The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Mm11

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Regist10
The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Welcome to 'The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann' forum 🌹

Please log in, or register to view all the forums as some of them are 'members only', then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann.

When you register please do NOT use your email address for a username because everyone will be able to see it!

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Mm11

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Regist10

The creche enquiry

Page 22 of 30 Previous  1 ... 12 ... 21, 22, 23 ... 26 ... 30  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 24.11.11 15:52

@Yankee wrote:The best thing the McCanns can do if truly innocent is to get the case reopened and co-operate with the investigation and get themselves officially cleared. That would put an end to any speculation they don't like being levelled at them.

Great first post Yankee and welcome to the forum, I especially liked this bit and you are absolutely right !!!
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by pennylane 24.11.11 19:47

Stella wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Morning rainbow-fairy, [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

I agree with you about the trolls, only they don't so much as 'descend' upon us, as sit here (and elsewhere) ready to take any in-depth discussions off target, and into the realms of the ridiculous (imo).

That's right Pennylane, which is why it is very important to keep these very specific threads 'on topic'. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

In future, to protect the ongoing work on this thread, anything not relating to creche items will be moved elsewhere.

Sorry for going off-topic, Stella. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]
avatar
pennylane

Posts : 2770
Activity : 4406
Likes received : 1638
Join date : 2009-12-07

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 24.11.11 20:36

Stella wrote:
@Yankee wrote:The best thing the McCanns can do if truly innocent is to get the case reopened and co-operate with the investigation and get themselves officially cleared. That would put an end to any speculation they don't like being levelled at them.

Great first post Yankee and welcome to the forum, I especially liked this bit and you are absolutely right !!!

Atleast we can agree on this one Stella, because those words stood out to me aswell smilie And totaly agree with you here , good post Yankee :) !!!
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 24.11.11 21:05

Stella wrote:Moa, trust me, when I first went down this route, I too could not believe Madeleine's disappearence could ever be pre planned. Part of me even now refuses to accept this. The side of me that believes no one could willingly harm any child. But as we know, children are abused and die all the time at the hands of people they know and trust. Nearly 80% of all infanticides are committed by a parent, or someone close to a parent. We know that Hamish Campbell who is from a Homicide/Infanticide background, is part of the Scotland Yard team along with Simon Foy, from the Child Abuse Investigation Command. It's quite a set up don't you think?

Now, if you put the creche sheet evidence alongside the telephone activity and consider all the movements from all the key people, you will see a picture developing. You may not see this picture, I accept that. But it is very obvious to many that something started happening long before the alarm was raised. Measures were taken from the 29th to hide something. Just look at the tapas booking inconsistency. The group claim Rachel made the booking on the morning of the 29th. The receptionist said it was a man, that it was not Gerry and this man had Madeleine with him. Gerry leaves his telephone number at the creche almost every day, but then switches his phone off for 88 hours. Calls from Kate's phone are deleted from 10.16 on the 1st May, a total of around 20 calls on that day and the next. If a handwriting expert confirms that the creche sheets have been falsified from the 29th, the whole abduction scam comes crashing down and we will all be faced with finding out on what day Madeleine really died. It is then obvious the abduction scam was pre planned and carried out, just as the Portuguese are already claiming. But how did Madeleine die? Was it an accident? Where did it happen? If it was not on the 3rd, it could have been on any day and in any apartment. That is what you have to ask yourself.

At the end of the day. If the creche sheets are genuine and not fakes and IF, again it is a big IF, the handwriting is proven to have been falsified from the 29th. There is no other reason for them to have been falsified, other than Madeleine died before that very first entry. Everything else after that is a salvage operation.

What happened to Madeleine then you may ask? Well, I think the answer to that one lies with the original 'organiser'. The person who might have taken care of everything. All the holiday arrangements from start to finish. All of the invited people. All of the planned activities. All of the pre holiday plans whatever that may have been. I think the answers very much lie with them.

Think of the Gaspar statement and look to the wider circle of friends and acquaintances for those answers.

