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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Mm11

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The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Mm11

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

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Is CB involved?

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Jezza 17.06.20 14:34

What do people think of the theory that Christian B's "horrible job" was to collect Maddie's body at a pre arranged time from the apt on May 3rd?..he didn't even have to enter the apt hence no dna...

Maddie having died earlier....for me I think the night before that was the crying Mrs Fenn heard...or was it maddie's sister crying for Maddie?.....

For me it ties in with everything, the only difficulty is that the kids club records would have had to have been doctored...but if they get away with that everything else makes perfect sense.

To get hold of CB they would need a local man with local contacts....maybe a 3rd arguido??????……..

Profiler Pat Brown came up with this theory...I've added the possibility of the 3rd arguido...

And currently there is a lot of shaking of the apple tree from all sides hoping someone will crack....
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Jill Havern 17.06.20 15:14

Welcome to the forum Jezza singlerose

Here's the link to Pat's theory
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Jezza 17.06.20 15:18

been watching the case from day one...was a keen contributor and reader of 3As.....so I've been around forever as have you :-)
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by sharonl 17.06.20 17:39

He definitely did not enter the apartment or abduct Madeleine but I don't have an opinion on whether he may have assisted in the disposal of the body.

I would like to know more about these farmhouses, was the one to where Gerry and Russells' phones were traced the same one that was owned by Brueckner? Murat knew quite a lot about properties in the area, did he contact Bruckner?
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by sallypelt 17.06.20 17:49

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:What do people think of the theory that Christian B's "horrible job" was to collect Maddie's body at a pre arranged time from the apt on May 3rd?..he didn't even have to enter the apt hence no dna...

Maddie having died earlier....for me I think the night before that was the crying Mrs Fenn heard...or was it maddie's sister crying for Maddie?.....

For me it ties in with everything, the only difficulty is that the kids club records would have had to have been doctored...but if they get away with that everything else makes perfect sense.

To get hold of CB they would need a local man with local contacts....maybe a 3rd arguido??????……..

Profiler Pat Brown came up with this theory...I've added the possibility of the 3rd arguido...

And currently there is a lot of shaking of the apple tree from all sides hoping someone will crack....
I am in complete agreement with Pat Brown. If CB IS involved in any way, he's an accessory AFTER the fact. What threw the T9 plans into turmoil on the night of the 3 May 2007? Meeting J Wilkinson. Was GM delayed by this meeting. Wasn't GM seen by the shutters that night?

I think we need to go back to the night of 3 May 2007. The mysterious phone call. What time is it claimed it took place? sometime after 8 PM? Ummm, the plot thickens
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Jill Havern 17.06.20 17:58

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:He definitely did not enter the apartment or abduct Madeleine but I don't have an opinion on whether he may have assisted in the disposal of the body.

I would like to know more about these farmhouses, was the one to where Gerry and Russells' phones were traced the same one that was owned by Brueckner?  Murat knew quite a lot about properties in the area, did he contact Bruckner?
Could the farmhouse be up the hill that Kate and Gerry used to run up?

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by sallypelt 17.06.20 18:08

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:He definitely did not enter the apartment or abduct Madeleine but I don't have an opinion on whether he may have assisted in the disposal of the body.

I would like to know more about these farmhouses, was the one to where Gerry and Russells' phones were traced the same one that was owned by Brueckner?  Murat knew quite a lot about properties in the area, did he contact Bruckner?
Could the farmhouse be up the hill that Kate and Gerry used to run up?
Hi Jill

who would have thought that 13 years down the line, we'd be still here trying to make sense of all this? I had to walk away from it, as I felt "they've got away with it" and time is going on (THIRTEEN YEARS HEY?) However, all those who have been here when many of us just went away, you are all to be commended. From the Mirror Forum, 3 Aguidos, to your forum, that has stood the test of time. 

I could only return if I felt that maybe, just maybe, we'll finally get answers to what happened to Madeleine McCann. However, no matter what "evidence" they come up with, nothing will convince me that the McCanns had nothing to do with Madeleine's disappearance. So, let's hope well get to find out, at last, the answers we've been seeking for the past 13 years, because I don't think I have another 13 years left in me. pray2
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Jill Havern 17.06.20 18:25

Awww...sallypelt, I know how you feel. Unfortunately I think most people would even be happy with a fitted-up patsy now if it meant closure of some description.

