is dressed the same  way in all three photos. These appear to be pictures of a happy-go-lucky 3-year-old, excited on the first day of the holiday: SATURDAY

4. A grainy black-and-white image of a happy-looking Madeleine with the elder of the Paynes’ two children, extracted by a Hampshire police officer on Wednesday 9 May: I suggest this was also taken on the SATURDAY

5. The so-called ‘Last Photo’, with Madeleine at the pool, laughing at something. It is claimed by the McCanns that this photo was taken at 2.29pm on Thursday 3 May. Two international photographic experts have given their professional opinion that this is a genuine photo with no evidence at all of photshopping. However, careful analysis of this photo suggests that it may have been taken at about mid-day on the SUNDAY (I will expand on this if asked)

6. The ‘Tennis Balls Photo’. Certain features of this photo and contradictory statements about when it was taken suggest that it could be a cunning forgery.

I agree with that even with the above seven genuine photos, that is very few for a holiday that lasted nearly a week. But the much more significant issue raised by the above analysis is why there appear to be no photos of Madeleine after mid-day Sunday.
Victoria Cairns asked:  “Why no photos, no DNA?, no toothbrush?”. In the light f the above analysis, I would rephrase that question as follows: “Why no genuine photos of Madeleine after Sunday mid-day, no DNA?, no toothbrush”. 

++++++++++++++++++++++

Once again, respect to you both, skyrocket and Nina.

But I think you were taking us down entirely the wrong track 
I swore I wouldn't comment again and I got carried away and did.
OK Tony, this time, you win.

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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by Tony Bennett 05.09.15 22:34

missbeetle wrote:Your beachly explanation does make sense to me, Skyrocket...and Nina, I agree with your observations, too.
That's because it is your settled position, missbeetle, as you have recently stated here, that Madeleine never went to Praia da Luz at all.

Which means that you hold that ALL EIGHT purported photographic records of Madeleine in Praia da Luz (the ones I have just listed above) on that holiday, including two video clips, are some of the most cunning forgeries ever perpetrated.

Which means in turn that you either believe that all 17 alerts by the two cadaver dogs were false, OR that someone else died in Apartment 5A.

I've got that right, haven't I?

If anyone else comes along and says that Madeleine and Sean were once playing on a beach, but that the McCanns have photoshopped them from a beach photo onto an Ocean Club photo - AND that they faked the other two playground photos AND faked the two videos of Madeleine on her way to the airport, I shall conclude that this forum has begun the slow descent into insanity

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Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Verdi 05.09.15 23:20

skyrocket wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Just speed scanned through previous posts on this thread and don't think this has been suggested yet:

I think GM, Sean and Lily are on a beach, without MBM? (girl in pink).
My reasoning is that:
- if you look at Sean he is kneeling;
- he is looking down at the area infront of him - the girl in pink within a foot of his right hand, flailing her arms around and looking as if she has perhaps just jumped, is not drawing his attention at all;
- his hands look as if they could be on an upside down beach bucket (building a sand castle) - one hand on the side and one on the bottom;
-had Sean been falling forward on to both hands, for some reason, both hands would be palm down infront of him;
- GM's eye line/body position seems to be consistent with him bending to look at what Sean is doing, not looking at girl in pink;
-Lily is sitting observing and looking up at GM, again not looking at girl in pink.
-bald man (not Raj Balu IMO) is looking directly at the photographer (may or may not know each other) but nothing between photographer and playhouse IMO;
-woman to left, holding child, looking towards the camera/photographer (looking like she's wondering what the photographer is taking a photo of!).
I feel almost inclined to be rude but I'll resist the temptation, so trying to be polite, what are you implying by this extraordinary observation based on nothing obvious - at least nothing that I can determine.  It's just an ordinary photograph of ordinary people in an ordinary playground, I really think you're going off on a trip of fantasy here. 

Apart from the total lack of evidence to support this theory, you haven't elaborated as to why you think someone would go to such lengths to fabricate a scene that may or may not have taken place on a beach and placed it in a playground instead.  What in your opinion would be the purpose of moving their location from beach to playground?  The kids aren't even dressed for the beach!  Sorry you've totally lost me on this one.


