Re: What do YOU think happened to Madeleine?

by JRP 30.01.17 13:43

I don't know what happened to Madeleine, but I believe she died while on holiday, and her death occurred before Thursday.

Perhaps if one of the senior police officers would look at all the evidence collected on this forum, we might start to get somewhere.
I would have thought any decent police officer would look at Madeleine's "disappearance" from all angles, yet here we are, almost 10 years on and the parents or even their entourage haven't been asked one question.
Yes, they have all made statements, but nobody in authority has ever challenged their stories.

I don't think all this protection would be awarded to these two doctors without a larger reason, the protection isn't simply for them, it's for someone else, a much larger fish with secrets to keep.

by **Tony Bennett** 30.01.17 13:59

Grande Finale wrote:@ May Muse

The Tapas was booked for the first time on Monday evening but when Maddie went to the creche in the afternoon they had to sign her out again 10 mins later, was she being "difficult" ?

REPLY: That is only relevant if you regard the crèche records as being 100% accurate.

Did she run out of the apartment at bedtime and hide in the bushes as the neighbours stated ?

REPLY: Did the neighbours state this? AFAIK this was only press reports from unnamed 'neighbours' - I don't think there is anything in the PJ files about this.

Sounds like MBM was hyperactive and wasn't co-operating with the plan to leave her behind and alone in the apartment on Monday night, they weren't going to get out for dinner that evening where they ?

REPLY: This is speculation based on (a) the assumed accuracy of the crèche records and (b) on the assumption that the neighbours' reports are accurate. IMO there is no basis for either assumption.

Where they tempted to slip her a sedative or a little something into her milk that night ? so they could go out on the piste with the group ?

REPLY: The only person independent of the Tapas 9 who claims to have seen Madeleine alive on Monday is Catriona Baker. Hmmm...

by JRP 30.01.17 15:19

Maybe someone in authority looked at the sheets that day, did a head count and with no Madeleine present she was signed out. Maybe they contacted the parents to check her whereabouts before signing her out.

by Basil with a brush 31.01.17 3:31

It's possible I've missed a thread relating more in depth to this one. I apologise if that's the case but, it would be far too interesting to read what everybody may think about the 'How?' and 'Where? regarding this.

How do you suppose she was hidden?

How exactly did they do that?

Where does she now rest?

Or (Lord forbid) she doesn't rest as an intact body at all.

Thoughts please

Basil

by Grande Finale 01.02.17 1:11

Tony Bennett wrote:
Grande Finale wrote:
The Tapas was booked for the first time on Monday evening but when Maddie went to the creche in the afternoon they had to sign her out again 10 mins later, was she being "difficult" ?

REPLY: That is only relevant if you regard the crèche records as being 100% accurate.

Yes I quite agree, so why would anyone fake the Monday pm creche records to show that she was signed out very shortly after she was signed in ? It was a major red flag if they had ever been questioned about it !

I think Sunday & Monday Creche records are genuine and if something happened on Monday night that only leaves Tues Wed & Thur to fake.
On two of those days MBM is never signed out & the other day Signing in and out occur on consecutive lines. These two lines could have originally been the gap between Am & Pm Later filled in ?

Did she run out of the apartment at bedtime and hide in the bushes as the neighbours stated ?

REPLY: Did the neighbours state this? AFAIK this was only press reports from unnamed 'neighbours' - I don't think there is anything in the PJ files
about this.

I don't personally think the answers lie solely in the PJ files sometimes rumour has it [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

Sounds like MBM was hyperactive and wasn't co-operating with the plan to leave her behind and alone in the apartment on Monday night, they weren't going to get out for dinner that evening where they ?

REPLY: This is speculation based on (a) the assumed accuracy of the crèche records and (b) on the assumption that the neighbours' reports are accurate. IMO there is no basis for either assumption.

So far I believe my speculation is holding up it is based on more than the above and it also makes sound sense.
ie an accident unfortunately happened Monday night the first time they left MBM alone.

Where they tempted to slip her a sedative or a little something into her milk that night ? so they could go out on the piste with the group ?

REPLY: The only person independent of the Tapas 9 who claims to have seen Madeleine alive on Monday is Catriona Baker. Hmmm...

The amount of people that definitely should have seen MBM on Tues Wed & Thur and DIDN'T is totally astounding IMO

PS. If the steel exec PE gave a photograph of his sons to the police showing MBM in the background then why isn't it in the police files ?

by jeanmonroe 01.02.17 1:26

I think what 'happened' was:

A) "The minor Madeleine McCann died in the apartment 5A of the Ocean Club resort, on the night of May 3rd of 2007;"

B) "It was performed a simulation of kidnapping;"

C) "In order to avoid the death [alarm] of the minor before 22H00, it was created a situation of the children's surveillance by the McCann while the children slept;"

D) "Kate McCann and Gerald McCann are involved in the occultation of the cadaver of their child Madeleine McCann;"

E) "At this moment, there seems that there aren't strong indicia that the death of the minor didn't happen due to a tragic accident;"

F) "From what was obtained until now, everything points out that the McCann, as self-defence, didn't want to deliver immediately and voluntarily the cadaver, existing a strong possibility that the same was transported from the initial place of deposition. This situation is susceptible to raise questions about the circumstances under which the death of the minor occurred."

by Basil with a brush 01.02.17 2:00

Still, are there any thoughts as to how they accomplished this concealment? How they moved her? Where is she now?

Isn't this the main subject for all to discuss, since we have all come to accept they are pretty much the only suspects?

Some of us part time sleuths may actually have some eye opening thoughts, that even the police may have missed.

Love to have all your thoughts.

Anticipating some (unlike the parents) believable senarios

Basil

by Versailles 02.02.17 12:10

I think she died in the apartment, some time before the third of May.
I think it was an accident that came from neglect. (given her drugs)

I think she was carried out to the sea by her father (I use that term loosely in this case..) This is where he was seen by Smith.

I dont think the others in the group know. The rogatory statements show that no other than Kate and Gerry checked on their three children.

i dont think she will ever be found, and I dont think anyone will be punished or even charged of her murder.

What I find strange about this scenario, is the complete lack of grief, remorse or sorrow that Kate and Gerry showed the days after.

If they loved Madeleine, and it was an accident, they should have been riddled with grief.

The way they never accepted any responsibility is beyond odd.
Parents will blame themselves, even if they are completely without blame.

"If we hadnt moved here, she would not have been killed in a car crash"

"If only I had kept him home from school today, he would not have been in that fatal accident on the playground"

This is how we parents blame ourselves.

by empath 02.02.17 13:09

I have a few thoughts on what may have happened.

1. Payne and Gerry are paedophiles and Maddie spoke out.

2. Kate lost her temper with Maddie and caused her a fatal injury.

3. The children were drugged to make them sleep and Maddie over dosed.

There is a BIG SECRET for reason.

by Basil with a brush 02.02.17 17:48

Versailles wrote:I think she died in the apartment, some time before the third of May.
I think it was an accident that came from neglect. (given her drugs)

I think she was carried out to the sea by her father (I use that term loosely in this case..) This is where he was seen by Smith.

I dont think the others in the group know. The rogatory statements show that no other than Kate and Gerry checked on their three children.

i dont think she will ever be found, and I dont think anyone will be punished or even charged of her murder.

What I find strange about this scenario, is the complete lack of grief, remorse or sorrow that Kate and Gerry showed the days after.

If they loved Madeleine, and it was an accident, they should have been riddled with grief.

The way they never accepted any responsibility is beyond odd.
Parents will blame themselves, even if they are completely without blame.

"If we hadnt moved here, she would not have been killed in a car crash"

"If only I had kept him home from school today, he would not have been in that fatal accident on the playground"

This is how we parents blame ourselves.

