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Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 05.09.11 12:58

Stephen Carpenter arrives at the Tapas Bar at 7.00 pm.

He saw Philip Edmonds already sitting there with his 3 children and he mentions that he was flying to Switzerland the next day to return his children to their Mother (obviously they are seperated).

Edmonds joins Carpenter for coffee (presumably after their meal).

At 8.30 Gerry, Kate and the others are seated at their table.

Carpenter’s table is so close to the McCann table, it was possible for both tables to converse (presumably Edmond's is still there at this point).

Carpenter’s wife remembers someone calling “Madeleine, Madeleine”, on the way back to their apartment.

I wonder what time Edmonds left the table?
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by greenwatch on 05.09.11 13:00

TONY BENNET said

\\"Here is a photograph I took of my boys with Madeleine in the background at ___am/pm on Thursday 3 May\\"?

It would have been much nicer if you had posted the above in the first place. It is the fact that in your role play you dramatically change the entire picture to suit your own agenda and this is what disgusts mosts right-thinking people.

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The McCanns have the photo. So does Edmonds. Why has it never been produced?

Post by Tony Bennett on 05.09.11 13:03

@greenwatch wrote:
Stella wrote:As previously mentioned, the children were of different ages, so how could they have been in the same place at the same time?
DO YOU LIVE ON THE MOON, STELLA? WHY DON'T you ask Mark Warner why they allow residents and NON-residents to wander through the communal grounds which are very pleasant and attract people from other villas/apartments/hotels (A PRACTICE IN COMMON WITH ALL THE OTHER RESORTS)



LOOKIE ABOVE, horror, a couple wandering thru the playground and they are not 'playing' with Madeleine.

Again, you miss the key point and once again have been far too aggressive in your remarks; there will be no third warning about your failure to treat fellow forum-members with respect.

Clearly Stella is right to point out that the Edmonds' boys were 'in the same place' as Madeleine when the photo was taken. In the pool area, for example, or in a restaurant area.

For Madeleine to be recognisable in this photo, she can't have been far from the three boys.

But as Stella suggests, where were they all?

We are told by a Stemcor Board member - Edmonds - that he has this photograph showing Madeleine alive on 3 May. The 'last photo' purports to prove that Madeleine was alive at 2.29pm on 3 May, although there are many question marks about the provenance of that photo.

Why doesn't Edmonds produce the photo? - his boys' faces can be blacked out.

Why don't the McCanns produce this photo?

In fact, instead of asking silly questions of me and Stella, why don't you go to the McCanns/Philip Edmonds and ask them to produce the photo?
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 05.09.11 13:05

@greenwatch wrote:
Stella wrote:As previously mentioned, the children were of different ages, so how could they have been in the same place at the same time?
DO YOU LIVE ON THE MOON, STELLA? WHY DON'T you ask Mark Warner why they allow residents and NON-residents to wander through the communal grounds which are very pleasant and attract people from other villas/apartments/hotels

I think you are deliberately missing the point greenwatch.

Mr Edmonds claims to have taken photo's of his boys with Madeleine in the background. A man with 3 boys age 6, 7 and 8, would not be in the play area for toddlers.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Newintown on 05.09.11 13:10

Stella wrote:
@greenwatch wrote:
Stella wrote:As previously mentioned, the children were of different ages, so how could they have been in the same place at the same time?
DO YOU LIVE ON THE MOON, STELLA? WHY DON'T you ask Mark Warner why they allow residents and NON-residents to wander through the communal grounds which are very pleasant and attract people from other villas/apartments/hotels

I think you are deliberately missing the point greenwatch.

Mr Edmonds claims to have taken photo's of his boys with Madeleine in the background. A man with 3 boys age 6, 7 and 8, would not be in the play area for toddlers.



Greenwatch is deliberately missing the point. No doubt she is one of the paid McCann's keyboard monkeys or is a McCann / friend/ relative, trying to cover the McCanns' backs at every opportunity she has, but is making a very poor job of it.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 05.09.11 13:28

It looks like Greenwatch has left the building.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 05.09.11 13:33

Does anyone remember who it was, who allegedly called someone in the Government as soon as the alarm was raised? Was that David Payne?

Is it possible that Margaret Hodge could have given David Payne the right number to call for help? Or else, how we he have got that number?
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by lj on 05.09.11 13:50

I hope the McCanns are not paying her, absolutely no qualities, not even for a keyboard monkey.


