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'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 Mm11

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'The Last Photo': The key questions

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Post by Ross on 10.02.12 23:06

I don't have any particular view on this per se, but as we know there was high level government support from the very start, the possibility exists that powerful image manipulation software that is not available commercially could have been used. The level of tech available to intelligence agencies is far in front of what we can buy.
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Post by tigger on 11.02.12 9:33

@Ross wrote:I don't have any particular view on this per se, but as we know there was high level government support from the very start, the possibility exists that powerful image manipulation software that is not available commercially could have been used. The level of tech available to intelligence agencies is far in front of what we can buy.

Imo the Fund and the publicity needed input from experts such as marketing, advertising and IT.
But again - imo - the photoshopping is mostly very amateur, shoddy jobs. If they were good I would not be able to spot it. I have experience with CS5 photoshop and earlier versions. A much better job could have been done with the widely available technology at the time. So no experts there imo.

The problem is that people see with their brains, not their eyes. This is a problem when teaching life drawing. The same mistakes come out in the photographs - at first glance everything looks OK, because the brain has scanned the database, two eyes, ears, mouth below the nose, fine - it's a face.
But on closer examination one finds the head not connecting to the neck properly (very tricky to do) - the non participation (not looking at the camera) of the pasted face is always a give-away. So on and so forth.
My feeling is that Maddie wasn't beautiful (enough) and that's why there aren't enough photographs of her and most of those had some adjustment, such as getting rid of her baggy eyes. The difference between e.g. the real photo of her going up the aircraft steps and the poster photo is quite noticeable.

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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.02.12 10:05

@tigger wrote:
@Ross wrote:I don't have any particular view on this per se, but as we know there was high level government support from the very start, the possibility exists that powerful image manipulation software that is not available commercially could have been used. The level of tech available to intelligence agencies is far in front of what we can buy.

Imo the Fund and the publicity needed input from experts such as marketing, advertising and IT.
But again - imo - the photoshopping is mostly very amateur, shoddy jobs. If they were good I would not be able to spot it. I have experience with CS5 photoshop and earlier versions. A much better job could have been done with the widely available technology at the time. So no experts there imo.

The problem is that people see with their brains, not their eyes. This is a problem when teaching life drawing. The same mistakes come out in the photographs - at first glance everything looks OK, because the brain has scanned the database, two eyes, ears, mouth below the nose, fine - it's a face.
But on closer examination one finds the head not connecting to the neck properly (very tricky to do) - the non participation (not looking at the camera) of the pasted face is always a give-away. So on and so forth.
My feeling is that Maddie wasn't beautiful (enough) and that's why there aren't enough photographs of her and most of those had some adjustment, such as getting rid of her baggy eyes. The difference between e.g. the real photo of her going up the aircraft steps and the poster photo is quite noticeable.
tigger, I agree 100% with what you've said. I'd also like to add that even if I could accept that the photo's are as the camera intended, no photoshopping, then I am left with this: a child who changes age repeatedly! How can you reconcile this photo of Maddie with Daddy and twin siblings with the 'professional shoot' pictures? The 'Donegal' pics? And most laughably of all, the 'last photo (pool)' and the 'last photo (tennis ball')? Its just not possible!

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Post by Guest on 11.02.12 10:56

From a slightly different perspective now.

Why are there NO pictures of Madeleine printed in Kate's book? 'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 302873

From memory, I seem to remember that there used to be certain legal requirements where publishers were concerned and the use of photographs. Perhaps some of our legal eagles could look into this.
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Post by dentdelion on 11.02.12 13:00

There are lots of photos in my hardback copy of book and also there is her picture on front cover.
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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.02.12 13:05

Stella wrote:From a slightly different perspective now.

