The statements of Yvonne Warren Martin

by **Tony Bennett** 01.12.09 23:09

The Statements of Yvonne Warren Martin, Social Worker and Child Protection Officer

Statement of José Monteiro, Inspector, 12 June 2007, to: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation, Dr. Gonçalo Amaral

Evidence to be found in the files, Volume X111 Pages 3422 - 3424

Today we visited the residence of Yvonne Warren Martin. The team was composed of the undersigned and my colleague Carlos Antunes. In conversation with Yvonne, the following was established:

On 4 May 2007, at around 7.00am, she heard about the disappearance of an English girl from Praia da Luz, Lagos, from SKY News or the BBC. Having worked for 25 years in the area of child protection, she felt obliged to offer help to her compatriots and went that very morning to Praia da Luz. At around 9.00am, she met the McCann couple, next to the apartment from where the child had disappeared, accompanied by a third person, a male, who seemed quite familiar to her.

This third person of the group appeared to be an intimate friend of the family as he was the one who, when the media arrived, began to explain what was happening and answering questions, thereby saving the couple from this upset. Afterwards, she further confirmed his closeness to the family when she saw him taking care of the couple’s twins, also small children. She identified herself and presented her credentials and immediately began talking to the mother of the missing child, as she was visibly upset with the situation. During the conversation the mother told her that she did not understand why a couple had abducted her daughter.

However, the third individual [the family friend] overheard this conversation and interrupted Ms. Martin and took the McCann couple away from her. This same individual came shortly afterwards to tell her that the couple did not want to talk to her any further and did not require her help - an action that appeared quite strange to her. Meanwhile, she heard comments near to the resort complex reception area that the British Consul was coming to the site, and so she decided to wait for this person in order to offer her help. During this time, she saw the third individual twice more. Firstly, when he was accompanying an older woman and the McCann twins, demonstrating in this way the trust that the couple had in him by letting him take care of their two children. On the second occasion, he accompanied what appeared to her to be plain clothes police officers.

Yvonne Martin describes the third individual as follows: Aged about 35 years, of about 1.80m (5’ 11”) in height, of normal physical appearance, having short, dark hair, using graduated glasses of small dimensions with rectangular lenses, having a round face, presenting a scar above his eyebrow and on his left cheek, speaking with a Southern English accent, wearing light trousers, cream or beige coloured, and a dark polo shirt. When she was back home, following the case on English television, she saw the same individual and this time, her initial doubt faded and she concluded that she had seen that face in the course of her professional activity in child protection, not being able to discern if he was a suspect/arguido or witness in the case.

She confirms that she is capable of making a photographic identification of the individual, and emphasises that with the identified photo it is possible to access the database of the British police and ascertain whether the individual is related to any crimes involving children.

Bringing this to your attention,
Signed: José Monteiro

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Witness Statement of Yvonne Martin, 13 June 2007, 12noon

Profession: Social Services and Child Protection
Found in the files: Volume XIII Pages 3425 – 3428

[NOTE: The witness was accompanied by a PJ interpreter, Carlos Moura, as she does not speak Portuguese].

She says that she has lived in Portugal for seven years on a part-time basis, in other words, for some months of the year she lives in her home in Sargaçal and for the rest of the year lives in England, where she still works. During the past month of May, or more precisely on 4 May 2007, the witness was in Portugal on holidays, when at about 7.00pm, she turned on the television and watched an English news channel (BBC or SKY News) where she saw an appeal to British citizens on holiday in the Algarve to offer all possible support to a British couple who were on holiday in Praia da Luz and whose daughter, a child, had disappeared on 3 May 2007.

As she works directly with situations of children at risk, and as she was very close to Praia da Luz, she went there with the intention of offering her help and support to the couple. She arrived there at about 9.30am. She confirms that she did not leave immediately for Praia da Luz as she still had some things to do at home, but left at around 9.00am. At first, she could not locate the exact site where the family was staying on holiday. Upon seeing a police patrol car which passed close by her, she asked the police if they could show her the right location. She was accompanied by the patrol car to the apartment from where the child had disappeared, and where the parents were staying. At the scene, she found a group of three people, two males and one female.

She went over to the group and identified herself. Two members of that group, a male and a female, identified themselves as the parents of the missing child - the McCann couple. The couple was visibly upset, and the mother was crying intensely. The third person never identified himself. Upon the witness asking, the couple replied that he was a close friend of the family. She adds that this third person appeared familiar to her.

