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Constitutional monarchy vs republic: which is the best form of government?

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Post by BlueBag 29.04.21 19:38

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:The British royal family are popular around the world, they command respect and admiration.

What Charles I or Henry VIII or mad King George did or didn't do centuries ago have no bearing on today's royalty.

There are of a course ways to overthrow a royal constitution but the question is - why would anyone wish to see the present British family ousted, aside from a republican rebellion, with nothing to gain but a vapid victory.  What harm do they do to the nation?

If you have a strong objection to inordinate weatlh forsome reason, my personal complaint would be with filthy rich pop stars, film/television stars,  sports persons, Richard Branson, politicians, chiefs across the broad range of public service, Bill Gates blah .

They don't contribute anything good forthe nations international image, whereas the British Royal Family ....

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If there was ever a referendum to vote a republican state, I don't think it would get very much support.

You don't have to like the royal family, just recognise their worth.
PS... why is everyone impressed by soap opera bling?
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Post by crusader 29.04.21 19:49

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote.
Charles is a madman who wants to do away with basic freedoms (but not his) in the name of Climate Change.


Charles is not a madman, he's a very gentle eccentric gentleman.
He may talk about climate change and carbuncle buildings, but he only wants the best for his people.


When he talks about climate change, the powers that be listen out of politeness, in reality, he can do nothing apart from practice what he preaches on his own land.
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Post by AnneBarnard 29.04.21 21:19

I think the United Kingdom would become a far worse place if the monarchy were to be abolished.

I'm not a huge fan of Prince Charles though, because of things like his climate/eco leanings etc. I would much rather Prince William took over after our Queen (plus as I understand it, that would be a shot in the bows for Harry's children ever getting titles big grin).

I also never understood - and will never understand - the fawning over Diana. She wasn't perfect, far from it; she didn't fit in and it was a shame that she married into a family that she clearly wasn't suitable for. I don't have a problem with Camilla. She and Charles seem very happy and that's fine with me.

I'm glad this discussion was moved into its own thread. It should never have sullied Prince Philip's discussion.

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Post by crusader 29.04.21 21:31

I like Prince Charles and Camilla, he will not stand aside for William, he knows his destiny and he will do his duty.
I agree about Diana, she was not blameless in her marriage to Charles.
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Post by Verdi 30.04.21 2:15

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
Yes they are worth billions of taxpayers money.
You know full well I didn't mean their wealth in terms of pounds shillings a pence but as you mention it, which I knew you would - I would rather see tax payers money awarded to what I consider to be an institution that upholds the true values of Great Britain.

Anything rather than given to politicians, public servants, hired and retired seniors within the public sector and anyone else aforementioned.

An accountable political system is nothing but a utopic dream, you know that as well as I.  There is no such animal as an honest ploitician, or any other individual afforded a prominent position in public sector.  It's all about who you know, bribery and corruption with a heavy dose of sycophancy!

Hence my comment.

If you think the royal family to be parasites, take a look around.  And I thank you not to deliberately misconstrue my words!

hat

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Post by Verdi 30.04.21 2:35

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
PS... why is everyone impressed by soap opera bling?
Believe me, I'm not impressed by soap opera bling or social standing or letters after the name or wealth - as I'm sure you know!

The point is, Britain's royal family are popular on UK soil and around the world, what they represent for the most part, is good old fashioned family values and that's what people like.

I do include myself in that bracket by the way.  I believe the nation and indeed the world, would be a happier place without the trending social disparity, the cloning of misfits because it's modern and politically correct!

It's so important for children to have a good balanced up-bringing, to be guided by stable parenting like a male father and a female mother.  A good strong nuclear family unit - without that stability what hope is there for the future of mankind?

The royal family represent that familial unity, an essential ingredient to cement good relations for now and the future, both within the family and without.

That is the problem with life today, we've lost our way because we've abandoned basic values in favour of trend - and that simple fact applies to just about every aspect of contemporary life on earth.