If the Police don't want Maddie to have justice, aswell as her own parents, then that's what'll happen. At least the twins would have closure.

But what if they've also got doubts? What might they do in the future?

But look how past members come back here when there's something like this going on with the case - they may have drifted away like you did but they've clearly got us bookmarked singlerose

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by sallypelt 17.06.20 18:39

What a cracker of a motorhome. Where did Bruckner get the money for that?  scratchinghead
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by PeterMac 17.06.20 18:53

So he now has a motor home, and a VW Camper wagon, And a jag.  All taxed and insured with Green Cards and MoT'd,

Yeah. OK.
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by cookiemuncher 17.06.20 19:56

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Awww...sallypelt, I know how you feel. Unfortunately I think most people would even be happy with a fitted-up patsy now if it meant closure of some description.

If the Police don't want Maddie to have justice, aswell as her own parents, then that's what'll happen. At least the twins would have closure.

But what if they've also got doubts? What might they do in the future?

But look how past members come back here when there's something like this going on with the case - they may have drifted away like you did but they've clearly got us bookmarked singlerose
Most people.........no, no, no, don't even go there for one second.

At least the twins will have closure, no they won't as it will be based on a pack of lies, and what about GA.  Will he be trawled through the courts again by the McCanns because they would have won if Madeleine is declared dead but "not by their hands".  How is that justice and how will justice he served in the future if someone comes forward with information about Madeleine as to how she died.  As you say about the twins, how do we not know that they may find something out or may overhear something been talked about that is contradictory to what they've been told by their parents?
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Post by miffy8 17.06.20 19:58

I thought all along that there was an accomplice of some description. I'm inclined to think that Madeleine's dead body was handed over to someone to hide the night the supposed abduction had taken place. I still think that this might have been en route to the beach as I cannot rule out in my head the Smithman sighting and the remarkable likeness to GM. The reason I can't do this is because of what his wife supposedly said. From what I have read she said to the man carrying the child "Is she asleep."

 For a start, most people would not engage in conversation with a stranger like that, especially as the man was described as averting the family's gaze and therefore not receptive to talking and secondly, and more importantly, unless she was asleep she would either be awake which renders the question irrelevant or dead. 

You do not ask somebody if their child is asleep if they clearly look asleep or motionless, as you wouldn't need to unless of course, you thought they might be dead. And you certainly would never assume that anybody would be carrying a dead child. Was this evidence of her thoughts speaking out loud? Did she think that there was something not quite right about her coloration, posture, arms dangling to prompt her to say this?  What did she expect him to say. 

"No actually she's dead" Exactly. That is why I have to give credence to the Smithman sighting and think that the person carrying her would not have had time to hide her body sufficiently well in the timeframe - hence this is why my thoughts of the involvement of someone else in receiving the body come in and the conversation "I've got a horrible job to do tommorow night." Kind of fits with what the news reports say the German guy told somebody.

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Tony Bennett 17.06.20 21:17

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:I thought all along that there was an accomplice of some description. I'm inclined to think that Madeleine's dead body was handed over to someone to hide the night the supposed abduction had taken place.

Strong evidence has been supplied on this forum and elsewhere that Madeleine may have suffered a serious event, or died, during the afternoon or evening of Sunday 29 April - FOUR days before she was reported missing. Support for this theory is provided by the event of the Pool Photo ('Last Photo') which the McCanns maintain was taken at 2.29pm on Thursday 3 May. Expert evidence discussed on this forum shows that the only warm, sunny day that week was the Sunday, ruling our any possibility that it was taken after that.

The theory that Madeleine was still alive on Thursday is sustained by the claim by Catriona Baker was with Madeleine at a 'high tea' between 5pm & 6pm on the Thursday and that shortly afterwards David Payne saw Madeleine alive in the McCanns' holiday apartment. There are innumerable contradictions in both stories and it is not safe to rely on either of them.  There is other so evidence that is both credible and independent that Maddie was seen alive after Sunday. 

