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THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

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THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by tigger on 15.08.11 8:49

I thought it would be useful to try and work out what the original plan was and how it went wrong.

We will pass by the manner and intention of the disappearance and concentrate on the post 3/5/2007 events.

1) The original story was simple: children safely locked in apartment, broken shutters, abduction.
As we all know, this didn't work. Never mind, make it up as you go along. The plan could still work.
2) what was in place for the plan to work?
Publicity. Maximum world wide publicity.
Key figures in positions of power (not only was there some other connection to GB - for GB it was a God sent vote winner!) to facilitate and protect.
Tapas to back up all their stories however often they changed.
3) Connections in Portugal, esp. PdL in the form of Murat (G had been on golfing weekends several times to Portugal - my bet is PdL) Murat may have agreed to be the patsy, since not a scrap of evidence would be found on him. Compensation for this would have been arranged.
4) The location and time. Gerry most likely knew Murat and PdL. The very suitable corner apartment which belonged to a non-related McCann may have been known to him as well.
5) What should have happened and indeed did:
The press should have worked fantastically well
The 'fighting fund' set up asap
In preparation for that a website set up with facilities and information where to send donations
Important people, celebrities contacted to 'help' and/or donate lavishly in the full glare of publicity
The press would be following the bereft parents, they would become world wide celebrities.
6) What should have happened and didn't:
They were going to learn Portugese - I find that very, very interesting.
Were they going to stay in Portugal forever? For a few years? With the excuse of looking for Madeleine?
K still keeps saying how close she feels to Madeleine in Portugal, when she should feel that at home, where all Madeleine's things are.

I can see an original plan where all the publicity and the Fund would have worked fine, but they could have stayed in Portugal with a good reason, for as long as they liked. They could even have sold the house in Rothley - showing what sacrifices they would make for Maddie.
I just have a feeling that returning to the UK wasn't in the original plan at all.

But once the dogs had found the evidence of a dead body and they were made arguidos that plan was gone.
We have the c word (conspiracy), andthe p (premeditation) word.
I'm with the p word. It's nothing I could possibly prove but one thing stuck in my mind:
Gerry standing in front of the easel with the 'wider agenda', a man with a plan which had been long delayed. IMO.

By now it's really the m word: making it up as you go along.











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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by Angelique on 18.08.11 2:21

I have to agree with you that I also now think it was all the 'p' word - premeditated.

Even though we don't know what is in the withheld files and GA states that the last sighting was on the 3rd May it would have been difficult to organise - I don't think anyone can think that fast.

Also it's the coloboma/now fleck that makes me think - this is too clever to have been a quirk of fate. To have a photo printed then let everyone believe it was a coloboma (it also connects to CEOP) but as far as I know the McCanns never verbally confirmed this at the beginning - just let everyone else assume it. But then to recently deny it. It's all too much of a coincidence. IMO some very astute players in this.

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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by jd on 18.08.11 2:27

I wonder if they got the idea from Murats glass eye

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Two people with a glass eye?

Post by tigger on 18.08.11 6:23

jd wrote:I wonder if they got the idea from Murats glass eye

I did lot on statistics and probability when I was at university. Although, with all the 'players' in this drama: TWO people with a glass eye?
Both main players. That really is amazing!
Don't worry, it really has to be coincidence, I didn't know Murat had a glass eye.

If you look at the many photos of Madeleine when she was much younger, she never looks all that well IMO. Now she is said to have had ADHD, had tantrums, was a screamer, was backward in speaking for her age, was possibly a sleepwalker and she was not particularly pretty.
I know, I know, lots of photos say otherwise, but lots of photos have been manipulated. In an awful lot she has strangely 'thickened' eyes, in the iconic photo her skin is completely bleached out, her enhanced eyes without 'walls' underneath.
But look at the film of her as a fairy, above here is a still. I don't know.
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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by Miraflores on 18.08.11 7:39

but as far as I know the McCanns never verbally confirmed this at the beginning - just let everyone else assume it.
Well I think they did. I remember seeing a film clip, long since whooshed, where Kate said that Madeleine had a defect/fleck in her eye and that 'it's called a coloboma'. Anyone else remember that? Better still, can anyone find a clip of it?

