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Photographs and memories

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Post by tigger on 05.03.12 10:56

They're all in summer dress, there are about 15 plates on the table for that one cake? Not going to be big servings?
Shouldn't the candles be lit for the twins to blow out?
Maddie's left arm looks as if it's plastic, possible that and Kate's hand are photoshopped in there. Because Maddie's left hand is a fist and the other is open, not a natural thing to do for anyone. The arm and Kate's hand could have been pasted in which explains the almost impossible angle of Kate's right shoulder. That should be further forward to allow the elbow to go further back.
Black line around Maddie's sock (mirroring in photoshop is easy)
An inexplicable fuzzy straight line along Kate's right trouser leg.
I think the women really is holding Maddie but not sure where because she should be casting a shadow to her left if the light source is the same for Kate. Both shadows could at a pinch be on the wall but should be in the same direction.
What is interesting when blown up that Kate seems to wear a ring on her right middle finger and another on the left ring finger. Both rather large rings which look masculine. Could these be male hands that Kate has been fused too?
Anybody noticed what rings the McCanns wear?
I get zapped when I say these things, but try it in a mirror.

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Post by Guest on 05.03.12 11:03

@tigger wrote:They're all in summer dress, there are about 15 plates on the table for that one cake? Not going to be big servings?
Shouldn't the candles be lit for the twins to blow out?
Maddie's left arm looks as if it's plastic, possible that and Kate's hand are photoshopped in there. Because Maddie's left hand is a fist and the other is open, not a natural thing to do for anyone. The arm and Kate's hand could have been pasted in which explains the almost impossible angle of Kate's right shoulder. That should be further forward to allow the elbow to go further back.
I get zapped when I say these things, but try it in a mirror.

Kate looks post-PdL here: drawn, haggard, highlights.
Who is the other woman?
When was this picture first made public?
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Post by worriedmum on 05.03.12 11:26

Is Kate wearing the same trousers that were taken away by the PJ?
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Post by Guest on 05.03.12 11:29

@worriedmum wrote:Is Kate wearing the same trousers that were taken away by the PJ?

Looks like that, she sure has a thing for chess trousers big grin
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Post by Guest on 05.03.12 13:01

Portia: here's a link to a Daily Mail article of 5th August 2007 in which the photo appeared - though whether for the first time I don't know. Supposedly the other woman is Aunt Nora and it was Madeleine's 2nd birthday but that clearly cannot be correct.

http://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-473172/Kate-McCann-reveals-agony-year-fight-mother.html
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Post by worriedmum on 05.03.12 13:31

The twins were born in 2005 , and if you look closely I think you can see their names are iced on the cake. There is pink and blue icing, I think this could be their2nd birthday, which would fit with Madeleine's size and what she is wearing, and Kate's trousers (ifthey are the same checked ones she wore in PDL)
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Post by Gillyspot on 05.03.12 21:26

Kate is wearing the ubiquitous checked capri pants as well. I agree with worriedmum it is twins second birthday. Funny as article says "Celebrating Madeleine's second birthday, Kate with her Aunt Nora"

Wonder why this hasn't been Carter-Rucked? yes

So not one single birthday photo of poor Madeleine (aka Cinderella).

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Post by Guest on 06.03.12 12:26

sorry if its already been linked to on this topic, but I had never read her View on this topic. ( from 2007)

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/2007/11/criminal-profiling-topic-of-day-last.html

Some people think that the final photo of Madeleine McCann at the pool with Gerry and her sister, Amelie, is a forgery. The claim is that the photo really was only of Gerry and Amelie and that Madeleine was added in through photo enhancement, a ploy to cover up the fact she was already dead by early afternoon on day she was said to have gone missing.

I have to admire the effort to consider this possibility and the effort put out to analyze all the details of the photo and question some of the elements. It is always good to be curious enough to delve into an aspect of a case and see if there could be any clues there.