All of these topics are extensively discussed on this forum and the Moderator will perhaps be along shortly to explain where the best links are.     


I still think that this might have been en route to the beach as I cannot rule out in my head the Smithman sighting and the remarkable likeness to GM.

There are just as many serious problems with the alleged 'Smithman' sighting - again extensively discussed on the forum - search our index for 'SMITHMAN'. The efits area complete joke. They are of two very different-looking men. Probably tens of thousands of European white men would reasonably match one or other of the efits (but hardly both!). The Smiths said they only saw him for a second or two in the dark and told the police they would 'never be able to recognise him again'.

Only Martin Smith claimed the man looked like Gerry McCann - and NOT from his face but by the 'way he walked'. None of the other NINE Smiths agreed with him. The efits were done over 16 months after the sighting, which only lasted a couple of seconds. Besides that, neither the Smiths nor the Metropolitan Police have ever said that the efits were done by the Smiths.

In any case, they were prepared by Henri Exton, the former Head of Covert Intelligence at MI5. In a case with so much central government and security services involvement, one would have to question whether we could accept his evidnce. And besides all of that, barely 3 months after claiming he was 60%-80% sure that he had seen Gerry McCann on 3 May, he then went on to work with them three months later, actively co-operating on a number of occasions in their search for a 'stranger abduction'.

In short,  his evidence is worthless.
          

The reason I can't do this is because of what his wife supposedly said. From what I have read she said to the man carrying the child "Is she asleep."

She never gave any evidence.


For a start, most people would not engage in conversation with a stranger like that, especially as the man was described as averting the family's gaze and therefore not receptive to talking and secondly, and more importantly, unless she was asleep she would either be awake which renders the question irrelevant or dead. 

I agree with that observation.


You do not ask somebody if their child is asleep if they clearly look asleep or motionless, as you wouldn't need to unless of course, you thought they might be dead. And you certainly would never assume that anybody would be carrying a dead child. Was this evidence of her thoughts speaking out loud? Did she think that there was something not quite right about her coloration, posture, arms dangling to prompt her to say this?  What did she expect him to say? 

You are right. I am afraid it is all a great fabrication.

"No actually she's dead". Exactly. That is why I have to give credence to the Smithman sighting and think that the person carrying her would not have had time to hide her body sufficiently well in the timeframe - hence this is why my thoughts of the involvement of someone else in receiving the body come in and the conversation "I've got a horrible job to do tomorrow night." Kind of fits with what the news reports say the German guy told somebody.

Please look more deeply at the evidence Madeleine may have died on the Sunday.

REPLIES ABOVE IN BLUE

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Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by miffy8 17.06.20 22:18

Thank you Tony for taking the time to reply to my post and your insightful comments.  I don't for one minute believe that Madeleine died on the same night as the 'abduction' as it would have been a virtual impossibility to have pulled that off, cleaned up etc etc in the window of time from the high tea, if Madeleine was even present at that at all, to the alarm being raised at 9:30. I will have to look more into when the last sighting of her was in relation to when she could have died but it was clearly sometime before.
Of course, I can only make inferences from things I have read and I do remember reading that Mr Smith's wife tried to speak to Gerry which was widely reported, as was the man's apparent reluctance to speak and also that she commented on the button detailing on his trousers and I have also read that GM had a pair fitting the description.  I also find it rather strange that the police were contacted again by Mr Smith who had apparently had his memory jogged from seeing the Mcann's walking down the steps of a plane and recognising the man he saw that night.
That sounds a very plausible thing to do if you are honest doesn't it?

My theory is possibly quite an unusual one as I think the hoax abduction was thwarted deliberately in the hope that it would be uncovered. It was so badly executed with no signs of any break in, windows open, shutters jimmied, footprints etc that anybody who could have the wherewithal to plan something like this in meticulous detail right down to doctoring of photographs as you say and not demonstrate a shred of credible evidence that an abduction took place when it actually came to it, in my opinion, has got somebody working against them.

