The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann. Please note that your username should be different from your email address!

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

(Please note: if you register with the sole intention of disrupting or spamming, please don't expect to be a member for too long.)

Many thanks,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Where is the body?

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Where is the body?

Post by jacquidawn on 10.06.11 21:07

If she was really abducted then of course I understand why they would cling to the hope that Maddie was still alive.
However, if she was dead and died from something which they did and they covered it up, it would make sense to keep the idea that she was alive for as long as possible, as while we are all looking for a live child, we are not looking for a dead body.
So that begs the question, if Maddie is dead, where is the body? They must be 100% certain that she will never be found, so what did they do with her? If we could solve this one then the case is wrapped up.
Has anyone got any ideas? I would be interested to here from those who believe they were involved and those who believe they are innocent. What I'm asking is for everyone to forget which side of the fence they sit and ask the question, how would you get rid of the body so that no-one could find it?
And no I am not a killer looking for ideas incase anyone asks, these questions have to be asked.
I apologise if this has been asked before, please point me to the link so that I can read replies...cheers

jacquidawn

Posts : 7
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-06-10
Age : 48
Location : suffolk england

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by ufercoffy on 10.06.11 21:12


____________________
Whose cadaver scent and bodily fluid was found in the McCann's apartment and hire car if not Madeleine's?  Shocked
avatar
ufercoffy

Posts : 1641
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2010-01-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by pennylane on 10.06.11 21:16

I don't think we can presume the McCanns are 100% certain the body will never be found, jacqui.

pennylane

Posts : 2756
Reputation : 1588
Join date : 2009-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by ufercoffy on 10.06.11 21:17

Unless she's been cremated.

____________________
Whose cadaver scent and bodily fluid was found in the McCann's apartment and hire car if not Madeleine's?  Shocked
avatar
ufercoffy

Posts : 1641
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2010-01-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by pennylane on 10.06.11 21:20

@ufercoffy wrote:Unless she's been cremated.

It's possible of course, but not a "100%" certainty.

pennylane

Posts : 2756
Reputation : 1588
Join date : 2009-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by ufercoffy on 10.06.11 21:23

@pennylane wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:Unless she's been cremated.

It's possible of course, but not a "100%" certainty.

But if she has been cremated it would explain why they've been able to carry on their abduction story for the past 4 years with their sniggers and sneers....knowing full well they can ask for money for ever.

Good ongoing mortgage/pension scam.

____________________
Whose cadaver scent and bodily fluid was found in the McCann's apartment and hire car if not Madeleine's?  Shocked
avatar
ufercoffy

Posts : 1641
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2010-01-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by pennylane on 10.06.11 21:33

@ufercoffy wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
@ufercoffy wrote:Unless she's been cremated.

It's possible of course, but not a "100%" certainty.

But if she has been cremated it would explain why they've been able to carry on their abduction story for the past 4 years with their sniggers and sneers....knowing full well they can ask for money for ever.

Good ongoing mortgage/pension scam.

I agree that would be the best scenario for them... if indeed they had the opportunity to pull it off that way, ufercoffy.

I was responding to Jacqui's post where he/she said "So that begs the question, if Maddie is dead, where is the body? They must be 100% certain that she will never be found, so what did they do with her?"


I was pointing out that we don't know if they are fully confident the body will never be found, hence it would be unwise to move forward solely based on that assumption.

pennylane

Posts : 2756
Reputation : 1588
Join date : 2009-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by ROSA on 10.06.11 23:59

Pat Brown, Criminal Profiler

So, search in Portugal and Spain and any other place one can think of. And, yes, search in England: Maddy just might be there.

Would it really be possible for one of the McCanns to cart the body of their daughter back to England? Yes, absolutely. Because of the climate in Portugal, it is possible that should they have buried Maddy in a shallow grave in a sandy substrate, her body would have mummified. Mummification is a desiccation of the corpse where the fluids drain into the ground and the rest of the body dries up. There is relatively little odor associated with a mummified body.

If this occurred, the body would be easier to transport; it would be lighter and drier and lacking the horrible smell of a corpse. Such a body could easily be placed in a sealed bag and placed in a suitcase. Screening of stowed luggage is not likely to uncover a body inside of a suitcase and when the traveler reaches the other end and goes through customs, they enter the "Have nothing to declare line," and just walk through (unless they exhibit concerning behavior that raises a red flag and launches a search of the luggage). As to the McCanns, I seriously doubt they were searched upon arrival, not with all the press surrounding them and the mass of curious onlookers, reporters, and VIPS lurking about.