Thank you for the reply Stelle ! It did make me understand you a little better, and thats always a good thing :) Ty for that :)
First when I say pre-planned I mean before the trip to PDL, I truly believe the "abduction" was preplanned , and by that I mean, something happened and they preplanned this abduction story to hide what really happend..I could agree that something happened one of the first days, and they made the story along the way, wich explains all the fails in their story and all...

I have to step back, look at things again and then come back..
After reading this my head spinned into many directions...One of them was your last part, about someone else, the organiser.. So that could also mean that someone else did something with Madeleine, and the only ones that truly believes she really was abducted is K+G, if not how could they accept something to be done to their daughter, if an accident then the organiser would not be an option.. ?? I feel very strongly that's not what you meant..I might read it wrong due to language barriers? Or im just not knowledged enough about this case to pick up on your true meaning..
If not it means something big with many people involved ? I can't believe any of them ! (I do believe K+G know what happened), It just felt crazy writing this.. I might take a week holliday from this case, I think I need it ! shhhh

fan


Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 25.11.11 8:29

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 442775674 I have to say Moa, 'my' theory and I am the only one who thinks this, is based on what I can see and get a feel for and it could be miles off the mark.

The organiser could have had plans for Madeleine, long before she stepped in the country. Mrs Gaspar told us what had happened on a previous holiday, something like "does Madeleine do this"? Something that involved Gerry and David remember. What if on this holiday to Portugal someone introduced them to like minded men? Maybe the tall thin man who made the block booking. What if all the children were being looked after in the one place at night and none of the parents had to go back and check on them? What if something happened to Madeleine and the group had been told it was an accident, when it was not? They would not have done an autopsy to find out the truth. So a much bigger crime could easily be hidden behind an accident like falling off a balcony and no one is the wiser. creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 302873

Perhaps I should start writing murder mystery novels. creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 181154
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 26.11.11 22:36

Stella wrote:creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 442775674 I have to say Moa, 'my' theory and I am the only one who thinks this, is based on what I can see and get a feel for and it could be miles off the mark.

The organiser could have had plans for Madeleine, long before she stepped in the country. Mrs Gaspar told us what had happened on a previous holiday, something like "does Madeleine do this"? Something that involved Gerry and David remember. What if on this holiday to Portugal someone introduced them to like minded men? Maybe the tall thin man who made the block booking. What if all the children were being looked after in the one place at night and none of the parents had to go back and check on them? What if something happened to Madeleine and the group had been told it was an accident, when it was not? They would not have done an autopsy to find out the truth. So a much bigger crime could easily be hidden behind an accident like falling off a balcony and no one is the wiser. creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 302873

Perhaps I should start writing murder mystery novels. creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 181154

You sure give me something to think of.. I guess it could be possible smilie
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Angelique 27.11.11 20:49

Stella wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I have to say Moa, 'my' theory and I am the only one who thinks this, is based on what I can see and get a feel for and it could be miles off the mark.

The organiser could have had plans for Madeleine, long before she stepped in the country. Mrs Gaspar told us what had happened on a previous holiday, something like "does Madeleine do this"? Something that involved Gerry and David remember. What if on this holiday to Portugal someone introduced them to like minded men? Maybe the tall thin man who made the block booking. What if all the children were being looked after in the one place at night and none of the parents had to go back and check on them? What if something happened to Madeleine and the group had been told it was an accident, when it was not? They would not have done an autopsy to find out the truth. So a much bigger crime could easily be hidden behind an accident like falling off a balcony and no one is the wiser. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Perhaps I should start writing murder mystery novels. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Stella

After reading your reply above I can't help thinking you are some way to actually getting to the bottom of this tangle of events. Especially the events we are not supposed to find out. I have for some time wondered exactly what you propose but have not liked to verbalise it or even suggest it. It is also connected to something which I expect other people would "rubbish out of hand" but I will keep this to myself as even I don't actually believe it could be a way of detecting what actually happened IYSWIM. But if I am going to accept that which you say could have happened - it means that Gerry & Kate are covering up for someone else - doesn't it ? Not that it precludes them from being responsible for what did happen - whatever that was.

What I am going to do is to re-read this whole thread and see if I can see what you see and then have a more solid foundation to believe what my suspicions are telling me!