I'm more interested to learn why there is an absence of family snapshots on a family holiday - especially with kids on board - and why the few photographs taken inside apartment 5a show no signs of the chaos one would expect with children about.  Most people take loads of photos when on holiday - more so in this age of digital photography, why not the McCann family?

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Post by skyrocket 05.09.15 23:38

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - that's put a smile on my face and settled one thing in my mind at least . You're being aggressive again!!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - thank you! Glad someone read the comment on 'Madeleine Was Here' - I found the whole Madeleine look-a-like quite disturbing.

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - don't give up and I'm actually glad I'm not the only one getting flack!

@ Tony Bennett - so much I could say in response but I will bite my tongue!

We are now on page 18 of a thread which is specifically related to the 'playground picture' and Nina and myself are just at the end of a long line of contributors who have been discussing (mainly) this photo. Many others have been commenting on the oddities of this shot. Just out of interest, why is their an issue now? When I commented, I wasn't heading down any particular track myself, never mind intending to lead anyone else - I don't believe there are any sheep on here are there?

I appreciate that their are strong views relating to a lot of the issues and I am genuinely respectful of all the work that has been put in by established, long term members (thank you Verdi for pointing this out last time). I can tell that contradicting opinions cause irritation but there has to be room for debate or the whole concept of a forum is surely lost - might as well close all the threads to us plebs if you don't want discussion and differences of opinion!

I'm sorry TB, but I have to disagree with you that this picture looks natural. I do not know when the playground photos were taken; I do not know if they have been photoshopped. I don't believe that you can say definitely that they haven't. I don't think any of us can be 100% certain about any of the photos being genuine or otherwise, can we? I think a number of photos both before and during the holiday are dodgy. But, it is all theorising on the best information available.

What I would point out as a fact is that MBM is not wearing the same trousers in the airport photos/video as she is in the playground photos.

Lastly, accusing missbeetle of having a settled opinion (closed in other words) is rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black if you wont consider any new comments made!

I'm still here and I'm still smiling. smilie
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Post by tigger 06.09.15 11:04

It is my opinion only that: 

The girl in pink in the playground and the Wendy house, with her relaxed happy smile and her hair exactly right as it is growing out the blond from summer, now in April top half is darker - is NOT Maddie McCann. 

In my opinion also; 
Maddie wore a wig in many photographs, I can't post photos  here (tried everything!) but will do a blog post on it one day. 

What I also find strange in the playground  photograph is the perspective of the woman seen under the roof of the roundhouse in the distance. She seems far too small for the distance, can't explain it better. She can be seen through one of the holes of the playhouse. But I may well be wrong there. Mind you, remove the pink girl and things could look more normal. 

As others here have remarked: the non-participation of those present in the photos is frequently a give-away of photoshopping. 
If the girl in pink would stand up she'd be far too tall. Imo there's something very wrong with this photograph - was it included on the DVDs given to the PJ on the 9th?

But isn't it more likely that the pink girl has been inserted? Print it off, use a compass to bring her knee perpendicular, then the thighs etc, she'd surely come up to halfway Gerry's chest?  In any case - that combined pose means that Gerry is in great danger of getting his nose broken - an experience not uncommon to some Glaswegians I understand.

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Post by Nina 06.09.15 11:16

tigger wrote:It is my opinion only that: 

The girl in pink in the playground and the Wendy house, with her relaxed happy smile and her hair exactly right as it is growing out the blond from summer, now in April top half is darker - is NOT Maddie McCann. 

In my opinion also; 
Maddie wore a wig in many photographs, I can't post photos  here (tried everything!) but will do a blog post on it one day. 

What I also find strange in the playground  photograph is the perspective of the woman seen under the roof of the roundhouse in the distance. She seems far too small for the distance, can't explain it better. She can be seen through one of the holes of the playhouse. But I may well be wrong there. Mind you, remove the pink girl and things could look more normal. 

As others here have remarked: the non-participation of those present in the photos is frequently a give-away of photoshopping. 
If the girl in pink would stand up she'd be far too tall. Imo there's something very wrong with this photograph - was it included on the DVDs given to the PJ on the 9th?

But isn't it more likely that the pink girl has been inserted? Print it off, use a compass to bring her knee perpendicular, then the thighs etc, she'd surely come up to halfway Gerry's chest?  In any case - that combined pose means that Gerry is in great danger of getting his nose broken - an experience not uncommon to some Glaswegians I understand.
Your opinion Tigger and I agree with it.
Your point about the height of the bent over girl in pink is  worthy of scrutiny compared to Gerry and the other children in the picture.

