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The fridge

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The fridge

Post by Anon on 15.11.10 13:36

Dr Amaral said Madeleine was refigerated because bodily fluids were found.

There was also mention in Gerry's blog about disposing of a fridge and this reference was then deleted.

Does that mean the hire car was used to dispose of the fridge?

I wonder if Madeleine was still in the fridge when it was disposed of?
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Re: The fridge

Post by Guest on 15.11.10 15:11

Ah, the mystery of the disappearing fridge. I think this was discussed to death on the 3A's and the conclusion was that it was a myth. Many people have saved the blogs, so someone, somewhere would have had it. Also can you imagine a fridge being disposed of and noone witnessing this, it's a bit large to hide.

Welcome to the forum by the way Anon.
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Re: The fridge

Post by soulthief on 15.11.10 16:36

candyfloss I couldnt be quoted on this but didn't Amaral say the initial forensic report stated something about there being water in the fluids which suggested the cadaver had been frozen? And why did Gerry delete the reference to the Freezer he dumped? IMO the body was not in a freezer when it went in the car because a freezer is pretty air tight, I would imagine it was taken out of the freezer whilst obviously still frozen, wrapped in something..(maybe the missing pink blanket) and during transit it defrosted a little and leaked in the car, which would explain the minute quantities found.

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Re: The fridge

Post by theolivebranch on 15.11.10 18:12

Ye gods, how strange. I was thinking about the fridge in the wee small hours and thought dare I mention it, then no it has been done to death and here it is on the forum.
So my early am musings.
Earlier in the day I was attending to fridges and freezes ready for the monthly shop. And this came to me. In a holiday apartment or villa, there is no need for a large freezer, as they are only needed for long term living. So holiday lets imo at best would have a freezer only large enough for the ice cubes and maybe a pack of fish fingers or suchlike.
However, not a holiday let would more than likely need a larger domestic freezer, to do like we all do, stock up for times when we cannot get out, or special offers allow us to bulk buy. So imo if Madeleine was stored in a freezer it wasn't a holiday let.
I then thought about fridges. Could a small under the worktop fridge be turned right down to store something and yes it could. All the shelves removed and the fridge would be large enough. But to turn it to it's coldest setting would that stop decomposition, then imo it would, as this is what happens in a morgue or an undertakers storage devise.
But, and here is the rub, a domestic fridge isn't made to be on its coldest setting long term, it would struggle, and maybe even give up the ghost.
So my final opinion, sorry for the loooooong post is that if Madeleine was stored in a freezer it was not in a holiday let, so not a holiday maker.
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Re: The fridge

Post by soulthief on 15.11.10 19:01

I wouldn't imagine she was stored any where on the MW complex as no one could be sure of how indepth the search for her would be..this is where Murat or someone else living near or in PDL might  come in to it, wasn't there something about the McCanns being seen going in to an apartment block near MW's? Perhaps this is where the freezer was? Or in one of the many empty apartments Murat had access to??

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Re: The fridge

Post by theolivebranch on 15.11.10 20:09

Hello Soulthief, imo not in any holiday let as the fridges are emptied, wiped and left unplugged with the door open. So it , imo, had to be a residence with a freezer. Now could you live in a house/villa/apartment, with the body of a dead child in the freezer in your kitchen sorry to be so descriptive, but that is just the way it is? Or could you live with the body of the dead child in your garage/ outhouse freezer, then maybe they could. Or was the property empty, awaiting the arrival for the summer months of the owners. Or could it have a commercial outlet.
I have no idea, but sure as eggs is eggs GA mentions method of storage at reduced temperature.
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Re: The fridge

Post by soulthief on 15.11.10 21:35

:hi Olivebranch, I agree no one would leave freezers plugged in an empty unlet apartment but it wouldnt be too much trouble for say Murat for example to turn one on if he knew there were not going to be any visitors. we know the McCanns have friends who lived around the area, Murat may have also known people who may have been on holiday or away on business. No I wouldn't personally be happy with a dead body in my freezer, it would repulse me but all people are different. These people are doctors, they see things differently to us, they see death all the time, perhaps in their shoes their view point is, she is dead, her spirit is departed and its only a cadaver!! Not my way of thinking, but the McCanns are callous beyond words, how else do you explain their laughing like drains on her birthday? How else can you explain Gerry playing tennis? not searching? Jogging? Blogging? How can they watch video of her on tv appeals and not break down? I can't look at a video of her and not shed a tear. These people are sub human to me.

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Re: The fridge

Post by littlepixie on 15.11.10 23:06

O/T But some Doctors are callous, It goes with the job. I have posted before about my relative. He lived in a tiny isolation room (like the boy in the bubble) for months on end. His consultant became his God over many months, one of a handful of medics allowed behind the sterile barrier. Even his own mother could not enter or touch him.
Whilst his case remained interesting the consultant called daily - when things didnt go to plan my relative watched the consultant walk by without a backwards glance. That hurt him more than what was happening to his body.
I can well believe that a Doctor father who believes that "professionally" everything that could be done had been done would close his mind the minute that life is defunct.

