Re: Discussion thread for Bernt's SECOND interview with James English

[PeterMac]

In Cat Baker's first statement on 6th May 07, she said the parents accompanied Madeleine " a few times in certain outside activities ".
The only photo they have produced that is related to creche activities is the tennis balls photo and that is suspect.

"Suspect" is hardly the word for it !!!
read Chapter 22 where i tried to tackle it, but failed.

https://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/chapter-22-tennis-balls-photo.html

[AnneCGuedes]

In Cat Baker's first statement on 6th May 07, she said the parents accompanied Madeleine " a few times in certain outside activities ".
The only photo they have produced that is related to creche activities is the tennis balls photo and that is suspect.

"Suspect" is hardly the word for it !!!
read Chapter 22 where i tried to tackle it, but failed.

https://whatreallyhappenedtomadeleinemccann.blogspot.com/2016/08/chapter-22-tennis-balls-photo.html

The hat, the balls and moreover the sandals ! Is there any evidence the picture was made in PdL ?   After all that photo and the "last" one don't appear, without explanation, on the CD of photos taken in PdL that GMC gave to the PJ. These two photos are also not included in "Madeleine", although K claims that the one with the tennis balls was one of GMC's favourites.

[AnneCGuedes]

Absolutely correct, my point was Cat mentioned Madeleine by name twice as being there on that day.
If it turns out that she was lying, she will be in big trouble.

She could always argue that M had been signed in by her parents... who would better know whether they had dropped their child there !
Some of the group noted that days were similar... because of the routine. For nannies as well !

[crusader]

Nobody has as yet, to explain the one girl in Cat's group, said to be Madeleine, at the creche on the afternoon of 3rd May.
The creche records for the afternoon show 2 girls and 2 boy's, Madeleine and Ella, William Totman and Alexander Mann.
Ella was picked up at 4-30 to go to the Paraiso cafe leaving Madeleine and 2 boy's.
If it wasn't Madeleine, who was it?

[Milo]

#524
I have been revisiting some of my own notes and documents since reading Bernt’s book. I collect stuff under themes. I remember the “keys and doors drive me crazy” theme noting that Gerry “went out through the front door to supermarket and returned through the front door and locked it” on that date (but not 2:30 AM).

[pinkgladioli]

Nobody has as yet, to explain the one girl in Cat's group, said to be Madeleine, at the creche on the afternoon of 3rd May.
The creche records for the afternoon show 2 girls and 2 boy's, Madeleine and Ella, William Totman and Alexander Mann.
Ella was picked up at 4-30 to go to the Paraiso cafe leaving Madeleine and 2 boy's.
If it wasn't Madeleine, who was it?

From Cat Baker’s rogatory-

My original deposition also mentioned that Madeleine offered more attention to the boy’s in the club

Although from us checking her previous statements made previously on this thread we found there is no mention of the above, then thinking about it again, she is clarifying it’s her original deposition, so I’d say she is 100% meaning the deposition she made where Robert Murat was the translater,  

Well well well!

[crusader]

@pinkgladioli wrote
Although from us checking her previous statements made previously on this thread we found there is no mention of the above, then thinking about it again, she is clarifying it’s her original deposition, so I’d say she is 100% meaning the deposition she made where Robert Murat was the translater,  

Well well well!




What are you thinking pinkgladioli?

[pinkgladioli]

@pinkgladioli wrote
Although from us checking her previous statements made previously on this thread we found there is no mention of the above, then thinking about it again, she is clarifying it’s her original deposition, so I’d say she is 100% meaning the deposition she made where Robert Murat was the translater,  

Well well well!




What are you thinking pinkgladioli?

I don’t think I need to spell out what I’m thinking, I’d say it looks pretty obvious and par for the course!

[crusader]

Is that the end of the discussion? I have no idea what you mean, I am not a mind reader, have some curtesy.

[Justice for Maddie]

All roads lead to Murat. I'm pretty sure he knows something and helped the McCanns out in PdL.