Why are there NO pictures of Madeleine printed in Kate's book? 'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 302873

From memory, I seem to remember that there used to be certain legal requirements where publishers were concerned and the use of photographs. Perhaps some of our legal eagles could look into this.
My God! Is this true? NONE?!? I was sure I remember that sicky picture of baby 'Maddie' on Kate's belly - but then I have only skimmed it in Tesco and that was more for words. So, there is the 'front cover poster pic' and that's it? A book about your 'missing daughter' Madeleine and not one picture? Truly perverse.
Stella I'm not sure I'm picking up on the implications of this - but there again we have been up 5 hours with no electric in minus figures - brain freeze I think Wink

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Post by Guest on 11.02.12 13:05

Stella, there are none of Madeleine allegedly taken on the holiday itself. Here's a link to all the photos in the book.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/M.htm
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Post by Guest on 11.02.12 13:12

'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 655851 What I meant to say, was none of her taken in Portugal on that holiday. As first spotted by ROSA.
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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.02.12 13:34

Stella wrote:'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 655851 What I meant to say, was none of her taken in Portugal on that holiday. As first spotted by ROSA.
Aha! Seems I'm not the only one struggling today, lol Wink
It is truly bizarre even so. You'd think, at least, the photo to match the paedo-soft-porn description of the 'pretty peach smock top from Gap with the embroidered shorts from Monsoon(I think)' that were 'an extravagance, but worth it!' (Sounds like a l'Oreal ad). Why not add the pool pic to match? Why no tennis pic to match the description of 'one of my photo's that is now famous around the world'?
I did think, maybe its too risky to put the 'holiday photo's' in the bewk (expecting phenomenal sales I think) in case someone who'd been in PdL realised the child they knew to be Maddie wasn't the one in the bewk! Obviously they wouldn't be able to put a 'sub' photo in without maybe out-the-loop family members / distant friends realising it wasn't the girl they knew...
Does my rambling make any sense? I'm just more thinking aloud via keyboard really, musing...
This case reminds me of a heat haze. Sometimes I'm sure I'$ close to a truth epiphany, but just as I form the conclusion it morphs out of my grasp... So frustrating...

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Post by Guest on 11.02.12 13:51

The pool picture. Where exactly has this ever been printed? Was it only ever in a newspaper, if that?

The tennis balls shot. Someones favourite photo as I remember. So favourite, it's not even included in the book.

The documentary run by C4, Dispatches, may have quickly shown the tennis balls shot. But other than that, all we have ever seen them in, is forums.

You may be onto something here rainbow-fairy. If there is none of her in the book, then there is no visible reference of her in Portugal available to anyone. Mmmmm, yes, now that is interesting...
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Post by Guest on 11.02.12 14:12

Just looked through the book, there is no pictures from their PDL holliday. There is only one picture of her beeing taken just before she disappered, taken the week before they left , in April 07.

There are only two pictures of Kate and Madeleine, and on one of them Kate is having a drink/glass of wine in one hand, and Madeleine in the other.. Both pictures taken when she was around one year old...

Two pictures of Madeleine and Gerry together.

There are alos 12 Pictures of Kate and Gerry together, without any children, and a few pictures of Kate alone, or Kate and friends.

Most pictures seem old, wouldnt it be more natural to put in the most reasont pictures of her, IF the books purpose was to make people look for her and help finding her? Old pictures of her wouldn't help that situation..
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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.02.12 14:13

Stella wrote:The pool picture. Where exactly has this ever been printed? Was it only ever in a newspaper, if that?

The tennis balls shot. Someones favourite photo as I remember. So favourite, it's not even included in the book.

The documentary run by C4, Dispatches, may have quickly shown the tennis balls shot. But other than that, all we have ever seen them in, is forums.

You may be onto something here rainbow-fairy. If there is none of her in the book, then there is no visible reference of her in Portugal available to anyone. Mmmmm, yes, now that is interesting...
That's it, Stella! I was just formulating a re-post of my thoughts when you just posted which has helped me to galvanise what I was thinking. So.....
1)I have suspicions that, if 'real' the pool pic was taken in 2006 not 2007
2)Printing it in the book, as opposed to passively 'allowing' it to be released would force 'ownership' of said photo and any faults/deceptions it may contain (in a similar way to the FAMILY announcing the 'jemmied' shutters, K+G didn't say it directly so to all intents and purposes they could legitimately claim they were 'misinterpreted' by family. Ownership again...
3)If it had been taken in '06, memories of those there at the time could be jogged... 'Ownership' again...