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by sammyc 17.06.20 22:56

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Awww...sallypelt, I know how you feel. Unfortunately I think most people would even be happy with a fitted-up patsy now if it meant closure of some description.

If the Police don't want Maddie to have justice, aswell as her own parents, then that's what'll happen. At least the twins would have closure.

But what if they've also got doubts? What might they do in the future?

But look how past members come back here when there's something like this going on with the case - they may have drifted away like you did but they've clearly got us bookmarked singlerose
When you think about it Jill the twins have been saddled with this burden for the rest of their lives. Forget about the parents as they know what happened on that fateful holiday . Can you imagine what Madeleine's siblings will have to go through whenever they say their own name to others in eg, job interviews, future friendships and relationships, at the dentist or doctor, being pointed out by others who know them etc etc . Most people by now know their names and they are still only minors.  Their parents have wrecked all 3 of their children's lives. There are no words for their actions.
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Tony Bennett 18.06.20 9:37

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Thank you Tony for taking the time to reply to my post and your insightful comments.  I don't for one minute believe that Madeleine died on the same night as the 'abduction' as it would have been a virtual impossibility to have pulled that off, cleaned up etc etc in the window of time from the high tea, if Madeleine was even present at that at all, to the alarm being raised at 9:30.

Thank you for your reply. I agree with your observations above, and one of the key reasons I do so is precisely because of the reason you give, i.e. the utter impossibility of arranging this complex abduction hoax in the space of a couple of hours and then all sitting down calmly together in the Tapas restaurant by 8.45pm. I think the alarm was raised a bit later than 9.30pm but I regard that as a relatively minor issue in the great scheme of things. We can probably agree that it was raised between 9.30pm and 10pm.  

Apart from that, please see my replies in blue below:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------     

I will have to look more into when the last sighting of her was in relation to when she could have died but it was clearly sometime before.

REPLY: This is dealt with comprehensively in Richard Hall's third Madeleone video: 'When Madeeine Died'. It's 3-4 hours long, but well worth a detailed look: LINK: 
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

A poster here called Lizzy Taylor ( [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] ) has set out on this forum a comprehensive analysis of all claimed sightings of Madeleine after Sunday lunchtime and says that all are either from people who were not independent (e.g. Tapas 7 and creche workers) or were otherwise lacking in credibility. Our Moderator will perhaps find it for you.  

We have three photos of Madeleine in Praia da Luz on Saturday 28th April and one on Sunday lunchtime 29th April (the only sunny day that week). We have no others from that week, apart from the controversial Tennis Balls Photo. That in itself tells the story of that fateful week. 

Of course, I can only make inferences from things I have read and I do remember reading that Mr Smith's wife tried to speak to Gerry which was widely reported, 

REPLY: We only have Martin Smith's word for that. His wife has never said that and refused to give evidence to the Portuguese police. 
 
as was the man's apparent reluctance to speak 

REPLY: Again, we only have Martin Smith's word.

and also that she commented on the button detailing on his trousers and I have also read that GM had a pair fitting the description.  

REPLY: This evidence comes from Martin Smith;s daughter Aoife Smith. She provided the Portuguese police with an incredibly detailed description of the man she said she saw. That is NOT consistent with her evidence which was as follows:
(a)  she said she was just a couple of metres away when she first saw him and he crossed by her. The length of time during which she saw him could only be about one second
(b)  she said she would never be able to recognise the man again.

Moreover, by the time she had given evidence to the police on 26 May 2007, photos of Gerry McCann wearing trousers with buttons had already been published on TV and print media.

We must also bear in mind that the Smiths' description of the man and his clothes was near identical to that of:
1. Jane Tanner and
2. Nuno Lourenco of Wojchiech Krokowski (the man who flew back to Poland early on Saturday 5 May). Three near-identical descriptions point to one thing >>> COLLUSION

I also find it rather strange that the police were contacted again by Mr Smith who had apparently had his memory jogged from seeing the McCann's walking down the steps of a plane and recognising the man he saw that night. That sounds a very plausible thing to do if you are honest doesn't it?

