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'The Last Photo': The key questions

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Juulcy on 21.08.12 15:45

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Spaniel and others, for goodness sake.

The pictures are NOT taken from the same place. There is a difference in the vertical AND horizontal positions these two pictures were take from. You cannot therefore use your red vertical mark the way you have, it's meaningless. Sorry.

I minimised those differences by lining up the block shapes in the wall as my starting point (i.e. by choosing objects in the same plane which is what you haven't done). That allows me to see that not only is the wall the SAME, but what YOU interpret as different 'stuff' behind Madeleine is the result of you looking at a different spot altogether but telling yourself that it's the same spot. The picture below should show you how off you are in this assumption.



Look at the points I've marked. Those two circled rocks are THE SAME ROCK. Then look at the arrowed points - they're THE SAME POINT - and look, that's the bit that rises up behind Madeleine. It's THERE in both pictures. Can you please LOOK?

What do I bet that someone now finds ANOTHER reason why this picture is faked? laughat

. Okeeee point taken. I'll go Back to my first assumption (Photo of a photo)
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 21.08.12 15:54

Just to illustrate...

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by jd on 21.08.12 15:54

Where is the 'black line'?

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 15:58

@Juulcy wrote:
@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Spaniel and others, for goodness sake.

The pictures are NOT taken from the same place. There is a difference in the vertical AND horizontal positions these two pictures were take from. You cannot therefore use your red vertical mark the way you have, it's meaningless. Sorry.

I minimised those differences by lining up the block shapes in the wall as my starting point (i.e. by choosing objects in the same plane which is what you haven't done). That allows me to see that not only is the wall the SAME, but what YOU interpret as different 'stuff' behind Madeleine is the result of you looking at a different spot altogether but telling yourself that it's the same spot. The picture below should show you how off you are in this assumption.



Look at the points I've marked. Those two circled rocks are THE SAME ROCK. Then look at the arrowed points - they're THE SAME POINT - and look, that's the bit that rises up behind Madeleine. It's THERE in both pictures. Can you please LOOK?

What do I bet that someone now finds ANOTHER reason why this picture is faked? laughat

. Okeeee point taken. I'll go Back to my first assumption (Photo of a photo)

My point is that the area is correct not matter how you twist and turn it, and yes I never said that brick was not it, my starting point is from the three and M are sitting almost in the middle of that red line. And if you look at the original picture the wall goes up at both sides beside her head. Even with that little bump on one side, there is none close enough on the other side, but when you look at the orig pic it's not the stone point bit that is the problem, it's the shaping of the wall the entire wall is bending upwards on both her sides... I have looked for all the things you point out, I disagree with you.

You also did not explain the black/grey fleck on the bending wall, left side as we see it.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 16:02

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Just to illustrate...


Sorry but to me that only illustrat that you are wrong, look at the tree and take it from there, use marks on the tree as a starting point.. It's the same wall area ...no matter what angle the picture is taken from the place is still the same.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 17:14

I think that it's a photo made on Day 1. Gerry is wearing the same clothes and Madeleine is wearing her new smock outfit, of which her mother said that she couldn't wait for to wear it. Anyone believing that a little girl would wait for 5-6 days before she finally can???? IMO the only fake thing about it is the date. And they made one terrible mistake: the time. Most of Europe is one hour ahead of Great Britain, apart from Portugal, which has the SAME time ...

I considered the photo to be a fake, because of the missing elbow on the cropped photo in the church. However, having followed this case for 5+ years now, I can imagine a pair of parents, who - whilst in distress about their missing daughter - still want to put up a "perfect" picture of Madeleine and have it photoshopped ...
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by bobbin on 21.08.12 17:45

Châtelaine wrote:I think that it's a photo made on Day 1. Gerry is wearing the same clothes and Madeleine is wearing her new smock outfit, of which her mother said that she couldn't wait for to wear it. Anyone believing that a little girl would wait for 5-6 days before she finally can???? IMO the only fake thing about it is the date. And they made one terrible mistake: the time. Most of Europe is one hour ahead of Great Britain, apart from Portugal, which has the SAME time ...

