How serious are the New Witnesses?

by Silentscope 27.09.20 10:22

The Report comes after the Adverts. I did not think the Video to be so Important to a Non-German speaker. Just “Bilge” (I do like that!)
It appears to be an Attempt to “Backfill” the Original report from Manfred S, and Helge B. It is left unclear if he is speaking of the Window how it is - or how it was at the time.

Christian B has allegedly already confessed the Maddie-Murder at a Techno-Festival.

by **Verdi** 27.09.20 14:39

@Silentscope wrote:The Report comes after the Adverts.

I didn't ask for a journey into the unknown.

For the benefit of the reader, again, would you please post the link rather than your google search results. It only takes a moment of your time.

Thank you.

by MaxHeadroom 29.09.20 12:39

@Silentscope wrote:Unbelievable! That Herr Wolters seems to believe it will be so easy?

Bild were Reporting last night that there were unsubstantiated Witnesses in the Cagiva commune that are willing to State that CB also made “Confessions “ to them at the Mar 2008 Dragon Festival that he climbed out of the Grilled window. According to the Reporter.

Only problem is - the Grill was added afterwards! Kai obviously did not know!

https://youtu.be/AVe8-dpktrM

It really boggles the mind that Wolters keeps embarrassing himself with this nonsense yet remains so confident. So what are those strong pieces of evidence he keeps talking about? The latest "evidence" is just more gossip from dubious witnesses - how often have we had that before? Either they have clear evidence, then they should present it - or they have nothing, then they should better keep quiet. Needless to say what the truth is out of these two options.

by worriedmum 29.09.20 12:56

@MaxHeadroom wrote:
@Silentscope wrote:Unbelievable! That Herr Wolters seems to believe it will be so easy?

Bild were Reporting last night that there were unsubstantiated Witnesses in the Cagiva commune that are willing to State that CB also made “Confessions “ to them at the Mar 2008 Dragon Festival that he climbed out of the Grilled window. According to the Reporter.

Only problem is - the Grill was added afterwards! Kai obviously did not know!

https://youtu.be/AVe8-dpktrM
It really boggles the mind that Wolters keeps embarrassing himself with this nonsense yet remains so confident. So what are those strong pieces of evidence he keeps talking about? The latest "evidence" is just more gossip from dubious witnesses - how often have we had that before? Either they have clear evidence, then they should present it - or they have nothing, then they should better keep quiet. Needless to say what the truth is out of these two options.

The 'grilled window' ... wonder where that was , then?

by Silentscope 29.09.20 13:21

I think as Maxheadroom has pointed out, there can be probably two Options...

1. They set Brückner up so Good, we all HAVE to believe it.

2. Or he will be ruled out of the Enquiries and will Sue everyone he can get his hands on. He is probably writing a Book already in his Cell?

Because Option 3 is not allowed to be Pursued, is it?

by **Verdi** 29.09.20 16:02

Or it could be just a load of media garbage, in which case it can be safely disregarded.

Remember those heady days of old when the McCanns dominated the press?

Christian Brueckner: To be or not to be - Page 10 Collag10

by Silverspeed 29.09.20 23:23

Madeleine McCann: no body of evidence against Christian Brueckner
by Anorak | 28th, September 2020

“German police ‘don’t need Madeleine McCann’s body to prove suspect murdered her’,” declares the Mirror. The more depraved killers, often take their victims’ whereabouts to the pit. Ian Brady and Myra Hindley never pointed police nor bereft relatives to Keith Bennett’s remains. It took 23 years for the child rapists, kidnappers and killers to confess to Keith’s murder. Brady confessed to newspaper reporters from his prison cell where he was serving life for three other murders. Police believed the pair had done it. But belief is not what the law deals in. A confession was all the police had. Neither Brady nor Hindley were prosecuted for Keith Bennett’s murder.

The justice system needs evidence to prosecute. The Mirror’s headline is rooted in the to-deadline thoughts of German prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters. In one of this many TV appearance, this one on Portugal’s RTP show Sexta as 9, Wolters offered: “To indict someone we don’t need a body. A person can be convicted without a body being found but we have to be convinced a person is dead.” And you are convinced Madeleine McCann is dead? And don’t you also have to have some evidence that your suspect, Christian Brueckner, killed the person whose body is missing? Don’t you need evidence to hurdle all those barriers to justice?