In this case, I would have to say the explanations of the photo being a fake are not strong enough for me to believe that Maddie’s death/disappearance occurred earlier than 6 PM in the evening.

My thoughts on the photo:

1) While it is true the picture is not perfectly composed with a centering of the threesome (and if Madeleine is not in the picture, then Gerry and Amelie are in the middle), this is not all that uncommon. With the advent of electronic photography, photos are snapped much more carelessly than when one had to pay for developing the prints. Cameras now are used more often as spontaneous recorders of events rather than composed photos for display.

2) That Madeleine’s outline is not overlapped by any person or object is likely just coincidence. If one snaps enough photos, some of them will have isolated objects.

3) The fact the brother is not in the photo simply means he was running about. Again, this is not a posed family portrait.

4) The fact Madeleine is laughing at something out of sight and her father and sister are not laughing is not particularly meaningful. Children tend to laugh spontaneously at whatever they think is funny. Sometime this is just something that strikes them amusing such as their big toe or an expression on someone’s face.

5) The fact that Madeleine is not in a swimsuit proves little. The outfits on the girls look like play outfits and the trio just happened by the pool area and sat down to relax and dangle their feet in the water.

6)The mo st telling clue in this photo that tends to go against the possibility of any forgery is in the clothing of Madeleine and Amelie. Take Maddie out of the picture and what you have is a little girl dressed in a horribly clashing outfit; an orange play suit and a fancy pink hat. Mothers do not tend to put such an outfit on their children and let them out of the house that way (especially a mother who is as fashion conscious as Kate). Maddie’s white hat would look better with her clothing.

The sportier white hat on Madeleine’s head does not clash with her girlier pink dress-like outfit, but that pink hat on Amelie’s head would go with it better. Put the two girls together on an outing and my guess is they started off with the better matching hat, and through play, the girls ended up with the other’s hat on their heads.

It really makes little sense that this photo would be manufactured. If Madeleine had been missing for the majority of the day, there would be far too long a period of time to account for and greater likelihood that Maddie’s invisibility would have been noticed. Furthermore, if she was killed in the morning, it would have been far easier for the McCanns to simply claim that while they were out at the playground or popping in and out of stores while they were shopping, they turned around and Maddie was gone. It is a much simpler story.

But, if Maddie died in the apartment while Gerry was at tennis, or after he came back, or during the tapas bar rendezvous, then the children were already in for the night and the chances of an abduction from the apartment story being created makes far more sense.
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Post by Look4Maddy on 09.03.12 14:38

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" border="0" />I Have been searching for a long time, and i got a few pictures that actually COME from Kate's camera so it says... I looked deeply into it and you can see when the pictures are taken, what time, and what settings the camera had. even what camera had. This is only possible if there is NO photoshopping done on it! so it means these pictures are real or only a cut out... So it only could be that the background has been cut out to certain Madeleine but there is further no edits done on it! I will post a picture of it... You can see when it's taken and that the name is even "kate_Camera" i have a few more of these, they are aswell really good size, like normal picture size...
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Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.03.12 15:26

May I ask where you got this from, Look4Maddy? Do you have a link please?

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passport - Photographs and memories  - Page 32 Empty excerpts transfered from the All Maddie's Birthdays thread

Post by bobbin on 09.03.12 17:05

Very sorry everyone, but I don’t know how to transfer comments from one thread to the other so have just copied some relevant ones from ‘All Maddie’s Birthdays’ and pasted them here. (If it's all too much of a mess, you can find the info on the above thread)

I’ve brought the following over because it discusses Aunty Nora (or Not). Furthermore, the reflections in the table pose the question, why are Kate’s trousers not reflected when the blond woman’s apron appears to be. I would like to know if anyone thinks there should be a reflection,

I also do not find myself agreeing with Pat Brown on the pool photo. There has been a lot of time spent on comparing the backgrounds in the two versions that
were publicised and I feel that whilst Pat has been very busy bringing us other, very worthwhile input, she has not perhaps had the time to put in the deep
introspection and analysis that long standing members have had.