I considered the photo to be a fake, because of the missing elbow on the cropped photo in the church. However, having followed this case for 5+ years now, I can imagine a pair of parents, who - whilst in distress about their missing daughter - still want to put up a "perfect" picture of Madeleine and have it photoshopped ...

This whole discussion is getting tedious. ProfPPlum trying to force pictures and lines around to force us to believe that the picture is not a fake.
The elephant in the room !!!


And Chatelaine, how could the photo have been taken on day 1?
The poolside picture, even if it we try to imagine it being taken at the beginning of the holiday, could not be 'true' because of the flowering bougainvillea.
The playground picture, whenever it was taken during the week, has bougainvillea at a bare branch, scarcely a leaf, stage.
The position of the playground bougainvillea is within meters of the swimming pool picture's bougainvillea.
There are so many anomolies, with Amelie's transparent arm, the wall looking as though it has been two photos spliced, shadows etc. but above all the bougainvillea which only comes into full flower with heat and dry, conditions that did not occur prior to May 3rd 2007.

So ProfessorPPlum, please dig around and try to find some way of dismissing the flowering bougainvillea. I look forward to seeing what you can come up with.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Spaniel on 21.08.12 18:25

I'm over this nonsense.

If you have any evidence as to the manipulation of any of the family phographs, that is in the official police files, please send the evidence to the Met.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by tiny on 21.08.12 18:54

If the pool pic is the last photo,when was the tennis photo taken?sorry to ask but the tennis pic is of what Madeleine really looked like in my opinion,so i would be interested to know.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by jd on 21.08.12 18:57

@Juulcy wrote:
Moa wrote:Enlarge for better look



This is convincing. It is the first time I really doubt this photo. I was of the believe that the Photo is genuine but the date and time are false (by making a photo of the photo with a doctored camera).

You don't need to enlarge the photos to see the wall rising behind Maddie. Nor do you need any experience of photoshop to see this either...just a pair of eyes!
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by jd on 21.08.12 18:59

@tiny wrote:If the pool pic is the last photo,when was the tennis photo taken?sorry to ask but the tennis pic is of what Madeleine really looked like in my opinion,so i would be interested to know.

Depends on which statement you read. It changes from May 1st to May 3rd according to which tapas member statement you read. These pictures are not in the bewk either, so important to the mccanns that they were!!
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by tiny on 21.08.12 19:54

thanks JD,but how can two pics look so different IF both were taken on that holiday.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on 21.08.12 20:19

Didn't "we" agree already 5 years ago, that this whole sad saga is a play of smoke and mirrors ... ?

As for the bougainvillea: it IS possible it blooms at that time on one site and not on another, depending on age of the shrub and it' s positioning. I'd love to hear the experienced opinion of an Algarve poster, as I can only tell you what it is on the Mediterranean ...

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by jd on 21.08.12 20:22

@tiny wrote:thanks JD,but how can two pics look so different IF both were taken on that holiday.

Short answer is they can't! Not unless there is some sort of wonder drug nobody knows about that you can morph into a different looking human being so drastically within 48 hours!

Certainly one of these pictures is an absolute fake as it is not the same girl in both them, I reckon both are fake and in the poolside pic they took Amelie and Maddie from pictures taken in Donegal and photoshopped them in. When you have the materials it is as simple as ABC. They needed a 'family' photo from the holiday because they never had any except for the playground one, even though kate mccann and one of the twins is missing from this one too!

The also needed an iconic picture of Maddie to help sell their business which was under the guise of a public fund
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by tiny on 21.08.12 20:36

@jd wrote:
@tiny wrote:thanks JD,but how can two pics look so different IF both were taken on that holiday.

Short answer is they can't! Not unless there is some sort of wonder drug nobody knows about that you can morph into a different looking human being so drastically within 48 hours!

