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A few oddities - Page 5 Mm11

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A few oddities

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Post by LG78 on 22.08.11 9:05

Marian wrote:Maybe it's too early in the day for me but surely it was the wooden external shutters that were repaired? They were the ones which were famously quoted as being "jemmied" open by the "abductor" before it was proved that they weren't. I've not heard any mention of the Venetian blind type until now.

It is to early for you lol :)
The venetian blind was just an example to me to explain the word Blinds :) The translate doesnt tell wich blinds where fixed, I just assumed the where the ones in the childrens bedroom..? Anyway, my question was, why did they fix them on the May 1th? And why did they have to instruct the mccanns on how to use washingmachine?
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Post by Guest on 22.08.11 9:50

I only know that the shutters were repaired on 1st May; there is a maintenance report of some sort on this site but I don't think that it provided exact details of what was wrong. As for the washing machine, well that's something I probably would have needed help with too.



May I ask what country you hail from LG78? I always find it interesting to hear how people outside the United Kingdom came to hear about the McCann case.
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Post by Guest on 22.08.11 9:56

@LG78 wrote:
Marian wrote:Maybe it's too early in the day for me but surely it was the wooden external shutters that were repaired? They were the ones which were famously quoted as being "jemmied" open by the "abductor" before it was proved that they weren't. I've not heard any mention of the Venetian blind type until now.

It is to early for you lol :)
The venetian blind was just an example to me to explain the word Blinds :) The translate doesnt tell wich blinds where fixed, I just assumed the where the ones in the childrens bedroom..? Anyway, my question was, why did they fix them on the May 1th? And why did they have to instruct the mccanns on how to use washingmachine?

It was the blinds in Gerry & Kate's bedroom that were fixed
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUIS-FERRO.htm
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Post by Gillyspot on 22.08.11 10:04

Molly wrote:
@LG78 wrote:
Marian wrote:Maybe it's too early in the day for me but surely it was the wooden external shutters that were repaired? They were the ones which were famously quoted as being "jemmied" open by the "abductor" before it was proved that they weren't. I've not heard any mention of the Venetian blind type until now.

It is to early for you lol :)
The venetian blind was just an example to me to explain the word Blinds :) The translate doesnt tell wich blinds where fixed, I just assumed the where the ones in the childrens bedroom..? Anyway, my question was, why did they fix them on the May 1th? And why did they have to instruct the mccanns on how to use washingmachine?

It was the blinds in Gerry & Kate's bedroom that were fixed
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LUIS-FERRO.htm

I agree LG78 why the 1st of May. Your attachment was a requisition for work which would have been made out when the request was made by the McCanns I presume. So why wait till the 1st for this and also to be taught how to use the washing machine (I still find it hard to believe anyone needs instruction on that though unless Kate thought well while the men are here I will ask them - but why no washing earlier if washing was to be done)
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Post by Guest on 22.08.11 10:08

It was the pull handle that was broken used to open the external shutters from the inside, they cannot be opened from the outside. The shutters were fixed in the McCanns bedroom..............



TRANSLATION BY INES

Processos Vol III Pages 532-534
03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_632

03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_633
MISSING PAGE
03_VOLUME_IIIa_Page_634

Witness Statement
Mario Domingos Moreira

Date: 2007-05-08

Occupation: Handyman

Place of Work: OC





His services had been requested because the shutters in the bedroom at the back of the apartment, facing the Tapas restaurant were damaged and with the aim of providing the mother with instructions regarding the operation of the washing machine. When asked, he said that the damage to the blinds was centred on the pull-handle, limiting their opening. He says that this kind of damage is quite frequent, given the fact of the need for some initial force to raise the shutter, sometimes associated with a lack of knowledge of the mechanism on the part of some of the tourists, who keep applying force, contrary to what is required, and which results in the violent destruction of the respective handles.


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIO_MOREIRA.htm
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Post by pauline on 22.08.11 10:15

re the washing machine, I am technically challenged. I can work my own but other peoples, i would always ask them. On holiday, I have often had washing machines that challenged me but my husband is not so challenged and can always help.

At the beginning of the holiday, you wouldn't have dirty washing. I wouldn't normally do washing on holiday - certainly not for a week. I'd bring enough. And it was early season and not hot so you wouldn't have sweaty clothes. But we are all different and some people might wash on holiday for a week. We know that she washed something that had a small tea stain, and she washed curtains. Now I have never washed curtains on holiday in my life, but as i said we are all different!