IF the McCanns were involved and IF Maddy's body was brought home, when this would have happened is another question. Unfortunately, only those inside the organization would (we hope) know the truth about the McCann's movements. For example, Gerry McCann returned to England on June 19, just four days after an exhaustive search for Madeleine was called off. This search was in an arid, desolate area (the kind of climate which might encourage the mummification of a body) near a town called Odiaxere. A letter from an unknown sender had stated she could be found there in a shallow grave. Four days later, Gerry is on a plane home. I don't know if he took any luggage with him, anything more than a rucksack (which I don't know the size of). He only stayed for the day, purportedly to attend some meetings. He claims he had his wallet stolen while getting money from an ATM and later that evening, the wallet was mailed back to him. A rather peculiar story that I wonder might not be a cover for the reason he was late to his meetings; he ostensibly spent the time calling credit card companies to cancel his credit cards.

If I were the police investigator, I would follow up this lead. I would want to know what luggage Gerry took with him to England. I would try to see if there was any proof to the wallet theft story. I would find out if he had any "alone" time on the trip. I would find out if he made those phone calls to the credit card companies and if he really got money from an ATM. I would find out exactly where he was that day through any evidence of his movements (phone call tracking, receipts, witnesses, etc.). I would want to know if anyone met him, especially anyone who he could have transferred a package from one suitcase to another.

I would check all the McCann trips and look for possibly ways for them to transport a body away from Portugal. And, again, I would look for all possible places within Portugal or neighboring countries as possible places to hide or bury a body. I would check the possibility of a burial at sea.

If I were the Portuguese police, I would be following all leads, even those that lead away from the McCanns. It never hurts to be thorough. The point is to recover Madeleine, dead or alive, and bring justice to those that hurt her. In the end, it doesn't matter which theory is correct (except as an educational tool for future investigations). It only matters that the case is solved.




ROSA



Posts: 425
Join date: 2011-04-20
Location: New Zealand





avatar
ROSA

Posts : 1189
Reputation : 33
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Lakemba Sydney Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by xtrouble on 11.06.11 0:14

If she wasn't alive the publicised "Reason" for keping the money rolling in would disappear, and they'd have to start a new "Stop the Nutters" limited company !

xtrouble

Posts : 8
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2011-05-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by LittleMissMolly on 11.06.11 9:15

One only has to remember the Moors Murders and Keith Bennett (who at 12 would have needed a considerably larger grave than a 4 year old) to realise that bodies buried in remote areas have a very large chance of not ever being found.

Personally I don't believe that Madeleine was cremated - without the use of a proper cremator it is extremely difficult to cremate a body as it requires very high temperatures over a longish period of time and thus constant feeding of the pyre. It's also rather difficult to hide.... Granted Dennis Nilson managed it in his back garden, but then he used tyres etc to mask the smell and still had to dispose of the long bones which don't disintegrate easily (in a crematorium they use a grinder to reduce them to 'ashes').




____________________
Joseph Goebbels (a man who ought to know):
If you tell a lie big enough and repeat it often enough then the public will eventually believe it

LittleMissMolly

Posts : 152
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-05-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by Guest on 11.06.11 9:40

KM certainly seems to have an obesession with the rocks and Rocha Negra in her book...................................

Pat Brown - on Kate's book

This is MORE than an obsession.

The meeting ended with a final body blow. Danie Krugel, on whom we had, irrationally, hung so much hope, had produced a
report for the PJ based on his findings. His machine had recorded a ‘static signal’ from an area around the beach, close to or
on the Rocha Negra cliff. Although this included villas, apartments and other buildings, the implication of the ‘static signal’ was
that Madeleine was most likely to be dead and buried there.



by Baronstu
on Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:53 pm

Search in: Kate McCann's book: 'Madeleine'
Topic: Pat Brown - on Kate's book
Replies: 19
Views: 464
Pat Brown - on Kate's book

Our Kates obsession again.

