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Post by Jill Havern on 17.02.20 18:52

From Facebewk:

IMMEDIATE REACTIONS - PARENTAL INSTINCT 85009293_110801700498900_2954818872651284480_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_ohc=ClolRV7LDbwAX8sObv-&_nc_ht=scontent.fbhx1-1


IMMEDIATE REACTIONS - PARENTAL INSTINCT

You are on holiday abroad with your partner, your very young children and some friends and their very young children. Each night you leave your very young children unattended in your holiday apartment to go for dinner with your friends in a restaurant down the street. Your friends also leave their very young children unattended in their respective holiday apartments each night whilst they go for dinner with you in the restaurant down the street. You and your friend's holiday apartments are all in the same apartment block.

One night during dinner one of your friends leaves the restaurant and returns minutes later in a panic telling you that one of their children is missing from their apartment.

As a parent upon hearing the news that there is a child is missing from the apartment block where you have left your own children what is your immediate reaction? Do you panic and run to your own apartment to ascertain the safety your own children? Or do you run to your friends apartment and remain outside the door whilst your friend and their partner recheck inside their apartment for their missing child?

According to their rogatory statements Rachel Oldfield, Matthew Oldfield, Russell O'Brien, Fiona Payne and David Payne all ran to apartment 5a when Kate McCann returned to the tapas table and raised the alarm.

Despite having already taken the risk of leaving their very young children alone in their apartments none of them rushed back to their own apartments when the they heard that Madeleine is "gone".

The parental urge to ascertain the safety of one's own children would be completely uncontrollable in this situation.

One of the Oldfields and one of the Paynes could have ran straight to their respective apartments to ascertain the safety of their children instead of them all running straight to the McCanns apartment.

David Payne stated that when he ran to 5a after the alarm had been raised he went inside and helped search the apartment for Madeleine, then went to his own apartment to check on his own children and then went back to the tapas bar to ask Diane Webster to go to their apartment and watch over his children.

Fiona Payne stated that when she ran to 5a after the alarm had been raised Gerry and Kate McCann entered the apartment and she searched the area around the apartment, tennis courts and supermarket and then entered 5a. She did not go back to her own apartment for several hours after the alarm had been raised. She did not mention that David Payne had gone to their apartment to check on their children.

Rachel Oldfield stated that when she ran to 5a after the alarm had been raised she had waited at the bottom the patio steps while Matthew Oldfield and Russell O'Brien searched the garden for Madeleine. She then went to her own apartment with her partner to ascertain the safety of her daughter.

Matthew Oldfield stated that when he ran to 5a after the alarm had been raised he had waited at the bottom the patio steps while Gerry McCann, Kate McCann and David Payne entered the apartment and searched for Madeleine. He then went to his own apartment with his partner to ascertain the safety of his daughter.

(Matthew Oldfield stated in an earlier statement given to police on the 10th May 2007 that when they ran to 5a after the alarm had been raised everyone entered the apartment.)

Their rogatory statements are an indication that they knew there was no risk to the other children in their group.

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Post by Liz Eagles on 18.02.20 8:03

Then there was Dianne Webster (grandmother left at the tapas table when the scream came) to take care of personal possessions? listen to the state-of-the art baby monitor?

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Post by Verdi on 18.02.20 11:57

Jane Tanner was already in her apartment when the alarm was raised - apparently.

Dianne Webster was sent off to the Payne apartment to look after their brood after leaving the restaurant - apparently.

The other couple, I can't remember off the top of me 'ead.

But they did have a year to think about it and get their stories straight sarcastic

David and Fiona Payne taking centre stage as always.  As I said recently, it's strange how their version of the truth distances themselves from the rest of the group throughout the entire week yet became the focal point of contact after the alarm was raised.

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Post by Lance De Boils on 29.06.20 10:15

Speaking as a parent, I would IMMEDIATELY have gone to check my own kids. No doubt at all.
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Post by CaKeLoveR on 29.06.20 10:28

You would probably have had your watch, and your mobile 'phone with you, but none of the McTapas people did, we are told.
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Post by Lance De Boils on 29.06.20 10:33

@CaKeLoveR wrote:You would probably have had your watch, and your mobile 'phone with you, but none of the McTapas people did, we are told.
And people don't believe their stories? Wonder why
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Post by cookiemuncher on 29.06.20 14:10

@CaKeLoveR wrote:You would probably have had your watch, and your mobile 'phone with you, but none of the McTapas people did, we are told.
Exactly, at least mobile phones because if one of the Tapas friends was checking on other people's children (as we were told) wouldn't they then phone that parent at the Tapas Bar and say "Kate, Madeleine's crying" or "one of the twins is crying" or would they just walk back to the Tapas Bar and say "Madeleine's crying/the twins are crying" I think you should go and check" ??

All a load of codswallop.
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Post by Jill Havern on 29.06.20 17:03

@cookiemuncher wrote:
@CaKeLoveR wrote:You would probably have had your watch, and your mobile 'phone with you, but none of the McTapas people did, we are told.
Exactly, at least mobile phones because if one of the Tapas friends was checking on other people's children (as we were told) wouldn't they then phone that parent at the Tapas Bar and say "Kate, Madeleine's crying" or "one of the twins is crying" or would they just walk back to the Tapas Bar and say "Madeleine's crying/the twins are crying" I think you should go and check" ??

All a load of codswallop.
Or just in case one of the checkers needed to phone to say "Kate, didn't you have 3 kids with you on the airport bus?"