I still can't get my head around the smiling at the church video or the Gerry clowning around on the balcony video as if he never cared.

A person becomes a cadaver the minute they die and you refridgerate a cadaver for health reasons. I am horrified that the McCanns decided to obstruct the coroner and took the law into their own hands, but I would not be horrified to find out that they put their daughters cadaver into a freezer. I would be more horrified if they didnt.
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Re: The fridge

Post by aiyoyo on 15.11.10 23:31

littlepixie wrote:
A person becomes a cadaver the minute they die and you refridgerate a cadaver for health reasons. I am horrified that the McCanns decided to obstruct the coroner and took the law into their own hands, but I would not be horrified to find out that they put their daughters cadaver into a freezer. I would be more horrified if they didnt.

That would be natural wouldnt it that if she was not disposed of immediately her cadaver would have been preserved one would have thought.
People were talking about the cadaver coming in contact with piece of metal so it could be just that and left in a cave. That would work for short period of time.

People do leave fridge switched on in unused property because unplugged fridge becomes unfit for used while plugged in one tends to retain condition, and it doesnt cost much to run a fridge.
I'm speaking from personal experience because I left mine switched on for long period of time sometimes up to two or three years in unused property.
Of course if property is derelict and things within meant for throw then that's quite different. If meant for throw then probably fridge no longer functions.
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Re: The fridge

Post by soulthief on 15.11.10 23:55

aiyoyo wrote:
littlepixie wrote:
A person becomes a cadaver the minute they die and you refridgerate a cadaver for health reasons. I am horrified that the McCanns decided to obstruct the coroner and took the law into their own hands, but I would not be horrified to find out that they put their daughters cadaver into a freezer. I would be more horrified if they didnt.

That would be natural wouldnt it that if she was not disposed of immediately her cadaver would have been preserved one would have thought.
People were talking about the cadaver coming in contact with piece of metal so it could be just that and left in a cave. That would work for short period of time.

People do leave fridge switched on in unused property because unplugged fridge becomes unfit for used while plugged in one tends to retain condition, and it doesnt cost much to run a fridge.
I'm speaking from personal experience because I left mine switched on for long period of time sometimes up to two or three years in unused property.
Of course if property is derelict and things within meant for throw then that's quite different. If meant for throw then probably fridge no longer functions.
your right fridges stink if they are not plugged in, even when the door is open there is a weird smell.

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Re: The fridge

Post by dragonfly on 07.05.11 16:58

Did a blog about the fridge ever exist? or was this a lie?

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Re: The fridge

Post by soulthief on 08.05.11 1:13

I read somewhere yesterday that Murat's house search threw up a key, that belonged to his girlfriends ex husband, who was a janitor in the complex and the key was for a a storeroom at the complex, could that be the initial hiding place and is there a fridge there>?

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Re: The fridge

Post by PeterMac on 08.05.11 8:29

Many of us have a memory of a blog about the fridge, but so far no one has been able to come up with a screen shot.   In those days the blogs were altered very frequently, and Pamalam' site tried to keep track by taking screen shots, and showing the different versions.
I don't think even that site got the fridge one.   Stevo may have done so, but I have lost touch with him.  So in the absence of hard copy evidence we are left wth a unresolved issue.   Rather like all the others in fact.

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Re: The fridge

Post by Lostfridge on 12.02.13 11:35

Could someone answer this before I scour the internet I wonder.

Was the second apartment the Mccanns rented owned by a couple called Hubbard? Are they the same Hubbards from the church?.

Is there a screenshot, proof that the blog entry existed and was edited?

Is the a photo of Gerry carrying a fridge?

I was reading this link below

http://forum2.aimoo.com/MadeleineMcCann/Individual-Topics/FRIDGE-1-796672.html
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Re: The fridge

Post by Beebfader on 12.02.13 12:28

A photo of Gerry and the fridge ? That would be one for the family album ! I do distinctly recall reading about Gerry taking it upon himself to remove a fridge/freezer which had stopped working, taking it to the tip (as you do when you're on holiday in another country) and replacing it himself, because it was written in such a way as to appear to be a perfectly normal course of action that you would replace the fridge in a rented holiday apartment yourself ! I can't claim to have been that sharp that I read it on the original blog, but I'm sure that I read it via a copy which someone had captured, but the memory plays tricks....it is indeed an elusive and crucial piece of information. I do have no doubt that it DID exist though.

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Re: The fridge

Post by chrissie on 12.02.13 12:39

The only picture I've seen of Gerry with a fridge is a spoof avatar which the poster 'sentinel' had.

I recall in the early days, a newspaper report from Portugal which had a photo of the owner saying that he would have replaced the fridge if Gerry had told him. Other posters say they saw it on his blog.

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Re: The fridge

Post by Spaniel on 12.02.13 13:14

Surely the PJ would have been monitoring the blogs.