You begin to wonder is what Wolters is on the telly? What does he know? What does he merely think he knows? Asked if he had any forensic evidence placing Brueckner inside the flat where Madeleine was sleeping, Wolters added: “I have an answer but we have decided not to divulge this information. I can’t say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ as that would bring a thousand other questions and I cannot go into details. But you have to believe me when I say we have more evidence. Here in Germany our Public Ministry only divulges things when they are solid.”
Which is why Christian Brueckner has not been charged with any offences linked to the vanishing for Madeleine McCann. We can believe Wolters has “more evidence” but we do not know what he has evidence of? And his appearing on the telly, points to it being a fishing expedition, a warning to criminals that Wolters and his team are on to you so it’d be best if you confessed now.
Maybe you called him Brueckner? Someone somebody you know called Bruckner while he was in the vicinity of the Ocean Club complex shortly after Madeleine McCann disappeared? That call lasted around half an hour. “We have the number that called him but we haven’t managed to attribute that number to anyone at the moment,” says Wolters. “We don’t know what the conversation was about and we don’t know the relationship between the people who spoke. We are searching for a witness to establish the content of the conversation which lasted nearly half an hour and so was quite a long conversation. We hope someone remembers that conversation. We don’t have any reason to believe that person could be involved in what happened that night to Madeleine.”

They’re searching for the witness – any witness will do. So Wolters is on the telly in Portugal and in the tabloids in the UK. His profile rises. But we learn nothing knew.
“Christian…must remain in jail until 2024 at least after losing a legal challenge last week,” says the Sun. “He was convicted in Germany of the 2005 rape of an American OAP in Praia da Luz.”
The clock ticks.

by **PeterMac** 30.09.20 7:57

What I want to ask Wolters is this:–

Do you reasonably deduce, or do you just assume that Madeleine is dead?
Or do you know very well that she is dead?

And if 'you know', what evidence do you have for this knowledge?

Much of the world relies on the alerts from the cadaver and blood dogs at the scene, as well as at clothing and the rental car, to substantiate their belief that she is dead and that parents knew this from the start.

Do you have anything more than that?

by Silentscope 30.09.20 10:09

The Defence Lawyers have still not been granted “Akteneinsicht” to be allowed to read the Prosecution’s Evidence File. This is extremely difficult to combat against until the “Ermittlungsverfahren” Investigation process has been completed.

Only when they decide they have enough Evidence, which on the balance would more likely result in a Conviction than an Acquittal will they Interview and Charge Brückner formally.

It all depends on what Herr Wolters thinks he has.

It had better be something Conclusive.

by **Verdi** 30.09.20 16:11

‘CAN’T PIN IT ON HIM’ Madeleine McCann suspect Christian B could be cleared of Irish woman’s rape as DNA doesn’t match crime scene
Exclusive

Nick Pisa

30 Sep 2020, 15:19Updated: 30 Sep 2020, 15:30

POLICE investigating Madeleine McCann prime suspect over a rape case have suffered a blow after it emerged his DNA was not a match of that at the scene.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12809102/cops-madeleine-mccann-suspect-christian-b-rape-dna/

What utter tripe. Hasn't NicPisa got anything better to do than keep regurgitating old news.

Far be it from me to remind him, Madeleine McCann was not snatched and even if she had been, the rape of an adult can in no way be connected with the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

The two cases are entirely unrelated - not that I believe the rape story. Four months and counting..

by Silentscope 30.09.20 16:38

Was the DNA not previously destroyed Nick?

According to different reporters in your Sun paper?

Not checked again?

[size=40]MISSING LINK [/size]
[size=40]DNA from a rape linked to Madeleine McCann suspect was destroyed on the orders of Portuguese prosecutors[/size]

Henry Holloway
Gerard Couzens

Jun 20 2020, 16:23 ET

Today however it has emerged biological material collected from the crime scene was destroyed around two months before Madeleine’s disappearance.
It means the chance of making any solid link between the two cases if the same offender was responsible could now prove impossible.
The extraordinary decision was laid bare in court papers relating to Ms Behan’s rape in Praia da Rocha - which is a half-an-hour drive east of Praia da Luz.

by Silentscope 30.09.20 21:45

Breaking news! Bild paper is implying that a Prisoner has overheard Brückner and the matierial proof of Maddies disappearance comes from whatever this Prisoner has said.

More “Bilge” more like.

by **Verdi** 30.09.20 22:14

I was rather hoping this nonsense would evaporate with the mist of time - no such luck. The tabloids that have supported the McCann faction, since I can't remember when, relentlessly continue the charade.