While I really appreciate your thoughts Versailles, I just have an image of the father with extremely long legs. When you say carried her out to sea, can you elaborate on that? I'm pretty sure you don't mean just let her slip into the surf (if they get any) as she would just wash up almost imediately. Think there's quite a bit more to it than that. Possibly smuggled into another cremation? I've read that somewhere, possibly Mr Amaral, but not sure. I havd a feeling the church has more to do with this, and it's driving me nuts. They're a law unto themselves for sure. Hard to investigate. And whatever happened to the priest who was at the local church they used in the resort?

by jacmac64 20.04.17 12:41

No doubt in my mind after reading a lot of the material on this case, madeleine met with an accident in apartment which was then covered up by mccanns and all Tapas friends, it is interesting to read that Gerrys sister actually announced to reporters that Kate was going to get charged with madeleines accidental death thinking

a while back, ...

I also think that is madeleine as was reported to say "why did you not come when sean and i were crying" the night before, well most parents would take that as a warning and not go out but that sentence was released for two purposes, to take into account an intruder/alleged paedophile and also the fact that madeleine was already dead and in order to cover this up they HAD to go out for the cover up to go through and madeleine to be "found missing" halfway through their meal.

Peter Hyatts embedded confessions is fascinating and leaves no doubt in my mind, also richard d halls numerous films leave no doubt in my mind.

Mccanns are being protected by someone - and one day that secret will come out... i wait in anticipation of justice for madeleine

by Bunnykins 20.04.17 13:11

jacmac64 wrote: it is interesting to read that Gerrys sister actually announced to reporters that Kate was going to get charged with madeleines accidental death a while back, ...

Is this true?

Also, I've been reading in another post about the coming's and going's to PDL of McCann friends and family in the few days after 3rd May. There seem to have been "words" between GM and mother-in-law and she left??? Odd that she left, eh? You'd want to stay close by your daughter immediately after the disappearance of your her child. I'm sure if she thought she wasn't needed or if she knew she'd be staying such a short time she'd never have bothered boarding the plane... nah

So, subsequent information seemed to indicate that the truth about Madeleine was shared amongst family members who were not present and that they are also culpable as a result.

Is that the general consensus here, that the truth about Madeleine was known by a larger circle of McCann family members (aside from Gerry's brother)?

I find it so hard to accept that and think that it could still remain a secret if that's the case. They must all be very afraid of something.

by Verdi 21.04.17 1:03

Bunnykins wrote:
jacmac64 wrote: it is interesting to read that Gerrys sister actually announced to reporters that Kate was going to get charged with madeleines accidental death a while back, ...
Is this true?

Also, I've been reading in another post about the coming's and going's to PDL of McCann friends and family in the few days after 3rd May. There seem to have been "words" between GM and mother-in-law and she left??? Odd that she left, eh? You'd want to stay close by your daughter immediately after the disappearance of your her child. I'm sure if she thought she wasn't needed or if she knew she'd be staying such a short time she'd never have bothered boarding the plane...

So, subsequent information seemed to indicate that the truth about Madeleine was shared amongst family members who were not present and that they are also culpable as a result.

Is that the general consensus here, that the truth about Madeleine was known by a larger circle of McCann family members (aside from Gerry's brother)?

I find it so hard to accept that and think that it could still remain a secret if that's the case. They must all be very afraid of something.

Bunnykins, it's here as reported by Martin Brunt of Sky News International of Rupert Murdoch empire - nudge nudge wink wink..

by sar 21.04.17 11:40

Verdi wrote:
Bunnykins wrote:
jacmac64 wrote: it is interesting to read that Gerrys sister actually announced to reporters that Kate was going to get charged with madeleines accidental death a while back, ...
Is this true?

Also, I've been reading in another post about the coming's and going's to PDL of McCann friends and family in the few days after 3rd May. There seem to have been "words" between GM and mother-in-law and she left??? Odd that she left, eh? You'd want to stay close by your daughter immediately after the disappearance of your her child. I'm sure if she thought she wasn't needed or if she knew she'd be staying such a short time she'd never have bothered boarding the plane...

So, subsequent information seemed to indicate that the truth about Madeleine was shared amongst family members who were not present and that they are also culpable as a result.

Is that the general consensus here, that the truth about Madeleine was known by a larger circle of McCann family members (aside from Gerry's brother)?