____________________
Things aren't always what they seem
Angelique
Angelique

Posts : 1396
Activity : 1460
Likes received : 42
Join date : 2010-10-19

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Nina 27.11.11 22:00

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Stella wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.] I have to say Moa, 'my' theory and I am the only one who thinks this, is based on what I can see and get a feel for and it could be miles off the mark.

The organiser could have had plans for Madeleine, long before she stepped in the country. Mrs Gaspar told us what had happened on a previous holiday, something like "does Madeleine do this"? Something that involved Gerry and David remember. What if on this holiday to Portugal someone introduced them to like minded men? Maybe the tall thin man who made the block booking. What if all the children were being looked after in the one place at night and none of the parents had to go back and check on them? What if something happened to Madeleine and the group had been told it was an accident, when it was not? They would not have done an autopsy to find out the truth. So a much bigger crime could easily be hidden behind an accident like falling off a balcony and no one is the wiser. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Perhaps I should start writing murder mystery novels. [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Stella

After reading your reply above I can't help thinking you are some way to actually getting to the bottom of this tangle of events. Especially the events we are not supposed to find out. I have for some time wondered exactly what you propose but have not liked to verbalise it or even suggest it. It is also connected to something which I expect other people would "rubbish out of hand" but I will keep this to myself as even I don't actually believe it could be a way of detecting what actually happened IYSWIM. But if I am going to accept that which you say could have happened - it means that Gerry & Kate are covering up for someone else - doesn't it ? Not that it precludes them from being responsible for what did happen - whatever that was.

What I am going to do is to re-read this whole thread and see if I can see what you see and then have a more solid foundation to believe what my suspicions are telling me!



Madeleine was reported as being special, a child people enjoyed to be with. She is said to have related well to adults and one of her favouritre games was Monsters, a game where a child is chased and often tickled and spun around. Lots of squeels and laughs and the child quickly becomes over heated and hyper.

At the moment I don't have time to find links but all these things were said by the McCanns and their friends.

So here we have a child who is comfortable with adults, not shy and behind her Mum's skirts, no she takes centre stage. She loved to dress up, indeed we have seen many photographs where she is in a dressing up outfit.

I have read where children who are being groomed often are encouraged to play games and dress up. I will not post a link for that as I think it is a questionable site. But just key in dressing up and games and the P word and you will see plenty to make you think ah ah!!

____________________
Not one more cent from me.
Nina
Nina

Posts : 2862
Activity : 3218
Likes received : 344
Join date : 2011-06-16
Age : 78

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Angelique 27.11.11 22:22

Nina

Thank you for your informative post.

It is this "area" that I was referring to. I am sure that the site will tell exactly what you are saying. I would rather not "go there". I think bearing in mind the picture thread is very informative as well then I can say that I have to agree with you.

____________________
Things aren't always what they seem
Angelique
Angelique

Posts : 1396
Activity : 1460
Likes received : 42
Join date : 2010-10-19

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 07.12.11 9:50

Interesting don't you think, that Madeleine is the child who goes missing, yet not one of her creche sheets have been witheld.

Yet the twins have 2 lots of creche sheets missing.

On the first morning, the 29th.

On the last morning, the 3rd.

Why was the 29th and the 3rd so important?

Could it be that this was the first and last day of "simulating a crime"?
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 16.01.12 15:36

sunmontuewedthur
Lobsters2930123
AM in9.459.309.309.209.10
AM out12.1512.1012.2012.3012.25
PM in2.453.152.302.452.50
PM out5.303.305.305.30
Jellyfish2930123
AM inmissing9.209.209.10missing
AM outmissing12.1512.2012.25missing
PM in2.353.252.302.402.45
PM out5.305.205.205.205.25
KMsigned
GMsigned
Madeleine not siged out
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 16.01.12 15:37

sunmontuewedthur
Lobsters2930123
AM in9.459.309.309.209.10
AM out12.1512.1012.2012.3012.25
PM in2.453.152.302.452.50
PM out5.303.30 5.305.30
both children signed in/out within 10 minutes
both children signed in/out within 5 minutes
both children signed in/out at the same time
Madeleine not signed out
EN not signed in
EN not signed out
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 16.01.12 15:39

sunmontuewedthur
Lobsters2930123
AM in9.459.309.309.209.10
AM out12.1512.1012.2012.3012.25
PM in2.453.152.302.452.50
PM out5.303.30 5.305.30
the tapas lists are missing from the files
at 1.15 the cleaners' daughter see MM goingup to the Payne's apartment
cleaner finds G&K still in their room, sometime after 10.00 am
the cleaner also witnesses 1 cot in G&K's bedroom
that's the morning that Cat Nanny signs MM out at 12.30
Madeleine is not signed out
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 16.01.12 15:43

