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Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

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Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by HiDeHo on 02.01.11 23:51

I compiled these images to show how the perception of employees regarding Madeleine's personality is very different to what we have heard was reality.

Also, how similar she was in appearance to the other tapas children.

We KNOW she was mistaken by Miguel Mattias at the Paraiso as he was convinced it was Madeleine dancing with her father and we know that Madeleine was not there as per the CCTV pics so he saw one of the OTHER tapas children.

One of the cooks claimed to have seen Madeleine every day at the creche next to the tapas but that was for the younger children...Madeleine went to the other creche near reception.

I cannot find ONE credible witness statement that proves Madeleine was alive after Sunday.

http://madeleinemccann.aimoo.com/Discrepancies-by-Topic/Who-Saw-Madeleine-Credibility-Statement-Highlights-1-780252.html

Maybe these images etc show how easy it was for the witnesses to be mistaken

Jane Tanner referred to Ella as shy.
http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic41.html
00.45 4078 “Madeleine, how much of Madeleine did you see?”
Reply “Not that much really because only really because she didn’t come to breakfast, so
we saw the other children at breakfast and their lunch, but because they tended to
have breakfast and lunch separately, the only time I really saw her was at, erm, after
high tea when we were playing in the play area, was the main times that I probably
saw her during the week”.
4078 “And how would you describe Madeleine?”
Reply “Very, she was very lively, a very lively, happy, a happy little girl really. Because,
probably a bit [color=red]of, we were almost a bit worried how Exxxx and Madeleine would get
on, because Exxxx’s quite shy and and sensitive and Madeleine’s very, erm, I don’t know
whether you can call a child vivacious, but, you know, sort of very, erm, outgoing
and. But, I mean, they did, they got on and they had a whale of a time.






Tapas Children Comparison








I added sunglasses for comparison













Fátima María Serafim da Silva Espada

Profession: Cleaner

Saw Madeleine and family outside 5A heading for lunch at Paynes Sunday
CREDIBLE

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post184.html#p184
Date : 2007: 05: 08

Name: Fátima María Serafim da Silva Espada

Profession: Cleaner
She had the opportunity to observe the photos of Madeleine that were being circulated everywhere and has no hesitation in confirming that she saw the child before her disappearance in the company of her siblings and mother and father, although in the latter case she only observed him from a distance.

She states that this took place on Sunday 29th April, just before she finished her morning work shift (13.30) as she had the afternoon off that day. At about 13.15 she went to help her mother, who was cleaning apartment I of the same block (5) situated on the first floor. She clearly remembers seeing the girl accompanied by her siblings and mother leave their apartment (5 A) and walk to the stairs leading to the floor above. She was very close to them at a distance of about 1 metre, observing their movements for a few moments because she was charmed by them. Madeleine led the way with a plate (perhaps plastic) in her hand bearing a piece of bread. As regards the clothes she was wearing she only remembers a skirt but cannot recall its description. She noted, because she thought them nice, the type of shoes she was wearing, tennis shoes, light in colour she thinks, which had little lights along the soles, which lit up each time she stepped on the ground. Her siblings followed behind her, wearing the same king of shoes and each holding a piece of bread in their hands, their mother followed behind them without holding their hands. She seems to remember that the mother was also carrying a plate. Moments afterwards, perhaps the time it took to close the apartment door, the father came out and also headed to the apartment upstairs. When asked, she does not remember whether the father pulled the door closed or locked it with a key.

After she chatted to her mother about there being many children in the apartments, she had the idea that the family in 5H were friends of Madeleine’s family who were staying in 5 A.
http://madeleinemccann.aimoo.com/Discrepancies-by-Topic/Summary-of-Witnesses-that-saw-Madeleine-1-837083.html







Cecilia Paula Dias Firmino do Carmo
PR Millenium

Saw Madeleine at breakfast

Mistaken identity?