Sorry I think I may be rambling again but in a nutshell what I mean is this;
If the s**t hits the fan, and the McCanns have proven to have 'authorised' these photo's as authentic, they are stuffed - no wriggle room!
HOWEVER, if these photos have been 'released' and gone online, K+G could claim that any alterations, acceptance of times and dates etc, are someone else's not their own! They are AVOIDING OWNERSHIP for obvious reasons, IMO...
Does this make any more sense?

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"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 670379



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Post by Guest on 11.02.12 14:22

@rainbow-fairy wrote:Sorry I think I may be rambling again but in a nutshell what I mean is this;
If the s**t hits the fan, and the McCanns have proven to have 'authorised' these photo's as authentic, they are stuffed - no wriggle room!'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 302873 HOWEVER, if these photos have been 'released' and gone online, K+G could claim that any alterations'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 160807 , acceptance of times and dates etc, are someone else's not their own! 'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 160807 They are AVOIDING OWNERSHIP for obvious reasons, IMO...
Does this make any more sense? 'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 3711883763
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Post by Guest on 11.02.12 14:32

Moa wrote:Most pictures seem old, wouldnt it be more natural to put in the most recent pictures of her, IF the books purpose was to make people look for her and help finding her? Old pictures of her wouldn't help that situation..

'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 351181 well said Moa.

They had a fantasic opportunity with that book to let the world know what she looked like on that holiday.
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Post by dentdelion on 11.02.12 14:40

There are about 19 pictures featuring Madeleine in the book and as you say none taken on that holiday. There is one of her eating an icecream ( not the more well known one) that is captioned as being taken the week before the holiday.
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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.02.12 15:02

Stella wrote:
Moa wrote:Most pictures seem old, wouldnt it be more natural to put in the most recent pictures of her, IF the books purpose was to make people look for her and help finding her? Old pictures of her wouldn't help that situation..

'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 351181 well said Moa.

They had a fantasic opportunity with that book to let the world know what she looked like on that holiday.
Exactly, compare and contrast with the abduction and murder of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman. Their 'last photo', which I would think could be instantly brought to mind by most adults in the UK (in fact I just asked my 12 year old son if he could remember it, straight away 'Yes, they were wearing Manchester Utd football tops'), was released first as it was the one most likely to wield results. . I have the book 'Goodbye, Dearest Holly' (a heartbreaking read - here's how families of truly abducted children behave) and it is proudly printed in there.
Kate so wonderfully described the outfit Maddie was wearing and what happened before she took the photo - yet its not included? Pull the other one... There is a REALLY good reason why not (IMO, of course)

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Post by tigger on 11.02.12 15:59

Moa wrote:Just looked through the book, there is no pictures from their PDL holliday. There is only one picture of her beeing taken just before she disappered, taken the week before they left , in April 07.

There are only two pictures of Kate and Madeleine, and on one of them Kate is having a drink/glass of wine in one hand, and Madeleine in the other.. Both pictures taken when she was around one year old...

Two pictures of Madeleine and Gerry together.

There are alos 12 Pictures of Kate and Gerry together, without any children, and a few pictures of Kate alone, or Kate and friends.

Most pictures seem old, wouldnt it be more natural to put in the most reasont pictures of her, IF the books purpose was to make people look for her and help finding her? Old pictures of her wouldn't help that situation..

You hit the nail on the head, Moa. The happy family photo which is in the book most probably has Gerry pasted in together with the picture frame behind him. There simply don't seem to be many, if any, real happy family shots. But 12 pictures of just the two of them? Tell you enough, doesn't it? Wasn't this book supposed to be about Madeleine, but it is an auto hagiography of Kate.
The book does tell us helpfully how very difficult Madeleine was, needed attention 18 hours a day an cried all the time. They thought it was colic. Drs.??? And we are told they weren't sure what was wrong with her? Kate tells us too that sometimes the three of them sat in the kitchen, all crying....
It sounds as if Maddie was a big disappointment right from the start. I've no idea why she put this in the bewk.

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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.02.12 23:48

@tigger wrote:
Moa wrote:Just looked through the book, there is no pictures from their PDL holliday. There is only one picture of her beeing taken just before she disappered, taken the week before they left , in April 07.