And speaking of Ella. Is there a picture of Ella? Could the rumor be true that they replaced Maddie with Ella at some point in the week?

[crusader]

It's not impossible Ella could have stood in for Madeleine at some point, but not on 3rd.
The Murat saga has not been fully resolved in my opinion.

[crusader]

I spelt courtesy wrong didn't I, never mind.

[Justice for Maddie]

Nobody has as yet, to explain the one girl in Cat's group, said to be Madeleine, at the creche on the afternoon of 3rd May.
The creche records for the afternoon show 2 girls and 2 boy's, Madeleine and Ella, William Totman and Alexander Mann.
Ella was picked up at 4-30 to go to the Paraiso cafe leaving Madeleine and 2 boy's.
If it wasn't Madeleine, who was it?

I'm sure it wasn't Maddie and the records are fake. 
What about the creche records from Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday? Can we really believe them (bad handwriting etc.)? Did anyone other than the childcare workers and Tapas 7 see Maddie in the creche/public?

[crusader]

I must agree that the creche records are a mess, quite a lot of the times entered have definitely been written by the same person.

[Nina]

The creche records were a scruffy piece of paper covered in names and times that are difficult to read, ok the originals might be a little clearer but hardly anything that would stand as evidence of anything really.
The children were there for a week and being looked after by new nannies who loved to party. There were some photographs of the party girls online in the early days but can't find them now. So these hung over responsible adults had a mixture of children coming and going so how did anyone know who was who?
Ask yourselves this. When you see a child do you think who it is or do you first see what sex the child is and then what they are wearing followed by how they are behaving. And then do you remember it. Unless you really knew the child could you swear the child you see is the child you think it is or the child you are told it is?

[Justice for Maddie]

Why did Kate sign Maddie in at 14:45 with Kate McCann and sign Maddie out at 17:30 with Kate Healy on Wednesday? The other days are not readable. Something is not right here.

[crusader]

Wednesday was also the day that Cat nanny signed 4 children out of creche.
3 at lunchtime and 1 in after lunch at 2.45.
Sunday and Monday parents signed their child in and out.
Tuesday Ella was signed in by Cat at 2.30.
Thursday Cat signed Ella out 4.30

[pinkgladioli]

All roads lead to Murat. I'm pretty sure he knows something and helped the McCanns out in PdL.




And speaking of Ella. Is there a picture of Ella? Could the rumor be true that they replaced Maddie with Ella at some point in the week?

What ever McCann’s motivation re his comment on this video I recon had the desired effect he was intending!

[Justice for Maddie]

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE_ANOMALIES.htm
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/CRECHE.htm

creche records anomalies
- Monday 
Gerry and Kate signed Maddie in and out (9:30-17:30)
- Tuesday
Gerry signed Maddie in at 9:30 and out at 12:30 /Tennis 14:30
No sign in for Maddie at the afternoon/early evening Why? Where was Maddie?
- Wednesday
Nanny signed Maddie in at 9:30 and out at 12:30
Kate McCann signed Maddie in at 14:30 and Kate Healy signed Maddie out at 17:30?

The handwriting seems to be from the same person.
Where was Maddie on Tuesday afternoon/early evening?
Was she alive on Wednesday? Or did something happen on Tuesday or even earlier?

[crusader]

Madeleine was signed in by Gerry 2.30 Tuesday afternoon, but not signed out.
The twins were signed in by Kate 2.30 Tuesday afternoon and signed out by Kate at 5.30.

[Justice for Maddie]

Madeleine was signed in by Gerry 2.30 Tuesday afternoon, but not signed out.
The twins were signed in by Kate 2.30 Tuesday afternoon and signed out by Kate at 5.30.

Yes, but why no sign out on Tuesday? Just a mistake?

[crusader]

Who knows, on Wednesday there were 4 signed out by cat including Madeleine.
The creche sheets were a mess.
Tuesday, Madeleine wasn't the only one not signed out,
Richard Naylor, William Totman and Ella O'Brien weren't signed out either.