REPLY: Sorry. Not at all! He had already told police that he had only seen the man for a second or two in the dark and would never be able to recognise him again. His statement wholly lacks credibility. Also, he made his statement about this on 20 September, 11 days after viewing these images, and within days of another man, Richard McCluskey, also telephoning the police to say almost exactly the same. This also points to COLLUSION between Smith, McCluskey and others to 'frame' Gerry McCann. (There is a useful thread about the McCluskey sighting on this forum - use the search bar).

It is relevant here to recall that Martin Smith only telephoned the police about his original sighting 13 days later, and only the very day after his friend Robert Murat (they had met several times over at least two years) had been declared an official suspect in the case.     

I think you have accepted the Smith sighting as a fact when, in fact, there are multiple reasons for considering it was fabricated.

My theory is possibly quite an unusual one as I think the hoax abduction was thwarted deliberately in the hope that it would be uncovered. 

REPLY: Do you have any evidence at all for this theory?

It was so badly executed with no signs of any break in, windows open, shutters jimmied, footprints etc that anybody who could have the wherewithal to plan something like this in meticulous detail right down to doctoring of photographs as you say and not demonstrate a shred of credible evidence that an abduction took place when it actually came to it, in my opinion, has got somebody working against them.

REPLY: I am puzzled. Your theory seems to have no evidence at all that I can see supporting it. It would be helpful if you could please explain what it is. Meanwhile, there is a weight of evidence that it may have been planned over a period of four days. 




.

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Amelie McCann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Tolleshunt Knight 18.06.20 12:23

Could we please have a summary of Pat Brown's credentials in the matter of criminal profiling?

Does she have any successful experience as a criminal profiler, at all?

Does she have any particular experience in cases of missing children, child abduction and child killing?  If so, what is this experience?

What is her magnum opus on the subject of criminal profiling?  

Is she endorsed by any major law enforcement agency anywhere in the world?

Who does she carry out criminal profiling for?

Returning to the McCanns, I've been watching the detective, Goncalo Amaral, and I note that he dismisses abduction as "materially impossible".  He is quoted as saying this by the BBC.  I don't know why Amaral inserts the needless qualifier.  It could suggest a lack of confidence in his own conclusions, but we'll put that aside.  I know the BBC tell lies and engage in distortions, but let us take it that the aforesaid quote is an accurate translation of Amaral's own words.  That being the case, I am concerned that, so far, I have seen nothing to confirm that this evaluation is actually true.

What is concerning me is that, in ordinary language (in English, and I assume also in Portuguese), when we say something is "impossible", we mean that it cannot have happened, yet abduction is plausible.  That is not to say it was an abduction.  It could be that abduction is only one of several reasonable explanations.  When we say abduction is plausible, we only say that it reasonably could have happened that way.

I asked this question on my thread in the New Members section, and nobody has come forward to put me right with a reason, or list of reasons, that abduction is "materially impossible" or impossible or implausible. Yet people on this Forum seem very confident in themselves when pointing the finger at one or both of the McCanns.
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Jill Havern 18.06.20 12:53

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Google = Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Tolleshunt Knight 18.06.20 12:58

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Google = Criminal Profiler Pat Brown

When I look her up, I don't like what I find.
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by pauloalexandre 18.06.20 13:00

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Could we please have a summary of Pat Brown's credentials in the matter of criminal profiling?

Does she have any successful experience as a criminal profiler, at all?

Does she have any particular experience in cases of missing children, child abduction and child killing?  If so, what is this experience?

What is her magnum opus on the subject of criminal profiling?  

Is she endorsed by any major law enforcement agency anywhere in the world?

Who does she carry out criminal profiling for?

Returning to the McCanns, I've been watching the detective, Goncalo Amaral, and I note that he dismisses abduction as "materially impossible".  He is quoted as saying this by the BBC.  I don't know why Amaral inserts the needless qualifier.  It could suggest a lack of confidence in his own conclusions, but we'll put that aside.  I know the BBC tell lies and engage in distortions, but let us take it that the aforesaid quote is an accurate translation of Amaral's own words.  That being the case, I am concerned that, so far, I have seen nothing to confirm that this evaluation is actually true.

