Re: Trip to Huelva

by **tigger** 30.10.13 10:51

TellTheTruth wrote:Could it be that the phone records will catch them out? As other posters have said, they had their phones with them on the trip.

There was talk before the Crimewatch about a study of the phone records and a short interview with a lady ( can't remember her name) who spoke of how forensics had improved over the past 5 years or so. The phone records threads here have always been very interesting.

I always thought the Huevla trip was a cover, it was just another little act. I never understood the need to travel all those miles to hand out a few dozen leaflets. It just doesn't ring true or sound convincing. IMHO.

Their phone records have already caught them out. Both the PJ and SY are in possession of an expert's report on the analyses of the phone calls, starting on the 28th of April. These include the 12 voicemails received by Gerry which coordinate with calls from other numbers. 12 voicemails which are amongst the other calls he deleted from his phone before midnight on the 3rd. Calls which he strongly denied ever having received.

It's a mystery why SY recently started talking about 1000's of calls from about the whole population of PdL and surroundings. Absolute rubbish, they've got the evidence in their hands.

by SchrodingersBody 30.10.13 13:20

If they know which calls were made and which masts were activated, then I presume the authorities can track every handset in time and cross match every number involved with calls coming either into or out of PDL.
It's a huge task, but then people have been quietly working on this case for the past copuple of years with significant resources.
I'm also not sure if I saw somewhere about privacy laws meaning that portugese police only had access to certain records. Maybe english providers can provide some of the missing links in respect of calls to and from "english" handsets.

It wouldn't surprise me if phone records are key in the end whichever way things turn out.

by Gillyspot 30.10.13 21:18

sami wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:Just popped on twitter & saw a link to a HiDeHo video which includes JC's footage of trip to Huelva.

Look @ 4.40 mins - Gerry loading a box which looks like cleaning cloths in the car (why?)
Look @ 4.55 mins - Gerry was wearing plastic gloves (why??).

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@ 4.40 mins Kate can be heard saying "they haven't arrived"- This will be the police for the search by dogs I assume.

All looking somewhat suspicious to me. Did the cleaning cloths have cadaverine on them as dog alerted in boot?

Anyway GTG but hopefully something to think about.
I have mentioned those gloves before but have been told others cannot see them. I'm glad someone else can.

I prefer to think, and think it more likely, it was cloths etc that caused the evidence in the boot as opposed to the little girl being there. This is packing for the trip to Heulva.

Yes it is an interesting video indeed.

Thanks. He was definitely wearing gloves. I am not able to get a screenshot from the original link but this one shows where I saw him wearing the gloves. Incidentally a pair of latex gloves were found in a drawer in their villa

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by Mirage 30.10.13 22:01

Gillyspot wrote:
sami wrote:
Gillyspot wrote:Just popped on twitter & saw a link to a HiDeHo video which includes JC's footage of trip to Huelva.

Look @ 4.40 mins - Gerry loading a box which looks like cleaning cloths in the car (why?)
Look @ 4.55 mins - Gerry was wearing plastic gloves (why??).

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@ 4.40 mins Kate can be heard saying "they haven't arrived"- This will be the police for the search by dogs I assume.

All looking somewhat suspicious to me. Did the cleaning cloths have cadaverine on them as dog alerted in boot?

Anyway GTG but hopefully something to think about.
I have mentioned those gloves before but have been told others cannot see them. I'm glad someone else can.

I prefer to think, and think it more likely, it was cloths etc that caused the evidence in the boot as opposed to the little girl being there. This is packing for the trip to Heulva.

Yes it is an interesting video indeed.

Thanks. He was definitely wearing gloves. I am not able to get a screenshot from the original link but this one shows where I saw him wearing the gloves. Incidentally a pair of latex gloves were found in a drawer in their villa

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I saw this clip ages ago and it sent a chill through me, I well remember. I played that vid so many times, unable to believe my eyes. No, definitely a glove, you can see the wrinkly cuff bit as he brings his hand out from the car interior. And all the while she's on the blower saying the police haven't arrived yet.