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Ah say Boy... That dog's as subtle as a hand grenade in a barrel of oat meal

Post by The Rooster on 05.09.11 14:42

"Therefore, I can confirm that whatever information I had (including some photos of my sons taken on the day Madeleine disappeared, which showed her in the background) was passed both to the police and to the McCann’s at the time.”

I find the above sentence particularly interesting both believable and at the same time unbelievable. The writer in an attempt to discourage further conspiracy theory and to ligitimise his position tells Mr Bennett that he passed (presumably) relevant information held to the police (this I can believe) and to the McCann’s at the time (this I find unbelievable).

Why pass this information to the McCann’s and why the need to explain the information in such detail to Mr Bennett. What is his motivation for doing so, particularly as he clearly points out that he and Mr Bennett are not known to one another? If I were Mr Edmonds replying to Mr Bennett’s letter I would write the sentence as follows…

"Therefore, I can confirm that whatever information I had was passed to the police at the time.”

And be done with the detail. Too much information, why? Or is it so transparent...

Ah say Boy just like the hand grenade in the barrel of oatmeal!
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 05.09.11 15:32

I don't see how he could have passed it onto the Police, as he allegedly left the following morning, before the McCann's had even given their statements.

Alarm bells should have been ringing from the moment GNR first arrived. They must have asked reception, is there any suspicious activity that we need to know about, either people checking in or checking out?? One of them should have said, yes we have a guest who was due to leave on the 5th and he arranged today(on the 3rd) to leave on the 4th !!!

There could have been a very genuine reason for this, nothing suspicious whatsoever, but if they never asked these questions, how would they know?

Perhaps he didn't officially check out, which is why he is still on the internal report on the 5th and why they didn't think to speak to him.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 05.09.11 15:44

I've just had a thought. If it is proven one day that Madeleine had died on the night of the 28th, where does this leave Mr Edmonds and his comment about Madeleine being in the background of his photographs?

Perhaps Mr Edmonds has been duped by the others into believing that this little girl was Madeleine McCann, simply because her name was almost identical to Madeleine?

I wonder if Scotland Yard know about these photographs?
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Tony Bennett on 05.09.11 16:04

Stella wrote:I've just had a thought. If it is proven one day that Madeleine had died on the night of the 28th, where does this leave Mr Edmonds and his comment about Madeleine being in the background of his photographs?

Perhaps Mr Edmonds has been duped by the others into believing that this little girl was Madeleine McCann, simply because her name was almost identical to Madeleine?

I wonder if Scotland Yard know about these photographs?
Scotland Yard should be told. I have Edmonds' address.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by aiyoyo on 05.09.11 17:07

Having been in Portugal at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance and seen all
of the events first hand, there is not one shred of doubt in my mind
that the events as reported were correct.


Yours sincerely,
Philip Edmonds

I find that part of his statement (as above) particularly intriguing.


Has anyone else wondered what he meant by "seen all of the events first hand...?" Did he mean he was with the group at the Tapas when the alarm was raised or did he mean he was part of the search group or he was there throughout? Is he confirming McCanns and friends' lies as correct?

Then what about the bit where he stated "there is not one shred of doubt in my mind that the events as reported were correct." Either he's blindly defending the mccanns because he's part of their social circle, or he's implicating himself in it.


In fact one of the most terrible parts of this tragedy is that there are
people out there who are questioning this, just adding further to the
nightmare that the McCann family have suffered. I cannot imagine
anything crueller.

This bit seems to me he's been in close touch with Team McCann and heard of MF hence the jib.

When a case is unsolved there is always going to be people questioning McCanns' events so why did he have to state the obvious, unless he's having a dig at TB, in which case, it would indicative he's been informed about MF and internet critics of the McCanns' fake abduction.

It's almost as if he's trying to provide an alibi for McCanns for May 3rd which probably only goes to reinforce the story Maddie met her fate earlier than that date. I mean if he'd forwarded the pic to the Police surely he would become special 'person of interest' to the Police in that the Police would want to interview him as a witness.

AFAIK, he wasn't interviewed. It would make his pic last one of Maddie taken by an independent person and that would have been the focus and the McCanns didn't have to invent the May 3rd convo with Maddie.

I am also surprised someone of his wealth would chose such middle of the road type resort for his holiday.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 06.09.11 0:04

@Tony Bennett wrote:In fact one of the most terrible parts of this tragedy is that there are people out there who are questioning this, just adding further to the nightmare that the McCann family have suffered. I cannot imagine anything crueller.