I find it so hard to accept that and think that it could still remain a secret if that's the case. They must all be very afraid of something.
Bunnykins, it's here as reported by Martin Brunt of Sky News International of Rupert Murdoch empire - nudge nudge wink wink..

thanks Verdi, as ever the Murdoch Harbinger of Death, Martin Crunt…..always around when there's bad news.~~[Remember when there was a false alarm and he turned up anyway?? Never mind EVRD dogs, he seems to be able to sniff out death!]~~ (Note the atmosphere as he announces the news……I'm a bit of a bighead and like to think of myself as quite empathic…..I'm not detecting the "Braying Mob", "Not Enough Lamposts / Hang Em' High" attitude, appreciate not everyone in crowd is an English speaker, but there is perhaps a sense of sadness, inevitability? Struggle with faith and beliefs, but perhaps a mea culpa then could have mean't a different future for everyone?

If your not familiar with the film The Counsellor then I'd advise you familiarise yourself with it, even if it's just for this scene.

by Verdi 21.04.17 12:38

sar wrote:
thanks Verdi, as ever the Murdoch Harbinger of Death, Martin Crunt…..always around when there's bad news.

Then I can recommend the perfect life partner - Clarence Mitchell! Another media humdinger with a taste for the victorian melodrama, always around the whiff of death - my advice, keep away from pesky dogs!

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

by Bunnykins 22.04.17 7:59

sar wrote:
Verdi wrote:
Bunnykins wrote:
jacmac64 wrote: it is interesting to read that Gerrys sister actually announced to reporters that Kate was going to get charged with madeleines accidental death a while back, ...
Is this true?

Also, I've been reading in another post about the coming's and going's to PDL of McCann friends and family in the few days after 3rd May. There seem to have been "words" between GM and mother-in-law and she left??? Odd that she left, eh? You'd want to stay close by your daughter immediately after the disappearance of your her child. I'm sure if she thought she wasn't needed or if she knew she'd be staying such a short time she'd never have bothered boarding the plane...

So, subsequent information seemed to indicate that the truth about Madeleine was shared amongst family members who were not present and that they are also culpable as a result.

Is that the general consensus here, that the truth about Madeleine was known by a larger circle of McCann family members (aside from Gerry's brother)?

I find it so hard to accept that and think that it could still remain a secret if that's the case. They must all be very afraid of something.
Bunnykins, it's here as reported by Martin Brunt of Sky News International of Rupert Murdoch empire - nudge nudge wink wink..

thanks Verdi, as ever the Murdoch Harbinger of Death, Martin Crunt…..always around when there's bad news.~~[Remember when there was a false alarm and he turned up anyway?? Never mind EVRD dogs, he seems to be able to sniff out death!]~~ (Note the atmosphere as he announces the news……I'm a bit of a bighead and like to think of myself as quite empathic…..I'm not detecting the "Braying Mob", "Not Enough Lamposts / Hang Em' High" attitude, appreciate not everyone in crowd is an English speaker, but there is perhaps a sense of sadness, inevitability? Struggle with faith and beliefs, but perhaps a mea culpa then could have mean't a different future for everyone?

If your not familiar with the film The Counsellor then I'd advise you familiarise yourself with it, even if it's just for this scene.

!!! Thanks for posting Verdi. Thanks also to sar for the fascinating film clip.

by sar 25.04.17 23:46

Your welcome Bunnykins, an appaling film, but there are some memorable scenes. It serves to reinforce my idea that we have less control in our lives than we'd like to image we have!

by Theslayer16 01.06.17 22:09

MODERATOR MESSAGE

This post was complete and utter rubbish. Nearly all of it was unsubstantiated, not supported by any evidence. Moreover, Theslayer16's theory on this thread today conflicts not only with much other evidence collected here on CMOMM, but even conflicts with his/her own first post made on 27 April.

It is a very sad state of affairs when such individuals join up here merely to make sport of those who have worked patiently and hard to unravel this appalling crime and mystery.

You may think yourself very clever, Theslayer16. Not many people in this world , however, will think it very clever to disrupt the work of a forum that has done so much to get nearer the truth.