- saw MBM at breakfast when she worked on Tue, Wed & thurs, but does not specify exactly when seen (Note: conflicting evidence on where breakfast was taken by the family, and when)

-
Probably mistaken identity as McCanns did not go to breakfast during the week when she was working


http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post137.html#p137

Cecilia Paula Dias Firmino do Carmo

Date/Time: 2007/05/06 22H00


Occupation: Public Relations

Place of Work: Millenium restaurant, OC.

When asked, she says that she knows the parents, the siblings and Madeleine. She received them for breakfast on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, she does not know whether they went for breakfast on Sunday or Monday, as these were her days off.

She says that breakfast was served between 08.00 and 10.00 and that the McCanns would arrive between 08.00 and 09.00.

She says that the McCanns appeared to be a normal family and that the relation between the members of the family was very good. Madeleine appeared to be very attached to her father and was always clinging on to him. Given her public relations function she was always very nice to the guests and would get involved with the children, saying that Madeleine was very shy and did not respond to her. She says that the only contact she had with guests was at the entrance to the Millenium restaurant, she did not have a view of the tables or the Buffet area.







Catriona Baker -

last saw MBM before 6 pm on 3rd May, when collected by Kate -

Credibility?
Catriona Treasa Sisile Baker (1/2), Childcare worker, Ocean Club, p. 253
Catriona Treasa Sisile Baker (2/2), Childcare worker, Ocean Club, CR 5 p. 3

Credibility of witness not confirmed (questionable creche records and invitation and trip to Rothley in November after which her Rogatory statement has many 'issues' imo)






Maria M A Jose -

saw MBM 4.30pm on 3rd May, having tea at the restaurant. -

Mistaken Identity (child she refers to went to creche next to tapas, maybe Lilly?)
Maria M A Jose -

Maria Manuela Antonia José, Cook, Tapas restaurant, saw Madeleine may 3rd ± 16.30 hrs., p. 261

saw MBM 4.30pm on 3rd May, having tea at the restaurant. -
Was mistaken and probably saw Lilly at the creche next to the Tapas

after seeing pictures of the missing child on television, that she realised who the girl was, referring to her as Madeleine (the name used by the journalists) remembering only at that moment that she had seen her during the meals provided to the children at the crèche, and which take place at the restaurant where she works and during arrivals at the crèche where Madeleine spent the day, located immediately next to the restaurant.the last time she saw Madeleine was at approximately 16.30 on 3rd May 2007 when she was having dinner with the other children in their part of the restaurant, as she did each day of that week

Another example of mistakenly thinking that one of the other tapas children was Madeleine?







Jeronimo Salcedes
- bartender,

saw MBM on the 3rd May near the restaurant. (note: question about this because although it appears in the 'snippets' post in the staff thread in the Files section, his actual statement saye he couldn't recall having seen them) -

Cannot remember seeing her

Jeronimo Salcedes

- bartender, saw MBM on the 3rd May near the restaurant. (note: question about this because although it appears in the 'snippets' post in the staff thread in the Files section, his actual statement saye he couldn't recall having seen them) -

Cannot remember seeing her

Jeronimo T. R. Salcedas (1/3) (snippet), Barman, Tapas bar, Ocean Club, saw Maddie may 3rd. 16.45 hrs., page 125
Jeronimo T. R. Salcedas (2/3), Barman, Tapas bar, Ocean Club, page 233
Jeronimo T. R. Salcedas (3/3), Barman, Tapas bar, Ocean Club, CR 5 p. 22
- He saw the missing Madelaine, for the last time, yesterday at 16.45h next to the restaurant; ?

In spite of having already observed many photos of Madeleine he claims that he could not state with any certainty that he had seen her at any moment, the same goes for whom he now knows to be her twin siblings. The specifics of his work do not leave him with much time to focus his attention on the children that were around, although as he has stated previously he worked with children of Madeleine’s approximate age for almost four years.

Since Madeleine’s disappearance, I have seen her picture many times in the media, but I cannot honestly affirm that I remember seeing her in person before the disappearance from the Ocean Club. There were many children and I never paid much attention to any of them.







Georgina Jackson -

gave MBM a tennis lesson with other children on Tue 1st May , 10-11am

Non Specific.
Georgina Jackson - gave MBM a tennis lesson with other children on Tue 1st May , 10-11am. - After being shown the younger picture, can it be taken for granted that she would remember Madeleine actually being in the group or did she 'presume'?

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post1779.html#p1779

She relates it was one of the preferred activities of the McCann couple in that they had several lessons throughout the days and up to the date of the disappearance of their daughter Madeleine, it being that the child also had a class, on Tuesday, 1 May (10-11h00), that class [in which] she was among a group of children was conducted by the deponent.







Emma Wilding -
saw Gerry book MBM in to creche on the 3rd May and also saw her in the afternoon -

Does not know Madeleine well
- Mistaken (thought Gerry picked her up from creche- was Kate)
Emma Wilding - saw Gerry book MBM in to creche on the 3rd May and also saw her in the afternoon -

Does not know Madeleine well
When questioned she states that on
May 3, 2007 it was the father that took Madeleine, as was customary, between 0900 and 0930; she remembers that she just said “hello” to him, because as Madelede (sic) did not belong to her group she did not talk to him very much.

She only noticed Madeleine and not her father, and nothing seemed abnormal or unusual. ?

She is not sure whether during the morning Madeleine’s group had outdoor activities, mainly at the pool;
she does remember that around 1230 Madelew’s (sic) father went to fetch her for lunch. (Kate picked up Madeleine)

When questioned, she states that on
Wednesday May 2, her group and Madeleine’s group went to the beach, but she is not sure if Madeleine was in the group
or not, and does not remember having seen anybody specifically taking direct and close-up photographs of the children.

She remembers that during the afternoon of May 3 Madeleine was at the Mini Club, but she does not remember at what time she arrived, and if on that day Madeleine accompanied the other children at 1645 as was customary.

She is also not sure whether her parents joined her during the snack, as was customary.







Elisa Dias Romao -

saw MBM every lunchtime, worked Tue, Wed & Thurs

Non Specific
Elisa Dias Romao -

saw MBM every lunchtime, worked Tue, Wed & Thurs -

Confusing statement but claims this

-On this same day at around 17H30, she remembers that she left the reception to collect her earnings and she does not remember having seen Madeleine or her parents enter or in the interior of the TAPAS.



http://themaddiecasefiles.com/post11634.html#p11634
Regarding the group linked to the couple and the missing child and her two siblings, she only became aware afterwards that Madeleine’s siblings were twins. The witness remembers seeing them in the Garden Club, near the pool and the Tapas restaurant.

They appeared a normal family, as did the entire group. She did not notice any strange or suspicious details.

When questioned, the witness clarifies that she worked at the Garden Club reception on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Thursdays, at a time covering the lunch hour. She remembers seeing the couple with their children as they had to pass the reception to leave the area. She next saw them head in the direction of the apartment where the witness believes they had lunch.

She believes that they left always between 12H30 and 13H00.

Around 14H00 the couple would return around 14H00, in fact, most of the couples would return their children to the crèche around this time. She does not know if the three McCann children were together given their different ages.

When questioned, the witness states that the parents would spend the majority of the time inside the Garden Club, in activities such as playing tennis, as they were a group of four couples (the reservation was always made for 9 adults). They would only all meet together for dinner.

The couple would only leave the Garden Club after the children’s tea, which was served by the nannies in that area around 17H00/18H00.

It was only after this period that they would leave with the children in the direction of their respective apartments.

Questioned, states that she was left with the notion that the four couples always took their children when they went out or that they (the children) never left the area without their parents.

Her normal working day was from 09.00 – 17.00 and therefore she was never present when the group was dining.

Her working day was normal that day and she did not see anything of interest to the investigation.