Personally, I dont think debate on the finer points of the washing machine in the apartment, is relevant.
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Post by LG78 on 22.08.11 10:31

[/quote]
May I ask what country you hail from LG78? I always find it interesting to hear how people outside the United Kingdom came to hear about the McCann case.[/quote]

Im from Norway :) Heard about it in the news , and I followed the case,..I dont think we have the truth, if we did so many wouldnt feel different, To much strange things beeing done and said I think...
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Post by Guest on 22.08.11 10:56

@LG78 wrote:Anyone know why it was so important for them to have apartments as close as possible to the eachothers?
Out of all the friends they are the onlyone specifaying in their booking that they want aparments as cloce as possible to eachother...
[url=http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_335.jpg
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P2/02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_335.jpg[/quote[/url]]

Hi LG78

Matt Oldfiled says something about this, I will see if I can find it.
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Post by Guest on 22.08.11 11:01

According to Matt Oldfield, they were going to share child care at night. With someone missing every night, they probably did.

From Matt Oldfield's Rogatory interview:

And it was one of the things that made us think, maybe we shouldn't go, because when we were trying to book, it said it's a village, it's not enclosed, it's sort of apartments throughout the village and there isn't a baby listening service and we can't guarantee that you'll be together, because I think there were three centres, there's one up by the Millennium, there's one Ocean Club and then there was the one near the main entrance, and so we were concerned that if one member of the group, we were all going, oh perhaps we'll be the Billy no mates, the really unpopular ones will get stuck at the Millennium and we won't be able to, we won't be able to go out and visit our friends because we're not going to leave to go and see them and we won't be able to share child care and so it would be fairly difficult and it was a big issue because they couldn't guarantee, the couldn't allocate the rooms for us and they said it'll have to wait until you get in the resort but in the end it was sort of quite quiet and so they sort of could stick us really close together. I can't remember why I started talking about that?"
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Post by LG78 on 22.08.11 11:09

Stella wrote:According to Matt Oldfield, they were going to share child care at night. With someone missing every night, they probably did.

From Matt Oldfield's Rogatory interview:

And it was one of the things that made us think, maybe we shouldn't go, because when we were trying to book, it said it's a village, it's not enclosed, it's sort of apartments throughout the village and there isn't a baby listening service and we can't guarantee that you'll be together, because I think there were three centres, there's one up by the Millennium, there's one Ocean Club and then there was the one near the main entrance, and so we were concerned that if one member of the group, we were all going, oh perhaps we'll be the Billy no mates, the really unpopular ones will get stuck at the Millennium and we won't be able to, we won't be able to go out and visit our friends because we're not going to leave to go and see them and we won't be able to share child care and so it would be fairly difficult and it was a big issue because they couldn't guarantee, the couldn't allocate the rooms for us and they said it'll have to wait until you get in the resort but in the end it was sort of quite quiet and so they sort of could stick us really close together. I can't remember why I started talking about that?"

So they had planes to have child care then? Since that obviouse was a big thing conserning the booking? And then they suddenly changed their mind to not wanting strangers to look after them? Doesn't make sence at all..
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Post by Guest on 22.08.11 11:21

Matt slips up again later on just after the alarm is raised, by saying that he had to go 'up' to check on his daughter. But Matt had an apartment on the ground floor. This to me suggests that ALL of the children were already upstairs and the only apartment upstairs was the Payne's one. Which would also explain why David, Fiona and Dianne did not rush off immediately to make sure all of their children were still there.
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Post by pennylane on 22.08.11 16:46

Stella wrote:Matt slips up again later on just after the alarm is raised, by saying that he had to go 'up' to check on his daughter. But Matt had an apartment on the ground floor. This to me suggests that ALL of the children were already upstairs and the only apartment upstairs was the Payne's one. Which would also explain why David, Fiona and Dianne did not rush off immediately to make sure all of their children were still there.

Hi Stella, A few oddities - Page 5 260239

Could be a figure of speech because it was a slight uphill walk from the Tapas bar to the apartment? As in 'going down to the shops' or 'up to the pub.'
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Post by Daisy on 22.08.11 21:48

@tigger wrote:
@Daisy wrote:

Like Stella, I don't believe that the five staff are all liars/mistaken either. The girl on reception remembered them having breakfast there on at least 3 occasions; she describes the family, she remembered Madeleine being shy, cuddling her father, why on earth would she make this up?