There are only two pictures of Kate and Madeleine, and on one of them Kate is having a drink/glass of wine in one hand, and Madeleine in the other.. Both pictures taken when she was around one year old...

Two pictures of Madeleine and Gerry together.

There are alos 12 Pictures of Kate and Gerry together, without any children, and a few pictures of Kate alone, or Kate and friends.

Most pictures seem old, wouldnt it be more natural to put in the most reasont pictures of her, IF the books purpose was to make people look for her and help finding her? Old pictures of her wouldn't help that situation..

You hit the nail on the head, Moa. The happy family photo which is in the book most probably has Gerry pasted in together with the picture frame behind him. There simply don't seem to be many, if any, real happy family shots. But 12 pictures of just the two of them? Tell you enough, doesn't it? Wasn't this book supposed to be about Madeleine, but it is an auto hagiography of Kate.
The book does tell us helpfully how very difficult Madeleine was, needed attention 18 hours a day an cried all the time. They thought it was colic. Drs.??? And we are told they weren't sure what was wrong with her? Kate tells us too that sometimes the three of them sat in the kitchen, all crying....
It sounds as if Maddie was a big disappointment right from the start. I've no idea why she put this in the bewk.
I think you could be bob on, tigger... I certainly get the impression Madeleine was not 'as expected'. It is a well known documented fact that parents (mothers especially) of IVF children can feel curiously detatched from the children. It certainly seems to be the case here.

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"Ask the dogs, Sandra" - Gerry McCann to Sandra Felgueiras'The Last Photo': The key questions - Page 25 670379



Truth is artless and innocent - like the eloquence of nature, it is clothed with simplicity and easy persuasion; always open to investigation and analysis, it seeks exposure because it fears not detection.

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Post by rainbow-fairy on 11.02.12 23:50

@tigger wrote:
Moa wrote:Just looked through the book, there is no pictures from their PDL holliday. There is only one picture of her beeing taken just before she disappered, taken the week before they left , in April 07.

There are only two pictures of Kate and Madeleine, and on one of them Kate is having a drink/glass of wine in one hand, and Madeleine in the other.. Both pictures taken when she was around one year old...

Two pictures of Madeleine and Gerry together.

There are alos 12 Pictures of Kate and Gerry together, without any children, and a few pictures of Kate alone, or Kate and friends.

Most pictures seem old, wouldnt it be more natural to put in the most reasont pictures of her, IF the books purpose was to make people look for her and help finding her? Old pictures of her wouldn't help that situation..

You hit the nail on the head, Moa. The happy family photo which is in the book most probably has Gerry pasted in together with the picture frame behind him. There simply don't seem to be many, if any, real happy family shots. But 12 pictures of just the two of them? Tell you enough, doesn't it? Wasn't this book supposed to be about Madeleine, but it is an auto hagiography of Kate.
The book does tell us helpfully how very difficult Madeleine was, needed attention 18 hours a day an cried all the time. They thought it was colic. Drs.??? And we are told they weren't sure what was wrong with her? Kate tells us too that sometimes the three of them sat in the kitchen, all crying....
It sounds as if Maddie was a big disappointment right from the start. I've no idea why she put this in the bewk.
I think you could be bob on, tigger... I certainly get the impression Madeleine was not 'as expected'. It is a well known documented fact that parents (mothers especially) of IVF children can feel curiously detached from the children. It certainly seems to be the case here.

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Post by Guest on 12.02.12 17:38

@Tony Bennett wrote:
@emilyb3 wrote:In her 6th September statement she does say they went to the pool area before returning to the creche for the afternoon session.
Yes, but crucially, she never said that in any of her previous statements to the police, did she, emilyb3?

Maybe this is why Tavares de Almeida wrote in his report on the case on 10 September 2007:


The McCanns evolved their story to adapt to the police questions:

The media attention that has been given to the case and the search for information by the said media has led to an evolution in Madeleine’s parents’ statements. All the information that has been made public has contributed to the McCanns rebuilding and adapting their story to fit the eventual police questions. They have attempted to explain the forensic evidence that we have collected and are collecting.