Not to mention all the posters that they were happy to hold up, have printed on t-shirts.....with the funny o, like a coloboma.
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Amaral must know

Post by tigger on 18.08.11 8:25

Miraflores wrote:
but as far as I know the McCanns never verbally confirmed this at the beginning - just let everyone else assume it.
Well I think they did. I remember seeing a film clip, long since whooshed, where Kate said that Madeleine had a defect/fleck in her eye and that 'it's called a coloboma'. Anyone else remember that? Better still, can anyone find a clip of it?

Not to mention all the posters that they were happy to hold up, have printed on t-shirts.....with the funny o, like a coloboma.

I should think Amaral should know, because it was discussed when he advised against using that photograph. That's when he said it would be a death sentence as it would set her apart. So perhaps the PJ have it on record.

And yes, I see a 'fine Italian hand' behind it, I don't rate the intelligence of the McCanns very highly. Without the massive support they had from day one, (well, probably from before day one) they would have been sunk.
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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by jd on 18.08.11 13:26

Ive read a number of time that Murat had a glass eye. Apparently when he was a child he used to take it out or something to scare the other kids!

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Eye eye!

Post by Guest on 18.08.11 13:42

That's one version I've heard too JD but there's another in that the loss of his eye was due to a motorbike accident as a teenager.



P.S. This link gives the accident story. www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article/1794603.ece?token=null&offset=12&page=2



P.P.S. I can't get the link to work but if you google "Robert Murat suspect" you'll find the story.
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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by Guest on 18.08.11 13:43

jd wrote:Ive read a number of time that Murat had a glass eye. Apparently when he was a child he used to take it out or something to scare the other kids!



jd, another forum myth. Murat did not have a glass eye. In this article he puts the record straight.





Blind in one eye because of a detached retina, he had read that he actually had a glass eye. Soon newspapers were quoting contemporaries from his school days "saying I popped out my eye and rolled it around the playground as a party trick … I do not have a glass eye".



http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/mar/06/tabloids-madeleine-mccann-robert-murat
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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by jd on 18.08.11 13:55

Thanks Candyfloss. I had read so many times about a glass eye so assumed there to be truth in it. But he is blind in one eye which makes me wonder why people were saying he had a glass one, whats the point. Oh well if there is money to be made then people would do or say anything as this case is proving

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thanks for the info.

Post by tigger on 18.08.11 17:28

Thanks for putting that right so quickly. Now I shan't be perpetuating wrong info.

What I forgot to put in my main post: both Kate and Gerry kept on saying that they would not leave Portugal until they could go back with Madeleine.
Soon after that we had the stolen wallet, no creditcards etc.
Then there is the empty CAT file, which was accessed several weeks before they left.
So, apart from being broke, was there any other reason they didn't want to go back to the UK?
A reason to stay in Portugal indefinitely. Better climate, plenty of money, buy a villa. Sound pretty good to me.
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The original plan to stay and stay.... why?

Post by tigger on 26.08.11 14:24

Gerry McCann and the long-term agenda

'On the flight to Berlin, Gerry wearily admitted the couple's campaign to find Madeleine could last years.

They refuse to leave Praia da Luz while their precious daughter is still missing.

Asked how long they might stay there, he said: "Well, our kids don't start school for three years."'

- Daily Mirror, 07 June 2007
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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by Angelique on 26.08.11 23:36

Miraflores wrote:
but as far as I know the McCanns never verbally confirmed this at the beginning - just let everyone else assume it.
Well I think they did. I remember seeing a film clip, long since whooshed, where Kate said that Madeleine had a defect/fleck in her eye and that 'it's called a coloboma'. Anyone else remember that? Better still, can anyone find a clip of it?

Not to mention all the posters that they were happy to hold up, have printed on t-shirts.....with the funny o, like a coloboma.