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Re: The fridge

Post by chrissie on 12.02.13 13:17

Spaniel wrote:Surely the PJ would have been monitoring the blogs.

I'm sure they were. The posters who say they saw it on the blog say it was quickly whooshed. I can't really comment as I never saw it.

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Re: The fridge

Post by guest. on 12.02.13 13:20

chrissie wrote:The only picture I've seen of Gerry with a fridge is a spoof avatar which the poster 'sentinel' had.

I recall in the early days, a newspaper report from Portugal which had a photo of the owner saying that he would have replaced the fridge if Gerry had told him. Other posters say they saw it on his blog.

Is sentinel still posting anywhere, I liked his posts

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Re: The fridge

Post by chrissie on 12.02.13 13:22

sally66 wrote:
chrissie wrote:The only picture I've seen of Gerry with a fridge is a spoof avatar which the poster 'sentinel' had.

I recall in the early days, a newspaper report from Portugal which had a photo of the owner saying that he would have replaced the fridge if Gerry had told him. Other posters say they saw it on his blog.

Is sentinel still posting anywhere, I liked his posts

Not sure, I haven't seen him posting anywhere but I go on very few sites.

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Re: The fridge

Post by tigger on 12.02.13 13:24

Spaniel wrote:Surely the PJ would have been monitoring the blogs.

It's a good point, I think Pamalan took the precaution after that of taking screenshots.
Personally I believe there was a message about a fridge. I do not believe that Gerry ever got his own hands dirty or handled a fridge.
The dogs didn't react to his clothes at all.
I think the fridge was mentioned for the same reason that the stolen wallet and perhaps the man whose life he saved on the plane were.
Sending a safe message.
It was on the cards that the landlines and mobiles were being monitored. The frequent visits to the church might have served the same purpose.

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Re: The fridge

Post by Guest on 01.07.13 10:00

The Hubbards...the fridge /freezer was it a myth ?

http://msngroup.aimoo.com/madeleinemccann/mfthreads.msnw-action=get_message&mview=0&ID_Message=118&LastModified=4675659306690836728.htm

http://www.ownersdirect.co.uk/portugal/P3159.htm

http://www.praiadaluzapartment.com/

Interestingly enough the name HUBBARD and the link to the ownership of this apartment has been removed but does remain on the advertisment for their apartment...Andrew and Isabel Hubbard...they also mention being owners of a new fridge/freezer....discussion took place at above link. The priest and his wife Susan, are they related to this family Hubbard and if so, did the McCanns move to this apartment before moving to the villa ?

http://steelmagnolia-mccannarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/hubbardsthe-fridge-freezer-was-it-myth.html

The first link is of poster's dicussing fridge / freezer
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Re: The fridge

Post by suzyjohnson on 01.07.13 11:27

Personally, I have never believed that there was a fridge / freezer involved in this story, I think it more likely that a natural occurrence could have accounted for fluids found in the car, the cooling effect of seawater for example.

However, if a fridge / freezer is relevant, it won't be Murat who has anything to do with it, why would anyone enlist his help and then try to make out that he was responsible for an abduction? The first thing Murat, or anyone, would do under those circumstances would tell the whole truth straight away IMO.

Much more likely a close friend of one of the Tapas group, with a completely different surname, hired another apartment in the vicinity (without actually going to PdL), possibly being given a very good reason why, that they all needed to be able to keep away from the media for example.

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Re: The fridge

Post by comperedna on 01.07.13 14:33

I find it entirely possible that refrigeration could have been used. All doctors train in hospitals. Hospitals keep bodies that are not being very swiftly removed by a family's undertaker, in refrigerated compartments in the hospital morgue. Those which have to be kept for much longer, or for an indefinite time, eg an unclaimed body, or one about which there is a police case, or some dispute, go in one of their freezer compartments.

In a horrendous emergency, where a body for some reason had to be hidden, so as not to be autopsied, memories of the routine hospital procedure after a death might have kicked in. The problem then would to be to find a chest freezer in some secure place, at the bottom of which, under a lot of other frozen stuff could be placed a bag.

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Re: The fridge

Post by tigger on 01.07.13 15:38

suzyjohnson wrote:Personally, I have never believed that there was a fridge / freezer involved in this story, I think it more likely that a natural occurrence could have accounted for fluids found in the car, the cooling effect of seawater for example.

However, if a fridge / freezer is relevant, it won't be Murat who has anything to do with it, why would anyone enlist his help and then try to make out that he was responsible for an abduction? The first thing Murat, or anyone, would do under those circumstances would tell the whole truth straight away IMO.

Much more likely a close friend of one of the Tapas group, with a completely different surname, hired another apartment in the vicinity (without actually going to PdL), possibly being given a very good reason why, that they all needed to be able to keep away from the media for example.

Just where would that cooling seawater have come from in the back of a car?

Why shouldn't a close friend of the Tapas group have a completely different surname? That's pretty likely isn't it? I don't understand the last paragraph at all I'm afraid.
They did anything but keep away from the media, having been the very people who summoned them.

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