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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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The Coronavirus Debate - Page 3 Mm11

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The Coronavirus Debate

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Post by Liz Eagles 28.05.21 14:14

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Why the f are people lining up to be injected with this crap?
People are hypnotised crazy.

Probably because they will not be going anywhere until they have had at least two doses of an approved vaccine?

Paul - Ehrlich Institute (Government think tank)
Proof of complete vaccination protection must be available in embodied or digital form in German, English, French, Italian or Spanish.

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Post by BlueBag 28.05.21 15:52

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Yes, I appreciate your point about freedom of speech but what does it really mean other than another string of words?  Like democracy, there is no such luxury in reality.
In China... a forum like CMOMM would not be allowed to exist.

That aside, I know you disagree but I maintain there has to be some form of censorship or civilisation will be brought to it's knees -
I disagree to the deepest depths of my being.

Who decides what is to be censored?

History is littered with the deaths of millions who died because they said or believed what their leaders/opponents didn't like.

"I disapprove of what you saybut I will defend to the death your right to say it" - attributed to Voltaire.

Your support for China is puzzling - I don't like it but feel free to carry on as I will to call at an evil system.
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Post by Verdi 28.05.21 16:52

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Your support for China is puzzling
I DO NOT SUPPORT CHINA !!!

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Post by JimbobJones 28.05.21 17:05

You KNOW that these VAERS numbers only show maybe 5 percent of the true amount of adverse reactions. It is a VOLOUNTARY database. Imagine being so sick, the last thing you want to do is go to the trouble of figuring out how to report your condition . . . . if you even know about the system in the first place.
Absurd.

Why do people TRUST these crooks who bought you all this despair and destruction? After all, it is as easy to find a CORRUPT SCIENTIST as it is to find a CORRUPT POLITICIAN. There is NO REASON to believe this nonsense just because a "scientist" says it is so.

They have BEEN CAUGHT LYING so many times.
Thinkabout it.
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Post by BlueBag 28.05.21 17:22

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Your support for China is puzzling
I DO NOT SUPPORT CHINA !!!
Apologies.. it really sounded like you did.
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Post by BlueBag 28.05.21 21:24

Anyone who thinks that Bill Gates was not one of the ones driving all this needs to LISTEN to what Cummings said the other day.

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UK Column News yesterday highlighted it starting at the 30:20 mark.

Absolutely gob-smacking.
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Post by JimbobJones 29.05.21 8:20

The man has bought his way into "influencing" whatever he wants. Unfortunately, he comes from a long line of psychopathic eugenecists. Not good.

It was already generally available  knowledge, for EVERYBODY, if only they could put two and two together. 

When billyboy wants something he pays billions first, then comes to see the people he has bought.
The fools think his money comes with no strings.
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Post by Verdi 29.05.21 13:24

Did Covid leak from a Wuhan lab, after all?

Virologists had been adamant that coronavirus began in nature until this new evidence emerged

By Nicholas Wade 29 May 2021 • 11:42am

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Where did the Covid virus come from? President Biden this week asked the US intelligence community to inquire into the origin of the pandemic, including in particular the possibility that the virus leaked from a lab in China.

Given that the pandemic started in the Chinese city of Wuhan, which is home to China’s leading laboratory of bat virus research, the possibility of lab escape was obvious from the start. Yet for the past year mainstream media around the world have ignored this common sense possibility in favour of the scenario that the virus jumped naturally to people from some animal host.

The dam-burst dissolution of this long prevailing mindset was precipitated by a May 14 letter in the journal Science, in which 18 leading scientists declared that lab escape was a viable theory and should be taken seriously. The stage for the sudden shift in views had been set three months earlier when the World Health Organization sent a team to Beijing to explore the origin of the virus. The team, which the Chinese government  hand-picked and led around by the nose, reported that it was “extremely unlikely” that the virus had escaped from a lab and “likely to very likely” that it had emerged naturally.

But this was not quite the propaganda victory the Chinese may have hoped for. What became clear in the wake of the WHO team’s conclusions was that the Chinese, after a year of presumably intensive search, had been unable to provide a single scrap of evidence that the virus had emerged naturally. The SARS1 epidemic left copious traces in the environment, including the bat population that harboured the virus, the animal species to which it first jumped, and the 20 or so mutational changes made as it adapted to humans. Strangely, the SARS2 virus has left not a single such trace. For the first time since the pandemic began, the natural emergence scenario began to look a little shaky.

Right from the start, there were two plausible explanations for where the Covid virus might have come from. The decoding of its genome in January 2020 showed it belonged to a well known family of bat viruses called beta-coronaviruses. One member of this family caused the SARS1 epidemic of 2002 by jumping first from bats to civets, an animal sold for meat in Chinese wet markets, and from civets to people. A second virus set off the MERS epidemic of 2012 by infecting camels and then people.

