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The Shutters

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Re: The Shutters

Post by RBxHN on 17.05.11 19:12

@PeterMac wrote:
@RBxHN wrote:Could the PJ have been instructed to say that Kate's fingerprints were the only ones identifiable as they were trying to pin the blame on her.......which we all know!
Food for thought?
No. And no.

Any chance you could expand on why you're so sure? Thanks.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 17.05.11 19:23

@PeterMac wrote:Shutters. Kate says they were Up, then someone, either Kate or Gerry, or a Tapasnik pulled them Down so they could all go and put their fingerprints all over them and try to push them Up, smudging any fingerprints of any possible abuctor in the process.
So the shutters got moved twice. One Up by the alleged perp, and once Down by the destroyers of the scene.
{Someone help. Are they Down when the police arive, and if so, do K and G explain why in their statements. I can't find the reference.}

Now consider. Mrs Fenn, the previous night heard the child crying for hours. She then states that she heard a parent come in by the patio door. She heard the Patio door open. Patio doors are on a rolling slider mechanism and are relatively quiet. But Mrs Fenn heard the patio door open.

The following night no one heard the shutters being pulled up, or forced, nor did anyone report hearing them being lowered again so people could play with them. Anyone who has been to Southern europe knows that shuters of this type make a loud and very distinctive noise.
Do the Tapas7 statements talk about fooling around outside. If not, why not.
The Curious Incident of the Shutters in the Night-time, perhaps.

“And this shows that sometimes people want to be stupid and they do not want to know the truth.
And it shows that something called Occam’s razor is true. And Occam’s razor is not a razor that men shave with but a Law, and it says…
No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary.”




PeterMac, if you look at the first few posts in this thread, there are statements from people showing that 3 of the Tapas 9 messed with the shutters. Diane Webster admits to messing with them and twisting them.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 17.05.11 20:24

Transcript from the CNN interview on this link below in which he states that he fiddled with the shutters. Too long to c & p.

Tuesday, 17 May 2011
Piers Morgan interview with the McCanns May 2011. More anomalies


http://littlemorsals.blogspot.com/


This is the bit I was talking about in my original first post on this thread.............................


GM...
And I ran into the bedroom. And I found it just as Kate described. And when I saw that window pushed wide open and the shutter up, which we'd left down the whole week, it was horrible. And I -- lowered the shutter and I went through the front door. And I was able to lift the shutter from outside which –
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Re: The Shutters

Post by LittleMissMolly on 17.05.11 20:51

@PeterMac wrote:
candyfloss wrote:
It does seem incredible that intelligent people, would be fiddling the the shutters, when they all seemed positive an abductor had used this window as the point of entry or exit or both!! And yet we had stories, of the bungling police, smoking and dropping cigarette ash etc.

I think 'incredible' is a good word to use here. Have done this to explain the fact that the shutters were down when the police arrived ? If they were.

Sylvia Batista's statement is that they were down when she arrived in the apartment ahead of the GNR thumbsup

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 17.05.11 20:57

It's rather odd too, that with 3 of them raising the noisy shutter, (which the News of the World tried in their investigation) plus the abductor, the twins slept soundly. One of the tapas 7 aludes to this in their statement. I think it may have been DW, I posted it earlier in the thread.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by PeterMac on 18.05.11 7:33

Thanks for those links. The whole thing is so horribly confused I had lost sight of the "fact" that Gerry himself says he shut them, and then ran outside to play with them. Why were his prints not on them ? Strange, because there would have been an entirely logical explanation if they had been. But they weren't.
He says he could raise them. One of the other said she couldn't. Anyone who knows that type of shutter knows you can't. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by RBxHN on 18.05.11 7:55

And so, I go back to my original point regarding the shutters, are we to believe that ALL finger prints had been found or moreover, were disclosed as to being found?

Because if not, as I have speculated...............it answers a lot of questions which seem to be causing a lot of confusion!

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 18.05.11 9:53

@PeterMac wrote:Thanks for those links. The whole thing is so horribly confused I had lost sight of the "fact" that Gerry himself says he shut them, and then ran outside to play with them. Why were his prints not on them ? Strange, because there would have been an entirely logical explanation if they had been. But they weren't.
He says he could raise them. One of the other said she couldn't. Anyone who knows that type of shutter knows you can't. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE.