That first weekend I’d felt a burning desire to run up the Rocha Negra, and Gerry and I would in fact do so many times over
the next few months. In places it was just too steep and I had to slow down to walking speed, but if I dared to stop
(interpreted by my brain as failure) I would mentally beat myself up. It still felt as if every challenge had to be met on
Madeleine’s behalf. I wouldn’t recommend such mind games: they certainly don’t make life any easier. But as Gerry will readily
confirm, I can be quite stubborn, though I’d prefer to call it determined.


by Baronstu
on Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:52 pm

Search in: Kate McCann's book: 'Madeleine'
Topic: Pat Brown - on Kate's book
Replies: 19
Views: 464


Pat Brown - on Kate's book

Our Kate seems to have a "thing" about "Rocha Negra.

[i]A lady from an apartment across Rua Dr Gentil Martins, overlooking our little side gate, came over to speak to us. She said
that the previous night she had seen a car going up the Rocha Negra – the black, volcanic cliff that dominates the village.
There was a track leading to the Rocha Negra but nobody remembered ever having noticed any vehicle that far up in the
daytime, let alone at night. This immediately conjured visions of Madeleine being disposed of somewhere on the overhanging
cliff. I went to tell one of the police officers who was able to speak a little English. He was quite dismissive. It would have been
one of the GNR men checking the area, he said.



by Baronstu
on Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:48 pm

Search in: Kate McCann's book: 'Madeleine'
Topic: Pat Brown - on Kate's book
Replies: 19
Views: 464
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by ROSA on 11.06.11 10:00

If Madeleines body is found under suspicious circumstances what tests would be done on a skeleton
avatar
ROSA

Posts : 1189
Reputation : 33
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Lakemba Sydney Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by pennylane on 11.06.11 10:13

@ROSA wrote:If Madeleines body is found under suspicious circumstances what tests would be done on a skeleton

That's a good question ROSA. Firstly it can be ascertained if there are fractures and breaks in the bones that were via blunt force trama. Then there's broken neck or strangulation signs that can sometimes be ascertained. Also bodies (skeletons) can be exhumed after many years and show traces of arsenic and other suspicious substances when tested. So it appears it's possible to ascertain an awful lot even after many years of deterioration. As far as sexual interference goes.... that I am not sure about.

pennylane

Posts : 2756
Reputation : 1588
Join date : 2009-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by ROSA on 13.06.11 0:15

Thanks for the info pennylane
Location & Concealment important finding her body would solve the case who would then give Madeleine the funeral if the McCanns are locked up ?
avatar
ROSA

Posts : 1189
Reputation : 33
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Lakemba Sydney Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by Zelina on 14.06.11 11:13

Have I misunderstood Pat Brown or is she seriously suggesting Madeleine's body could have been brought back to England?

I'm sure she knows what she's talking about but how would that be possible considering the media scrutiny at the time? Weren't the McCanns followed pretty much everywhere they went?

Zelina

Posts : 51
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-05-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by Guest on 14.06.11 11:29

A car has two sets of keys does it not?

The McCann's and the body in the car could have driven to Lagos one day. They could have got out of the car and walked somewhere, any photographers would have followed them, not stayed with their car. Then someone with the second set of car keys removes a sports bag from their boot and closes it, leaving the keys inside. Two hours later the McCann's return to the car and they drive off with a now empty car. Meanwhile the bag gets transferred to a boat in the marina and off it sails back to the UK.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by Guest on 14.06.11 11:33

Stella wrote:A car has two sets of keys does it not?

The McCann's and the body in the car could have driven to Lagos one day. They could have got out of the car and walked somewhere, any photographers would have followed them, not stayed with their car. Then someone with the second set of car keys removes a sports bag from their boot and closes it, leaving the keys inside. Two hours later the McCann's return to the car and they drive off with a now empty car. Meanwhile the bag gets transferred to a boat in the marina and off it sails back to the UK.


Hi Stella, I remember reading somewhere, that the McCanns had an arrangement with all the press and media, that if they did some photo's most days, they would leave them in peace, which is what I think they did most of the time, except of course for certain times, such as arguido day, and the day they came back to the UK, although even then they had informed them of this.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by Guest on 14.06.11 11:45

I guess they had to go shopping quite freqently to fill their new villa. Maybe a visit into Lagos happened so often that they could almost guarantee no one would be watching them. Or I should say their car anyway. The Lagos marina area is where the restaurant translated into 'the doctors' was, that a few people had a very hissy fit over talking about on MCF.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by ROSA on 14.06.11 11:54

They wanted to secure their mortgage have not since moved and Madeleines bedroom no visitors allowed a shrine their property was never searched .by the police correct me if im wrong Madeleine could of been cremated in England her ashes with the famiily if so there would no longer be a pshysical body.
avatar
ROSA

Posts : 1189
Reputation : 33
Join date : 2011-04-19
Location : Lakemba Sydney Australia

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by Zelina on 14.06.11 12:15

Stella wrote:A car has two sets of keys does it not?