Theslayer16 has been banned

- Moderator

by polyenne 01.06.17 22:35

Theslayer16 : I have one observation on your theory.
When do you think Madeleine died ?
Rigor Mortis commences initially around 4-6 hours after death starting in the head area.
If she died on the Sun/Mon as generally accepted on this forum, then by Thursday she would be stiff and possibly decomposing (apologies but factual).
Hence my question to you.

by Phoebe 01.06.17 23:22

polyenne wrote:Theslayer16 : I have one observation on your theory.
When do you think Madeleine died ?
Rigor Mortis commences initially around 4-6 hours after death starting in the head area.
If she died on the Sun/Mon as generally accepted on this forum, then by Thursday she would be stiff and possibly decomposing (apologies but factual).
Hence my question to you.

Rigor mortis is a transitory condition. Depending on the ambient temperature it is usually well established by 48 hours after death but when decomposition sets in rigor relaxes and the body becomes pliable again. In warm conditions the process is quicker so if Madeleine died on Sunday/Monday and was kept in the apartment rigor would not still be present by Thursday. However, decomposition unpleasantly odourous so I very much doubt they managed to keep a body in the wardrobe.

by Phoebe 02.06.17 1:16

Looking again at Jane Tanner's statement this struck me.
Q) "And did you leave your roadside door locked or was it unlocked?
Reply "Yes, yeah well we made, as I said we made sure that was because you could dead lock it as well and that was one of our concerns was Ella waking up and wandering, I mean like I say we didn’t think she would but that was probably our, you know so she couldn’t get out the actual apartment, that was err so we did make sure that was dead locked every night.”

Remember the old cloze tests from school, where you guessed the missing words? I'd bet my bottom dollar what's cut off after "So she couldn't get out of the actual apartment, that was err (OUR BIGGEST WORRY). I wonder if Madeleine did get out one night and have a terrible fall. (The pictures Verdi posted on another thread of the patio balcony and those hard slippery tiles made the parent in me shudder). Could they have considered trying to pass such an accident off as a fall from the sofa, before abandoning that idea? It might explain why there was cadaver scent in the garden and behind the sofa. A fall alone indoors at night, especially with sedation involved would be negligent, but a fall over the balcony with sedatives involved and the possibility of a broken child lying dying in the open because her parents were too darn lazy to walk the extra steps which locking the patio would cause would really be unforgivable. Just a thought.

by polyenne 02.06.17 6:04

Thank you Phoebe for your additional detail as regards rigor.

by Sinan19 02.09.17 11:21

Sometimes I'm not sure what to think, because there are so many layers and possibilities in MBM's case.

I'm mostly leaning toward this theory though:

Madeleine suffered death from an accident on either the evening of the 3rd of May (I think it's doable) but more likely before that day. It possibly could have been a result of medication gone wrong (anaphylactic shock maybe), or simply a fall. Being a mother of a child Madeleine's age there is a number of possible scenarios, I could even imagine the girl getting a big knife in her hand, one of the McCann's possibly chasing after her to take it from her, they grab her by the arm, she falls, the knife causes a deadly wound. I could imagine KM freaking out, possibly even wanting to call the police, an ambulance, but GM, maybe forcefully, stopped her - possible reasons for me would either be a history of drugging the children for the night (maybe they have already gotten a dose of something they were waiting to kick in) or in a worst case, any form of physical or sexual abuse that could have been detect during an autopsy that sure would need to take place.

I think, IF the child died in the evening of the 3rd it is possible that not all of the Tapas7 had any idea of what was going on, I suspect that David Payne could possibly have been in the know, though because I find his statements read like he's really been sweating, also it sounds very creepy AND there is a lot of unneccesary detail to the situation he has allegedly seen Madeleine that evening, which reminds me very much of Kate and Gerry McCann's interviews and their focus on setting a very detailed scene for the listeners.

I suppose GM took care of Madeleine and made KM clean up, planning on hiding or deposing of the body in the night of the 3rd, I have no idea when exactly or how though. It confuses me a lot and I keep thinking he must have been incredibly lucky somehow, or a mastermind. It is the 'when exactly' and 'how' that I always trip over because in my mind something does not seem to fit (especially in that regard I always like to hear different theories).

He possibly came back at the restaurant in time to send Kate to check on the children, who then manipulates the window and runs back announcing "They've taken her".