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Yesterday at 9:19 pm



Just an
observation, the knife is in Kate's left hand. Is she left handed?
I am right handed and would never consider holding a knife in my left hand.
Whether left or right handed is probably not of any importance, but has any one
else noticed.



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Today at 7:24 am



bobbin
wrote:
Just an observation, the knife is in Kate's left hand. Is she left
handed?
I am right handed and would never consider holding a knife in my left hand.
Whether left or right handed is probably not of any importance, but has any one
else noticed.





Gosh! should have noticed that. I had a theory that Kate was pasted on to
someone's hands, because nothing about that photo really works.
I noticed she has a thick ring on her third finger of the right hand and and
one or two on the ring finger of the left.
I've been trying to find photographs and videos. If she's right-handed we
should be able to see that somewhere.
Still, I just checked and she does wear rings on those fingers.




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Today at 10:20 am



I have
doubts that the woman on the left is Nora Paul, Kate's aunt - here's another
photo claimed to be of her.

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In view of the error in describing the event as Madeleine's birthday, it's
probably just another error. Either that or confusing photos run in the McCann
and Healy families!




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Today at 11:34 am



Jean
wrote:
I have doubts that the woman on the left is Nora Paul, Kate's aunt -
here's another photo claimed to be of her.

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In view of the error in describing the event as Madeleine's birthday, it's
probably just another error. Either that or confusing photos run in the McCann
and Healy families!




.....

The blond lady holding Madeleine has a very sharp nose profile, same as Kate's.

In the photo in the above site, the lady's nose is bulbous at the end.

Not the same noses at all, unless a nose-job has been done somewhere, sometime
since the photos were taken.
I also have difficulty finding the (left) arm position of the blond lady to be
physically feasible. Looks like one very long upper arm, with an elbow bend
that begs the question.
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Today at 11:48 am



bobbin wrote:


Jean wrote:I have doubts that the woman
on the left is Nora Paul, Kate's aunt - here's another photo claimed to be of
her.

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In view of the error in describing the event as Madeleine's birthday, it's
probably just another error. Either that or confusing photos run in the McCann
and Healy families!




.....

The blond lady holding Madeleine has a very sharp nose profile, same as Kate's.
In the photo in the above site, the lady's nose is bulbous at the end.
Not the same noses at all, unless a nose-job has been done somewhere, sometime
since the photos were taken.
I also have difficulty finding the (left) arm position of the blond lady to be
physically feasible. Looks like one very long upper arm, with an elbow bend
that begs the question.
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Thank you! Those arms aren't possible imo. You're quite right, these aren't the
same women, different types. One more frumpy other older glamour type.




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Today at 12:01 pm



Ribisl
wrote:

Enlarge
this image
Reduce
this image
Click
to see fullsize

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I don't think this is her birthday photo at all. The two candles, pink and blue
decoration - the cake was meant for the twins but not for their birthday either
because of their summery outfits. Christening maybe? Madeleine's dress looks
too summery for early May, then again she had a plenty of Scottish blood in her
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Maddie's sock, and pink dress materiel are reflecting on the table, along with
the cake, plates and tea towel, and even perhaps a slight orange/pink
reflection of the blond lady's apron.
Wouldn't we expect to see a bit of reflection of the black and white checks of
the pants of ganga that Kate always seems to be wearing.



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Post by rainbow-fairy on 09.03.12 18:29

Please don't be sorry bobbin as I for one would like to discuss this picture some more.
Was looking at this the other day with my twelve year old son. So much is wrong with it, where do you start?
1)IMO (and my son's), Kate's head is FAR too big for (or photoshopped badly onto!) her shoulders. The angle is just, wrong! I can see that is seems she is crouched somewhat, but however you try the angle (we simulated this) we just couldn't get that big head/small shoulders effect. Where is her neck? Must be Very long and flexible to be set that low.