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Post by tinkier 06.09.15 12:05

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
What I also find strange in the playground  photograph is the perspective of the woman seen under the roof of the roundhouse in the distance. She seems far too small for the distance, can't explain it better. She can be seen through one of the holes of the playhouse. But I may well be wrong there. Mind you, remove the pink girl and things could look more normal. 


Yes I also found that very strange. Why is there a reflection of what looks like a lady with shoulder length black hair wearing dark sunglasses, holding what looks like a lilac balloon? Also if Madeleine has just jumped, where is her right arm, there is not one little bit of it on show.It could be straight,  by her side, but surely wouldn't be there from a jumping position, without even a little bit showing! If you look at her left hand, the fingers are strange? All just my opinion and observations though!


eta….Madeleine looks like she could be invisible as no one is taking any notice of her!
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Post by ROSA 06.09.15 12:59

It looks very windy the sky is heavily cloudy and overcast might of rained this day ?
The photo has that its getting cold feel about it and the people are wearing mostly warm clothes
Madeleine was days away from turning 4 years old ,  some kids are quite big at this age note the tennis photo girl she is quite big.
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Post by Guest 06.09.15 13:04

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - MBM would have appeared to shrink for the last photo, then?

Re: tennis photo - I don't believe it.
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Post by Verdi 06.09.15 13:16

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] said  "that's put a smile on my face and settled one thing in my mind at least . You're being aggressive again!! "

Aggressive again - hmmm interesting observation !?!

Still, whilst I ponder your unusual sense of humour, perhaps you would be so kind as to give some indication as to why you think someone would go to such lengths to fabricate a scene that may or may not have taken place on a beach and placed it in a playground instead.  What in your opinion would be the purpose of moving their location from beach to playground?  A reply is not obligatory I know but nonetheless I would consider it an act of courtesy if you could justify your reasoning.

As regard your comment in reply to Tony Bennett, I think this requires clarification before it takes on a life of it's own.  Firstly, our previous exchange was an isolated incident relating to the interpretation of a specific McCann interview televised by the German media, where I mentioned the diligence of native Spanish/Portuguese speakers who have worked tirelessly in quest of the truth.  Whilst I appreciate your right to express your opinion, it helps if you can provide a reason to bolster your theories.  I could come up with some highfaluting theory that a middle eastern Sheik stole MBM for slave labour but I would look extremely foolish if asked to provide evidence to justify the theory - if get my drift.

I genuinely don't believe anyone on this forum objects to alternative thinking providing there is subtantiated rationale to give it some credence.  If you take offense every time someone disagrees with you then an open discussion forum is perhaps not the place to be!  Neither should you think you are unwanted purely because another member counters your opinion, surely that is the whole purpose of a 'discussion' group?

As I see this subject is going nowhere I'll butt out and leave you to it.

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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by ROSA 06.09.15 13:22

Ladyinred wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] - MBM would have appeared to shrink for the last photo, then?

Re: tennis photo - I don't believe it.
This playground girl has long legs and a short back if you sat her down like the last photo girl who seemed like she was hunching her back they might be the same size?  The last photo does not show her leg length so its hard to compere

____________________
For Paulo Sargento, the thesis that Gonçalo Amaral revealed at first hand to "SP" that the blanket could have been used in a funeral ceremony at the Luz chapel "is very interesting".
 
And he adds: "In reality, when the McCanns went to Oprah's Show, the blanket was mentioned. At a given moment, when Oprah tells Kate that she heard her mention a blanket several times, Kate argued that a mother who misses a child always wants to know if she is comfortable, if she is warm, and added, referring to Maddie, that sometimes she asked herself if the person who had taken her would cover her up with her little blanket (but the blanket was on the bed after Maddie, supposedly, disappeared!!!).
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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by Tony Bennett 06.09.15 15:32

tigger wrote:It is my opinion only that: 

The girl in pink in the playground and the Wendy house, with her relaxed happy smile and her hair exactly right as it is growing out the blond from summer, now in April top half is darker - is NOT Maddie McCann. 