Rant over.

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Post by BlueBag 30.04.21 7:15

is good old fashioned family values and that's what people like.
Seriously... the Royal Family and good old fashioned family values?

Have you read anything about them over the last 50 years?

Anyway this is definitely my last post on this subject.

I get people love the Royal Family, members of my family do, but they love Coronation Street and Eastenders as well.

My position is that in a modern free society there is no place for anyone ruling us who can not be held to account by the people.

I don't think that is a crazy position at all and it is shared by many many people.

Thanks for the discussion, if anyone took offence I didn't mean any, just my usual straight to the point style.

Up the Republic.
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Post by sequested 30.04.21 9:28

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote : "....There is no such animal as an honest politician"


Well, I think Johnny Mercer has come pretty close. He was appalled at the Government's treatment of serving and retired service personnel and tried desperately to change it. He was  side-lined and beaten back and so he chose to resign but continue to fight their corner. Big respect.  
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Post by Verdi 30.04.21 14:12

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Seriously... the Royal Family and good old fashioned family values?

I said the royal family 'represent' good old fashioned family values (and again you ignore everything else I've said) - that is what people like.  Something to believe in. That's what contemporary multi-cultural diversity lacks - something to believe in.  It used to be some ethereal anonymity called 'God' but thanks to that much revered democratic 'freedom;, the code we now live by, folk have the choice of whether or not to believe.

Great stuff!  The only problem being, we are left (not in the political sense) floundering with nothing to cling to.  I think we all need faith in something, even if only family but that simple pleasure has been taken away by a mix of societal variance.

In short, we don't know whether we are coming or going.

howdy

NB: I'm never offended nor annoyed by you BlueBag kissykissy

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Post by PeterMac 30.04.21 16:42

Would you really want this disgusting creature as Supreme Leader and President for Life ?
Many would.

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Post by Liz Eagles 30.04.21 19:47

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Would you really want this disgusting creature as Supreme Leader and President for Life ?
Many would.

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This is why republicanism is evil. 

This man stood as a socialist in a democratic society when all the time he was a power hungry sociopath and he still believes he is politically relevant when most people see him as a liar..... 

and yet there are those who still think republicanism is not only good but it works.

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Post by Liz Eagles 01.05.21 6:47

Don't forget Tony Blair switched to Catholicism when his tenure as PM expired.

Why would he do that?

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Post by Verdi 01.05.21 13:57

Or this one..

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Post by PeterMac 01.05.21 15:40

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Don't forget Tony Blair switched to Catholicism when his tenure as PM expired.
Why would he do that?

He also ensured that the death Penalty for Treason was abolished very early on in his regime.

A bit like POTUS who are able to Pardon themselves  ?
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Post by PeterMac 01.05.21 17:25

The UK is considered a borderline "Flawed Democracy", by the Economist

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Western Europe is just hanging on as the last outpost of decency and freedom !
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Post by Liz Eagles 02.05.21 14:30

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Don't forget Tony Blair switched to Catholicism when his tenure as PM expired.
Why would he do that?

He also ensured that the death Penalty for Treason was abolished very early on in his regime.

A bit like POTUS who are able to Pardon themselves  ?
There's a documentary available on BBC iplayer at the moment re Watergate demonstrating your point.

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Post by Verdi 11.05.21 14:18

Queen's Speech in full

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"MY LORDS AND MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS


My Government’s priority is to deliver a national recovery from the pandemic that makes the United Kingdom stronger, healthier and more prosperous than before.

To achieve this, my Government will level up opportunities across all parts of the United Kingdom, supporting jobs, businesses and economic growth and addressing the impact of the pandemic on public services.

My Government will protect the health of the nation, continuing the vaccination programme and providing additional funding to support the NHS. My Ministers will bring forward legislation to empower the NHS to innovate and embrace technology. Patients will receive more tailored and preventative care, closer to home. Measures will be brought forward to support the health and wellbeing of the nation, including to tackle obesity and improve mental health. Proposals on social care reform will be brought forward.