Insouciance to an astonishing degree. All in plain sight as usual. The untouchables, or so they think.

by Jon Oxford 30.10.13 23:05

I don't think GM is wearing gloves in that video, although in some of the frames it does look like he is. For example:
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However a frame or two later and it seems clear to me that what we can see is actually a couple of those rubber bracelets he often wears and the whiteness of his hand was just the sunlight:
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by Guest 30.10.13 23:10

Hello JudyTruly

Judy Truly ‏@TrulyJudy73 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] NO SURGICAL (LATEX ) GLOVES on Gerry [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]. 2 yellow wristbands and his skin is all you see

Judy Truly ‏@TrulyJudy73 [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] Yes the sun is reflecting the yellow onto his skin as it does. There is no sign of latex glove [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Fred Up 30.10.13 23:23

Jon Oxford wrote:I don't think GM is wearing gloves in that video, although in some of the frames it does look like he is. For example:
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However a frame or two later and it seems clear to me that what we can see is actually a couple of those rubber bracelets he often wears and the whiteness of his hand was just the sunlight:
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With all due respect, I cannot "unsee" what I clearly saw in that video - latex gloves. A blind man on a galloping horse can see that Gerry is wearing latex gloves. Either that, or he needs an intensive course of Neutrogena hand cream to iron out the wrinkles. Must be exposure to all those detergents that one needs to use on one's hols, y'know? winkwink

by DonNewbery 30.10.13 23:28

Fred Up wrote:With all due respect, I cannot "unsee" what I clearly saw in that video - latex gloves. A blind man on a galloping horse can see that Gerry is wearing latex gloves. Either that, or he needs an intensive course of Neutrogena hand cream to iron out the wrinkles. Must be exposure to all those detergents that one needs to use on one's hols, y'know?

I agree. They seem very clearly to be thin gloves to me. Even with wrinkles, and not fitting the fingers well. Has anyone mentioned that Kate is also clearly wearing gloves at 26:48-56 ?

by MaryB 30.10.13 23:59

I think he is wearing gloves but I could see why there is some confusion. But when Kate McCann is hanging the washing she also is wearing gloves.

by DonNewbery 31.10.13 0:12

MaryB wrote:I think he is wearing gloves but I could see why there is some confusion. But when Kate McCann is hanging the washing she also is wearing gloves.

One possibility is that - if, as seems highly likely, they were wearing gloves a lot on the 3rd and the next few days - and quite a few people may have witnessed this, perhaps they carried on wearing such gloves frequently, to make it look like something that they 'usually do' (as doctors, etc.)?

by ProfessorPPlum 31.10.13 0:20

We've done this 'latex' gloves thing to death a long time ago. I came down firmly on the side of 'no gloves'. I have a lifetime's experience working with images and some of the ill-informed arguments about photoshopped last photos etc and bodies in Rocha Negra (anyone who deals with @oddityfinder on Twitter will know what I'm talking about) were frankly stupid and counterproductive.

The cause of the yellow cast is the wristbands and sunlight combined with the low-quality digitisation of the video. It's not latex gloves (and he wouldn't be foolish enough to accidentally be wearing suspicious latex gloves while being...er...filmed) but I know there will be no convincing those who want to believe that's what they were.

Similarly all that hoo-ha about the pool photo and Madeleine or Amelie being dropped in etc. just makes us look silly IMO.

by DonNewbery 31.10.13 0:38

What about the gloves Kate's wearing at 26.48-56 then? Or can't you see those either?
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by AskTheDogsSandra 31.10.13 7:53

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The McCanns definitely took latex gloves with them on holiday though.

by DurhamGuy1967 31.10.13 8:13

AskTheDogsSandra wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The McCanns definitely took latex gloves with them on holiday though.

Looks like they are both wearing latex gloves to me.

by MrsC 31.10.13 8:16

AskTheDogsSandra wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The McCanns definitely took latex gloves with them on holiday though.

Why on earth would you take latex gloves with you on holiday?

by DurhamGuy1967 31.10.13 8:23

MrsC wrote:
AskTheDogsSandra wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

The McCanns definitely took latex gloves with them on holiday though.
Why on earth would you take latex gloves with you on holiday?

Washing up / changing babies nappies, general cleaning. They are doctors they are easily availably and when they are "free", cheaper then marrigolds. My hands get very chapped sometimes so I put loads of cream on then latex gloves over the top so I don't get cream over everything I touch.

But it is weird in the video.

by ProfessorPPlum 31.10.13 8:29

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Compressed YouTube video at 460 res blurs things and bleeds things. See how the yellow wristbands bleed even in the relatively close up shot?