REPLY: Opinions are all very well, but they need to be based on evidence of some kind. What your post lacks, tigger, with due respect, is almost any actual evidence - and what evidence there is contradicts your claims.

In my opinion also; 
Maddie wore a wig in many photographs, I can't post photos here (tried everything!) but will do a blog post on it one day.

REPLY: No evidence of this supplied - but, OK, we'll wait until your blog post provides some evidence for this. 

What I also find strange in the playground photograph is the perspective of the woman seen under the roof of the roundhouse in the distance. She seems far too small for the distance, can't explain it better. She can be seen through one of the holes of the playhouse. But I may well be wrong there. Mind you, remove the pink girl and things could look more normal. 

REPLY: We don't know where the woman is sitting so, yes, as you concede, you may well be wrong - and the perspective of her may be be absolutely right.

As others here have remarked: the non-participation of those present in the photos is frequently a give-away of photoshopping. 
If the girl in pink would stand up she'd be far too tall.

REPLY: Your statement is clearly incorrect. If the girl - Madeleine as I'm sure it is - stood up, her head would be up to about Gerry's waist (if he himself also stood up. Gerry is about 5' 10" I think (175cm).  Madeleine would be about 3' to 3' 3" tall (95-100cm). And that would make the top of her head about Gerry's waistline , or maybe just above - no problem there. 

Imo there's something very wrong with this photograph - was it included on the DVDs given to the PJ on the 9th?

REPLY: To make statements like this, you would need to produce credible evidence, which I've not seen from the posts by yourself, Nina, missbeetle and tinkler.

So now let's review the POSITIVE evidence that this photo is NOT a fake/photoshopped in any way:

1. Madeleine's shadow. It fits perfectly with the shadow on Gerry, and with all the other shadows on the photograph.

2. It would be very hard to fake such a shadow on a photograph such as this.

3. The setting for the photograph is exactly in accordance with what we know about the events of that day - arrival on a sunny day in the early/mid-afternoon, quickly go to the apartment, then run down to the playground and let the kids let off steam.

4. The child of another member of the Tapas 7 is in the foreground - is it claimed that this image is also photoshopped?

5. If you say this is photoshopped, what do you say about the other two playground pictures of Madeleine by the Wendy House? Not Madeleine? Photoshopped. Faked?

6. If you say this is not Madeleine on this holiday, what about the airport bus vidoeo? Was that Madeleine? If yes, was that Madeleine on that holiday, or another?

7. If you say this is not Madeleine on this holiday, what about the 'climbing-the-steps-of-the-plane' video? Was that Madeleine? If yes, was Madeleine on that holiday, or another?

8. If this was NOT Madeleine, how do you account for the 17 alerts of the dogs?

9. If this was NOT Madeleine, how to you account for her name being on the passenger manifest for 28 April?

Opinions are fine - but need evidence to support them.

But isn't it more likely that the pink girl has been inserted? Print it off, use a compass to bring her knee perpendicular, then the thighs etc, she'd surely come up to halfway Gerry's chest?  

REPLY: NO. See above. And remember she is standing nearer the camera than Gerry.

In any case - that combined pose means that Gerry is in great danger of getting his nose broken - an experience not uncommon to some Glaswegians I understand.

REPLY: Once again, I respectfully suggest that this endless discussion about a photograph with no obvious photoshopping having been done on it distracts us from the two photos that really do demand our attention:

1. The date and time of the apparently genuine 'Last Photo', and

2. The many questions, as Ladyinred has just reminded us, about the so-called 'Tennis Balls Photo'.

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by Richard IV 06.09.15 15:59

I [believe] the playground pic was taken on arrival day, both Maddie, and likely Lily as well, have changed their trousers since they were on the airport bus IMO. Maddie' bus trousers were 3/4 length yet playground trousers are full length (almost far too big).  Lily has navy trousers on the bus (or could be a skirt as the bottom of her leg is apparent), yet in the playground she does not appear to have dark bottoms, though it is difficult to see but I'd imagine an outline of dark trousers would have been visible if she still had them on. IMO.


One word added for clarity - Mod
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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by whodunit 06.09.15 17:54

If you look at Sean's left hand the fingers look 'molded', for lack of a better word, into an oval shape as if he's resting his hand on something curved or malleable like sand/a mound of sand. But there is nothing but air so this 'shape' should be impossible.