The McCann's and the body in the car could have driven to Lagos one day. They could have got out of the car and walked somewhere, any photographers would have followed them, not stayed with their car. Then someone with the second set of car keys removes a sports bag from their boot and closes it, leaving the keys inside. Two hours later the McCann's return to the car and they drive off with a now empty car. Meanwhile the bag gets transferred to a boat in the marina and off it sails back to the UK.
Isn't it incredibly risky though?
Who knows, they are so brazen they could have done it.

Zelina

Posts : 51
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2011-05-25

Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by ufercoffy on 14.06.11 13:19

@Zelina wrote:
Stella wrote:A car has two sets of keys does it not?

The McCann's and the body in the car could have driven to Lagos one day. They could have got out of the car and walked somewhere, any photographers would have followed them, not stayed with their car. Then someone with the second set of car keys removes a sports bag from their boot and closes it, leaving the keys inside. Two hours later the McCann's return to the car and they drive off with a now empty car. Meanwhile the bag gets transferred to a boat in the marina and off it sails back to the UK.
Isn't it incredibly risky though?
Who knows, they are so brazen they could have done it.

I wonder how long it would take to sail to the UK because the body was already thawing out in the boot of the car. Unless it was placed in a fridge on the boat it would really have smelled bad by the time they got there.

Plausible theory though, Stella.

____________________
Whose cadaver scent and bodily fluid was found in the McCann's apartment and hire car if not Madeleine's?  Shocked
avatar
ufercoffy

Posts : 1641
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2010-01-04

Back to top Go down

where is the body?

Post by puzzled on 14.06.11 13:53

Hello, guest here.

I've been browsing this site with interest, and I have to admit, I have one problem with the scenario of the McCann's guilt. The evidence of the sniffer dogs that there was a corpse in the apartment seems pretty convincing. But what I can't figure out is the hire car. they didn't hire it until over three weeks after the disappearance. Surely they didn't keep her body for that time, and then go off somewhere to dispose of it? That would be taking an incredible risk. Also, how could there be blood in the car, when a dead body doesn't bleed? Just wondering, and very puzzled.
avatar
puzzled
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by Guest on 14.06.11 14:18

Hi puzzled.

Goncalo Amaral refers to bodily fluids found in the car, which are familiar with bodies that have been frozen and start to thaw out. Now that could be anything that contains elements of blood.

Hi Ufercoffy.

I've been on a friends boat, a Broom (I think that's how you spell it) many years ago and it had a built in fridge which might have also had a freezer attached to it. I am led to belive it was a very fast boat too.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Where is the body?

Post by puzzled on 14.06.11 14:46

Hi Stella, thanks for that.

I still feel puzzled though. Why would they  freeze the body for some three weeks, and then decide to dispose of it in the hire car? What would be the point of that? Wouldn't it have been easier to dispose of it on the night?

I should say here that I don't feel any sympathy for the McCanns at all and think they should be prosecuted for child neglect, but the evidence against them doesn't quite add up either.
avatar
puzzled
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Where is the body?

Post by Guest on 14.06.11 15:14

Who knows what went through their minds puzzled. What goes through anyones minds when they choose to cover-up a crime? But as Doctors, they would know that by freezing a body it would give them plenty of time, not just to think, but to arrange a better resting place for Maddie. They were surrounded by many private apartments and villa's. Goncalo Amaral was removed from the case just as he was about to find out where they had been seen visiting one of them. I do not believe the chlidren were generally left alone that week. I do not believe that Madeleine died on the 3rd either. I think it was the night of the 28th, looking at the phone activity and creche records. Waiting until they had a car to deal with the body, was a very sensible move I think. Who knows what really happened to that poor little girl. All children have accidents, so there has to be a very good reason why they could not as two professional Doctors, explain any accident away to a Police force.

The twins may have shown to be drugged on the night by their sleepyness, but I doubt very much that Madeleine was given anything to have caused her death and do not believe this was a reason for hiding the body either.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum