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Theory

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Re: Theory

Post by tigger on 08.06.12 13:03

@Gillyspot wrote:Basic consultant.s wage was £85,475 in 2007 http://www.hospitaldr.co.uk/blogs/our-news/consultant-contract-pay-uplift-undermined-by-sub-inflation-pay-rises

So together they were earning £120k before tax with mortgage of £24k per year (it was £2k per month). Hardly on their uppers so to speak.

Yes after tax about a 100 k or so I'd think, but in my experience there are lots of extras on top of those wages. I don't think Kate really worked 2 days a week - but even so, why these money troubles? Because the 'family' stated early on too that they were struggling and were helped out by other members of the family. This is before PdL. The above amounts probably come from Clarrie -they were posted around the time when it was made public that two payments had been made from the spin Fund.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on 08.06.12 13:14

@tigger wrote:
@jd wrote:They had a few days to get these posters made. How could anyone get posters made using an old image of your daughter onto photographic not sold in the area, within an hour of discovering she had disappeared and at 10pm at night. Not to mention the panic of her gone would only be of focus, let alone getting posters made on photographic not sold in the area...Huge slip up here

Its most likely someone like murat, Malinka‎ or john gereghty who would have been able to make these posters during the day. Wednesday is the missing day they tend to skip over in their statements

And needing to cover up Maddies fate depends on how she met it and other factors about her. They won't even give her medical records. Clearly whatever happened caused them to having to need to cover it up and create an abduction story so there will never be a body

For me, there was no real reason to cover up an accident. They could simply have said they were there when it happened. The T7 lied for them about the abduction and the neglect, why not for a much lesser 'crime?'.
They could say that they took turns of half an hour each or anything. There wouldn't even have been any interrogation of waiters, nothing.
If they could call on Gordon Brown and the ambassador and get them to work their magic so very quickly - no trouble getting them to move a 'sick' child in a
private plane to the UK for emergency help. No trouble imo, but no Fund.

Their finances : from McCannfiles: february 2008.

Kate was said to have earned £35,000 a year working two days a week at Latham House Medical Practice in Melton Mowbray, Leics. Heart specialist Gerry, 39, also took extended leave after four-year-old Maddie was snatched from their holiday apartment in Portugal's Praia da Luz on May 3 last year.

They paid some of the mortgage on their home in Rothley from the Find Madeleine fund until they were named official suspects Gerry returned to his £75,000-ayear job at Glenfield Hospital, Leics, part-time in November and went full-time last month.
unquote.

Doesn't actually seem a lot after tax and paying a mortgage of around a 1000 a month. Surely a consultant earns more than that?

Line in bold - not if she already had been dead for a few hours when they got back, because an autopsy would find the time of death, and also there would have been many witnesses seeing them in the tapas, the staff and so on ... So they simply couldnt do anything else then cover it up to have a chance of not beeing jailed and lynched by people, losing the other two children etc....

I see the signs pointed for pre planned, but still I lean to the accident earlier in week theory.... All the pictures relized from PDL , except pool and tennis photo( who are very suspisious imo) we only have pictures of her from the first day of the holliday.. Then tennis and pool photo arrived later in the news as proof that she was alive the day she vanished. why if not trying to hide something ? why take only one picture of your child those days ? Seems not right imo..

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Re: Theory

Post by sweetex on 08.06.12 13:16

Moa wrote:The photo printed, wasnt it one of the staffs printer and paper that where used ? And this is prove in the PJ files if I remember right? And why use a older picture? Easier for them to look at in that moment, and it really didnt matter because they knew she was dead, so it didnt matter what picture the public got?

Im leaning more towards accident earlier in the week, than a long pre planned thing I must say... The truth is usually the simplest solution...

@Moa

If I read the link about the posters in the PJ files correctly, they have identified the ones printed by the staff's printer as well as the ones printed by reception. Also (I think the lady from the supermarket) also printed and made copies for them.

But there were still 4 poster size prints that was not printed by any of the above.

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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on 08.06.12 13:20

@sweetex wrote:
Moa wrote:The photo printed, wasnt it one of the staffs printer and paper that where used ? And this is prove in the PJ files if I remember right? And why use a older picture? Easier for them to look at in that moment, and it really didnt matter because they knew she was dead, so it didnt matter what picture the public got?

Im leaning more towards accident earlier in the week, than a long pre planned thing I must say... The truth is usually the simplest solution...

@Moa

If I read the link about the posters in the PJ files correctly, they have identified the ones printed by the staff's printer as well as the ones printed by reception. Also (I think the lady from the supermarket) also printed and made copies for them.

But there were still 4 poster size prints that was not printed by any of the above.

Okey, is it in the PJ files about this 4 poster? Cant say I have heard of that before..
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Re: Theory

Post by sweetex on 08.06.12 13:36

Moa wrote:
@sweetex wrote:
Moa wrote:The photo printed, wasnt it one of the staffs printer and paper that where used ? And this is prove in the PJ files if I remember right? And why use a older picture? Easier for them to look at in that moment, and it really didnt matter because they knew she was dead, so it didnt matter what picture the public got?

Im leaning more towards accident earlier in the week, than a long pre planned thing I must say... The truth is usually the simplest solution...

@Moa

If I read the link about the posters in the PJ files correctly, they have identified the ones printed by the staff's printer as well as the ones printed by reception. Also (I think the lady from the supermarket) also printed and made copies for them.

But there were still 4 poster size prints that was not printed by any of the above.

Okey, is it in the PJ files about this 4 poster? Cant say I have heard of that before..

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/POSTERS.htm

This was discussed before - I am trying to get the link for it but yes it is in the PJ files
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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on 08.06.12 13:44

@sweetex wrote:
Moa wrote:
@sweetex wrote:
Moa wrote:The photo printed, wasnt it one of the staffs printer and paper that where used ? And this is prove in the PJ files if I remember right? And why use a older picture? Easier for them to look at in that moment, and it really didnt matter because they knew she was dead, so it didnt matter what picture the public got?

Im leaning more towards accident earlier in the week, than a long pre planned thing I must say... The truth is usually the simplest solution...

@Moa

If I read the link about the posters in the PJ files correctly, they have identified the ones printed by the staff's printer as well as the ones printed by reception. Also (I think the lady from the supermarket) also printed and made copies for them.

But there were still 4 poster size prints that was not printed by any of the above.

Okey, is it in the PJ files about this 4 poster? Cant say I have heard of that before..

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/POSTERS.htm

This was discussed before - I am trying to get the link for it but yes it is in the PJ files

Ty :)
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Re: Theory

Post by sweetex on 08.06.12 13:50

Moa wrote:
@sweetex wrote:
Moa wrote:
@sweetex wrote:
Moa wrote:The photo printed, wasnt it one of the staffs printer and paper that where used ? And this is prove in the PJ files if I remember right? And why use a older picture? Easier for them to look at in that moment, and it really didnt matter because they knew she was dead, so it didnt matter what picture the public got?

Im leaning more towards accident earlier in the week, than a long pre planned thing I must say... The truth is usually the simplest solution...

@Moa

If I read the link about the posters in the PJ files correctly, they have identified the ones printed by the staff's printer as well as the ones printed by reception. Also (I think the lady from the supermarket) also printed and made copies for them.

But there were still 4 poster size prints that was not printed by any of the above.

Okey, is it in the PJ files about this 4 poster? Cant say I have heard of that before..

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/POSTERS.htm

This was discussed before - I am trying to get the link for it but yes it is in the PJ files

Ty :)

Some if was discussed here too. On the first two pages:

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t5021-do-not-muzzle-the-ox-that-treads-the-corn
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Which Theory

Post by roy rovers on 08.06.12 13:55

I have a problem in that there are two plausible but mutually exclusive theories.

The first of these is that something happened early in the holiday that explains the phone activity, the movements of Murat and the lack of any holiday photographs of Maddie. In this scenario the Smith sighting is a 'red herring'.

The second of these assumes something closer to the date and time of the supposed 'abduction' as the posts above suggest. In this scenario Murat is a 'red herring'.

My problem is that since I am obviously wrong about one of these - maybe I am wrong about both.

Does anyone share this bewilderment?

Back to the obvious errors in the statements to get some 'firm ground'.
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Re: Theory

Post by tigger on 08.06.12 14:45

@roy rovers wrote:I have a problem in that there are two plausible but mutually exclusive theories.

The first of these is that something happened early in the holiday that explains the phone activity, the movements of Murat and the lack of any holiday photographs of Maddie. In this scenario the Smith sighting is a 'red herring'.

The second of these assumes something closer to the date and time of the supposed 'abduction' as the posts above suggest. In this scenario Murat is a 'red herring'.

My problem is that since I am obviously wrong about one of these - maybe I am wrong about both.

Does anyone share this bewilderment?

Back to the obvious errors in the statements to get some 'firm ground'.

You think you are clever and wish to convince a foreign police force of an abduction that didn't happen:
You provide them with 'evidence'
The shutters open, the props: blanket and cuddlecat on the tidy bed. - proof the child could not have walked out (patio doors came later as did the front door)
child would never leave without cuddlecat. (brand new looking prop never seen in photographs)
The witnesses:
The man seen by JT - sighting by a close friend - will not carry a lot of weight with police.
A sighting by an independent witness - will carry far more weight .
The JT sighting - well the less said the better adjusted as the memory of the observer improved over time
The Smith sighting - a disaster - the area is the busiest part of PdL not one but nine observant Irish people, instead of the projected single or pair of tourists likely to come out of a pub. I think Gerry knew PdL well enough and it was imperative to be seen by a stranger. However, the Smiths' evidence didn't surface for a long time, the McCanns doubled the distance from 5a to where he was seen (it's about 800 meters) and initially disregarded the testimony.

Imo it was definitely Gerry who walked through PdL with a live - borrowed child. The pyjama top had long sleeves, Maddie's pyjamas had short sleeves - thus they contradicted their own evidence.
On the bed in 5a are a pair of cream/beige trousers in the first photographs, it looks as if Gerry hurriedly changed - probably on returning from PdL.
Imo the report home of 'It's a disaster, a disaster', referred to all the things that had gone wrong that night.
Imo too, Murat is far from a red herring. There is recent evidence that Murat and McCann knew each other. Murat could have arranged the removal and temporary hiding place of the body, I think that happened about the 2nd of May, probably quite early and I think she died sometime on the 1st at the latest.

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Re: Theory

Post by mira2 on 08.06.12 23:04

The beauty of the net is that it is unregulated, naturally that has its draw backs in that it becomes a total menace , for instance its unregulated status has given given rise to a generation or 2 who have been failed by the system.

WE have to take a step back and be united in our voice that the system that we are paying into is not fit for practice.

An example:

Mr Obama current head of the New World Order wants the wider world to know that the USA is acting as the worlds policeman (after all they are the superpower) and they do whatever takes their fancy regardless of human rights infringements to bulk up their mission. It is of no importance to the little clique who control the agenda what effect their greed for power and whatever takes their fancy will have on future generations to come. Whats keeps these jerks in power is the media outlets who are part and parcel of the mass corruption going on in our name at our expense with no intention than serving the best interests of a few Jerks.

End of the day it is no point blaming these misfits for the ruination of our planet, they are where they are because WE put them there. We do have a choice as to how we elect, I know its a dim one, but it is only dim because WE cannot be bothered enough as a society to speak out about matters that effect generations to come.

Gerry and Kate Mc Cann as world ambassadors for childrens welfare here we come

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Re: Theory

Post by roy rovers on 09.06.12 23:03

Tigger - I like your 'composite' theory that links the strange events throughout the holiday and, on the 'balance of probabilities', makes most sense to me. It would be interesting to see a 'unified theory' that members could debate and amend based on 'the balance of probabilites'. I'd start it but I have insufficient time or knowledge.
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Re: Theory

Post by tigger on 10.06.12 6:28

@roy rovers wrote:Tigger - I like your 'composite' theory that links the strange events throughout the holiday and, on the 'balance of probabilities', makes most sense to me. It would be interesting to see a 'unified theory' that members could debate and amend based on 'the balance of probabilites'. I'd start it but I have insufficient time or knowledge.

Thank you and what a wonderful idea 'a grand unified theory' such as the one Einstein was looking for!
But you have pinpointed the crux of the matter: if she had an accident - even if she was discovered hours later - it could have been easily covered up by the same powers that interfered with the proper course of justice right from the start.
All that was really required was the suppression of a Post Mortem. Hell of a lot easier than the circus created by the abduction.
Tapas would have lied happily about the McCanns always having one adult with her. All that would have happened is a short article in the local paper and a caution to watch the tiled floors in holiday apartments.
There was no earthly reason other than their 'wider agenda' to stage an abduction.

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Re: Theory

Post by Ribisl on 10.06.12 7:17

@tigger wrote:
@roy rovers wrote:Tigger - I like your 'composite' theory that links the strange events throughout the holiday and, on the 'balance of probabilities', makes most sense to me. It would be interesting to see a 'unified theory' that members could debate and amend based on 'the balance of probabilites'. I'd start it but I have insufficient time or knowledge.

Thank you and what a wonderful idea 'a grand unified theory' such as the one Einstein was looking for!
But you have pinpointed the crux of the matter: if she had an accident - even if she was discovered hours later - it could have been easily covered up by the same powers that interfered with the proper course of justice right from the start.
All that was really required was the suppression of a Post Mortem. Hell of a lot easier than the circus created by the abduction.
Tapas would have lied happily about the McCanns always having one adult with her. All that would have happened is a short article in the local paper and a caution to watch the tiled floors in holiday apartments.
There was no earthly reason other than their 'wider agenda' to stage an abduction.
Yes, a brilliant idea, except I don't think it would ever work on this case because there are too many inconsistencies, some wholly contradictory, we can never have a core thread running through it. It's more like a bush than a tree with many branches coming off its central trunk.