Certainly one of these pictures is an absolute fake as it is not the same girl in both them, I reckon both are fake and in the poolside pic they took Amelie and Maddie from pictures taken in Donegal and photoshopped them in. When you have the materials it is as simple as ABC. They needed a 'family' photo from the holiday because they never had any except for the playground one, even though kate mccann and one of the twins is missing from this one too!

The also needed an iconic picture of Maddie to help sell their business which was under the guise of a public fund

So that begs the question ,how are so many people taken in by this pair, when anyone can see the difference in the two pics that were taken in the same week,and another question, how on gods earth are they getting away with it all.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by bobbin on 21.08.12 22:26

Châtelaine wrote:Didn't "we" agree already 5 years ago, that this whole sad saga is a play of smoke and mirrors ... ?

As for the bougainvillea: it IS possible it blooms at that time on one site and not on another, depending on age of the shrub and it' s positioning. I'd love to hear the experienced opinion of an Algarve poster, as I can only tell you what it is on the Mediterranean ...


Chatelaine, go back through my posts on this thread. I don't have the time to go back and look but I posted the link to a diary kept by a hotel just a short distance from PdL. It gave a daily reference to weather, temperature, how the plants were developing etc. I also gave a link to the official records of weather for the area of PdL and it was without question, evident throughout the references given that the weather had been such that the bougainvillea COULD NOT have been in full flower, by the pool, on May 3rd, 2007.

Editing to add, I've just looked for the references:-

http://www.vila-do-ouro.com/blog/?m=5&y=2012

http://www.vivendamiranda.com/uk/weatherlog

Just to remind, bougainvillea needs some 5 consecutive days of temps around late 20's to 30 degrees to come into full flowering.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by ProfessorPPlum on 21.08.12 23:55

Your dismissal of the point about the effects of parallax (how closer objects appear in different locations when you move the viewpoint) just shows your utter ignorance about optics and how to read images. Your determination to believe what you want regardless of the evidence to the contrary is proven time and again throughout this thread - but you're completely blind to it. That would make you an absolute liability in a criminal investigation. Up til now I believed it was worth trying to show you where your conspiracy obsession about this photo was getting in the way of the search for the truth of what happened to Madeleine - but I'm clear now that's a waste of time.

If anything you or I said actually made any difference to the investigation then I'd be tearing my hair out at the ridiculous wild goose chase some of you are on - but, luckily, it doesn't so you carry right on with your faked photo conspiracy. I'm out.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by jd on 22.08.12 0:27

@ProfessorPPlum wrote: You're all grown up people and entitled to believe what you want on this issue.

Thank you
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by jd on 22.08.12 1:13

This video is a good example which shows how to copy and paste one object into another image, add shadows, resize the object, brighten and contrast the image, soften the edges of the copied object etc. Just imagine Amelie and Maddie being copied from another image onto the poolside and how easy it is to do

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on 22.08.12 6:23

@ProfessorPPlum wrote:Your dismissal of the point about the effects of parallax (how closer objects appear in different locations when you move the viewpoint) just shows your utter ignorance about optics and how to read images. Your determination to believe what you want regardless of the evidence to the contrary is proven time and again throughout this thread - but you're completely blind to it. That would make you an absolute liability in a criminal investigation. Up til now I believed it was worth trying to show you where your conspiracy obsession about this photo was getting in the way of the search for the truth of what happened to Madeleine - but I'm clear now that's a waste of time.

If anything you or I said actually made any difference to the investigation then I'd be tearing my hair out at the ridiculous wild goose chase some of you are on - but, luckily, it doesn't so you carry right on with your faked photo conspiracy. I'm out.

Again You did not answer the question. And even if you move the view point, the area is still the same and no way inn hell is the wall raising like it does on the m picture!