And if you need to believe Gerry and Kate are wearing latex gloves then you must also accept that the reporter has a blob of ham instead of hands and you need to be prepared to say that in a court of law.

by russiandoll 31.10.13 8:41

I have slowed down and paused this video and you can see the light hitting Gerry's arm and hand. I too say no gloves, although it is easy to see why initially it looks as if he is wearing a latex glove.

by DurhamGuy1967 31.10.13 8:57

russiandoll wrote:I have slowed down and paused this video and you can see the light hitting Gerry's arm and hand. I too say no gloves, although it is easy to see why initially it looks as if he is wearing a latex glove.

We will agree to differ ,FYI I 've searched and can't find any other threads for gloves or latex.

Could someone more capable than me do a new thread with a link to the video and question.

Is Gerry wearing gloves?
Is Kate wearing gloves?

But maybe with a warning to watch it carefully a few times.

Thanks

by margaret 31.10.13 9:51

ProfessorPPlum wrote:We've done this 'latex' gloves thing to death a long time ago. I came down firmly on the side of 'no gloves'. I have a lifetime's experience working with images and some of the ill-informed arguments about photoshopped last photos etc and bodies in Rocha Negra (anyone who deals with @oddityfinder on Twitter will know what I'm talking about) were frankly stupid and counterproductive.

The cause of the yellow cast is the wristbands and sunlight combined with the low-quality digitisation of the video. It's not latex gloves (and he wouldn't be foolish enough to accidentally be wearing suspicious latex gloves while being...er...filmed) but I know there will be no convincing those who want to believe that's what they were.

Similarly all that hoo-ha about the pool photo and Madeleine or Amelie being dropped in etc. just makes us look silly IMO.

I agree with you. In the still photos it does look like gloves, but in the video it's clear there are no gloves, just a trick of the light.

by Guest 31.10.13 11:11

I'm firmly in the no gloves camp.

But, I always have latex gloves available, also while traveling. They don't take any real space and sometimes come in very practical. At home there's always a big box in the utility room.

by Onager 01.11.13 19:58

Stewie wrote:Looking at the official timeline for Huelva we have:

The timeline, according to The Sun, is as follows:
09:00 Leave Praia da Luz
12:15 Arrive Huelva (expected at 11:00am)
13:00 Distribute leaflets and posters at train station
13:30 Distribute leaflets and posters at cathedral
14:00 Distribute leaflets and posters at bus station
14:20 Leave to return to Praia da Luz

But the police have the phone ping records and a witness statement which tell a different timeline:

Phone records:
Ping Assumadas mast 0849
Ping Tavira mast 1345
Ping Luz 1438
Witness statement:
Saw Mccanns in car at traffic lights in Huelva 1120

This gives us a new timeline:

Leave luz 0749
Assumadas ping ( from Luz 84k 57 mins ) 0849
Arrive Huelva (from Assumadas 122k 1hr 20) 1010 (1110 local time - 1 hour diff between portugal and spain)
Sighting in Huelva 1120 (1020 portuguese time)
Leave Huelva latest 1245
Tavira ping (from Huelva 85k 1hr) 1345
Luz ping (from Tavira 115k 1hr 15) 1438 must have been speeding

So I would say given this they were in huelva early stayed maybe a few hours and were back in luz by mid afternoon - very different to how the media portrayed it.

Data is taken from the pj files narrative for Kate phone pings 3 august:

On 3rd the first record of the mobile phone of Kate on this day was made on the antenna "Assumadas 2" at 8:49:07 and the second was already on the antenna of the operator Optimus installed in the [parish] of Santa Maria, municipal area of Tavira at 13:45:45.

The subsequent records indicate the journey of return to Luz, where it activates the antenna, also of the operator Optimus, installed in the [parish] of Luz, of the Municipality of Lagos at 14:38:56.

On the route are activated the antennae installed in Tavira (Santiago), Santo Estevao, Estoi, Santa Barbara of Nexe, Loule (Sao Clemente), Ferreiras, Pera, Porches and Estombar, entering then into the coverage area of the antenna of Luz.

According to the news related by some organs of the written media on 4th, the McCann were on this day in Huelva as part of their campaign to locate Madeleine.

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Does anyone know if this subject continues elsewhere, or did it lose steam at this point?