PS I really wish I could take a peaceful walk through a forest like Hummingbird, but since there is no forest in sight I am off to bash a few tennis balls instead. Equally therapeutic, but in a noisier, more Gerry kind of way, I suppose.

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Re: Theory

Post by FH on 11.06.12 14:07

I'm not a fan of it being pre-planned for the main reason that it is a complete shambles. They are allegedly intelligent people and one would assume that if it were pre-planned they would have done their homework properly. Researched what kind of questions they would be asked and what kind of evidence would be looked for. They would have staged the scene properly and had answers that made sense. They would have had a proper time line with far less contradictory things in it. They would have made sure there were photos and evidence of her presence. Planted hair around the appartment, had a toothbrush with her DNA on it etc........ IMO it all looks like it was done in a complete rush and the story was put together totally piecemeal and really badly. I admit I don't know where the posters came from, perhaps the paper was already in the printer, or why they had a USB with an old photo on it, but perhaps they hadn't bothered to take any photos of her on holiday and when they needed a photo they realised there was an old ne on the USB stick that was still in Kate's handbag/Gerry's pocket. If it was planned, then surely you would have had an up to date photo?

WRT the lack of grief which seems totally bizarre to the rest of us, IMO that is not necessarily an indication of pre-planning, it is a response typical in narcissism. Narcissists are the centre of their own universe and no matter what happens (even the death of a loved one) it is all about them. They are perfect, they are never at fault, it is always someone else's that is toblame and they cover their own backs first. It's a well recognised psychological condition. They do not grieve like we grieve.

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Re: Theory

Post by david_uk on 11.06.12 14:46

I do not for a minute think anything was pre-planned either!. They would of got the most simple elements right if it was! like the timelines, I also dont for minute think they could get any of the Tapas lot involved on a Pre-planned scenario!.An accident with implecations for the others, maybe..pre-planned with the tapas 7...nah

Would also add that I recently watched the footage of Kate shown on the Oprah show, along with their reactions on the show. I felt very sorry them and I think it was genuine tears of remorse and Grief shown by both of them. If they covered up an accident I beleive they really wish now that they hadnt. I also think that it if they have covered something up it will just become to much for one them one day.

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Re: Theory

Post by aiyoyo on 11.06.12 14:57

I am always of the opinion it was not pre-med, but what to make of the Yard assembly of a murder-quad team then? Surely they could have said a homicide team instead of a murder team?

I am left now wondering ...hmmm....my conviction of belief is swayed somewhat....surely murder means pre-meditation, else isnt it termed manslaughter? Maybe Tigger has nailed it.


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2/3

Post by aniandr on 11.06.12 20:51

Was madeleine seen ón the 2 ore 3? Any pictures? Videoes? Anything digitally dated as a proof And doesnt come from anyone in the group?

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Still a potential "live" theory?

Post by justathought on 19.10.13 17:39

Seems recent events have done nothing to damage this theory? might even be that they have confirmed it may be a credible one. 
JT's sighting now out of the equation.
Mr Oldfield's "evidence" as to his check seeming more and more under suspicion. stranger allowed to check on children, didn't even walk two more steps to enter further into the room, but saw an unoccupied bed by the window, he was sure it was not Madeleine's bed? the sound of children "stiring" from their sleep is a good one, not hearing silence.
plus, Mr Oldfield could not have seen the twins in their cots from where he was stood, work the maths. he would have also cast a shadow into the bedroom from the living room light to make it almost impossible to discern things.

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the view from the door

Post by worriedmum on 19.10.13 19:00

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Re: Theory

Post by Newintown on 19.10.13 20:05

@justathought wrote:Seems recent events have done nothing to damage this theory? might even be that they have confirmed it may be a credible one. 
JT's sighting now out of the equation.
Mr Oldfield's "evidence" as to his check seeming more and more under suspicion. stranger allowed to check on children, didn't even walk two more steps to enter further into the room, but saw an unoccupied bed by the window, he was sure it was not Madeleine's bed? the sound of children "stiring" from their sleep is a good one, not hearing silence.
plus, Mr Oldfield could not have seen the twins in their cots from where he was stood, work the maths. he would have also cast a shadow into the bedroom from the living room light to make it almost impossible to discern things.
I said that a long, long time ago but everyone ignored my post.  There was no way that Oldfield could have see the twin in the right hand cot unless he had walked some way into the room to look over the back panel of the cot which was solid wood, if he had done that he would have seen that Madeleine's bed on the left hand side was empty (if she'd been "abducted" at the time).