They are all lying PeterMac, don't worry.

From the photo taken by forensics AFTER they had used dragons blood ALL OVER the entire outside of the shutter, ONLY 3 finger prints were found. As confirmed by the various photo's and film footage taken.

British experts confirmed that they had come from the same hand, of someone standing inside the property and pushing up.

One person and one person only touched that shutter.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 18.05.11 9:57



This is the earliest photo taken of the shutter, presumably by Barreiras as he arrived first with a camera and would not have touched anything before forensics had arrived.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 18.05.11 10:01



All areas potentially touched by hands have been swiped.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 18.05.11 10:03

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

From outside of the external blinds, i.e., the shutter,
3 inadequate prints were found.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 18.05.11 10:06




3 prints off 1 hand, the evidence never lies.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 18.05.11 10:09

@RBxHN wrote:And so, I go back to my original point regarding the shutters, are we to believe that ALL finger prints had been found?

Yes. The above photographic evidence proves this.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by ROSA on 19.05.11 23:37

Were the doors or window forced?
Members of Madeleine's family said the shutter on the street window was forced, and police have fingerprinted it. However, the Mark Warner holiday company said there was no sign of a forced break-in. A kidnapper could have come through the street window and left via the street door. It is unlikely he or she would have entered or left via the French windows, because they face the tapas bar and the rest of the complex.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 20.05.11 8:42

@ROSA wrote:Were the doors or window forced?

No. As confirmed by MW, Goncalo Amaral and the PJ.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by ROSA on 07.06.11 14:15

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Re: The Shutters

Post by Atilliator on 07.06.11 16:03

I am surprised the Portuguese police have not picked this up. Maybe they have but are not saying. In her initial statement to the police, KM does not mention the bedroom door blowing shut. This happens in later statements. In one she says that the french windows were closed when this happened. Sorry, but in order to create enough force to close the bedroom door, the french windows at the back would have to have been open. Either KM had been taking lessons in statement embellishment from Jane Tanner, or 5A has a poltergeist.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by lj on 07.06.11 16:45

The first thing which is really odd, is that in interviews, the McCanns had said they were conscious about not disturbing evidence. Now surely, if you walked into an apartment and the window was wide open and the shutter up, you would of course assume someone had broken in, only natural. But what is so strange is, that you would know that the perpatrator had done this. So it begs the question...............

Indeed, they are either very dumb,or they lie, or they are so arrogant that they think we will swallow all that just because they say it.

I think it is all 3.

Dangerous combination: dumb, lying, arrogant parents. A lot can go wrong.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by lj on 07.06.11 16:52

@PeterMac wrote:Thanks for those links. The whole thing is so horribly confused I had lost sight of the "fact" that Gerry himself says he shut them, and then ran outside to play with them. Why were his prints not on them ? Strange, because there would have been an entirely logical explanation if they had been. But they weren't.
He says he could raise them. One of the other said she couldn't. Anyone who knows that type of shutter knows you can't. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE.

These shutters are called "hurricane curtains" where I live for the reason that it is virtually impossible to force them open from outside.

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Re: The Shutters

Post by ROSA on 11.06.11 1:09



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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 11.06.11 9:12

Why did the story change from the curtains being open, and the window open, to the curtains being closed and going whoosh with the draught created? There must a good reason. Is it because they realised that MO had said he stood in the doorway and could see the two cots, in which case he would have spotted the open window. Oh how those stories change.

What sort of window was it in the bedroom? Was it a slide or push open one, cos KM says the window was pushed right open.
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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 11.06.11 9:50




Looking at this picture, the RH side slides over to the LH side and you can see they have lifted that whole panel out of the frame, which also confirms that it slides.

I thought in the early days Kate said that the window was right UP ?
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The Broken Shutters

Post by ROSA on 14.06.11 2:03

The broken shutters: a persistent campaign of manipulation

"Trish Cameron and Philomena McCann, Gerry’s sisters, Jill Renwick, a family friend and Jon Corner, Madeleine’s godparent were important key players in the McCann’s campaign of manipulation and distortion, since the early hours. Despite the clear and blunt denials of John Hill, the Ocean resort manager, Portuguese police and witnesses, they insisted that the shutters of apartment 5A were “jemmied” or “broken” and – small but interesting detail – the door, which had been locked, was open.”