Well, you see, that's where I have a problem. Maddie is described as anything but shy. 'giving her tuppence worth' and 'a screamer' and 'that girl could throw a tantrum', etc. mostly quotes from family.
So what I'm thinking is the same stand-in they used off and on all week. Perhaps Ella who can easily pass for Maddie, who was afraid of water one day, when Maddie loved water, according to Kate.
Or simply, that they did have breakfast at the flat. Breakfast doesn't exactly break the bank, bit of juice, coffee and cereal.
Otherwise, I see no problem either with the witnesses mistaking other clients for the McCanns. If only one of them thinks it's the McCanns, the others would naturally concur. I would, in that position, busy waitressing, noisy children.
Either way, I don't think if this is a lie, it is particularly important. Unless it is simply that Kate wants to draw our attention to her motherly person, looking after the children, etc. Or she want to re enforce her earlier statement that the Millenium was so much bother and so far away and the NO Buggies statement. I really don't think this bit is important.
Either they used a stand-in at the Millenium and this is just belts and braces, saying they weren't there. Just in case someone has a photograph or some other proof that the girl everyone thought was Maddie, turns out to be someone else's child.
I do think the silence about Chaplin's is important. It's right next to the church. The very church they had to ask the policeman to point out to them.

I agree that the witness statement I refer to doesn't describe the 'Madeleine' that almost everyone else does: "Madeleine was very shy and did not respond to her... Madeleine appeared to be very attached to her father and was always clinging on to him" No it doesn't sound like the same child at all. So, your theory that it could have been another child makes sense to me.

Cecilia Paula Dias Firmino do Carmo wasn't distacted 'busy waitressing noisy children' though tigger. She was employed as a Public Relations worker, to greet guests on their way into breakfast at the Millenium. It was her job to familiarise herself with the guests and their children. Now, whilst I can understand if she got 'look-a- like' children mixed up, I can't understand how she could mistake a whole family? Surely she was shown photographs of the McCanns to indentify them when giving her statement? None of the other adults resemble Gerry or Kate. Also, they were apparently the only family with 3 very young children, and twins! - even easier to recall.

Cecilia only worked at the breakfast slot (apart from weds evening when she recieved guest for a BBQ). Breakfast was only served at the Millenium. How else would she have know the McCanns if she hadn't seen them at breakfast? The one day they claimed to have eaten there, she wasn't on duty.

KM also makes a point of discrediting this witness account in her book. Note how she then cheekily uses this to justify 'conflicting recollections' of Murat and her tapas friends.

p.326 “A
member of staff at…the Millennium restaurant…said she saw us there
every morning having breakfast with the children. She described in
detail what a nice family we were and what a lovely relationship we had
with Madeleine …but we weren’t there. We had breakfast in the Millennium
only once, on our first morning…As I read these statements, it became
slightly less baffling to me that Robert Murat and the witnesses who
said they saw him on the night Madeleine was taken could all be so
certain of their conflicting recollections”.





____________________
“Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.”   

Unknown


“And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.” 

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Post by LG78 on 22.08.11 22:04


p.326 “A
member of staff at…the Millennium restaurant…said she saw us there
every morning having breakfast with the children. She described in
detail what a nice family we were and what a lovely relationship we had
with Madeleine …but we weren’t there. We had breakfast in the Millennium
only once, on our first morning…As I read these statements, it became
slightly less baffling to me that Robert Murat and the witnesses who
said they saw him on the night Madeleine was taken could all be so
certain of their conflicting recollections”.

And still she believes Jane Tanner ?




[/quote]
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Post by Gillyspot on 22.08.11 22:10

She not only believes JT she has had here own "reconstruction" of the events. From the Sun

"Desperate Kate also revealed she has turned amateur detective during return visits to the resort where her ordeal began in 2007. There she tries to get into the mind of the abductor.

She revealed: "I look at the apartment, I kind of step into that person's shoes - and I think, 'Where did you go?'

"I think it was someone who knew our movements. I don't think someone was passing by chance and took a child.

"I find it helpful, trying to work things out. I just want to try to understand it. I'm probably wasting my time but I just have this need to do it."

Kate got a friend to re-enact a sighting of a man holding a child, crossing the road near the apartment on the night Madeleine disappeared. The sighting was by Jane Tanner, one of the group holidaying with the McCanns. Kate said: "I got my friend to walk across the road at night. I said to her, 'I can see exactly what you're wearing'.

"Jane has been almost discredited, with people saying she couldn't have seen this person.

"But there are street lights there, you CAN see things."

As she stood on the same spot, Kate understood why Jane was feeling tormented because she had not challenged the man. Kate said: "She was actually quite close. I felt I could almost reach and stop him, could have saved Madeleine."


Of course Kate. We believe you LOL

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3568228/FOR-the-first-time-since-she-went-missing-Kate-McCann-opened-the-door-to-Madeleines-pretty-pink-bedroom-at-their-home-and-peeped-in.html
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Post by Daisy on 22.08.11 22:59

Another little oddity. No wonder they stopped Philemena giving interviews, she was always putting her foot in it.