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Re: Theory

Post by justathought on 19.10.13 21:13

@Newintown wrote:
@justathought wrote:Seems recent events have done nothing to damage this theory? might even be that they have confirmed it may be a credible one. 
JT's sighting now out of the equation.
Mr Oldfield's "evidence" as to his check seeming more and more under suspicion. stranger allowed to check on children, didn't even walk two more steps to enter further into the room, but saw an unoccupied bed by the window, he was sure it was not Madeleine's bed? the sound of children "stiring" from their sleep is a good one, not hearing silence.
plus, Mr Oldfield could not have seen the twins in their cots from where he was stood, work the maths. he would have also cast a shadow into the bedroom from the living room light to make it almost impossible to discern things.
I said that a long, long time ago but everyone ignored my post.  There was no way that Oldfield could have see the twin in the right hand cot unless he had walked some way into the room to look over the back panel of the cot which was solid wood, if he had done that he would have seen that Madeleine's bed on the left hand side was empty (if she'd been "abducted" at the time).
newintown
You were right and as things stand still right in your assumption.
a person, took it upon themselvs to "allegedly" do a physical check. different from a walk  by and listening out. when the MCCanns "alledgedly" had always checked all week. apart from the 75 minute Mrs Fenn cried episode. big responsibility. 
he either didnt carry out the check at all, so didnt witness anything. felt compounded to make up a story that covered all the bases he knew were true. twins alive at the time of his so called check. but circumspect as to Madeleine's presence
or he did carry out the inspection, and saw Madeleine was not there. 
ps maybe he saw the twins were ok from seeing their breath/ that cant be right, it was warm enough for Madeleine to sleep on top of her covers

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Re: Theory

Post by Okeydokey on 21.10.13 0:29

@Newintown wrote:
@justathought wrote:Seems recent events have done nothing to damage this theory? might even be that they have confirmed it may be a credible one. 
JT's sighting now out of the equation.
Mr Oldfield's "evidence" as to his check seeming more and more under suspicion. stranger allowed to check on children, didn't even walk two more steps to enter further into the room, but saw an unoccupied bed by the window, he was sure it was not Madeleine's bed? the sound of children "stiring" from their sleep is a good one, not hearing silence.
plus, Mr Oldfield could not have seen the twins in their cots from where he was stood, work the maths. he would have also cast a shadow into the bedroom from the living room light to make it almost impossible to discern things.
I said that a long, long time ago but everyone ignored my post.  There was no way that Oldfield could have see the twin in the right hand cot unless he had walked some way into the room to look over the back panel of the cot which was solid wood, if he had done that he would have seen that Madeleine's bed on the left hand side was empty (if she'd been "abducted" at the time).
Agreed - I've said it elsewhere many times... MO's account is completely unconvincing. I remember when checking on my children if they were ill, you would be looking for the reassuring rise and fall of the ribcage in your child in semi-darkness...you have to get pretty close. Not the 6 or 7 feet away he claims to be in the Loach Travesty mockumentary.

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Re: Theory

Post by Naz_Nomad on 10.06.14 23:56

@Garth wrote:Yeh, wot a load of crap!
 
I have a far simpler one.
 
Two abductors watch apartment.
 
McCanns go to dine.  Abuctors wait.....one enters via patio door, the other watches over and then goes around to front. Person inside drugs child with sedative but then disturbed by GM.......hides in closet. GM leaves, abductor opens window, picks up child and passes her to accomplice. Accomplice makes away. Abductor leaves via front door. JT spots accomplice with child. Accomplice gets child out of sight before making way to other side of PDL but is then spotted by Smiths.
 
Uncomplicated and fits exactly what we know. Even allowing for the dumb PJ.
 
Simple!
 
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Re: Theory

Post by Guest on 11.06.14 8:20

Memories of the lovely Garth come flooding back!

I wonder whatever happened to him. As far as I know, he isn't on a soapbox anywhere proclaiming his support for the McCanns.
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Re: Theory

Post by sami on 11.06.14 8:26

No Fate Worse Than De'Ath wrote:Memories of the lovely Garth come flooding back!

I wonder whatever happened to him. As far as I know, he isn't on a soapbox anywhere proclaiming his support for the McCanns.


He got a job writing scripts for Ripleys Believe it Or Not, all thanks to his post above.   laughat

sami

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