My Government will build on the success of the vaccination programme to lead the world in life sciences, pioneering new treatments against diseases like cancer and securing jobs and investment across the country.

My Ministers will oversee the fastest ever increase in public funding for research and development and pass legislation to establish an advanced research agency.

Following the unprecedented support provided to businesses during the pandemic, proposals will be brought forward to create and support jobs and improve regulation.

My Government will strengthen the economic ties across the union, investing in and improving national infrastructure. Proposals will be taken forward to transform connectivity by rail and bus and to extend 5G mobile coverage and gigabit capable broadband.

Legislation will support a lifetime skills guarantee to enable flexible access to high quality education and training throughout people’s lives.

Measures will be introduced to ensure that support for businesses reflects the United Kingdom’s strategic interests and drives economic growth. Laws will simplify procurement in the public sector. Eight new Freeports will create hubs for trade and help regenerate communities.

My Government will ensure that the public finances are returned to a sustainable path once the economic recovery is secure.

Measures will be brought forward to ensure that children have the best start in life, prioritising their early years. My Ministers will address lost learning during the pandemic and ensure every child has a high quality education and is able to fulfil their potential.

My Government will help more people to own their own home whilst enhancing the rights of those who rent. Laws to modernise the planning system, so that more homes can be built, will be brought forward, along with measures to end the practice of ground rents for new leasehold properties. My Ministers will establish in law a new Building Safety Regulator to ensure that the tragedies of the past are never repeated.

Measures will be brought forward to address racial and ethnic disparities and ban conversion therapy.

Legislation will support the voluntary sector by reducing unnecessary bureaucracy and releasing additional funds for good causes.

My Government will invest in new green industries to create jobs, while protecting the environment. The United Kingdom is committed to achieving net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050 and will continue to lead the way internationally by hosting the COP26 Summit in Glasgow. Legislation will set binding environmental targets. Legislation will also be brought forward to ensure the United Kingdom has, and promotes, the highest standards of animal welfare.

My Government will strengthen and renew democracy and the constitution. Legislation will be introduced to ensure the integrity of elections, protect freedom of speech and restore the balance of power between the executive, legislature and the courts. My Ministers will promote the strength and integrity of the union. Measures will be brought forward to strengthen devolved Government in Northern Ireland and address the legacy of the past.

My Government will introduce measures to increase the safety and security of its citizens.

Legislation will increase sentences for the most serious and violent offenders and ensure the timely administration of justice. Proposals will be brought forward to address violence, including against women and girls, and to support victims. Measures will be brought forward to establish a fairer immigration system that strengthens the United Kingdom’s borders and deters criminals who facilitate dangerous and illegal journeys.

My Government will lead the way in ensuring internet safety for all, especially for children whilst harnessing the benefits of a free, open and secure internet.

My Ministers will provide our gallant Armed Services with the biggest spending increase in thirty years, taking forward their programme of modernisation and reinforcing the United Kingdom’s commitment to NATO. My Ministers will honour and strengthen the Armed Forces Covenant, placing it in law. Measures will be introduced to provide National Insurance contribution relief for employers of veterans.

Legislation will be introduced to counter hostile activity by foreign states. My Ministers will implement the Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy.

The United Kingdom will host the G7 Summit and lead the global effort to secure a robust economic recovery from the pandemic. My Ministers will deepen trade ties in the Gulf, Africa and the Indo-Pacific.

My Government will continue to provide aid where it has the greatest impact on reducing poverty and alleviating human suffering. My Government will uphold human rights and democracy across the world. It will take forward a global effort to get 40 million girls across the world into school.

MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

Estimates for the public services will be laid before you.

MY LORDS AND MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

Other measures will be laid before you.

I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon your counsels."