Miraflores

I stand corrected. I obviously missed it.

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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by pennylane on 27.08.11 10:09

The abduction hoax was pre-meditated... I personally believe it was concocted somewhere between a 3-24 hour time span, but Maddie's demise was a sudden occurrence and not pre-meditated. imho.

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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by Guest on 27.08.11 10:16

I'll post this here ans its about the Plan...............................


The Plan

Pretty soon the Portuguese police were contemplating the simulation of an abduction and the indications are clear and plenty that the evening of May 3rd was indeed a staged event. Here follows my interpretation of the events based on the police files and the rogatory interviews, already shortly mentioned in my theory:

There is often the argument against a staging that they could have come up with a more convincing course of events than the one given, had the whole thing been planned in advance. But if you look closer it becomes obvious that there had been an original plan that could have been relatively convincing, if it had not been thwarted by a streak of bad luck that evening. The key to unfold the events of the evening and the original plan is the fact that Matthew Oldfield checked physically on the children of the McCanns at 21:30, something never done before. Gerry himself gives a hint in his statement from May 10th:



„“The deponent had had the wrong idea that MATHEW had seen the bedroom shutters closed when he was there at 21H30, and therefore he thought the disappearance would have taken place between 21h30 and 22h00, but presently he is fully convinced that the abduction took place during the period of time between his check at 21h05 and MATHEW's visit at 21H30.


The checking of the children by Matt divides the timeframe of the dinner in two parts, the time between 21:00-21:30 and 21:30-21:45 when the "abduction" imo was supposed to be detected. The above quoted statement indicates that the original plan contained a confirmation by Matt that Maddie had still been in her room and that the abduction took place between 21:30-21:45. A further indication is the original (and later changed) statement by Gerry that they had always used the front door of the apartment.


„“He is sure that they always entered through the front door, not knowing if they locked it upon leaving. „“

Why was the original version of the closed patio doors changed? The only reason for this was that they had to give Matt a means of entry INTO the apartment. Why? Because the original plan, that saw him checking the children as usual at the windows, was not possible anymore because the time of the abduction had to be changed from the second part of the dinner to the first part and because Matt would have then immediately noticed the open shutters while listening at the window.

They could have omitted Matt's check completely, as tested in one of the versions of the written down timelines in the sticker book, but an important check would then be missing and the threat of neglect charges would be bigger. One should keep in mind that the friends always insisted on 15 minute intervals for their checks while the McCanns were content with 30 minute intervals.

Based on above deliberations the following original plan evolves:

All friends were assembled at the restaurant table at 21:00. At 21:15 Jane would have listened at the windows and at 21:30 Matthew would have done the same listening check at the windows later to confirm that the shutters had still been intact at that time. This would have narrowed down the timeframe for the abduction to 21:30-21:45. During this time all members of the group would have been at the table confirmed by the waiters and Dianne Webster. A sufficient alibi for the whole group for that timeframe. No lies necessary, just feigning ignorance.

But why the change of plan? Why was the time of the abduction brought forward to the time BEFORE Matthew's check? Because only then an independent witness was present who had seen Gerry and who could be used to construct an alibi for the time of the abduction. With the help of a simultaneous sighting by Jane of Gerry, Wilkins and the abductor. But what had made the second alibi necessary? Why did the first plan not suffice? The reason can only have been the meeting with 9 members of the Smith family.

This logic chain shall serve as a summary:

The encounter with the Smith family
-> necessity of an independent alibi for the time of the abduction
-> the only independent witness is Jeremy Wilkins at 21:15
-> Jane's sighting of the abductor at the same time
-> necessity to bring forward the abduction that was originally planned for 21:30-21:45
-> Matt can not be allowed to listen at the window but has to check INSIDE the apartment because otherwise he would have noticed the open window
-> the patiodoors have to be open now to facilitate his entry

Apart from this the discovery of the abduction had to be moved by a quater of an hour to 22:00 to exactly coincide with the Smith sighting and Matthew has to see a tiny bit of light during his check. Enough to "prove" that the abduction had already happened but not enough to get suspicious and raise the alarm.