“Trish Cameron, Mr. McCann’s sister, from Dumbarton, near Glasgow, said it appeared that someone had been spying on Madeleine and had targeted her for abduction. The front door was open, the window had been tampered with, the shutters had been jimmied open and Madeleine was missing,” she said. “Nothing had been touched in the apartment, no valuables taken, no passports. They think someone must have come in the window and gone out the door with her.”


“(…) the manager at the Ocean Club (…) [John] Hill said that despite the report by a family friend that the shutters to the couple's apartment were broken, there was no sign that anyone had forced their way in while the McCanns ate at the tapas restaurant 200 yards away.”


“But family friend Jill Renwick told GMTV the McCanns were certain that Madeleine has been abducted. "They were just watching the hotel room and going back every half-hour and the shutters had been broken open and they had gone into the room and taken Madeleine," she said.”


“Trish Cameron, Mr. McCann’s sister, said she received a telephone call from her 39-year-old brother, a consultant cardiologist, who was "hysterical and crying his eyes out". She said: "They had put the kids to bed at 7pm and checked on them every half an hour as they had dinner nearby with the rest of the party. Gerry said the window was open, the shutters broken and the door, which had been locked, hanging open.”


“Philomena McCann said: "(..) We think they were being watched and this was premeditated. Gerry is worried that may have happened. Some people may ask why they left the children alone in the apartment but it was locked.”


“Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs. McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught. He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.' "They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage."First they saw one of the window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone.”


“(…) Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with. Gerry and Kate McCann would have used the patio doors as they checked on their daughter and her twin siblings during their meal near the Mark Warner holiday complex swimming pool and it is these doors that were left unsecured. The McCanns and all their friends on the holiday left their patio doors open throughout the evenings for fear of fire. Mr. Kirby told The Mail on Sunday: (...) The window shutters are not an issue. Their mechanism makes them almost impossible to open. The door was left unlocked. They did that every night."


"Prof David Barclay, one of Britain's top forensic consultants speaking on Martin Brunt's documentary 'The Mystery of Madeleine McCann’, aired on 24 December 2007: "I think it's impossible for somebody to get in and out, through that window without leaving a forensic trace. Apart from anything else, the window sills in that area are covered in green lichen. The minute you try and scrape over the window sills you would have left marks and we know that the scenes of crime lady, the next morning, was looking for exactly that."




“Interestingly, Clarence Mitchell's statement about the McCanns reversal of their 'break in' story, came one week after Dispatches aired the documentary 'Searching For Madeleine' on 18 October 2007. In that documentary, it was effectively proved that there was no way anybody could break into the apartment and leave no forensic trace or damage to the lightweight aluminium shutters, which are covered with a fine coating of polyurethane paint which marks extremely easily.”

“They also tested the thumb prints, that showed up under the red dust of the forensic fingerprint powder, and proved the prints came from somebody moving the shutter from inside the apartment.”




“Again, Prof Dave Barclay said: "We must be very careful that we're not saying this is actually staging but it's difficult to see how anybody could have interfered with those shutters, from outside, without leaving some trace. In fact, having looked at them, I think it's almost impossible."

Publicada por Paulo Reis em
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Re: The Shutters

Post by Guest on 15.06.11 9:59

Goncalo Amaral confirms that the window had been cleaned on the 2nd of May (still looking for a written document, if one exists). Kate in her book said she left the curtains, window and shutter closed all week, from the first night on the 28th April. How then could Kate's prints have got on the window?

“Second inconsistency is that the window was cleaned on the previous day by the Ocean Club employees, and the only finger prints (thumb and middle finger) that were found were the ones of Kate and it was evident through the position of the prints that the window was opened from the inside, to the left. Kate McCann stated that she never touched the window”.

Gonçalo Amaral and Hernâni Carvalho on TVI at 12:30pm

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id139.html
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Re: The Shutters

Post by ROSA on 10.08.11 0:22

“Kate said the shutters of the room were smashed.”

(b) Brian Healy Grandfather:

“Gerry told me when they went back the shutters to the room were broken, they were jemmied up and she was gone,”

“There was no evidence of a break-in,” said Mr Mitchell (The McCanns’ spokesperson – Irish Independent, 25 October 2007).
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