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Post by PeterMac 13.05.21 10:31

'He's a winner!' Jeffrey Archer backs Tony Blair return as he savages Starmer
leadership

JEFFREY ARCHER has backed Tony Blair to return to UK politics as the author savaged the direction of the Labour Party under Sir Keir Starmer.

***
One convicted liar and cheat and perjurer lecturing the rest of us about a not-yet convicted liar and war-criminal !



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Post by Liz Eagles 13.05.21 19:00

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:'He's a winner!' Jeffrey Archer backs Tony Blair return as he savages Starmer
leadership

JEFFREY ARCHER has backed Tony Blair to return to UK politics as the author savaged the direction of the Labour Party under Sir Keir Starmer.



***
One convicted liar and cheat and perjurer lecturing the rest of us about a not-yet convicted liar and war-criminal !



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I think I saw somewhere today that Archer's wife is appearing in court as a character witness for a Lady who is charged with sexual abuse.

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Post by Verdi 02.06.21 13:16


Queen's Platinum Jubilee: four-day festival weekend to celebrate 70-year reign


Buckingham Palace announces series of events for June 2-5 bank holiday, including Platinum Party concert

By Gordon Rayner, Associate Editor 2 June 2021 • 11:11am

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A four-day bank holiday weekend to celebrate the Queen’s Platinum Jubilee will include a concert of world-class stars and a street pageant on The Mall, Buckingham Palace has announced.

The Queen, 95, will become the first British monarch to reign for 70 years on the anniversary of her accession in February, beginning a year of festivities throughout the UK and the Commonwealth.

On Thursday, June 2 – exactly a year from today – an extra bank holiday will mark the start of the main event, when four days of celebrations in and around Buckingham Palace will begin.

The Platinum Jubilee Weekend will start with Trooping the Colour, which marks the Queen’s official birthday, when more than 1,400 parading soldiers, 200 horses and 400 musicians will gather at the Palace and move down The Mall to Horse Guard's Parade, joined by Members of the Royal family on horseback and in carriages.

The Parade will close with an RAF fly-past, watched by The Queen and Members of the Royal family from the Buckingham Palace balcony.

On the same day beacons will be lit throughout the UK, the Channel Islands, Isle of Man and UK Overseas Territories, and for the first time beacons will also be lit in each of the capital cities of the Commonwealth countries.

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On Friday, June 3 a Service of Thanksgiving for the Queen’s reign will be held at St Paul’s Cathedral, then on Saturday, June 4 the Queen and members of her family will attend the Derby at Epsom, before the Platinum Party at the Palace, which will be staged and broadcast by the BBC.

Buckingham Palace said the live concert will “will bring together some of the world’s biggest entertainment stars to celebrate the most significant and joyous moments from the Queen’s seven decade reign”.

Members of the public will be invited to apply to attend via a ballot for UK residents.

Then on Sunday, June 5 people will be encouraged to arrange street parties to join The Big Jubilee Lunch, before the final event of the weekend, the Platinum Jubilee Pageant, featuring more than 5,000 people from across the UK and the Commonwealth, against the backdrop of Buckingham Palace and the surrounding streets.

The Palace said it will “combine street arts, theatre, music, circus, carnival and costume and celebrate the service of Her Majesty’s reign, as well as honouring the collective service of people and communities across the country”.

Later this month details of a Jubilee emblem competition, in conjunction with the Victoria and Albert Museum, the Design Museum and the Royal College of Art, will be released, with the winning entry becoming the official emblem for the celebrations next year.

The Queen will be the first British monarch to reach the landmark, when she will have reigned for almost seven years longer than Queen Victoria, the previous record holder.

Her Majesty ascended the throne on February 6, 1952, when her father George VI died aged 56.

Buckingham Palace said that: “Throughout the year, Her Majesty and members of the Royal family will travel around the country to undertake a variety of engagements to mark this historic occasion culminating with the focal point of the Platinum Jubilee Weekend in June - one year from today.”