"Kate and Gerry are loving parents; they tried so hard to have children. They had to undergo
IVF; Kate had difficult pregnancies.
"


Philomena McCann, BBC Radio interview with Nicky Campbell: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id250.html


“It was a really uncomplicated pregnancy. I had no sickness, nothing. It was
so easy. I swam every day until the day she was born, to keep us both
healthy..."


Kate McCann http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2199226.ece

____________________
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Post by Guest on 23.08.11 8:10

@pennylane wrote:
Stella wrote:Matt slips up again later on just after the alarm is raised, by saying that he had to go 'up' to check on his daughter. But Matt had an apartment on the ground floor. This to me suggests that ALL of the children were already upstairs and the only apartment upstairs was the Payne's one. Which would also explain why David, Fiona and Dianne did not rush off immediately to make sure all of their children were still there.
Hi Stella, A few oddities - Page 5 260239

Could be a figure of speech because it was a slight uphill walk from the Tapas bar to the apartment? As in 'going down to the shops' or 'up to the pub.'

I had thought about that pennylane, but if you read the previous sentence to that comment, you will see that he was already outside apartment 5a with everyone else at the time, which means he had already reached the apartments. That can only mean one thing. When he thought of 'up', it can only have been an upper apartment. The only other reason to explain this, is that it is all made up and he cocked up.

According to Fiona, they all got a 2 bedroom apartment. Which means Matt was not in G5B anyway.
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Post by pennylane on 23.08.11 9:11

Stella wrote:
@pennylane wrote:
Stella wrote:Matt slips up again later on just after the alarm is raised, by saying that he had to go 'up' to check on his daughter.But Matt had an apartment on the ground floor. This to me suggests that ALL of the children were already upstairs and the only apartment upstairs was the Payne's one. Which would also explain why David, Fiona and Dianne did not rush off immediately to make sure all of their children were still there.
Hi Stella, A few oddities - Page 5 260239

Could be a figure of speech because it was a slight uphill walk from the Tapas bar to the apartment? As in 'going down to the shops' or 'up to the pub.'

I had thought about that pennylane, but if you read the previous sentence to that comment, you will see that he was already outside apartment 5a with everyone else at the time, which means he had already reached the apartments. That can only mean one thing. When he thought of 'up', it can only have been an upper apartment. The only other reason to explain this, is that it is all made up and he cocked up.

According to Fiona, they all got a 2 bedroom apartment. Which means Matt was not in G5B anyway.

Good morning Stella, I favour your latter example.

I see what you mean, it is not a description one would normally use in such close proximity. However, since what they say is (imo) all fiction.... they tend to waffle a lot and over-egg their descriptions in attempt to give them more validity. Just look at all the hand movements and head bobbing from Kate; and Jane Tanner's ever changing, ever evolving story of the 'swarthy man.' I realise you feel differently, but it is my opinion that this was last minute planning that went pear shaped. Though I believe they are hiding premises or persons they associated with during the earlier part of the week.
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Post by pauline on 23.08.11 9:15

@Daisy wrote:Another little oddity. No wonder they stopped Philemena giving interviews, she was always putting her foot in it.

"Kate and Gerry are loving parents; they tried so hard to have children. They had to undergo
IVF; Kate had difficult pregnancies.
"


Philomena McCann, BBC Radio interview with Nicky Campbell: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id250.html


“It was a really uncomplicated pregnancy. I had no sickness, nothing. It was
so easy. I swam every day until the day she was born, to keep us both
healthy..."

Kate McCann http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2199226.ece


A really sickening article in the Sunday Times.

the tapas bar is now only '20 metres' away. She found Madeleine missing at 9 pm (!). And she says how happy Madeleine was in the childrens club and mentions some activities. yet she wouldn't consider leaving her children with these strangers(nannies) who were making her children happy in the day, giving the McCanns the chance to play tennis for hours and go jogging.

A thought. Philomena may be telling the truth as she knows it. Her information about the pregnancy and about other matters (eg smashed shutters) comes from Kate and Gerry. We know that they are not always truthful.

About this swimming up to the day she gave birth, does anyone know if this is possible? I cant swim so obviously I didn't swim with my pregnancies but I would have thought that swimming in the last couple of weeks of a pregnancy would be somewhat impractical.