Having read the thread, and then stared at the map... between the two pings (Assumadas and Tavira) the McCann's had five hours available to them to cover 200km or more (Stewie, I think your distances are a little high) predominantly on a good road, leaving roughly 3 hrs (if not more, judging by distance/time between the latter two pings) to spend time putting up posters, handing out leaflets... etc. More than enough time to make a one hour detour...

A detour, or something else very important...

If nothing else, it's the switching off of the phone for 5 hours that gets me.

I mean, here are a couple 'shouting from the rooftops', searching for their 'lost' child, having suffered for the previous 3 months, and they switch off their phone(s?) thereby making it impossible for anyone to contact them re their other two children should an emergency arise... it just doesn't make sense.

Do we know if Kate was/is in the habit of switching off her phone to save battery?

by **Nina** 01.11.13 20:11

Please may I just add as a resident in Spain. A distance in kms by car in Spain, and no doubt in Portugal, is different than covering the same distance on UK roads.
This Monday I visited a village close to Ronda, I live close to Malaga so on a map very close but because of the types of road starting off on dirt tracks, then to single carriageway, then to double carriagway and then to toll roads, off onto excellent mountain passes, then back to single carriageway the seemingly short journey took hours.
Please take this into consideration when thinking where they may have been. However I do know that the roads they would have travelled on are major roads in the main so who knows, they may have taken some detours.

by Guest 01.11.13 20:14

Châtelaine wrote:I'm firmly in the no gloves camp.

But, I always have latex gloves available, also while traveling. They don't take any real space and sometimes come in very practical. At home there's always a big box in the utility room.

Traveling, Chatelaine dear? As in opening and closing the doors of your rented Renault Scenic, with the missus looking on, in the summer heat in Portugal?

Blimy, I put them on -surgical gloves that is- all the time!

And I always carry a microscope with me on my holidays too, just look at the whole video where you can see it sitting on a ledge.

Why?

Just because

by Guest 01.11.13 20:28

Portia, I think there are NO surgical gloves in that video ...
The rest of my post is airwaves ;-)

I do agree, though, that the Huelva-trip is somewhat suspicious, odd ...
And where's the microscope?
Or is that another of your jokes?
big grin

by Guest 01.11.13 20:47

Châtelaine wrote:Portia, I think there are NO surgical gloves in that video ...
The rest of my post is airwaves ;-)

I do agree, though, that the Huelva-trip is somewhat suspicious, odd ...
And where's the microscope?
Or is that another of your jokes?

No, to the last question

On the video of mr & mrs packing the car you clearly see mr wearing a surgical/latex glove, which many some consider unusual during high summer

by Guest 01.11.13 20:53

Portia wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Portia, I think there are NO surgical gloves in that video ...
The rest of my post is airwaves ;-)

I do agree, though, that the Huelva-trip is somewhat suspicious, odd ...
And where's the microscope?
Or is that another of your jokes?

No, to the last question

On the video of mr & mrs packing the car you clearly see mr wearing a surgical/latex glove, which many some consider unusual during high summer

***
We may have to agree to disagree then. I do NOT see a glove. It's a play of light at rather low definition video ...

by Guest 01.11.13 20:54

Châtelaine wrote:
Portia wrote:
Châtelaine wrote:Portia, I think there are NO surgical gloves in that video ...
The rest of my post is airwaves ;-)

I do agree, though, that the Huelva-trip is somewhat suspicious, odd ...
And where's the microscope?
Or is that another of your jokes?

No, to the last question

On the video of mr & mrs packing the car you clearly see mr wearing a surgical/latex glove, which many some consider unusual during high summer
***
We may to agree to disagree then. I do NOT see a glove. It's a play of light at rather low definition video ...

No offense

by littlepixie 01.11.13 22:11

There must be two versions of this video . On 3a there was a huge thread about the gloves and I could never see them, yet I watched the video again the other day and I can clearly see them/it

by Mulderscully 25.11.13 12:32

Gerry is clearly wearing plastic gloves imo. I have no doubt about it. How you can deny this is beyond me. And I work with photoshop every day.

BUT: could this not be explained simply by the fact that the PJ were already searching their appartmen/car at that time and that they were asked to be as cautious as possible in their actions - by the police themselves. F.e. not to make any more prints than present.

Just a thought.