What is concerning me is that, in ordinary language (in English, and I assume also in Portuguese), when we say something is "impossible", we mean that it cannot have happened, yet abduction is plausible.  That is not to say it was an abduction.  It could be that abduction is only one of several reasonable explanations.  When we say abduction is plausible, we only say that it reasonably could have happened that way.

I asked this question on my thread in the New Members section, and nobody has come forward to put me right with a reason, or list of reasons, that abduction is "materially impossible" or impossible or implausible. Yet people on this Forum seem very confident in themselves when pointing the finger at one or both of the McCanns.
The only time I heard Gonçalo Amaral say "materially impossible" was in reference to the claim that the "abductor" was hiding behind the children's bedroom door, when Gerry did his check at 21:10. He said so in his documentary "The Truth of the Lie".

It is impossible because the intruder would have been immediately spotted.

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Bob the Miller 18.06.20 13:22

So how was the quote from Goncalo Amaral used by the BBC (is there a link). Did they mis quote him or use his words out of context? Not suggesting that the BBC would do that sort of thing, far too professional!
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by sparkyhorrox 18.06.20 13:27

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:What do people think of the theory that Christian B's "horrible job" was to collect Maddie's body at a pre arranged time from the apt on May 3rd?..he didn't even have to enter the apt hence no dna...

Maddie having died earlier....for me I think the night before that was the crying Mrs Fenn heard...or was it maddie's sister crying for Maddie?.....

For me it ties in with everything, the only difficulty is that the kids club records would have had to have been doctored...but if they get away with that everything else makes perfect sense.

To get hold of CB they would need a local man with local contacts....maybe a 3rd arguido??????……..

Profiler Pat Brown came up with this theory...I've added the possibility of the 3rd arguido...

And currently there is a lot of shaking of the apple tree from all sides hoping someone will crack....
Maybe not picked up from the apartment as such but didnt the dog signal cadaver odour in the bushes near the gate of the apartment? Maybe left there in the mysterious 'blue bag' that one of the Group said and retracted (correct me if wrong) it wasnt big enough to hide a......carry a tennis racquet in.. then again going back to Mrs Mc. saying 'they've taken her'.....just a thought on the 'horrible job' statement....
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Tolleshunt Knight 18.06.20 13:56

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Could we please have a summary of Pat Brown's credentials in the matter of criminal profiling?

Does she have any successful experience as a criminal profiler, at all?

Does she have any particular experience in cases of missing children, child abduction and child killing?  If so, what is this experience?

What is her magnum opus on the subject of criminal profiling?  

Is she endorsed by any major law enforcement agency anywhere in the world?

Who does she carry out criminal profiling for?

Returning to the McCanns, I've been watching the detective, Goncalo Amaral, and I note that he dismisses abduction as "materially impossible".  He is quoted as saying this by the BBC.  I don't know why Amaral inserts the needless qualifier.  It could suggest a lack of confidence in his own conclusions, but we'll put that aside.  I know the BBC tell lies and engage in distortions, but let us take it that the aforesaid quote is an accurate translation of Amaral's own words.  That being the case, I am concerned that, so far, I have seen nothing to confirm that this evaluation is actually true.

What is concerning me is that, in ordinary language (in English, and I assume also in Portuguese), when we say something is "impossible", we mean that it cannot have happened, yet abduction is plausible.  That is not to say it was an abduction.  It could be that abduction is only one of several reasonable explanations.  When we say abduction is plausible, we only say that it reasonably could have happened that way.

I asked this question on my thread in the New Members section, and nobody has come forward to put me right with a reason, or list of reasons, that abduction is "materially impossible" or impossible or implausible. Yet people on this Forum seem very confident in themselves when pointing the finger at one or both of the McCanns.
The only time I heard Gonçalo Amaral say "materially impossible" was in reference to the claim that the "abductor" was hiding behind the children's bedroom door, when Gerry did his check at 21:10. He said so in his documentary "The Truth of the Lie".

It is impossible because the intruder would have been immediately spotted.