Are they by any chance expecting to have to explain away yet more forensic evidence, SY have already collected and are even now collecting?
SY must be right on track, full steam ahead by now.
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Post by juliet on 12.02.12 19:30

You'd think, with all the McCann talk about this much-wanted, hard-achieved IVF baby, there would be a picture of Kate and her newborn. I have seen only one picture of a very new Maddie, but Kate certainly didn't look as if she'd just given birth, and it was Gerry who was holding the child. Was there perhaps a surrogate mother? Kate's pregnancy descriptions too are oddly airy fairy "I swam a lot" "It was all trouble-free"....
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Post by tigger on 12.02.12 20:48

@juliet wrote:You'd think, with all the McCann talk about this much-wanted, hard-achieved IVF baby, there would be a picture of Kate and her newborn. I have seen only one picture of a very new Maddie, but Kate certainly didn't look as if she'd just given birth, and it was Gerry who was holding the child. Was there perhaps a surrogate mother? Kate's pregnancy descriptions too are oddly airy fairy "I swam a lot" "It was all trouble-free"....

I had some suspicions that way. Surely it could have been one of the photographs in the book. Kate in a smock or something.
The photograph of Kate with a baby on her hip and a drink in the other hand - is that in the book? I'm not sure that's Maddie, could be the baby of a friend, looks like a party.

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Post by Guest on 12.02.12 20:59

@tigger wrote:
@juliet wrote:You'd think, with all the McCann talk about this much-wanted, hard-achieved IVF baby, there would be a picture of Kate and her newborn. I have seen only one picture of a very new Maddie, but Kate certainly didn't look as if she'd just given birth, and it was Gerry who was holding the child. Was there perhaps a surrogate mother? Kate's pregnancy descriptions too are oddly airy fairy "I swam a lot" "It was all trouble-free"....

I had some suspicions that way. Surely it could have been one of the photographs in the book. Kate in a smock or something.
The photograph of Kate with a baby on her hip and a drink in the other hand - is that in the book? I'm not sure that's Maddie, could be the baby of a friend, looks like a party.

Yes tatt picture is in that book ,it is one of two pictures of her and MBM together in the book..
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Post by Ribisl on 15.02.12 16:22

Some of the photos under scrutiny here appear to me to have been manipulated but that in itself isn’t really of much consequence except for the one or two that TM claim had been taken on the actual day M disappeared. I am not certain if that is the case, but if they did release them with specific reference to the date in question then they could indeed hold a key to what really happened to M.

As somebody has pointed out much earlier, it is near impossible to make an accurate comparison of photos taken under different conditions and maybe we are wasting too much time speculating? Children can look so different in these snap shots and the majority of these images are only really interesting to us because we want to get to ‘know’ this little girl and see proper justice done for her.

Please don’t think I don’t value your efforts though. I do believe you are doing a truly wonderful job in turning the public opinion over this case. As a late comer, I have an awful lot to catch up and many early hours of reading!
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Post by tigger on 16.02.12 8:02

@Ribisl wrote:Some of the photos under scrutiny here appear to me to have been manipulated but that in itself isn’t really of much consequence except for the one or two that TM claim had been taken on the actual day M disappeared. I am not certain if that is the case, but if they did release them with specific reference to the date in question then they could indeed hold a key to what really happened to M.

As somebody has pointed out much earlier, it is near impossible to make an accurate comparison of photos taken under different conditions and maybe we are wasting too much time speculating? Children can look so different in these snap shots and the majority of these images are only really interesting to us because we want to get to ‘know’ this little girl and see proper justice done for her.

Please don’t think I don’t value your efforts though. I do believe you are doing a truly wonderful job in turning the public opinion over this case. As a late comer, I have an awful lot to catch up and many early hours of reading!

Ribisi, one very simple argument to establish photoshopping has taken place on the great majority of photographs released to the public is the coloboma.
Last year the McCanns stated publicly that the 'defect' was hardly visible, only a small spot you could only see from close up.
Ergo: ALL photographs were this featured prominently must have been through a photoshop process to achieve the very visible coloboma. Long before this admission, it was clear that in many photos the coloboma moved position, which is impossible.
It was a trademark, a marketing ploy - and we have that from the horse's mouth so to speak.

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