The celebrations will follow a similar format to the Diamond Jubilee weekend ten years ago, but will be slightly scaled back to take account of the fact that the Queen will be 96 by then.

In 2012, the most memorable event was the Diamond Jubilee River Pageant, which featured the biggest flotilla seen on the Thames in 350 years. On that day, the Queen and the late Prince Philip sailed down the river on a royal barge built for the occasion, but heavy rain took the shine off the day and Prince Philip fell ill with an infection.



On Friday, June 3 a Service of Thanksgiving for the Queen’s reign will be held at St Paul’s Cathedral, then on Saturday, June 4 the Queen and members of her family will attend the Derby at Epsom, before the Platinum Party at the Palace, which will be staged and broadcast by the BBC.

Buckingham Palace said the live concert will “will bring together some of the world’s biggest entertainment stars to celebrate the most significant and joyous moments from the Queen’s seven decade reign”.

Members of the public will be invited to apply to attend via a ballot for UK residents.

Then on Sunday, June 5 people will be encouraged to arrange street parties to join The Big Jubilee Lunch, before the final event of the weekend, the Platinum Jubilee Pageant, featuring more than 5,000 people from across the UK and the Commonwealth, against the backdrop of Buckingham Palace and the surrounding streets.

The Palace said it will “combine street arts, theatre, music, circus, carnival and costume and celebrate the service of Her Majesty’s reign, as well as honouring the collective service of people and communities across the country”.

Later this month details of a Jubilee emblem competition, in conjunction with the Victoria and Albert Museum, the Design Museum and the Royal College of Art, will be released, with the winning entry becoming the official emblem for the celebrations next year.

The Queen will be the first British monarch to reach the landmark, when she will have reigned for almost seven years longer than Queen Victoria, the previous record holder.

Her Majesty ascended the throne on February 6, 1952, when her father George VI died aged 56.

Buckingham Palace said that: “Throughout the year, Her Majesty and members of the Royal family will travel around the country to undertake a variety of engagements to mark this historic occasion culminating with the focal point of the Platinum Jubilee Weekend in June - one year from today.”

The celebrations will follow a similar format to the Diamond Jubilee weekend ten years ago, but will be slightly scaled back to take account of the fact that the Queen will be 96 by then.

In 2012, the most memorable event was the Diamond Jubilee River Pageant, which featured the biggest flotilla seen on the Thames in 350 years. On that day, the Queen and the late Prince Philip sailed down the river on a royal barge built for the occasion, but heavy rain took the shine off the day and Prince Philip fell ill with an infection.



Next year’s events will be confined to dry land and, with the exception of the Queen’s attendance at the Derby, will all take place at, or within two miles of, Buckingham Palace.

Then, as now, the country was granted an extra bank holiday, and the four-day weekend included a service at St Paul’s, street parties and an RAF flypast.

The concert held at the Palace included acts representing each decade of the Queen’s reign. Organised by Take That singer-songwriter Gary Barlow, highlights included performances by Sir Cliff Richard, Ed Sheeran, Sir Tom Jones, Robbie Williams, Kylie Minogue, Sir Elton John and Sir Paul McCartney.

The Queen did not attend the entire concert, and Prince Philip’s bladder infection meant he could not attend at all.

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Post by sequested 03.06.21 9:19

And there's a special display around the Tower of London (like they did with the cascading poppies) but I'm sworn to secrecy !! It's due to be started around October this year....................
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Post by CaKeLoveR 03.06.21 10:24

So we have until October to try to squeeze it out of you!
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Post by crusader 03.06.21 12:34

We have ways of making you talk. smokin
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Post by sequested 03.06.21 12:40

Hi know naaaaarthing, Meester Fawlty
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Post by Verdi 03.06.21 12:47

Oh please, not another cybernaughty claiming to be of GCHQ, or some other secret service agent with inside knowledge.

If you've got something worthwhile to impart then spit it out, otherwise ....

shutup

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