When Chinese authorities announced that the first cases of Covid had occurred at the wet market in Wuhan in December 2019, it was an easy assumption that the new virus, SARS-CoV2 or SARS2 for short, had followed the same route as SARS1 to becoming a human pathogen. The wet market connection was soon broken – Chinese researchers reported earlier cases in Wuhan with no link to the wet market. But that seemed not to matter when so much further evidence in support of natural emergence was expected shortly.

Wuhan, however, is home of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, a leading world centre for research on coronaviruses. So the possibility that SARS2 had escaped from the lab could not be ruled out. Two reasonable scenarios of origin were on the table.

From early on, public and media perceptions were shaped in favour of the natural emergence scenario by strong statements from two scientific groups.

“We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that Covid-19 does not have a natural origin,” a group of virologists and others wrote in The Lancet on February 19, 2020, when it was really far too soon for anyone to be sure what had happened. Scientists “overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife,” they said, calling on readers to stand with Chinese colleagues on the frontline of fighting the disease.

Contrary to the letter writers’ assertion, the idea that the virus might have escaped from a lab invoked accident, not conspiracy. It surely needed to be explored, not rejected out of hand. A defining mark of good scientists is that they go to great pains to distinguish between what they know and what they don’t know. By this criterion, the signatories of the Lancet letter were behaving as poor scientists: they were assuring the public of facts they could not know for sure were true.

It later turned out that The Lancet letter had been organised and drafted by Peter Daszak, president of the EcoHealth Alliance of New York. Dr Daszak’s organisation funded coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. This arguably acute conflict of interest was not declared to The Lancet’s readers. To the contrary, the letter concluded: “We declare no competing interests.”

Like Dr Daszak, virologists around the world had much at stake in the assigning of blame for the pandemic. For 20 years they had been creating viruses potentially more dangerous than those that exist in nature. They argued they could do so safely, and that by getting ahead of nature they could predict and prevent natural “spillovers,” the cross-over of viruses from an animal host to people. If SARS2 had indeed escaped from such a laboratory experiment, a savage blowback could be expected, and the storm of public indignation would affect virologists everywhere, not just in China. “It would shatter the scientific edifice top to bottom,” an MIT Technology Review editor, Antonio Regalado, said in March 2020.

A second statement which had enormous influence in shaping public attitudes was a letter (in other words an opinion piece, not a scientific article) published on March 17, 2020 in the journal Nature Medicine. Its authors were a group of virologists led by Kristian G. Andersen of the Scripps Research Institute. “Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus,” the five virologists declared in the second paragraph of their letter.

Unfortunately this was another case of poor science, in the sense defined above. Viruses can be manipulated in ways that leave no defining marks. Dr Andersen and his colleagues were assuring their readers of something they could not know.

Science is supposedly a self-correcting community of experts who constantly check each other’s work. So why didn’t other virologists point out that the Andersen group’s argument was full of holes? Perhaps because in today’s universities speech is far from free. Careers can be destroyed for stepping out of line. Any virologist who challenged the community’s declared view would risk rejection of their next grant application by the panel of fellow virologists that advises the government grant distribution agency.

The Daszak and Andersen letters were amazingly effective. Articles in the mainstream press repeatedly stated that a consensus of experts had ruled lab escape out of the question or said it was extremely unlikely. Mainstream newspapers all have science journalists on their staff, as do the major networks, and these specialist reporters are supposed to be able to question scientists and check their assertions. But the Daszak and Andersen assertions went largely unchallenged.

With the virologists’ letters shaping mainstream opinion, the alternative scenario of lab escape went largely unheeded, despite its plausibility. This mindset was reinforced when then President Trump declared the virus had escaped from the Wuhan lab, thus polarising the discussion.

Why would anyone want to create a novel virus of greater pathogenicity? Virologists argue they can get ahead of a potential pandemic by exploring just how close a given animal virus might be to making the jump to humans. These enhancements of viral capabilities are known blandly as gain-of-function experiments but are so obviously dangerous that from 2014 to 2017 the US government placed a moratorium on funding them.

With coronaviruses, there was particular interest in the spike proteins, which jut out all around the spherical surface of the virus and pretty much determine which species of animal it will target. In 2000, Dutch researchers, for instance, earned the gratitude of rodents everywhere by genetically engineering the spike protein of a mouse coronavirus so that it would attack only cats.