As for Matt Oldfield - I think he never offered, nor checked on the McCann children that night and Gerry convinced the Tapas7, and Oldfield obviously, to say he did it because they feared the police could accuse them of neglect if nobody checked in on them for about an hour. Oldfield, possibly unaware (at the time) that the McCann's could be involved with Madeleine's disappearance agrees, and a timeline did serve all of the Tapas after all - they did leave their children alone on more than one evening after all (I seriously doubt there have been constant and thorough check ups ever).

After that I'm not sure about the timeline and if it would have been possible for GM and DP to pretend to search for Madeline and dispose of her body that might just have been left at the very first possible hiding place GM had come across earlier. Or possibly during the time that GM and KM were not at the resort in the early morning (if I remember that correctly). I have no idea where or how they could have deposed of the body, though. GM seems so sure that her boy will never be found, it sometimes makes me wonder if there still are 'remains' to be found somewhere out there. (Scary thought)

Then there is one more thing that I'm not sure if I remember it correctly, please help me out, because I can't seem to find it, either.
Didn't KM once call the police department to say she wanted the twins tested for drugs and later that same day GM called and told them they have changed their mind? (I hope I've not gone completely bonkers)

I think I can see guilt and sadness in KM, not all the time, but I think it's there. I don't see it as much with GM, possibly he's just better at hiding it, unless he's a total psychopath. It seems to me it's really getting to her and that guilt must be eating away at her. I mean, she really looks like shit these days. I think it's possible that she called to agree on testing the twins because she feels guilty, that maybe in that moment she wanted to be caught. Maybe not for the death of her daughter but at least for drugging her children, to be caught for doing something she should not have done.

As for the Tapas, if Madeleine truly died before the evening of the 3rd, then I guess they must have all been in on it. I mean, no way to explain why your daughter has pretty much dropped off the earth. If she died on the 3rd, maybe it only started to dawn on them later. If they all did have something to lose (I'm thinking sexual abuse here) they might have all realized there's no way they could speak up without being thoroughly investigated as well. From the Gaspar statment it does sound like it was an open secret - if it's true.

I'm sorry for my very muddled thoughts.

by Abracadaver 21.10.17 8:18

I have posted very little since joining. I've essentially been a sponge, reading and absorbing all the penetrating insights this forum and its members has to offer. When surrounded with such a wealth of knowledge and experience in researching this unseemly mess, I didn't really feel sufficiently 'qualified' to offer much by the way of comment. It is amazing just how much effort so many of you have expended in your quest for the truth, and justice for Madeleine. If it were possible, it almost restores a small amount of "faith" in humanity for me.

Anyway, finally, I feel ready to answer the question -- "What do YOU think happened to Madeleine?" for myself.

Sadly, there are not many scenarios I can imagine -- that would call for the full force of Her Majesty's Government and Secret Services to essentially "annexe" the investigation from Portugal, in quite the extent and the drastic lengths they have gone to from the very beginning [and even more sadly it would seem, from some way before it] -- to protect two McNobodies and their everso eloquent band of tapas-munching wine-guzzling "friends". Or maybe accomplices is a more appropriate designation?

I had pretty much narrowed it down [in my own personally "purported theory" only of course] to an accidental death, involving medical experiments -- or -- the more forboding and yet likely more realistic acceptance that Dr Katerina Gaspar is not a liar.

Let's say that, up until very recently at least, it was already my belief that not only was this not a "family" holiday in any sense of the word, but that the "many comings and goings" reported at Apartment 5A - related to those of a distinctly more "adult" nature. Yet, whilst the nature of these events taking place during this holiday were very much "adult themed" -- that they were certainly not exclusive of the involvement of children.

It is my belief that, something, and the involvement of someone(s) far more important than a group of up-themselves doctors, is what is being covered up here. These are the only two scenarios I can imagine that can explain the sheer might and power of the political and Establishment machine that immediately mobilised in support, and continues to enable and empower the protection of the blatantly responsible parties, and those we do not know the names of, but likely would know them if we heard them mentioned! After all, it is a "matter of National Security", isn't it?

That was where I was up to in my thinking, until I read Dr. Martin Roberts' piece "[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]".