Not true.  Below is the documentary. Scroll to 09.40 and you will see Amaral state that abduction is "materially impossible."  That said, the narrator/interviewer does get Amaral's first name wrong and I do wonder if the BBC have faithfully translated what he said in the subtitles, but why would they misrepresent him on the point?

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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by Tolleshunt Knight 18.06.20 14:03

Also, if you watch the above link from 10.45 onwards, you'll see a reference to the PJ's report.  In a single paragraph, the PJ conclude that the social group at the Tapas Bar were all lying due to the inconsistency of their statements, but is that a reliable conclusion?

Anyway, this takes us off the thread topic.  Going back to that, I am not satisfied that Pat Brown has any practical expertise in criminal profiling and I do not understand why her views and opinions should be given any more credence than any random commenter on here with some knowledge of the case.

The idea that Gerry McCann would collude and enter into a criminal conspiracy with an active paedophile in regard to anything at all, let alone the body of his dead daughter, is - for me - simply too far-fetched.  It doesn't fit and is not what one would expect of a senior medical doctor.  Yes, such a person could have accidentally killed his daughter, or had a hand in such, or found her dead, and then tried to hide the body, but the burden of proof for that is on you, not him, and wild theories about collusion with paedophiles doesn't seem very convincing.  It smacks of trying to shoehorn the McCanns into the scenario.
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New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B Empty Re: New theory by profiler Pat re Christian B

Post by cookiemuncher 18.06.20 14:06

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Could we please have a summary of Pat Brown's credentials in the matter of criminal profiling?

Does she have any successful experience as a criminal profiler, at all?

Does she have any particular experience in cases of missing children, child abduction and child killing?  If so, what is this experience?

What is her magnum opus on the subject of criminal profiling?  

Is she endorsed by any major law enforcement agency anywhere in the world?

Who does she carry out criminal profiling for?

Returning to the McCanns, I've been watching the detective, Goncalo Amaral, and I note that he dismisses abduction as "materially impossible".  He is quoted as saying this by the BBC.  I don't know why Amaral inserts the needless qualifier.  It could suggest a lack of confidence in his own conclusions, but we'll put that aside.  I know the BBC tell lies and engage in distortions, but let us take it that the aforesaid quote is an accurate translation of Amaral's own words.  That being the case, I am concerned that, so far, I have seen nothing to confirm that this evaluation is actually true.

What is concerning me is that, in ordinary language (in English, and I assume also in Portuguese), when we say something is "impossible", we mean that it cannot have happened, yet abduction is plausible.  That is not to say it was an abduction.  It could be that abduction is only one of several reasonable explanations.  When we say abduction is plausible, we only say that it reasonably could have happened that way.

I asked this question on my thread in the New Members section, and nobody has come forward to put me right with a reason, or list of reasons, that abduction is "materially impossible" or impossible or implausible. Yet people on this Forum seem very confident in themselves when pointing the finger at one or both of the McCanns.
The only time I heard Gonçalo Amaral say "materially impossible" was in reference to the claim that the "abductor" was hiding behind the children's bedroom door, when Gerry did his check at 21:10. He said so in his documentary "The Truth of the Lie".

It is impossible because the intruder would have been immediately spotted.

Not true.  Below is the documentary. Scroll to 09.40 and you will see Amaral state that abduction is "materially impossible."  That said, the narrator/interviewer does get Amaral's first name wrong and I do wonder if the BBC have faithfully translated what he said in the subtitles, but why would they misrepresent him on the point?

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Have you not realised yet after many years that the BBC misquote people and twist facts to suit their agenda and cause mischief?

In the Crimewatch reconstruction they showed the McCanns' apartment as a 5 star luxury apartment with leather chairs on the patio and inside the apartment when in fact it's a bog standard, cheap rental fitted out with cheap furniture for the rental market.

Why would they twist facts like that, not that it makes any difference to the disappearance of Madeleine, but were they trying to give the impression that the McCanns' were "wealthy" doctors living a rich lifestyle when in fact the opposite was true and they shouldn't be held responsible for the disappearance of their daughter.

If I remember correctly one of the UK Police who was assisting with the PJ in Portugal stated that "Gerry McCann should be closely looked at".  That was from a UK Police officer, not the PJ.
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