At the Wuhan Institute of Virology in China, virologists have been doing exactly these kinds of experiments. The programme is headed by Dr Zheng-li Shi, known as Bat Lady in China because of her intense interest in bat viruses. Dr Shi gathered many coronaviruses from the bats that live in caves in Yunnan in southern China. She then took the spike protein genes from various viruses and inserted them into the genomes of other viruses. The goal was to explore the natural ability of the various spike proteins to attack human cells. As with other gain-of-function studies, the idea was to explore the genetic pathways by which an animal virus might jump to humans, and thus help forestall an impending epidemic.



Dr Shi tested her viruses out not on real people but on cultures of human cells or on humanised mice. These are mice that have been genetically engineered to carry in the cells of their airways the human protein that’s the target of the SARS1 and SARS2 viruses.

But this programme may have put her on track to create viruses far more infectious than she realised, possibly including SARS2.

“It is clear that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was systematically constructing novel chimeric coronaviruses and was assessing their ability to infect human cells and human-ACE2-expressing mice,” says Richard H. Ebright, a molecular biologist at Rutgers University and leading expert on biosafety.

“It is also clear,” Dr Ebright says, “that, depending on the constant genomic contexts [ie. the particular viral backbone] chosen for analysis, this work could have produced SARS-CoV-2 or a proximal progenitor of SARS-CoV-2.”

How do we know for sure that this is what Dr Shi was doing? Because, by a strange twist in the story, she was funded by grants from the National Institutes of Health, the US equivalent of the Medical Research Council. These grant proposals, channelled through Dr Daszak, and a matter of public record, make clear that she was testing the ability of various spike proteins to infect humanised mice.

In an interview on December 9, 2019, just before the outbreak of the pandemic became generally known, Dr Daszak talked in glowing terms of how researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology had been reprogramming the spike protein and generating chimeric coronaviruses capable of infecting humanised mice.

“Well I think… coronaviruses – you can manipulate them in the lab pretty easily,” he said. “Spike protein drives a lot of what happens with coronavirus, in zoonotic risk. So you can get the sequence, you can build the protein, and we work a lot with Ralph Baric at UNC to do this. Insert into the backbone of another virus and do some work in the lab.”

Dr Baric is a leading coronavirus researcher in the US and had earlier trained Dr Shi in how to create novel coronaviruses by inserting the spike protein gene of one into the backbone of another. He is also a signatory of the May 14 letter in Science calling for investigation of a possible lab leak. “You can engineer a virus without leaving any trace,” Dr Baric said in an Italian television interview last September. “The answers you are looking for, however, can only be found in the archives of the Wuhan laboratory.”

“It’s definitely not acceptable,” Dr Shi said of the Science letter signatories’ call to see her records. “Who can provide an evidence [sic] that does not exist?”

Not only was Dr Shi generating chimeric viruses – those made from a mixture of two viral genomes and thus potentially having novel properties – she was doing so in what would now be argued were unsafe conditions, even though they were in line with international rules. Despite many photos online of her working in a bubble suit in the highest-level safety lab, known as a BSL4, all her coronavirus work was done at lower safety levels, she said in an interview with Science, including one known as BSL2.

Despite the fancy acronym, BSL2 doesn’t require very much. You have to wear a lab coat and gloves, do experiments under a hood, put up a biohazard warning, and that’s about it.

“It is clear that some or all of this work was being performed using a biosafety standard  –  biosafety level 2, the biosafety level of a standard US dentist’s office  – that would pose an unacceptably high risk of infection of laboratory staff upon contact with a virus having the transmission properties of SARS-CoV-2,” says Dr Ebright.

There is a long history of viruses escaping from even the best run laboratories. The smallpox virus escaped three times from labs in England in the 1960s and 1970s, causing 80 cases and three deaths. Dangerous viruses have leaked out of labs almost every year since. Coming to more recent times, the SARS1 virus has proved a true escape artist, leaking from laboratories in Singapore, Taiwan, and no less than four times from the Chinese National Institute of Virology in Beijing.

Concern about safety conditions at the Wuhan lab was not, it seems, misplaced. According to a fact sheet issued by the State Department on January 15, 2021, “The US government has reason to believe that several researchers inside the WIV became sick in autumn 2019, before the first identified case of the outbreak, with symptoms consistent with both Covid-19 and common seasonal illnesses.”