Taking advantage of the information that she had heard on the news, she began questioning the couple about how often they had checked on the children, obtaining the reply that people would go to see them ‘every hour’. As is normal and routine in her service, she asked whether Gerry was the biological father of the missing child, to which he replied: ‘Yes’. She confirmed that she asked this question because during the course of her 25 years of service working with children at risk, it is very normal that when a couple has child and where the father or the mother is not a biological parent, the biological parent may have a tendency to come and ‘get’ his child.

After having obtained these verbal response from Gerry, the mother, Kate, questioned what she was doing asking these questions, which should be asked by the police, who were already on the scene in large numbers searching for her daughter, who had [apparently] been taken by a couple. At this moment, the witness noticed that the couple began to have doubts about her capacity and she immediately showed them her official documents and credentials, issued by the British government, to calm them down. Gerry took her documents and showed them to the third person and told him that they were authentic and were certified by the police.

At this moment, the witness wishes to clarify that, in England, anyone who works with children, whether a doctor, police officer or social worker, has to have a proper credentials certified by the police and that this was one of the documents she showed to the McCanns.

Because she found it strange that Kate told her that her daughter had been ‘taken by a couple’, she tried to separate her from the other two individuals so that she could speak to her with more privacy, suggesting to Kate that they (Yvonne and Kate) should enter the apartment. She says that Kate aggressively rejected this idea and told her that they could speak on the street.

The witness then asked whether anyone from the Medical Centre had been with Kate as she was very agitated and needed some support; she was told they hadn’t. At this point, Kate told her that her daughter had disappeared 13 hours ago. It was about 10.00am in the morning. Meanwhile a fourth individual came towards the group and identified himself as a journalist. The witness alerted the couple to the type of statements they should give and that it would be better for them to keep silent. At this moment, the third person, who was always near to the couple and the witness, moved the couple away from her and the three of them talked in whispers for some time.

After this, and leaving the couple behind him, he approached the witness and told her that the couple did not want to speak any more with her, nor with anyone else. The witness replied to him that if the McCann couple felt the need to talk to her later, she would be at their total disposal. As she said earlier, this third person of the group is familiar to her, and thinks that she may have come across him in the course of her work, as a suspect or witness.

She adds that, after having spoken to the McCann couple, she spoke to the resort manager, and after identifying herself, asked him whether there had been a break-in in the apartment where the child was, to which he replied, ‘No’, but that the door was open as were the window blinds, which, according to Kate, should have been closed but were found open.

No more was said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

[Yvonne Martin is shown photographs of Dr David Payne]

On 13th June, 2007 at the Portimao DIC, Yvonne Warren Martin appeared before me, José Monteiro, Inspector, in order to proceed with photographic recognition. When asked, she described the suspect and she was shown photographs of various individuals who made up the McCann couple holiday group. Upon seeing the photographs, she recognised David Anthony Payne, an individual who appeared in several photographs, as being the person she referred to in her statements and who she supposedly had known on another occasion.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

STATEMENT OF YVONNE WARREN MARTIN - 14 November 2007

This is taken from Volume XIII, pages 3430 to 3433 of the Portuguese Police files:
Places worked: Gateshead, South Shields, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, York, Hull, North Tyneside and Plymouth, Devon. Profession: Qualified Social Worker and Child Care Manager.

Interpreter: Filipa Maria da Conceicao Silva

The witness gave an earlier statement to the police regarding the facts in question on 13 June 2007. She confirms the truthfulness of that earlier statement.

• States that in the discourse of her contact with Madeleine’s parents, which she describes with detail in her previous declarations, Kate told her the child had been taken by a couple. She did not have the opportunity to probe this question nor any other.

• What she states in respect of the individual who was close to Madeleine’s parents when she met with them, and who was later identified as David Payne, reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual was involved in a situation related to a professional activity of the deponent. She clarifies that on that occasion, nor now that time has passed, could she remember concretely the locale or the situation in which she may have come to know David Payne. She continues to think that the same individual is known to her but cannot state the particular situation. She adds that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work but she cannot be certain where she would have known him.

• States that around two weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance, at a time when the police asked people to come forward with information about a man, carrying a child, was seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, given them the following information: regarding the various details which I observed in contact with the McCanns’ it is her opinion that they may be involved in the disappearance of Madeleine. She first found them aggressive. After she showed Madeleine’s parents her credentials, they also seemed strange. After this she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 percent of cases of children’s disappearance, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it her duty to inform the police of this. She did this anonymously because she did not want to be harassed by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine’s parents, David Payne, who was with them, wore a dark polo, blue or black in colour, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton material, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type with a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing fits perfectly with what the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the deponent think that the parents and their friends could be involved in the disappearance of the child.