EDIT: This phenomenon is much clearer in the full shot posted by Skyrocket. The watermark almost but not quite obscures it:

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by skyrocket 06.09.15 18:03

@ Whodunnit - I agree! laughat

Was just testing to see if it uploaded. Tried again and my post seems to be too long so I suspect it's something to do with an image I tried to attach. Will keep at it!
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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by skyrocket 06.09.15 18:10

@ Nina @ Tigger @ Tinkier - all have 'alternative thinking' it appears (makes us all sound quite fringe!).

Verdi - not taking offence, honestly (told you, you made me smile)! Perhaps that is our problem - different senses of humour and interpretation of what ' discussion' entails! I had actually come to the conclusion that you were the one who seemed to take offence easily!!



In reply to your question regarding beach to playground. I have no idea. Perhaps someone can come up with an answer to that. Isn't that the point of an open forum - collecting snippets/suggestions/thoughts from the group as a whole? Every now and then the group may hit gold and come up with a viable explanation for something. I can assure you that I have never posted without due consideration of the points I make. Can't remember exactly what I said to Tony - I'm sure I stand by it though (I will check back when I've posted this).

@ Tony Bennett

REPLY: Your statement is clearly incorrect. If the girl - Madeleine as I'm sure it is - stood up, her head would be up to about Gerry's waist (if he himself also stood up. Gerry is about 5' 10" I think (175cm). Madeleine would be about 3' to 3' 3" tall (95-100cm). And that would make the top of her head about Gerry's waistline , or maybe just above - no problem there.

Tony - do you know if someone has looked at this point before and worked it out? Would be interesting to know.



I will post the rest - including the problem photo as soon as possible!
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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by Tony Bennett 06.09.15 18:21

whodunit wrote:If you look at Sean's left hand the fingers look 'molded', for lack of a better word, into an oval shape as if he's resting his hand on something curved or malleable like sand/a mound of sand. But there is nothing but air so this 'shape' should be impossible.


EDIT: This phenomenon is much clearer in the full shot posted by Skyrocket. The watermark almost but not quite obscures it:
@ whodunit

The most important things to notice about Sean in this photograph are the following:

1. The image is fully consistent with everything else going on in the picture - people playing outside on the grass. Sean's knees rest comfortably on the grass, there is absolutely no sign of photoshopping there. It looks like he is in the process of moving forwards. It is a snapshot which captures people who are active

2. Look at Sean's shadow - of his two arms, that is. It is fully consistent with the angle of the sun at that time of day

3. It would be almost impossible to fake Sean's shadow

4. Look at the shadows of Madeleine and of Gerry McCann and of Sean. All are fully consistent, showing that all three were photographed together at the same time. This was exactly the observation made by the two photographic experts consulted by PeterMac over the Last Photo - they said that the consistency of the shadows, which is almost impossible to fake, demonstrated that this was also a genuine photograph.

Let us please not waste more time discussing exactly what is on Sean's hands. It might be some dirt or soil or something. It could be a slight corruption which comes with the reproduction of digital data.

If we are going to go any further down the road of suggesting any or all of the playground photos are photoshopped, could those who assert that it is please provide a decent answer to the nine positive points I posted earlier which suggest that none of these three photos have been photoshopped.
Thanks!

@ skyrocket     

Yes, there is a glitch of some kind with forumotion which has been going on for months now - which simply removes your post if you add an image which is too large in terms of MB/KB used. It tells you your post is too long but doesn't save it - most annoying. If, however, I save any images to 'My Pictures' as a jpg. file or png. file, it seems to like those, So try that.

____________________

Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by Tony Bennett 06.09.15 18:23

skyrocket wrote:@ Nina @ Tigger @ Tinkier - all have 'alternative thinking' it appears...
I think 'unevidenced thinking' would be a far more accurate way of putting it

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Playground Photo - Page 8 Empty Re: Playground Photo

Post by Nina 06.09.15 19:12

Tony Bennett wrote:
skyrocket wrote:@ Nina @ Tigger @ Tinkier - all have 'alternative thinking' it appears...
I think 'unevidenced thinking' would be a far more accurate way of putting it
Tony, my evidence is what I see with my own eyes when I look at that photograph.

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