Main suspect in Madeleine McCann case could be CLEARED of the rape of an Irish woman three years before Maddie's disappearance due to DNA mismatch

Madeleine McCann suspect could be cleared of rape of Irish woman in 2004
DNA found at the scene does not match that of Brueckner, a source said
The 37-year-old was attacked in Praia da Rocha, just three years before Maddie was snatched

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner could be cleared of the rape of an Irish woman after it emerged his DNA did not match that found at the scene.

Police have been investigating Brueckner as a suspect in the rape of Irish tour rep Hazal Behan in 2004.

The 37-year-old was attacked in Praia da Rocha, just three years before Maddie was snatched.

Read on: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8791497/Main-suspect-Madeleine-McCann-case-CLEARED-rape-Irish-woman.html

I can't be arsed with copying over the entire trite article. It's not worth forum space.

by Silentscope 30.09.20 22:43

Is Miss Tanno of the Daily Mail just copying Mr Pisa’s Sun Story without checking it is Authentic either?

Let us see what they write in the Morning...

30.09.2020 - 15:48 Uhr Bild.de
Hat sich der Tatverdächtige Christian B. (43) im Fall Madeleine „Maddie“ McCann einem Mithäftling offenbart? Beruht der „materielle Beweis“, von dem die Staatsanwaltschaft in einem Interview mit dem portugiesischem Fernsehen sprach, etwa von einem Informanten im Knast?

Has the Suspect Christian B. (43) in Maddies case opened up to another Prisoner in JVA Kiel? Does the “matierial Proof” that the State Prosecution spoke about in Portuguese television maybe come from an Informant in the Prison?

Sounds like “Bilge” to me!
Speculation pure!

by **Verdi** 01.10.20 0:53

Next time try google translate, it makes a whole lot more sense..

Did the suspect Christian B. (43) reveal himself to a fellow inmate in the Madeleine "Maddie" McCann case? Is the "material evidence" that the public prosecutor spoke of in an interview with Portuguese television based on an informant in jail?

Second thoughts don't bother - just write in English.

by **PeterMac** 01.10.20 7:06

I wonder if the constant repetition of the law by H. Wolters that they do not need a body to be able to charge anyone with Murder, is spooking the McCanns and their team
Because it applies equally in their case.
Gerry was full of bravado when he snarled "Find the body and prove that we killed her" during that infamous interview.
But now that the Prosecutor is saying repeatedly that you do not have to "Find the body" to prove anything, and that other evidence, such as dog's alerts, witnesses, circumstances, and so on, may be sufficient to prove her death in legal terms, might they now be getting worried ?

by Silentscope 01.10.20 9:51

Maybe they will be more worried when they read this Peter?

The Home Office declined to specify the amount of the grant, but said: “Ministers have agreed funding up to March 31, 2021. The cost of Operation Grange was £12million to the end of the 2019-20 financial year.”

Former Met detective chief inspector Mick Neville said: “The sum of £12million seems an awful lot of money. But if she has been murdered, her killer must be brought to justice. Any parent would want the same if it was their child.”

Cut from Verdi’s post.

by Silverspeed 01.10.20 13:47

@PeterMac wrote:I wonder if the constant repetition of the law by H. Wolters that they do not need a body to be able to charge anyone with Murder, is spooking the McCanns and their team
Because it applies equally in their case.
Gerry was full of bravado when he snarled "Find the body and prove that we killed her" during that infamous interview.
But now that the Prosecutor is saying repeatedly that you do not have to "Find the body" to prove anything, and that other evidence, such as dog's alerts, witnesses, circumstances, and so on, may be sufficient to prove her death in legal terms, might they now be getting worried ?

Hadn't thought of it that way but i would like to think it's a possibility.

by **Verdi** 01.10.20 15:55

I don't believe Gerry McCann ever said that, it doesn't make any sense.

It was taken from a press report published by the Daily Express on 13th September 2007, four days after the McCanns returned to the UK. If I remember rightly, shortly following a media report by Sandra Felgueiras ..

The press report is no longer available online but it was recorded for posterity by Nigel Moore of mccannfiles...

FIND THE BODY AND PROVE WE KILLED HER

Original Source: EXPRESS - Thursday 13th September 2007

By Padraic Flanagan in Praia da Luz

THE parents of missing Madeleine McCann yesterday challenged the police: "Find the body and prove we killed her."

The couple, who are suspected over the child's death and the disposal her body, issued the startling ultimatum as the public prosecutor in Portugal sent the police case against them to a judge.