Comparing the two scenarios

The fact that Dr Shi was manipulating coronaviruses in arguably inadequate safety conditions establishes a plausible case that the SARS2 virus might have escaped from her lab. But this case falls short of proof, which, if it exists, is most likely to be found in the sealed records of Dr Shi’s lab. Thus there is no direct evidence for either the natural emergence or lab escape scenario. In the absence of such evidence, the best approach is to take some salient facts about the pandemic and ask which of the two scenarios provides the better explanation.  Here are three such tests:

1. Origin

The bats that harbour the closest known relatives of SARS2 live in caves in Yunnan in southern China. If the pandemic had first infected people living round the caves, that would strongly favour natural emergence. But it broke out 1,500km away in Wuhan, at a time of year when bats go into hibernation. Under the natural emergence scenario, it’s hard to see how the virus might have emerged somewhere outside Wuhan, and then popped up in the city without leaving any trace of its real origin.

Under the lab escape scenario, explanation is no struggle: researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology were cooking up hyper-dangerous viruses in arguably inadequate safety conditions, and one escaped.

2. Natural history

Viruses jumping to new hosts usually take a lot of time, and many mutations, before perfecting their adjustment to the new target species. This process has been mapped in detail for the SARS1 virus. But researchers looking for the same process of adaptation in SARS2 made a strange discovery. From the moment it first appeared, the SARS2 virus was almost perfectly adapted to human cells and has hardly changed at all since.

This is hard to explain in the natural emergence scenario. But from the lab escape scenario it’s pretty obvious. The virus was being grown in humanised mice, so of course was well adapted to people from the start.

3. The Furin cleavage site

Without getting too deeply into the details of the SARS2 virus’s anatomy, there is a small region of its spike protein, called the furin cleavage site, which is coded for by 12 units of its 30,000-unit genome.  

A virus usually acquires inserts like this by recombination – the accidental exchange of genomic units with a related virus when both invade the same cell. But no other known sarbecovirus – that’s the name of SARS2’s family – has this 12-unit insert. A virus cannot usually acquire, by recombination, an element its family does not possess.

The insert also contains entities known as arginine codons, of a variety which is common in humans but not in coronaviruses like SARS2.

Proponents of natural emergence argue that the virus could have picked up the insert from human cells after it had jumped to people. Maybe, but no one has yet found the infected human population in which the virus might have evolved this way.

In the lab escape scenario, the insert is easy to explain. “Since 1992 the virology community has known that the one sure way to make a virus deadlier is to give it a furin cleavage site,” writes Dr Steven Quay, a biotech entrepreneur interested in the origins of SARS2. At least 11 such experiments have been published, including one by Dr Shi. And the human-preferred arginine codons are routinely supplied in lab kits, so would be used by anyone who synthesised the 12-unit insert in the lab.

“When I first saw the furin cleavage site in the viral sequence, with its arginine codons, I said to my wife it was the smoking gun for the origin of the virus,” said David Baltimore, an eminent virologist and former president of the California Institute of Technology. “These features make a powerful challenge to the idea of a natural origin for SARS2.”
So who was at fault?

The lab escape scenario explains the facts above rather more easily than does natural emergence. So let’s ask whose actions should be scrutinised,  if the virus did indeed escape from a lab.

The first in line are Dr Shi and her colleagues. They were generating dangerous viruses in low level and arguably unsafe conditions. True, they were following the same international rules as are used by virologists everywhere. But they should have made their own assessments of the risks they were running.

Second in line for rebuke are the Chinese authorities, who have done their utmost to conceal the nature of the tragedy and their responsibility for it.

Third are virologists around the world who knew better than anyone the dangers of enhancing natural viruses but couldn’t resist the temptation. Their assurance that the benefits were real and the risks containable were premature:  the benefits have been inconspicuous and the risk, if SARS2 indeed escaped from a lab, catastrophic.

What should happen now? The Chinese authorities have been under no pressure to open up their records because, until now, the world’s media have complaisantly accepted the natural emergence scenario. China would cease to get a free ride if credible scientific bodies like the Royal Society and the US National Academy of Sciences, either separately or jointly, were to appoint expert groups to examine both scenarios of origin. A strong conclusion by these and other institutions in favour of exploring the virus’s origins would for the first time put the onus on China to cooperate.

Given the nature of authoritarian states, China is unlikely to yield easily to the emerging new view of the pandemic’s origin. But the prospect of becoming the world’s pariah for the foreseeable future might go some way to deter further stonewalling.

Nicholas Wade has worked on Nature, Science and the New York Times. He is the author of Where Covid-19 Came From, forthcoming from Encounter Books

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Post by Doug D 29.05.21 14:02

Verdi post above snipped:
 
 The goal was to explore the natural ability of the various spike proteins to attack human cells. As with other gain-of-function studies, the idea was to explore the genetic pathways by which an animal virus might jump to humans, and thus help forestall an impending epidemic…………………….
 