Some people exagerate everything, and sometimes they dont realise how inaccurate they are. Some just lie to get attention. A few very minor things may have been described to Phil as a 'terrible pregnancy'. A close relative of mine had an IVF pregnancy last year and the actual pregnancy was relatively smooth. Her big issue was the constant worry that the pregnancy wouldn't last long enough for the baby to be viable. Kate doesn't seem to have that worry.
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Post by Guest on 23.08.11 9:39

Yes it was difficult getting through this article (can't blame The Sun this time either) without an overwhelming sick feeling. The invented quotes from Madeleine about having the best day ever were in place even then and I can't imagine two-year-old Amelie saying "I miss my sister".



As for swimming in late pregnancy, I have no experience of that myself but could it be similar to someone who is naturally obese? I have known people whose size restricts their life in many ways but swimming is something that they can still do.
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Post by Newintown on 23.08.11 13:21

[[size=12]quote="LG78"]
p.326 “A
member of staff at…the Millennium restaurant…said she saw us there
every morning having breakfast with the children. She described in
detail what a nice family we were and what a lovely relationship we had
with Madeleine …but we weren’t there. We had breakfast in the Millennium
only once, on our first morning…As I read these statements, it became
slightly less baffling to me that Robert Murat and the witnesses who
said they saw him on the night Madeleine was taken could all be so
certain of their conflicting recollections”.

And still she believes Jane Tanner ?



I remember when Madeleine first went missing, I think it was the 2nd or 3rd day, that the whole family went into breakfast (must have been the Millennium) with hundreds of the World's press following on behind. Kate's explanation was that "she wanted to keep things as normal as possible for the twins", so they must have been used to having breakfast at the Millennium.

This was when I started to have doubts about the whole "abduction" story, it didn't seem normal, that your daughter goes missing, then a day or two after you're walking into breakfast as if nothing has happened, with hundreds of people with cameras and microphones following. Her excuse was to use the twins, just as if they would care at barely 2 years old where they had their breakfast as long as they got some.



The McCanns looked as if they were enjoying every moment being pursued by the World's press, that's why I've queried everything they've done and said since then. They certainly didn't look like grief-stricken parents.
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Post by Juulcy on 11.09.11 22:10

i tried to find were the evidence is that Kate washed the curtains in app 5? If that is true it is really damning. Who does that on holiday???
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Post by Guest on 11.09.11 22:52

@Juulcy wrote:i tried to find were the evidence is that Kate washed the curtains in app 5? If that is true it is really damning. Who does that on holiday???

This from Joana's site........................

[snipped]

Blood on the curtains

Later at the Ocean Club, the use of the dogs ended up triggering a turnaround in the investigation.

As Sol could discover, the dogs detected cadaver odour behind a couch in the apartment’s living room, close to a window that leads to the resort’s back area.

This window had curtains that were removed and analysed by police, and a small blood sample was detected. Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.


http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html
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Post by jd on 12.09.11 0:05

candyfloss wrote:Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.[/i]

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html

Lets be real here....who ever washes walls and curtains in a holiday apartment, I mean come on

And who takes the very same clothes they wore to deal with dead bodies on holiday with them....I wasn't born yesterday. McCanns, please do not try to insult mine and others intelligence

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Post by PeterMac on 12.09.11 7:55

@jd wrote:
candyfloss wrote:Both the curtains and the wall where it was located at, had been washed.[/i]
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/01/madeleine-mccann-facts-in-beginning.html
Lets be real here....who ever washes walls and curtains in a holiday apartment, I mean come on
And who takes the very same clothes they wore to deal with dead bodies on holiday with them....I wasn't born yesterday. McCanns, please do not try to insult mine and others intelligence

Quite so. I used to have a holiday apartment in Nerja. The curtains were washed at the end of the season as part of the general "autumn cleaning" ritual - but not by me. the girls who did the laundry just aded them to the rest of the stuff.
It anyone HAD wanted the curtains washed, for perfectly proper reasons of spillage, soiling by children and so on, they would simply have told the girls, or the agent, and it would have been done within 24 hours.
Ditto the walls. If you are in a rented apartment you don't do these things yourself, you point at them when the cleaners come, and they do it.

The "same clothes", is simply not true. It was a desperate attempt by a family member to explain away the cadaver smell, which has backfired, like so many of the family's pronouncements.
It is also extremely unlikely that KM dealt with any dead bodies in the run up to the holiday. She was a part time GP, and they deal with people who walk into the surgery. In fact GP's 'deal' with very few dead bodies. Police and ambulance do most of the handling. A GP may be called to pronounce life extinct, which does not often involve physical touching, but merely the use of a Stethoscope. If they do need to touch, they would wear rubber gloves, and make sure they didn't get any other contamination on them. They do have to return to the surgery, and carry on dealing with the living, so that is of the utmost importance.

In any event the number of deaths in that practice in the week leading up to the holiday is a matter of public record.



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PeterMac
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