The nightmare and cruelty what we live through having witnessed the actions and non actions of the McCann's.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by happychick on 06.09.11 6:51

Molly wrote:
@Tony Bennett wrote:In fact one of the most terrible parts of this tragedy is that there are people out there who are questioning this, just adding further to the nightmare that the McCann family have suffered. I cannot imagine anything crueller.

The nightmare and cruelty what we live through having witnessed the actions and non actions of the McCann's.

Is this guy serious? tearhairout

Could leaving 3 children, under 4 years of age, alone in an unlocked apartment be crueller? Imagine the cruelty of one of those vulnerable children being 'abducted' or getting up and dying alone behind the sofa just because mommy and daddy dearest wanted to go out and get pissed.

Oh yes, I certainly can imagine a lot of things that are more cruel than someone questioning the McCanns!! They have lied and cheated the public and not co-operated with the investigation and of course they SHOULD be questioned !!

angry2
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 06.09.11 9:03

@aiyoyo wrote:
Having been in Portugal at the time of Madeleine’s disappearance and seen all
of the events first hand, there is not one shred of doubt in my mind
that the events as reported were correct.


Yours sincerely,
Philip Edmonds

I find that part of his statement (as above) particularly intriguing.


Has anyone else wondered what he meant by "seen all of the events first hand...?"
Yes aiyoyo, that one comment opens up a myriad of questions that need answering.

There is a part of me that thinks he did not write that email. I get the impression that the person who did was a woman, quite possibly a PA, or someone in their legal department. The counter balancing of lack of information over conspiracy, leads me to believe this. Along with the cannot think of anything worse bit.

Where have all the disciples gone, committed to providing innocent explantions for everything?
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 06.09.11 10:19

The Universal Child Database was set up in 2004, as part of the Children Act 2004. It cost £224m to set up and £41m a year to run and was backed by Margaret Hodge.

It has been heavily criticised by a wide range of groups, mainly for privacy, security and child protection reasons.

What was the point of the database?

The Labour Government said the database was set up to improve child protection by improving the way information about children was shared between services. Information that would be available to approx. 330,000 different people.

Only professionals whose job involves supporting children would be able to access the database, and they would be required to undergo enhanced Criminal Records Bureau checks and training.

The database would hold information on about 11 million children in England. Records would be kept until six years after the child turns 18, or if they leave England and Wales with no intention of returning. The database could also apply to 18–25-year-olds who were care leavers or had learning disabilities (although the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child only applies to those under 18 in England and Wales), and their permission was needed.

In May 2010, the new Coalition Government switched it off. From that date onwards, the Children Act 2004 Information Database (England) Regulations 2007, as amended in 2010, is no longer applicable.

Could this have been the brain child of a Government who was trying to pave the way for Masonichip?
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 06.09.11 10:45

Philip Edmonds was staying in room DP03.

I am led to believe that DP stands for Date Palm. Having checked all of the guest records, I can only see 3 seperate reservations, using 2 different rooms.

Date Palm

28/04-05/05 DP01 Burlton

05/05-12/05 DP01 Neil Berry

29/04-05/05 DP03 Philip Edmonds

What I think is quite interesting, is that the Date Palm block must be one of the nicest blocks in OC to have housed Mr Edmonds in the first place. So why did Neil Berry move to the Date Palm block after the alarm was raised? Was it at the request of the PJ, MW or someone else? Why did he not stay in his original apartment G606 for his extended week, the block adjacent to the McCann's? No one moved into G606 after he left, so who paid for this upgrade and why?
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 06.09.11 13:13

@Tony Bennett wrote:Mr Edwards has a fascinating family history. Born on 31 August 1962 according to his entry on Geni.Com, he married Reina Hazenberg and they have three boys, all of whom were out with Philip in Praia da Luz for the week the McCanns were there. But not his wife Reina, so it seems. We also know from the Portuguese Police files that he mysteriously jetted off to Switzerland, where he lives, early on Friday morning (4 May 2011), apparnetly cutting short his holiday just as news was surfacing that a child had been abducted from Praia da Luz.
I'm not so sure he does live in Switzerland, based on something Stephen Carpenter said;

"He was going to take a plane the next day to Switzerland, given that the children's mother lived there"

Which is an odd thing to say really, if Philip also lives there. Surely he would have just said we are all going home to Switzerland, or something along those lines.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 06.09.11 13:35

@Tony Bennett wrote:
Stella wrote:I've just had a thought. If it is proven one day that Madeleine had died on the night of the 28th, where does this leave Mr Edmonds and his comment about Madeleine being in the background of his photographs?

Perhaps Mr Edmonds has been duped by the others into believing that this little girl was Madeleine McCann, simply because her name was almost identical to Madeleine?

I wonder if Scotland Yard know about these photographs?
Scotland Yard should be told. I have Edmonds' address.
Tony, would it be possible for you write to Scotland Yard about this please. I think it would be more appropriate coming from you, seeing as his communication was originally addressed to you.

I hope they follow this lead up and ask him why he left early..
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Guest on 06.09.11 16:41

Would I be right in thinking that Stemcor Special Steels are the main providers for nuclear submarines? as such anyone or anything connected to this would be classified as top secret and qualify for a DA notice?

http://www.stemcorspecialsteels.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=52&Itemid=60
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the secret of their success

Post by tigger on 06.09.11 19:41

Stella wrote:The Universal Child Database was set up in 2004, as part of the Children Act 2004. It cost £224m to set up and £41m a year to run and was backed by Margaret Hodge.

It has been heavily criticised by a wide range of groups, mainly for privacy, security and child protection reasons.

What was the point of the database?

The Labour Government said the database was set up to improve child protection by improving the way information about children was shared between services. Information that would be available to approx. 330,000 different people.

Only professionals whose job involves supporting children would be able to access the database, and they would be required to undergo enhanced Criminal Records Bureau checks and training.

The database would hold information on about 11 million children in England. Records would be kept until six years after the child turns 18, or if they leave England and Wales with no intention of returning. The database could also apply to 18–25-year-olds who were care leavers or had learning disabilities (although the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child only applies to those under 18 in England and Wales), and their permission was needed.

In May 2010, the new Coalition Government switched it off. From that date onwards, the Children Act 2004 Information Database (England) Regulations 2007, as amended in 2010, is no longer applicable.

Could this have been the brain child of a Government who was trying to pave the way for Masonichip?

Masonichip? First time I heard that term. But certainly, part of the McCann's success was that they pressed a lot of buttons with institutions who could be making a lot of money out of this. Not to mention the Big Brother aspect for the Government.
The microchipping of all infants is still a pet project amongst many, I understand. I'm sure it will happen one day.
I wonder whether Mr. E. had interests that way?
His behaviour and the letter to explain it, is very questionable. Like the McCanns, these explanations reveal more than he intends.
All these things were on the table pretty soon after the 3rd. Ceops, microchips, Amber alert.
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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Daisy on 06.09.11 21:20

Masonichip (not to be confused with the microchip) is a Child
Identification Program run as a public charity and heavily promoted
through public events run by Freemasons mainly in North America &
Canada.

Sounds very creepy and Orwellian to me. No doubt this is yet another
tip-toe approach to soften up/condition the public into eventually
accepting the implantable microchip. http://www.masonichip.org/index.php/about-us/what-is-masonichip.html

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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by PeterMac on 06.09.11 21:57

What bizarre thing to read.
Apart from the illiteracy of the web site -
"When it is needed it must be readily available. It is true that Parents who bring the packs with them are constantly reminded and less likely to loose site of their children. This prevention aspect is the greatest benefit that every participant receives by going through a Masonichip Event. With todays privacy laws we may never know when one of our completed ID packs are used...but we do know that every praticipant who spends a half hour waiting in line, another half hour progressing through the Event stations, who takes it home and with them on vacation is better prepared to avoid abduction and exploitation situations."
... it is yet another example of tagging goods so that they can be recovered AFTER the crime has been committed.
In this case you take your child's DNA and stuff with you, in the full expectation that the child will be abducted, and then you can hand it all over to the police, so that they can identify your child's body amongst all the other ones they have lying around but unidentified ...?
Is this real ?

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Re: Would this account for the unprecedented high level of political support?

Post by Tony Bennett on 06.09.11 22:08

Stella wrote:I'm not so sure [Philip Edmonds] does live in Switzerland, based on something Stephen Carpenter said;

"He was going to take a plane the next day to Switzerland, given that the children's mother lived there"

Which is an odd thing to say really, if Philip also lives there. Surely he would have just said we are all going home to Switzerland, or something along those lines.