2)Maddie's leg seems to be at an impossible angle and length, if you look at where her hips start. For her leg and foot to be bent out to the side like that, would make her leg way too long! Also, her toes just don't seem right. Actually, that foot looks wrong completely.

3)Other posters have said it looks plastic, but on my screen I can't see Kate's right arm at ALL - it seems more to be the worktop?

What do you think?

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Post by Guest on 09.03.12 18:51

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Rainbow-Fairy - I'll let those who are more technically minded answer 1) and 2) but as for 3) it's Madeleine's left arm that has been commented upon. The top half is a different colour to the lower half and there's a strange line by the elbow, near where Kate's right hand is.

Just in case anyone is confused by the arms, the other one (with a wristwatch) belongs to the other woman, whoever she is.
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Post by tigger on 09.03.12 19:08

Some work has been done as there is clearly blurring on Kate's right leg - just on the edge. A rectangular area. Makes no sense.
Maddie - there's a reversal of the tennis photo somewhere posted by Portia, there too she has a discoloured arm. If the tennis photo was reversed it would be her left arm, which is discoloured in this picture too. Why also only one hand a fist, not a natural gesture.
There is another photo of the kitchen at the same time, with just Maddie looking weird in her too long red dress and I'm pretty sure, eyeliner.

The whole scene looks like a set-up, no cutlery, just 20-odd plates for who? Where are they all? Like all the 'festive' pictures of the McCanns, it's oddly lacking in atmosphere. And as Bobbin said, is Kate left-handed? Otherwise definitely posed for effect.

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passport - Photographs and memories  - Page 32 Empty maddie in long red sun dress, in kitchen

Post by bobbin on 09.03.12 21:16

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In this photo, in the Daily Mail article above, Maddie is wearing the same dress as in the 'cake photo'. You can see the kitchen door handles are the same behind her head, as in the 'cake photo'. I would guess then that this is Maddie, but at an age which is hard to identify. She is also holding a pen? and two hoop earrings? which may be what was just visible by the right ear in the 'lying back along the floor' photo.

I can't find that one for the moment, and wonder what dress she was wearing at the time.

Why I query, why the black and white check trousers of Kate are not making a reflection, is because, I wonder if the pattern has been added in after the event, to try to link time lines, so that a smaller Maddie was tied to the check trousers timing of the Portugal holiday.
The girl in the 'playground' photos, in PdL has firmer front teeth than the 'red dress Maddie', and seems altogether to be of a bigger and older build.
The 'cake photo' is clearly warm weather time, making the twins birthday or whatever, a delayed event. The blond lady is wearing a thin lacy top. Kate is well sun tanned.
The blond lady is so similar in facial/bone structure to Kate, she must be a very close relative. I actually checked with a mirror to see if it were a mirror image of Kate (a little aged and faded).
It is all bizarre, and Maddie's foot does seem oddly angled, relative to how she is being held, but most of all,
SHOULD THERE NOT BE A REFLECTION of Kate's trousers in the table top, in keeping with how the rest of the picture shows reflections?
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Post by Shhh on 09.03.12 22:07

Wow. Look at the "birthday cake" photo. The strange 'line' by madeleine's elbow. Comments of 'plastic looking'. Did poor Madeleine have a prosphetic left arm?

Photos that don't look like her show a normal arm/hand brushi g her fringe aside. Photos can be easily mirrored forleft or right.

Could it be possible Madeleine had a prosthesis? Look closely atthe lower left arm & especially the hand on that photo.
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Post by Shhh on 09.03.12 22:14

If that isn't a prosphetic arm then it's photoshopped on. The hand on that arm. Look at it. It's adult like with long what appears to be painted nails
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Post by bobbin on 09.03.12 22:15

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just discovered how to capture and move photos. This dress is not the 'cake photo' dress.
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Post by bobbin on 09.03.12 22:34

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Maddie's arm is good and normal looking here, yet in the 'cake photo' it is quite different. Why?
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Post by Liz Eagles on 09.03.12 22:40

I've tried to take the context of the photograph into account. Kate has a knife in her hand, appearing ready to cut a cake, the plates are there ready and yet there are lit candles on the cake and a spare candle holder near the cake. The cake is too far away imo for Madeleine to blow out the candles. Kate is holding Madeleine by the elbow (perhaps to stop her falling forward or perhaps not - the line in the crease of Madeleine's left elbow is suspicious imo) however, why wouldn't you put the knife down, pull the cake forward and have a photo taken of Madeleine blowing out the candles? There wouldn't have been a rush to cut a birthday cake surely.