[pinkgladioli]

Who knows, on Wednesday there were 4 signed out by cat including Madeleine.
The creche sheets were a mess.
Tuesday, Madeleine wasn't the only one not signed out,
Richard Naylor, William Totman and Ella O'Brien weren't signed out either.

Is it not Richard Mann?
Or is that not the Fathers name and his child is called Alexander Mann?

[crusader]

Yes, my mistake, Richard Mann.

[Clishmaclaver]

Yes, my mistake, Richard Mann.

Having just looked at previous posts on the forum in relation to the creche records, I saw that a comment was made about Alexander Mann being signed in as Richard Mann, i.e for Tuesday 1st May at 2.50 p.m.  Richard is, indeed, the father.

I must say, many of the posts from 2012 on 'The Creche Sheets' thread are excellent and I've been most impressed by the work that several of the members did back then. They're well worth looking at if you wish to save time and get a great summary.

I saw something interesting about 2 of the sheets for the twins' creche having been withheld by the P.J., i.e. a.m. on 29th April and a.m. on 3rd May.

[Justice for Maddie]

Yes, there is a possibility that Maddie fell into the flower bed under the parents bedroom and then was taken inside the apartment.

[Nina]

Yes, there is a possibility that Maddie fell into the flower bed under the parents bedroom and then was taken inside the apartment.

I have always thought that this was a very strong possibility. There was a low wall and metal balustrade right in front of the patio door into the parent's bedroom. The one that had to be mended at the start of the holiday. Also the bougainvillea shrub the other side of it is the one Kate mentioned having pruned, like you do on holiday. 



https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/5A_PHOTO_REPORT.htm

[Nina]

This is the little garden the other side of the above photos, 

[Jill Havern]

This shows the embarrassing lengths Mark Anderson/Antonio Lopez Ribeiro will go to on Lizzy's group to descredit Bernt and his witness

Antonio Lopez Ribeiro

I have taken a lot of flack recently for sticking up for Lizzy Hideho Taylor, and for calling out BS theory of the graveyard and his mysterious wiotness. So I found this picture of the apartment car park in 2008, I want someone [preferably Bernt himself, or someone from CMOMM] to show me the logistics of how Bernt Stellanders witness saw Gerry McCann leaving the apartment, carrying a black bag, detect how tall he was, he was not local, and they saw him in the car park.

OK so they have a clear view of the car park in the short distance between the car park entrance, so did they stand there watching Gerry leave apartment 5A, walk along the walkway to the car park, turn left [actually its right, not left] into the car park, and then walk away, cross the road at the white box, and turned right at end of the road. [Incase your understanding of PdL is not the best, that route takes you to a crossroads, where the road on the left corner is Rua do Cemeterio, the road that Matt and Gerry took, according to Bernt. So Gerry had to wait then for the person to leave and walk away ahead of them before heading to the cemetery? And where was Matt at this point?

Points to consider

The trees and the number of them and the restricted view

the wall blocking the view of the apartment door as well as the shutter, and the inability to determine height of person

the wall in front of the trees

the entrance width approx 15 ft - 20 ft 4.5m - 6m, im being generous that its a two way entrance, the avg car width is 6ft 6 / 2m

avg human walks at 1.42m p/sec

that means that the witness had approx a 5 sec window at best of a clear view of car park, eg no restrictions thats if the entrance is a two way, if its not then the distance is more like 10ft / 3m

take into account the distance required to walk to car park from apartment [time to walk said distance]

take into account the view the witness had of the shutter and the other shutters, again tree restricted





Except Mark's 'research' was done on Block 4...and the McCanns were in Block 5  
Let's take a look at the difference, shall we?

The reconstruction video was taken at the correct and exact spot and the witness looked straight at apt 5a in bock 5.


Notice how carefully Cherry and Paul James, allegedly the best researchers on HDH didn't even bother to check Mark's nonsense!