This original plan and it's necessary changes explain a lot of the oddities and changes in the statements and the timeline regarding the evening:

- the belated opening of the patio doors
- the physical check by Matt which was contrary to all previous checks as Dianne Webster confirmed
- the completely wrong description of apartment 5A by Matthew Oldfield
- the never convincing description of the eggman encounter by Jane Tanner
- the two timelines one with and one without Matt's check
- the fact that the Smith Sighting of the possible abductor was never used like all other sightings were
- the time of the first alarm by Kate at the table of the restaurant at 21:45/50 fits much better in all timelines of the evening.


Eingestellt von Johanna um 13:39

http://unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com/2011/08/der-plan.html
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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by lj on 27.08.11 15:11

pennylane wrote:The abduction hoax was pre-meditated... I personally believe it was concocted somewhere between a 3-24 hour time span, but Maddie's demise was a sudden occurrence and not pre-meditated. imho.

I agree.
I also consider the possibility that Madeleine's demise was not something planned, but could have been related to an illness or accident that happened before these 24h. In children for example, there is the arteria meningea media bleeding that can cause severe brain damage and/or death hours - days after, sometimes just a light, head trauma. That's the reason when a child has fallen on his head the parents get a wake-up schedule to make sure the child does not slide into a coma when sleeping.
It would explain Kate's "we've let her down", because this is one of the first things doctors learn when doing their pediatrics.
But then before that they learn it is gross neglect to leave children of that age alone. A truth that most people don't have to go to medical school for to learn that.


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For me, there was just too much in place

Post by tigger on 27.08.11 21:11

lj wrote:
pennylane wrote:The abduction hoax was pre-meditated... I personally believe it was concocted somewhere between a 3-24 hour time span, but Maddie's demise was a sudden occurrence and not pre-meditated. imho.

I agree.
I also consider the possibility that Madeleine's demise was not something planned, but could have been related to an illness or accident that happened before these 24h. In children for example, there is the arteria meningea media bleeding that can cause severe brain damage and/or death hours - days after, sometimes just a light, head trauma. That's the reason when a child has fallen on his head the parents get a wake-up schedule to make sure the child does not slide into a coma when sleeping.
It would explain Kate's "we've let her down", because this is one of the first things doctors learn when doing their pediatrics.
But then before that they learn it is gross neglect to leave children of that age alone. A truth that most people don't have to go to medical school for to learn that.


I can see your point, but IMO the T7 didn't know the half of it. Maddie could have had an 'accident' early on like the 1st. So she would have been too ill to go out.
The 'we've let her down' was for the benefit of the Tapas. A belated statement on Maddie's demise. By then the Tapas already knew she was dead.
But Rachel's remark about resuscitation fits in with this very well. That is, the Tapas knew Maddie wasn't well, then she died and they agreed to help with the fake abduction because otherwise their friends would lose their jobs, etc. I still favour the 1st May because of the unusual phone activity.
The sudden return from Devon of Murat and so and so forth.

Still, it was a lot of detail to get in even in two days.
The reason why Kate 'knew' she'd been taken: the pink blanket and cuddlecat. The story line as it were.
The photograph and the first poster, apparently on an USB stick, but without a laptop being present in PdL?
The deleted calls on the mobiles, etc. etc. The publicity and VIP's to contact.
Plus the laundry, the washed curtains, the washed clothes.
The thing is, if you're grieving or taken by surprise because of a dreadful accident, it certainly affects your ability to plan something like that.
It's their behaviour afterwards that's even harder to explain.



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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by dragonfly on 05.09.12 23:18

tigger wrote:
jd wrote:I wonder if they got the idea from Murats glass eye

I did lot on statistics and probability when I was at university. Although, with all the 'players' in this drama: TWO people with a glass eye?
Both main players. That really is amazing!
Don't worry, it really has to be coincidence, I didn't know Murat had a glass eye.