Equally important, is a thorough read of the goldmine of further investigative thinking and discoveries throughout both pages of the comments section, as Dr. Roberts and other brilliant minds thrash out theory and dexterously bat away increasingly desperate strawmen, and a most unsettling realisation begins to sink in.

Unless you believe in the 2 in 500 odd Billion chances of said "timing glitch" with the Wayback machine -- then that charming old rogue Jim Gamble prophetically already knew Madeleine was not going to be around for much longer, when creating the mccann.html page to announce her disappearance in late April 2007.

So either CEOP is "the abductor" -- or they know who was. Or, more to the point -- who it was going to be.

How very sinister, that an organisation which sets itself up to appear on the surface as having as its very statement of purpose to "protect" children -- seems to have rather more experience in protecting those who abuse them. It appears this disgusting operation is akin to a Gatekeeper. Making examples of the "low-lying fruit" on the foodchain who are caught downloading a few unsavoury images, whilst ensuring that anything affilliated with certain "Westminster Rings" or other Establishment circles, is swiftly hidden behind the sofa.

And it leads me to the one thing that more than any, I hoped not to have to confront.

It is one level of sickness and depravity, to think of what "could have" been happening to poor Madeleine at the hands of those she is supposed to be able to trust, leading to an unintentional and tragic "disaster" -- but quite another entirely should it turn out to involve foreknowledge, necessitating foreplanning, on the part of someone(s).

Gerry wasn't there to "enjoy" himself.

Kate knew that "it" happened "under other circumstances". "The bastards" who were "with" Madeleine had "taken" her.

David Payne revealed that "we knew something was going to happen, but could never imagine it would be something like this!"

For me at least, on top of all that I'd already learned from Dr. Roberts and reading here at this forum, that article referenced above, and the highly enlightening discussion that follows it -- was the missing piece that made my heart sink, confirming the most horrible of pictures, and leads to one inevitable conclusion.

Monsters are firmly in control of the highest levels of our Establishment and State Machinery. They roam freely amongst us, looking just as human as we do on the outside -- but on the inside -- their hearts are black as night, and hard as granite.

As Gerry "doesn't mind" and is such a devoted lover of free speech, consider this my currently purported theory.

by MayMuse 21.10.17 13:05

A good post [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] thanks, and for the reminder of Monday Monday

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

by Doug D 21.10.17 13:09

Abracadaver:

David Payne revealed that "we knew something was going to happen, but could never imagine it would be something like this!"

Where has this come from?

by MayMuse 21.10.17 14:21

Doug D wrote:Abracadaver:

David Payne revealed that "we knew something was going to happen, but could never imagine it would be something like this!"

Where has this come from?

It's from Paynes statement ..his own words just like he said he didn't think this forum best place to discuss other things or words to that effect...I think it was the rog interviews? Stand to be corrected.

by Doug D 21.10.17 14:54

Not in his 4th May nor rog. statements that I can see.

It's showing as a direct quote, but I don't think I have ever come across it before.

by Verdi 21.10.17 15:41

MayMuse wrote:
Doug D wrote:Abracadaver:

David Payne revealed that "we knew something was going to happen, but could never imagine it would be something like this!"

Where has this come from?
It's from Paynes statement ..his own words just like he said he didn't think this forum best place to discuss other things or words to that effect...I think it was the rog interviews? Stand to be corrected.

David Payne's rogatory interview - 11th April 2008

1485 "Is there anything that you consider pertinent or relevant to establish the material truth''

Reply "Err the, there are a few things but I don't think this is the right forum for bringing those up.'
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Hardly equates to "we knew something was going to happen, but could never imagine it would be something like this!"

Perhaps member Abracadavar could provide the source of the quotation. Otherwise edit his/her post to clarify.

by **Jill Havern** 21.10.17 16:12

David Payne, 41: Senior research fellow in cardiovascular sciences at Leicester University. Helped run the Find Madeleine campaign after May 3.

Like his wife, he has never given an interview but broke his silence last week to say: "We know they didn't do it. One of our party saw Madeleine being abducted. We were waiting for something to happen but didn't in our worst nightmare think it would be this."

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