It is thought that the McCanns' high-powered lawyers have told them that without a body it will be extremely difficult for the authorities to press charges.

A close friend said: "The legitimate question to ask Portuguese police is: 'Where is the body? Where is the evidence that Madeleine is dead? We have got no idea'."

The change in the family's tone – just days after the McCanns were still pleading for the search for Madeleine to continue – surprised sources close to the investigation.

"It seems remarkable that just days after the McCanns were saying they thought Madeleine was still alive and missing, now they're talking about a body," a source said. "I don’t know if this is really the McCanns speaking or just one of the people working on their publicity campaign but it is not the kind of comment to impress a team of detectives who think you’re guilty."

The case against the McCanns detailed in the dossier of evidence now before Judge Pedro Miguel dos Anjos Frias appears to rest mainly on potentially damaging forensic test results.

These are said to include Madeleine's DNA in traces of bodily fluid, as well as a mass of hair, discovered in the McCanns' hire car which was rented 25 days after she went missing on May 3.

Portugal's attorney general Fernando Jose Pinto Monteiro has indicated the police investigation into Kate and Gerry, both 39-year-old doctors, has not ended and suggested stricter bail conditions could be imposed on the couple.

Public prosecutor Jose Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses, based at Portimao on the Algarve, on Tuesday ordered the 10 lever-arch police files in the case to go before the judge.

Mr Jose Pinto Monteiro announced last night that he was appointing a second public prosecutor to the case.

Luis Bilro Verao, from the Evora district in central Portugal, will oversee the work of Portimao-based Mr Cunha de Magalhaes e Meneses.

A friend of the McCanns said the family had been advised that the prosecutor was probably either seeking further guidance from the judge or applying for the authority to carry out more searches. The friend said the McCanns' new legal team, based in London, was working around the clock to "get up to speed on the case".

The McCanns' Portuguese lawyer, Carlos Pinto de Abreu, yesterday hit out at Portugal’s justice system in a scathing interview with a local newspaper.

"It is more appropriate to break down the patience of a believer and the reputation of an innocent man than to identify those responsible," he said.

A family friend said the speculation appeared to be taking its toll on the McCanns, who left Praia da Luz to return to their family home in Leicestershire at the weekend.

The source said: "Two days ago Gerry was telling everyone: 'I'm as strong as an ox'. Yesterday he was not quite as ebullient. They fear they will be summoned back at some stage.

They are innocent; they did not kill Madeleine and dispose of her body." It was expected that fresh searches would be ordered in Praia da Luz. Policia Judiciaria spokesman Olegario Sousa refused to confirm or deny the sites, but there was no sign of searches at the church yesterday.

Gerry's brother John McCann said: "There is so much speculation going on as to what the actual information the Portuguese police have.

"If they have got something that suggests Madeleine really is dead then for goodness sake tell the family who have the strongest feeling for this."

https://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/press/5sep7/Express-13-09-07.htm

As for the McCanns being concerned by Herr Wolters repeated words, after thirteen years of protection at the highest level, I truly don't think they have anything to worry about.

Indeed, I think it is they who are behind all these latest 'ludicrous' press reports from home and away.

by **pauloalexandre** 01.10.20 16:10

@Verdi wrote:Indeed, I think it is they who are behind all these latest 'ludicrous' press reports from home and away.

"Don't look here, look over there!"

by **Verdi** 01.10.20 16:25

MADDIE HUNT Madeleine McCann may be alive despite German prosecutors claiming they have proof she is dead, ex-Met detective believes

Tariq TahirNick PisaMike Sullivan

1 Oct 2020, 11:42Updated: 1 Oct 2020, 13:22

MADELEINE McCann could still be alive despite German prosecutors insisting she is dead, a retired Scotland Yard detective has said.

Convicted paedophile and rapist Christian B was named by the German authorities as the chief suspect in the murder of the toddler, who was seized in 2007 while on holiday in Portugal.

The 43-year-old was living near Praia da Luz, where three-year-old Madeleine was a staying, though charges have yet to brought against him.

Chief prosecutor Hans Christian Wolters recently told Portugese TV "we have nothing to indicate she could be alive" and "everything we have points to her being dead".

But former Met detective chief inspector Mick Neville said: “It must be remembered that Madeleine McCann may still be alive, whatever the opinion of German prosecutors.”

The latest Home Office grant to the Met’s Operation Grange into Madeleine's disappearance is believed to be around £350,000 and will cover work on the inquiry until the end of March 2021.

The extra cash suggests the international probe into prime suspect Christian B will continue for at least another six months, experts say.