I tried to answer the context that perhaps it was the twins' cake (looks like it in blue and pink) and Madeleine played up to blow out candles feeling left out just as Kate was about to cut the cake. Aunty or someone else put a couple of candles in and let Madeleine have a go but that doesn't quite add up as the lighter is on the other side of the cake. Still doesn't add up that the knife was still in Kate's hand.

I then looked at the size of the heads in this photo. Kate's head is too big for the body imo and if you measure each head from the hairline to the chin they are almost exact. It might be the angle that does that but Kate's head imo does not fit the body.

There is also a strange reflection in the toaster. My sad software can't make it out but it doesn't look like the reflection of the lemon. Sadly when I enlarge it there is just pixelation.

I forgot to add that if this is the best photo that the Mc's can come up with of a happy birthday occasion then I want to weep.
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Post by bobbin on 09.03.12 22:53

Does the knife have a shadow by the toaster, if so, was a strong flash used, the distances are all wrong for the shadows.
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Post by Liz Eagles on 09.03.12 22:58

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Does the knife have a shadow by the toaster, if so, was a strong flash used, the distances are all wrong for the shadows.

I imagine as there is reflection in the kitchen counter there is lighting above it. There is a reflection in the toaster on the right hand side of it that I can't make out. It's not the knife imo. Anyone have decent software?
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Post by tigger on 10.03.12 6:23

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" border="0" />I Have been searching for a long time, and i got a few pictures that actually COME from Kate's camera so it says... I looked deeply into it and you can see when the pictures are taken, what time, and what settings the camera had. even what camera had. This is only possible if there is NO photoshopping done on it! so it means these pictures are real or only a cut out... So it only could be that the background has been cut out to certain Madeleine but there is further no edits done on it! I will post a picture of it... You can see when it's taken and that the name is even "kate_Camera" i have a few more of these, they are aswell really good size, like normal picture size...

I really don't know what you mean by saying no photoshopping has been done on this picture. For a start, the coloboma which doesn't exist, is clear to see.
It's perfectly easy to do that without getting the record of the work on the camera. All this gives us is the camera setting at the time of taking the picture. That's all the camera does.

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passport - Photographs and memories  - Page 32 Empty Re: Photographs and memories

Post by Liz Eagles on 10.03.12 6:36

and camera time/date settings depend on what you tell the camera they are.
Liz Eagles
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passport - Photographs and memories  - Page 32 Empty Re: Photographs and memories

Post by Liz Eagles on 10.03.12 6:51

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]" border="0" />I Have been searching for a long time, and i got a few pictures that actually COME from Kate's camera so it says... I looked deeply into it and you can see when the pictures are taken, what time, and what settings the camera had. even what camera had. This is only possible if there is NO photoshopping done on it! so it means these pictures are real or only a cut out... So it only could be that the background has been cut out to certain Madeleine but there is further no edits done on it! I will post a picture of it... You can see when it's taken and that the name is even "kate_Camera" i have a few more of these, they are aswell really good size, like normal picture size...

I really don't know what you mean by saying no photoshopping has been done on this picture. For a start, the coloboma which doesn't exist, is clear to see.
It's perfectly easy to do that without getting the record of the work on the camera. All this gives us is the camera setting at the time of taking the picture. That's all the camera does.

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from the details of the camera I googled the make and model (link above) interesting that it says the model of this camera was launched in 2005
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