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Post by sharonl on 29.06.20 20:35

thinking Wasn't Russell in his apartment at the time, tending to his sick daughter? Isn't that when Jane imagined the faceless abductor with the moustache? Taking Russells' meal to him? Thats if she really left the table.

The answer to the opening post, apart from the obvious that there was no abductor, is that the Tapas bunch, having created the crime scene then embarked on a bit of amateur acting to give it a bit more credibility, and the children were probably all tucked up in one one apartment under the care of Russell.

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Post by miffy8 on 29.06.20 22:20

What you would do if you discovered your child was missing would be to scream loudly for help through the open window. But as we know this couldn't have happened obviously as the window was in fact closed.
What you certainly wouldn't do would be to return to the Tapas bar, leaving your other two children unattended in case the intruder was either a) still in the apartment or b) lurking nearby. If you couldn't attract anyone's attention you would surely scoop them both up, one under each arm, and then go back.

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Post by sharonl on 29.06.20 22:38

Why didn't she she call Russell for help, he was in his apartment.

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Post by sandancer on 29.06.20 22:53

@sharonl wrote:Why didn't she she call Russell for help, he was in his apartment.


Jane was in their apartment , she'd gone back to " relieve " Russell after he'd apparently bathed their daughter , changed and washed the sheets ! Busy little bee wasn't he ! He returned to finish his dinner at the Tapas . 
So Kate could have contacted Jane , after all Madeleine might have been there ! 
No wonder they didn't want to return for a reconstruction .

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Post by miffy8 on 29.06.20 23:00

How can we be sure that she was there?

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Post by sharonl on 29.06.20 23:09

@sandancer wrote:
@sharonl wrote:Why didn't she she call Russell for help, he was in his apartment.


Jane was in their apartment , she'd gone back to " relieve " Russell after he'd apparently bathed their daughter , changed and washed the sheets ! Busy little bee wasn't he ! He returned to finish his dinner at the Tapas . 
So Kate could have contacted Jane , after all Madeleine might have been there ! 
No wonder they didn't want to return for a reconstruction .

Ah, yes of course, I was thinking of the other story where she claimed that she was taking the meal to him, but really she was relieving him so that he could go for his meal. Thats if she actually left the Tapas bar at all, some of the staff say that she didn't. But then, she wouldn't have seen the faceless man with a moustache who was a cross between Rob Murat and Victoria Beckham. big grin

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Post by miffy8 on 29.06.20 23:14

So obviously she needed an excuse to be away from the Tapas bar to validate her sighting.

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Post by Lance De Boils on 02.07.20 19:16

I know this is ancient ground, So I'll do my defeated look and go!) 
The man carrying a child by the apartments, seen by JT, then drawn, could well be JT herself? 

Off I go!
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Post by Blackpied on 02.07.20 21:17

@Lance De Boils wrote:I know this is ancient ground, So I'll do my defeated look and go!) 
The man carrying a child by the apartments, seen by JT, then drawn, could well be JT herself? 

Off I go!
You never know it’s not impossible.
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Post by Lance De Boils on 02.07.20 22:24

@Blackpied wrote:
@Lance De Boils wrote:I know this is ancient ground, So I'll do my defeated look and go!) 
The man carrying a child by the apartments, seen by JT, then drawn, could well be JT herself? 

Off I go!
You never know it’s not impossible.

Side pic of the "abductor" looks more like JT than anyone else! imo. 
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Post by Lance De Boils on 02.07.20 22:26

Off to find old laptop (I hope!)
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Post by miffy8 on 02.07.20 22:35

But Julian Totman came forward and said he was Tannerman with his child from the creche. Except he was walking towards the apartments not away from them so she just reversed it to make it fit. That is what I think anyway.

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Post by crusader on 03.07.20 9:56

I always thought it was strange Kate running back to the tapas to raise the alarm.
They made a point of saying it was like sitting in your garden they were so close to the apartment.
Why didn't Kate scream from the balcony? 
More than 1 person said they heard Kate howling that night, one of them being , I think, Jayne Jensen.
Did the tapas lot and other guests wedge the entrance door to the tapas reception open? You needed some kind of entrance card or key to enter.
I wonder if the removal of Madeleine was done on the 9.30 " check"
Why, when Jane Tanner was flip flopping about on her own, did Matt and Russell, who had a baby monitor, feel the need to do a check together.
I don't for 1 minute believe the needing to use the toilet lie, there was a toilet right next to them at the tapas bar.
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Post by miffy8 on 03.07.20 10:33

There are so many inconsistencies in this whole sequence of events for any of it to be credible. Why didn't the McCann's have a baby monitor with 3 young children? Was it because they didn't want anyone to hear anything?  If it was like sitting in your back garden why have so many checks? The most baffling being that she ran back to the tapas bar when one of her children was missing, with no apparent regard for the safety of the remaining two. That, for the record, undeniably contravenes parental instinct in the highest regard.

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Post by crusader on 03.07.20 10:50

And how did the O'Brians and the Oldfields know before the holiday that they would be dining near enough to use a baby monitor?
My understanding of a baby monitor is you use it in the home to hear if the baby is asleep or is restless.
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Post by miffy8 on 03.07.20 12:04

I think most parents with very young children would take a baby monitor on holiday with them regardless, it's just part of standard baby care kit. They are designed for use in the home but they do amplify sound for all the right reasons.

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Post by crusader on 03.07.20 13:22

Good point, though I never used one. I wonder why Jane Tanner didn't hear her daughter being sick and crying.
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