• She declares that one of her principal claims when she wrote the anonymous letter is that the British police checked paedophile registers or child abusers and if David Payne was on that list. And nothing more was said…

Subject: The evidence of Yvonne Warren Martin – 14 November 2007

To: The Coordinator of the Criminal Investigation, Paolo Rebelo
From: Paolo Ferreira, Inspector

In the annex, prepared by Inspector José Monteira on 12 June 2007, there are details of two interviews with Yvonne Warren Martin. They relate in detail her intervention with the McCann couple, after having heard about Madeleine’s disappearance.

She adds that, on one occasion, because it had occurred to her that the parents and the friends could turn out to be involved in Madeleine’s disappearance, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police.

The statements given to the PJ today by Yvonne Martin provide a concrete clarification of the reasons for her suspicions, which in my opinion, do not point to any concrete element that could justify further enquiries being made.

With nothing further to add.
Signed: Inspector Ferreira

++++++ ENDS ++++++

by Searcher 19.10.13 18:49

Taken by a couple?

by galena 19.10.13 20:03

Searcher wrote:Taken by a couple?

Well that would tie in with her saying 'they've taken her'

by Ayniia 21.10.13 15:50

Tony Bennett wrote:The Statements of Yvonne Warren Martin, Social Worker and Child Protection Officer
• What she states in respect of the individual who was close to Madeleine’s parents when she met with them, and who was later identified as David Payne, reaffirms that the same individual seems familiar, possibly as this same individual was involved in a situation related to a professional activity of the deponent. She clarifies that on that occasion, nor now that time has passed, could she remember concretely the locale or the situation in which she may have come to know David Payne. She continues to think that the same individual is known to her but cannot state the particular situation. She adds that she may have come to know him professionally through work, potentially having been colleagues at work but she cannot be certain where she would have known him.
• States that around two weeks after Madeleine’s disappearance, at a time when the police asked people to come forward with information about a man, carrying a child, was seen in the Luz zone, and whose clothing was described, she wrote an anonymous letter to the British police, given them the following information: regarding the various details which I observed in contact with the McCanns’ it is her opinion that they may be involved in the disappearance of Madeleine. She first found them aggressive. After she showed Madeleine’s parents her credentials, they also seemed strange. After this she was informed that there were no signs of a break-in in the apartment. Knowing that they are doctors she found it absolutely abnormal that they left their children alone at home. Associating this with her professional experience, which tells her that in 99.99 percent of cases of children’s disappearance, the parents or other family members are involved, she felt it her duty to inform the police of this. She did this anonymously because she did not want to be harassed by the media. But she also states that according to what she remembers, when she met with Madeleine’s parents, David Payne, who was with them, wore a dark polo, blue or black in colour, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton material, and dark shoes (sandal/slipper type with a back buckle/catch). In her opinion, this clothing fits perfectly with what the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the deponent think that the parents and their friends could be involved in the disappearance of the child.

Many people talk about the "Gaspar statements " but IMHO Ms.Yvonne Martin statements are much more impressive.
Profession: Social Services and Child Protection - this in itself makes her very credible. She instantly remembered knowing David Payne, not being able to say exactly from where. Later she writes the anonymous letter because: " David Payne... wore a dark polo, blue or black in colour, cream coloured long trousers, of linen or cotton material, and dark shoes. In her opinion, this clothing fits perfectly with what the Police described the man (carrying the child) to be wearing at the time. All these coincidences made the deponent think that the parents and their friends could be involved in the disappearance of the child."
So we have someone with experience, wanting to help the parents and being dismissed as soon as she "smelled a rat ". IMO David Payne recognized Yvonne too and wanted her far away from them ASAP!
While I dismiss the "Gaspar statements " because they don't seem very consistent ( to me ) and are solely based on what KGaspar witnessed, the Yvonne statements are much more complete and a big "eye opener ".

by Searcher 21.10.13 19:10

Agree, except that I for one can't dismiss Katharine Gaspar's statements - they were after all sworn/signed witness statements based not only on the Mallorca holiday, but I think at least one other incident with the same actions witnessed. What interests me particularly is whether this was ever taken forward formally?

by galena 21.10.13 19:35

Searcher wrote:Agree, except that I for one can't dismiss Katharine Gaspar's statements - they were after all sworn/signed witness statements based not only on the Mallorca holiday, but I think at least one other incident with the same actions witnessed. What interests me particularly is whether this was ever taken forward formally?

I have to agree - I can't dismiss her statements either. She knew the guy after all and was in a better position to judge him than someone who had just met him. I think sometimes people make the mistake of assuming that everything the Tapas 9 say is a lie - it may well be that some or all of them are conspiring with the McCanns to hide something - but that doesn't mean that every single thing they say is part of that conspiracy.