On this same day at around 17H30, she remembers that she left the reception to collect her earnings and she does not remember having seen Madeleine or her parents enter or in the interior of the TAPAS.






Charlotte Pennington -

told MBM stories and talked to her on 3rd May -

Questionable Credibity
Charlotte Pennington -

told MBM stories and talked to her on 3rd May -

Credibility of witness not confirmed (Claims to have seen the twins in their cot and yet early statement says she did not enter
apartment.)

Charlotte Elizabeth Anne Pennington, Childcare worker, Ocean Club, p. 378






Other Witnesses

Bridget O'Donnell
Did not claim to see Madeleine (all pink and pretty was Sharks mini tennis)

Jeremy (Jes/Jez) Wilkins
Jeremy Wilkins (1/3), On holiday in Praia da Luz, had conversation with G. McCann at ± 9.10 hrs., didn't see J. Tanner, p. 494
Jeremy Wilkins (2/3), On holiday in Praia da Luz, had conversation with G. McCann at ± 9.10 hrs., didn't see J. Tanner, p. 3407
Jeremy Wilkins (3/3), On holiday in Praia da Luz, had conversation with G. McCann at ± 9.10 hrs., didn't see J. Tanner, CR 5 p. 25


Stephen Carpenter
Stephen Carpenter, on holiday in Praia da Luz, rogatory interview 21.04.2008, CK 3 p. 31

I**** was in the group for children between three and four years old, her crèche worker was Emma and it was only after the disappearance of Madeleine McCann that I realised that she was in the same group as I****

SC: Hummm... I remember talking to Gerry, because I had to go and fetch I*** and they were playing in the small garden and he was (inaudible), I***** and I thought it was Maddie, I am not absolutely sure but, he seemed to me to be a decent type, a good father, affectionate with his children, very easy to talk to, very good with the children, with a comfortable manner even when talking to I**** about little things, completely dedicated to the children.
.


Mistaken
Not in Files

Miguel Matias
,

manager of the beach-side Paraíso restaurant - Mistaken



Alice Stanley & Chris Unsworth
- Took children sailing May 3rd but were only interviewed unnoficially.


No 'credible' sightings of Madeleine does not prove she wasn't there but they do not prove she WAS

imo
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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by YNG on 03.01.11 0:50

Another fascinating collation of details HiDeHo. thumbsup

The likeness in the last pic has always interested me and the sunglasses make them look even more alike.

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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by Judge Mental on 03.01.11 1:07

HiDeHo wrote: ''Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?''

thinking

There isn't any for Thursday.

Or Wednesday, Tuesday, Monday, or weekend for that matter.

And may one say, that apart from the main nine witnesses who would obviously say that they can collectively prove that Madeleine was there, and that she has definitely has been abducted; the forensics officers would not be able to back them up and stand shoulder to shoulder with the Tapas 9 on this. Because they could not find any indisputable proof that Madeleine had ever set foot into apartment 5A. It must not have been on any clothes, shoes, nor the bedding she slept in on the May 3rd.

Indeed, it has been alleged that the only way the parents could produce anything at all with Madeleine's DNA on, was for Gerald McCann to trek back to their Rothley home to recover a pillowcase. Which he managed to do at the same time as his wallet was stolen by an evil perverted monster. However, the evil perverted monster thief made sure that the wallet was eventually returned to McCann.

By some circuitous route no doubt, but one is always ready to give credit where credit is due. Therefore one will say that this was very nice and goodly of the evil perverted monster thief. And if anybody ever finds out who this evil perverted monster thief is, please would you explain how very lucky they are to have got off with this.

Team McCann could very easily have sent people to hunt them down and flush them out from wherever they were hiding, and possibly have had him locked up for many years. They have the power to track and hunt people down for repeating what the PJ have said on websites, or for simply being on holiday in Praia Da Luz at the same time as they were! So getting away wth nabbing a McCann wallet is pretty damned good in my estimation.
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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by Judge Mental on 03.01.11 1:13

@YNG wrote:Another fascinating collation of details HiDeHo. thumbsup

The likeness in the last pic has always interested me and the sunglasses make them look even more alike.