The Home Office declined to specify the amount of the grant, but said: “Ministers have agreed funding up to March 31, 2021. The cost of Operation Grange was £12million to the end of the 2019-20 financial year.”

“The sum of £12million seems an awful lot of money," said Mr Neville.

Christian Brueckner: To be or not to be - Page 10 Ad-gra10

"But if she has been murdered, her killer must be brought to justice. Any parent would want the same if it was their child.”

The Grange team of four officers is in a background role. German cops are taking the lead with Portuguese authorities.

Wages for the officers are the Met’s responsibility, but the government money will fund flights, hotels and other costs of the international inquiry.

Operation Grange was set up in 2011 following an open letter in The Sun from Madeleine’s parents to PM David Cameron.

It has provided mobile phone data to German prosecutors as they slowly build a case against Christian B.

He is currently in Germany’s Kiel Prison for drugs offences and is due to start a seven-year sentence for the 2005 rape in Praia da Luz of an American pensioner.

His lawyer insists he was not involved.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12816777/madeleine-mccann-alive-german-prosecutors-dead-met-detective/

alarm

by **PeterMac** 01.10.20 17:20

How can people get the plan so WRONG after all this time.

Christian Brueckner: To be or not to be - Page 10 11_cop10

by Doug D 01.10.20 17:40

Not forgetting that the blue travel cot with the four net sides was on the far side of the room and the solid ended brown one was the door side.

MO (4^th May)

He states that the door of the bedroom that was occupied by Madeleine and the twins, was open and that there was enough light in the bedroom for him to see the twins in their cots. That he couldn't see the bed occupied by Madeleine, but as it was all quiet, he deduced that she was sleeping.

If he couldn’t see the bed occupied by M., he certainly couldn’t see into the brown cot, but we know it’s all bollocks anyway.

Christian Brueckner: To be or not to be - Page 10 Untitl20

by MaxHeadroom 01.10.20 20:34

@Verdi wrote:Operation Grange was set up in 2011 following an open letter in The Sun from Madeleine’s parents to PM David Cameron.

It has provided mobile phone data to German prosecutors as they slowly build a case against Christian B.

So they have known about the mobile phone data, the thing the Germans are most proud of, yet Operation Grange did nothing to persecute CB?

by **Verdi** 01.10.20 22:13

The plot thickens..

Madeleine McCann police 'hired inmate to get confession from prime suspect in jail'

EXCLUSIVE: Sources claim an 'informer' could have been hired by German police to get Christian Brueckner to confess to Madeleine's disappearance as investigators try to get evidence

ByAndy Lines

20:00, 1 OCT 2020

An inmate may have been recruited by German prosecutors to get Christian Brueckner to confess he was behind Madeleine McCann’s disappearance.

German legal sources say an “informer” could have been employed as investigators tried to get evidence to charge Brueckner.

Asked about the claim tonight, the public prosecutor’s office would not deny it, simply saying: “No comment.”

Sources said the inmate was recruited when Brueckner was in Wolfenbuettel jail before being transferred to Kiel, where he is now in solitary confinement.

It happened before Brueckner, 43, was named as the prime suspect after phone records placed him in Praia da Luz in Portugal on the night Madeleine, three, vanished in 2007.

Alexander Stevens, an expert on German criminal law, said investigators’ chances of finding any new evidence was now low.

He said: “The only remaining possibility to convict Christian B. would be to obtain information about fellow prisoners.

“The prosecutor had apparently wanted to get the accused to confess.”

If the claims, which were made in a respected German newspaper, are true, it could cause problems for the public prosecution office in Braunschweig.

This is because according to paragraph 136a of the German Code of Criminal Procedure, a statement must not be obtained by the investigating authorities by any type of deception.

It has also emerged that British police have been given more cash for the investigation into Madeleine’s disappearance, taking the total to in excess of £12million.

The latest Home Office grant to the Met’s Operation Grange is believed to be around £350,000 and will cover the inquiry until March 2021.

Brueckner was named in June as the prime suspect in Madeleine’s abduction.

He is in jail for drug offences and has been convicted of child pornography offences and rape.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-police-hired-inmate-22777780
..................

This report includes some sort of video interview (very badly conducted), where the lawyer is asked if he would allow 'he who can't be named, you know - Christian Brueckner, to babysit his daughter. What an utterly stupid question - I'm surprised the lawyer even bothered to respond.

The only people to benefit from this ongoing Bilge are the McCanns, Operation Grange and the tabloid press.