And there are too many strange things surrounding this picture , late arrival (3weeks) , difference between m on this and tennis pic, it's not in the book, it's a high resolution picture, it's all of this that first makes us look closer at this picture.. And we are not blind, we are sharing opinions and telling what our eyes see, we might not be right but we are absolutely allowed to discuss our opinions without you talking down on us /me. You might be wrong we might be wrong, time will tell , and if you don't like this discussion plz stay out of it !
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Guest on 22.08.12 10:04

Agreed Moa. I'm not at all technically minded so the debates about how photos can be manipulated go above my head. You only have to look at the supposed last and last but one photos - poolside and tennis court respectively - to know that they both cannot be genuine because of the vast differences between the two images of Madeleine.
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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by aiyoyo on 22.08.12 14:10

Châtelaine wrote:Didn't "we" agree already 5 years ago, that this whole sad saga is a play of smoke and mirrors ... ?

As for the bougainvillea: it IS possible it blooms at that time on one site and not on another, depending on age of the shrub and it' s positioning. I'd love to hear the experienced opinion of an Algarve poster, as I can only tell you what it is on the Mediterranean ...

This is true of bougainvillea in tropical climate as well where I now reside.
I have lived also for some considerable years in South of France and witnessed Bougainvillea flowering from May to November even December.

Bougainvillea in one area can be in full bloom yet in close by area just bare.
All depends on age and positioning of the plant, whether in shady spot or fully out in the open sun , whether getting rain water or not, and also on soil condition.
Bougainvillea requires plenty sunshine above 20 degrees constant temp and very little water to bloom hence you sometimes see free flowing flowering bougainvillea hanging over bridges or in the wild mountainous area for example when it's not watered by human, but depends fully on the elements and earth condition.

I know because I grow bougainvillea in my garden, and I also have frangipani in my garden, same thing.

Like some of you I used to believe only the date was altered.
Now I'm not so sure, after posters here pointed out how it's not possible for the same child to look so different in the tennis pic and pool pic taken within a matter of two-days at most.
As one poster asked if pool pic is last photo then when was tennis pic taken?
If pool pic was last logically tennis pic was taken earlier, so how come she looked considerably younger in a later pool photo with completely different hairstyle, hair that is at least 3-inch longer in a matter of just 48 hours.

Maybe the pool pic is genuine one taken in PDL with only Gerry and Amelie in it taken on day of arrival b/c Amelie although not dressed in swimming costume was dressed only in top without bottom quite apt for a child that age for the pool.
Just Maddie was added (photoshopped) into that shot using a sitting-picture of her taken at an another place and time possibly a year earlier. Maddie looked a year younger in the pool pic (last pic) than the tennis pic wherein she was considerably taller.

If one thinks about it, if one wants to create a last photo where would be the best place to do so without arousing immediate undue suspicion taking also into consideration of the timeline of their account of that fateful day -- obviously during a break period in a place where there's no witness at that time of the day. Say for example faking one in the Tennis Court area or Cafe area or Creche or Reception area would not be too clever for obvious reason.

As an aside, even Maddie in the b/day cake candle blow out shot at Rothley looked considerably taller than the Maddie in the last pic at the pool. Can someone remind us how old was Maddie in the b/day cake photo?



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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by tigger on 22.08.12 14:15

Possibly the twins' second birthday 1/2/07, so Maddie was 3 years and 9 months.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by Ribisl on 22.08.12 19:59

@tigger wrote:Possibly the twins' second birthday 1/2/07, so Maddie was 3 years and 9 months.
I always thought that was more likely to be the twins' Christening in the summer of 2006. That cake is typical for Christening - pink for the girls, blue for the boys. Plus Madeleine's dress.

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Re: 'The Last Photo': The key questions

Post by tigger on 22.08.12 20:58

@Ribisl wrote:
@tigger wrote:Possibly the twins' second birthday 1/2/07, so Maddie was 3 years and 9 months.
I always thought that was more likely to be the twins' Christening in the summer of 2006. That cake is typical for Christening - pink for the girls, blue for the boys. Plus Madeleine's dress.

That would fit better with the dress and the other photographs with her cousin in the garden in the same dress. Both women are also dressed very lightly for February, that did puzzle me. I didn't realise a cake was made for christening as well.
You've cracked another one! Weird atmosphere in the photo though.

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