Peas in a pod, YNG. They are like peas in a pod.

O'Donnell found all the little girls to be pink and pretty and quite indistiguishable from one another. Not that she and Wilkins had the greatest powers of observation of course. big grin

The teeth are quite remarkably alike, if only because it is extremely rare to find childrens' teeth so similar whilst looking at every child's teeth in the world. Never mind in a very small group of people who know each other.
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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by HiDeHo on 03.01.11 1:15

Judge, I differ from you slightly, regarding Sunday.

I do believe that the cleaners daughter saw her outside the apartment on the way up to the Paynes for lunch.


I would consider this reasonable proof that Madeleine did not sleep in her bed Thursday and possibly Wednesday night also (cleaner made bed on Wednesday morning)



http://madeleinemccann.aimoo.com/When-Did-Madeleine-Disappear-BEFORE-5-30pm-or-AFTER/BEFORE-5-30pm-Thursday-or-AFTER-Opinion-HiDeHo-1-857582.html
Goncalo Amaral interview

What about Maddie's bed?

It carries no signs that anyone was in it. Nor does the chair or the bed under the window. And there are no imprints from strangers
.
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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by kangdang on 03.01.11 1:19

@YNG wrote:Another fascinating collation of details HiDeHo. thumbsup

The likeness in the last pic has always interested me and the sunglasses make them look even more alike.

Aye, was justing thinking the very same...uncanny likeness

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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by HiDeHo on 03.01.11 1:52

If you saw all, or any, of these three tapas children in and around the Ocean Club (as well as other blonde haired grls)



Then you were shown this picture....



Would you be able to identify, from memory, whether you saw Madeleine?




http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/maddie/293894/Maddies-dance-with-dad-Gerry.html


ONE of the last people to see missing Madeleine McCann has told how she danced with her dad on the seafront just hours before she disappeared.

Restaurant owner Miguel Matias, who has not spoken out until now, said the McCann family seemed like a perfectly normal family.

Kate and Gerry spent an hour at restaurant Paraiso on the beach of Praia da Luz with their holiday friends and children, who ate their dinner there.

Dad Gerry played with Madeleine in the sand in front of the balcony, pushing her on a swing before calling her over for food and an ice-cream.

Mr Matias said: "It was a perfectly normal, relaxed, happy, family scene. The little girl was even dancing on the esplanade with her dad to the sound of music that was playing.

Madeleine wasn't there...It was one of the other tapas children he saw.
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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by Judge Mental on 03.01.11 2:30

HiDeHo wrote: ''Judge, I differ from you slightly, regarding Sunday.''

It is allowed m'dear big grin

And one can quite easily see why you would say this. Have you ever thought of working for Leicester police or any other police force who is having difficulty in understanding why Amaral has felt forced to write a book to tell us the truth, or why Tony Bennett continues to batte on in the face of all kinds of sick and perverse threats and intimidation?
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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by HiDeHo on 03.01.11 2:44

40 years ago, my ex did a 'Be a Private Detective' course by mail.

He did all the 'following' of 'suspects....I did the exam.

He passed.

Odd how everyone he followed was heading for the pub though...

Maybe I could start my own agency

(know anyone looking for PI with credentials in someone else's name?)
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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by Upsy Daisy on 20.05.11 14:01

very un'cann'y resemblance if you pardon the pun! Very easily mixed up for sure.....unless the staff had one to one communication with any of the children you would not be able to easily distinguish them from one another unless a specific incident happened, ie. one of them fell over, cut themselves or was crying excessively, you would pass them off for one another easily.
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Re: Where is the proof Madeleine was alive on Thursday evening?

Post by Guest on 20.05.11 15:27

and this is the problem and would explain why so many different photos were released, instead of one good one taken that week.
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