Who left which mobile number when signing in Madeleine at creche.

AM inPM in
29thKM 07903GM 07786
30thGM 07786KM 07903
1stGMKM 07903
2ndGM 07903KM 07903
3rdGM 07786KM 07903
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 16.01.12 15:46

AM2930123
inoutinoutinoutinoutinout
Berry9.1012.009.0012.009.0012.009.3012.309.0012.15
Naylor9.1012.309.2512.309.1012.309.2012.309.10
Mann9.1512.309.3012.309.2512.209.4512.309.2512.30
Totman9.1512.309.0012.259.2012.259.4512.209.2512.20
McCann9.4512.159.3012.109.3012.209.2012.309.1012.25
O'Brien 9.1512.359.00 9.3012.309.5012.30
Patel 9.4512.30
PM2930123
inoutinoutinoutinoutinout
Berry2.305.20 2.305.302.304.30
Naylor2.405.20 2.304.00
Mann3.005.304.30?2.505.302.455.302.305.30
Totman 2.15?2.405.30 3.305.15
McCann2.455.303.153.302.30 2.455.302.505.30
O'Brien2.453.304.00 2.305.302.305.302.304.30
Patel 2.30 2.305.30
did not attend that session
not signed out that session or writing to feint
girl
boy


Got it !!!
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Ollie 16.01.12 17:15

Stella wrote:
sunmontuewedthur
Lobsters2930123
AM in9.459.309.309.209.10
AM out12.1512.1012.2012.3012.25
PM in2.453.152.302.452.50
PM out5.303.305.305.30
Jellyfish2930123
AM inmissing9.209.209.10missing
AM outmissing12.1512.2012.25missing
PM in2.353.252.302.402.45
PM out5.305.205.205.205.25
KMsigned
GMsigned
Madeleine not siged out

Stella setting out the creche records like that makes it so much easier to understand. Thanks for all the work you put in. I didn't know that Madeleine wasn't signed in the morning of the 3rd, is it because they didn't bother signing her in or that she didn't attend that morning. In the afternoon weren't the Lobster group taken to the beach before Madeleine was signed in? I read on Dr Martin Roberts blog that she was signed in but nobody would of been there.
avatar
Ollie

Posts : 263
Activity : 279
Likes received : 6
Join date : 2011-05-22

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by kikoraton 16.01.12 19:24

On signing-out the twins on 30 April, either KM was very stressed, or her siggy was forged.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
kikoraton
kikoraton
Researcher

Posts : 617
Activity : 629
Likes received : 8
Join date : 2010-10-13
Location : Catalunya, Spain

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by kikoraton 16.01.12 19:32

Ditto on signing-out "Madeleine" on that same afternoon. That was the occasion when "Madeleine" made an appearance at creche for only 15 minutes. The signature is all at variance with others - she uses the middle "M" in K M McCann for the one and only time.
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
kikoraton
kikoraton
Researcher

Posts : 617
Activity : 629
Likes received : 8
Join date : 2010-10-13
Location : Catalunya, Spain

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Ollie 16.01.12 19:43

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:On signing-out the twins on 30 April, either KM was very stressed, or her siggy was forged.
[url=https://2img.net/h/i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg238/miffed_album/processopdf01page114-CrecheRecordsS.jpg
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

IMO forged, but why? Why is everything so wrong even at the beginning of the holiday?
avatar
Ollie

Posts : 263
Activity : 279
Likes received : 6
Join date : 2011-05-22

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by uppatoffee 16.01.12 20:29