If we are to believe the dogs findings , then GM ,GB . DC all first born's have all sadly passed away

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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by Cristobell on 06.09.12 1:36

tigger wrote:I thought it would be useful to try and work out what the original plan was and how it went wrong.

We will pass by the manner and intention of the disappearance and concentrate on the post 3/5/2007 events.

1) The original story was simple: children safely locked in apartment, broken shutters, abduction.
As we all know, this didn't work. Never mind, make it up as you go along. The plan could still work.
2) what was in place for the plan to work?
Publicity. Maximum world wide publicity.
Key figures in positions of power (not only was there some other connection to GB - for GB it was a God sent vote winner!) to facilitate and protect.
Tapas to back up all their stories however often they changed.
3) Connections in Portugal, esp. PdL in the form of Murat (G had been on golfing weekends several times to Portugal - my bet is PdL) Murat may have agreed to be the patsy, since not a scrap of evidence would be found on him. Compensation for this would have been arranged.
4) The location and time. Gerry most likely knew Murat and PdL. The very suitable corner apartment which belonged to a non-related McCann may have been known to him as well.
5) What should have happened and indeed did:
The press should have worked fantastically well
The 'fighting fund' set up asap
In preparation for that a website set up with facilities and information where to send donations
Important people, celebrities contacted to 'help' and/or donate lavishly in the full glare of publicity
The press would be following the bereft parents, they would become world wide celebrities.
6) What should have happened and didn't:
They were going to learn Portugese - I find that very, very interesting.
Were they going to stay in Portugal forever? For a few years? With the excuse of looking for Madeleine?
K still keeps saying how close she feels to Madeleine in Portugal, when she should feel that at home, where all Madeleine's things are.

I can see an original plan where all the publicity and the Fund would have worked fine, but they could have stayed in Portugal with a good reason, for as long as they liked. They could even have sold the house in Rothley - showing what sacrifices they would make for Maddie.
I just have a feeling that returning to the UK wasn't in the original plan at all.

But once the dogs had found the evidence of a dead body and they were made arguidos that plan was gone.
We have the c word (conspiracy), andthe p (premeditation) word.
I'm with the p word. It's nothing I could possibly prove but one thing stuck in my mind:
Gerry standing in front of the easel with the 'wider agenda', a man with a plan which had been long delayed. IMO.

By now it's really the m word: making it up as you go along.












Very good Tigger. Not sure about Murat though. Taking the rap for child abduction/murder would be very risky though I am still troubled by Gerry's 'I'm not going to comment on that' reply when asked if he knew Murat. Might just have been Gerry the egotist in action, but not sure.

I also tend to think, it became a runaway train, that is, things escalated far beyond anything they could have anticipated, in a very short period of time. I definitely think they are now making it up as they go along, confident that if they keep getting airtime they will convince everyone. However, that is more to do with vanity, and is in fact having the opposite effect, though they are unlikely to accept this as it would mean fading into obscurity, something they will never settle for.

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THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by sammyc on 06.09.12 12:15

What Kate and Gerry failed to anticipate, IMO, was that the disappearance of Madeleine would and could be so freely discussed on the Internet. In May 2007 Facebook and twitter (kikoratton must be giving them nightmares judging by his latest tweets!) and other sites had relatively few users compared to today.

They knew they could control the Media via Clarence Mitchell and other cronies, but could never had guessed that the general public would and could be able to analyse the Offficial PJ Files and begin to question their version of events . They can't patrol the Internet forever searching for anybody and everybody who dares not to believe in the abduction of Madeleine.

They are indeed on a runaway train.
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Re: THE ORIGINAL PLAN?

Post by russiandoll on 06.09.12 13:40

About the files........the believers of the abduction story say doubters are all foolish people who have been misled by the propaganda that is in mistranslated files, done by Portuguese nationals who have an axe to grind.
I have read some of the alleged trustworthy files, and am not sure on what basis they can be deemed any more trustworthy than the others. Regardless, the meaning of what is printed is the same, I never found any words or phrases that were contradictory or even ambiguous.

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