On a plain reading of Carpenter's statement, Edmonds had to go back to Switzerland because his children and their mother [his wife] live in Switzerland. The main inference to be drawn is that Edmonds and his wife are separated, or divorced, and that Edmonds had the children for a week's holiday as an 'access' visit to keep in touch with his children, who no longer live with him becaue he and his wife live apart.

That might suggest that Edmonds no longer lives in Switzerland. The information about him on the Stemcor website suggests that he might live either in Switzerland or England. I wrote to him about both addresses.

By the way, having reproduced Edmonds' letter, here is the one I sent him:


From: Anthony Bennett MA

66 Chippingfield
Essex
CM17 0DJ

Tel: 01279 635789
Mobile: 07835 716537



22 July 2011


Mr Philip Edmonds, BA Friday 22 July 2011
Deputy Chairman
Stemcor Holdings Ltd.


Dear Mr Edmonds,

re: Madeleine McCann

I have been researching the Madeleine McCann case in depth since September 2007, from the point of view of someone who is sceptical about the parents’ account of events.

I have obtained your name and details simply by examining many of the thousands of documents about the case released by the Portuguese Police and made public during 2008, which include lists of guests staying at the Ocean Club and/or with Mark Warners during the week the McCanns were there, 28 April to 5 May 2007. There is also amongst the documents released by the police a statement by a Stephen Carpenter, who now lives in Stevenage, who says that he spoke to a man who had taken three young boys with him on the evening Madeleine disappeared, and by a process of elimination we believe that must be you, as you are the only guest with three boys recorded as being present that week.

One matter I have looked at especially, and have written about, is the controversial nature of many of the reported ‘sightings’ of Madeleine McCann on Thursday 3 May, the day she was reported missing. One of many curious features about the case is that only two photographs of Madeleine at Praia da Luz that week have ever surfaced. One was a photo of her playing tennis sometime earlier in the week, apparently taken by another parent. The other is the famous ‘last photo’ taken by Dr Kate McCann, one that was not produced for the public to see until after Dr Gerald McCann returned to England for a short visit in late May.

I have posted analyses on publicly-viewable forums querying the eight claimed 'sightings' of Madeleine on 3 May 2007. Clearly any photos of Madeleine alive on that day (or indeed on any other days of the week) would serve to dispel the doubts myself and others have entertained about the events of 3 May.

I am wondering therefore if you would kindly be able to tell me whether you or any member of your family had any contact with the McCanns and their children on Thursday 3 May, and also whether you have any photographs of Madeleine taken on that specific day.

I understand from the released files that you were living in Switzerland at the time Madeleine was reported missing but you may now be living in the U.K., hence I have sent this letter to Stemcor/Uldy Street SA both in Switzerland and in London.

I hope you may be able to help and look forward to hearing from you.

My contact details are above.

Yours sincerely,



Anthony Bennett
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McCanns apt & hire car


Blood and cadaver alerts
dismissed by UK Government


Retired DCI Gonçalo Amaral: "The English can always present the conclusions to which they themselves arrived in 2007. Because they know, they have the evidence of what happened - they don't need to investigate anything. All this is now a mere 'show off'."

Retired murder DCI Colin Sutton: "I would also like to make the point that Operation Grange was so restricted from the start as to be destined to fail."

Assistant Commissioner Mark Rowley made public on national TV that Operation Grange is a complete fraud.

Ex-DCI Andy Redwood had a "revelation moment" on BBC's Crimewatch on 14th October 2013 when he announced that Operation Grange had eliminated the Tanner sighting - which opened up the 'window of opportunity', in accordance with their remit, to allow the fake abduction to happen.

Despite "irrelevant behaviour" from blood and cadaver dogs in the McCann's apartment, on Kate McCann's clothes, and in the car they hired three weeks after Maddie disappeared, Ex-Chief Inspector, Ian Horrocks, said: "The thought that Kate and Gerry McCann had anything to do with the death of their daughter is frankly preposterous."

Gerry McCann called for example to be made of 'trolls'. SKY News reporter Martin Brunt doorstepped Brenda Leyland on 2 October 2014. She was then found dead in a Leicester hotel room. Brenda paid the price. She paid with her life.

Ex-Deputy Chief Constable, Jim Gamble QPM, congratulated SKY reporter, Martin Brunt, on twitter for doorstepping Brenda Leyland on behalf of Gerry McCann.

Prime Minister Theresa May introduces Prime Suspect Kate McCann to Royalty: The Duchess of Gloucester.

Good Cop Down: The reality of being a police whistleblower
https://goodcopdown.wordpress.com/