How do we know for sure that this is what Dr Shi was doing? Because, by a strange twist in the story, she was funded by grants from the National Institutes of Health, the US equivalent of the Medical Research Council. These grant proposals, channelled through Dr Daszak, and a matter of public record, make clear that she was testing the ability of various spike proteins to infect humanised mice.

In an interview on December 9, 2019, just before the outbreak of the pandemic became generally known, Dr Daszak talked in glowing terms of how researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology had been reprogramming the spike protein and generating chimeric coronaviruses capable of infecting humanised mice.

“Well I think… coronaviruses – you can manipulate them in the lab pretty easily,” he said. “Spike protein drives a lot of what happens with coronavirus, in zoonotic risk. So you can get the sequence, you can build the protein, and we work a lot with Ralph Baric at UNC to do this. Insert into the backbone of another virus and do some work in the lab.”

Dr Baric is a leading coronavirus researcher in the US and had earlier trained Dr Shi in how to create novel coronaviruses by inserting the spike protein gene of one into the backbone of another. He is also a signatory of the May 14 letter in Science calling for investigation of a possible lab leak. “You can engineer a virus without leaving any trace,” Dr Baric said in an Italian television interview last September. “The answers you are looking for, however, can only be found in the archives of the Wuhan laboratory.”

 
But surely that good, trusted and completely believable old Dr Fauci only last week categorically denied this when up before the Senate  (or somesuch) Committee???????!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by sequested 29.05.21 14:13

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Post by sequested 29.05.21 14:13

As always, follow the money.
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Post by Silentscope 29.05.21 14:45



Biden now wants the investigation into the Origin of COVID-19 that he denounced Trump for.
Facebook allows posts on the subject again after previously banning them.

‘The truth is out there’?
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Post by Verdi 29.05.21 16:10

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
Video ^^^ embedded..



hat

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Post by sequested 29.05.21 16:12

Thanks Verdi, have trouble on mobile
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Post by BlueBag 29.05.21 16:12

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Biden now wants the investigation into the Origin of COVID-19 that he denounced Trump for.
Facebook allows posts on the subject again after previously banning them.

‘The truth is out there’?
More of the same.... "the pandemic is real".

It's not.

And Sweden, Texas and Florida plus quite a few others have shown it is not.
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Post by sequested 29.05.21 16:14

“The majority of those in hospital with Covid are the unvaccinated”.
Coercion is good !!
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Post by Verdi 29.05.21 16:28


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Post by JimbobJones 29.05.21 16:52

. . . there is NO POINT basing a judgement on the sworn testimony of a LIAR. A LIAR whos weapons are poison and dishonesty.

Unless of course, they dont really want to know the truth.
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Post by Silentscope 29.05.21 18:14



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Post by Tony Bennett 29.05.21 18:53

Dr Anthony Fauci is a Jesuit. Jesuit-educated since the age of five. Thus it is likely that his conduct is Jesuitical. As a matter of interest both the President of the U.S. ('Dementia Joe') and the all-powerful Speaker of the House (Nancy Pelosi) are also lifelong Roman Catholics.

This helps to explain Joe Biden's enthusiasm for Ireland and his near-hatred of the U.K.

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Post by BlueBag 30.05.21 11:11

BBC wrote:Vaccines Minister Nadhim Zahawi tells the BBC's Andrew Marr it would be irresponsible not to consider compulsory jabs for NHS staff

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Compulsory jabs for NHS staff.

If this happens it won't stop there.

This just keeps getting more outrageous.

I hope there is an NHS staff backlash.
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Post by BlueBag 30.05.21 13:53

Massive protest in London yesterday.... silence from the media.

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Post by Tony Bennett 30.05.21 14:06

The BBC managed to find space on the news yesterday, however, to cover a few thousand people protesting in Rio de Janeiro against President Bolsonaro's Covid19 policies. The BBC doesn't like Bolsonaro (Brazil) because he is conservative and patriotic in his views and policies. The last two anti-lockdown and anti-vaccine passport marches in London have each attracted three or four hundred thousand protestors. Not to even mention these is a clear breach of the BBC's duty to provide impartial broadcasting

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Verdi 30.05.21 15:02

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Post by Tony Bennett 30.05.21 17:03

Hmmm, I think these were all, or mostly, from smaller demos last year or earlier this year. Yesterday's and the last one a few weeks back each saw hundreds of thousands of protestors marching through the streets of London. The BBC consistently does not show such footage nor give estimates of actual numbers taking part. None of the above links does so. The virtual non- reporting of these gigantic protest marches is a national disgrace, the sort of media bias we'd expect from a Hitler or a Stallingborough or Xi Jin Ping. Neither have other TV or print media covered these demonstrations

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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