Suggests to me that something happened a lot earlier than the McCanns would have us believe.
uppatoffee
uppatoffee

Posts : 626
Activity : 645
Likes received : 3
Join date : 2011-09-14

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by kikoraton 16.01.12 21:38

I don't believe KM took any child to the Lobster Group that afternoon. Not the real Maddie, who had left us by then, and not the substitute Mad'lene either. Something made KM panic, and she felt compelled to pretend that her child had been in the creche. Then she took the twins to jellyfish at 15,25 -
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
---- I don't know why there's a printed "a" in the time-in column----- and dashed back to sign a non-existent child out of Lobsters before anybody could even think of doing a head-count. If, indeed, her signing-out siggy at the jellyfish register has been forged, that left her the whole of the rest of the afternoon to do whatever she wanted to do. Payne had a call or text message at 15,50, which may be relevant.
Unsurprisingly, KM's book doesn't make anything of the 30th!!
kikoraton
kikoraton
Researcher

Posts : 617
Activity : 629
Likes received : 8
Join date : 2010-10-13
Location : Catalunya, Spain

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by kikoraton 16.01.12 21:50

Note that Elizabeth Naylor didn't show up to Lobster Group that afternoon. So probably her little friend Mad'lene (from the same neighbourhood, soon to be at the same school) stayed away. Therefore - no substitute!!!
A similar embuggerance took place on the very first morning, 29 April. E Naylor showed up first, and OMG panic panic!!! KM signed in "Madeleine" 35 minutes later. Except that Cat Baker herself told the PJ that Madeleine was signed in, but "she couldn't actually say that she saw her there".
"The best-laid plans" and all that. Tick-tock.
kikoraton
kikoraton
Researcher

Posts : 617
Activity : 629
Likes received : 8
Join date : 2010-10-13
Location : Catalunya, Spain

Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 17.01.12 9:14

@Ollie wrote:
Stella wrote:
sunmontuewedthur
Lobsters2930123
AM in9.459.309.309.209.10
AM out12.1512.1012.2012.3012.25
PM in2.453.152.302.452.50
PM out5.303.305.305.30
Jellyfish2930123
AM inmissing9.209.209.10missing
AM outmissing12.1512.2012.25missing
PM in2.353.252.302.402.45
PM out5.305.205.205.205.25
KMsigned
GMsigned
Madeleine not siged out


Stella setting out the creche records like that makes it so much easier to understand. Thanks for all the work you put in. I didn't know that Madeleine wasn't signed in the morning of the 3rd, is it because they didn't bother signing her in or that she didn't attend that morning. In the afternoon weren't the Lobster group taken to the beach before Madeleine was signed in? I read on Dr Martin Roberts blog that she was signed in but nobody would of been there.

Ollie, I think you might be looking at the bottom Jellyfish sheets for the twins. Madeleine was in the Lobsters group at the top, the twins were in Jellyfish at the bottom. The two side by side, is to see who got signed in first out of the twins, or Madeleine. As for the beach visit, I have no idea, I don't trust the nanny's tales very much.
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 17.01.12 9:31

AM2930123
inoutinoutinoutinoutinout
Naylor9.1012.309.2512.309.1012.309.2012.309.10
McCann9.4512.159.3012.109.3012.209.2012.309.1012.25
PM2930123
inoutinoutinoutinoutinout
Naylor2.405.20 2.304.00
McCann2.455.303.153.302.30 2.455.302.505.30
did not attend that session
not signed out that session or writing to feint
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

creche enquiry - The creche enquiry - Page 22 Empty Re: The creche enquiry

Post by Guest 17.01.12 9:37

AM2930123
inoutinoutinoutinoutinout
Naylor9.1012.309.2512.309.1012.309.2012.309.10
McCann9.4512.159.3012.109.3012.209.2012.309.1012.25
PM2930123
inoutinoutinoutinoutinout
Naylor2.405.20 2.304.00
McCann2.455.303.153.302.302.455.302.505.30


What happened on the afternoon of the 30th. Naylor does not attend and Madeleine is in and out, within 15 minutes.
Anonymous
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Page 22 of 30 Previous  1 ... 12 ... 21, 22, 23 ... 26 ... 30  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum