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The love between Mother and Baby

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Post by Verdi on 14.09.20 13:14

@miffy8 wrote:I am suggesting that Kate loved Madeleine and the unusual behaviour she demonstrated was due to the aftermath of a combination of shock, grief and some frankly terrible acting after the death of her daughter in an unfortunate accident that was concealed.

I've never seen any indication to suggest Kate McCann was in a state of shock, or grieving.  Even her spoken words show no signs of shock or grief, from the beginning on 3rd/4th May 2007, right up to this present day.

She didn't/doesn't even show any signs of remorse, only anger and resentment.

You are your own master.   If innocent, Kate McCann had every opportunity to speak out - the truth, for love of her daughter.  Her book 'madeleine' only confirms her total disregard for love of her children and that was published four years after the event - after she had time to reflect and understand her inner self.

Did she do that?  No, she just moved on - the new normality you might say..

The love between Mother and Baby - Page 2 Kate_m13

My reason for writing it is simple: to give an account of the truth. It has always been my intention to set down a complete record of what happened to our family, for our children, Madeleine, Sean and Amelie, so that, when they are ready, the facts will be there for them to read.

Haltingly, I told him about the awful pictures that scrolled through my head of her body, her perfect little genitals torn apart.
madeleine by KATE MCCANN

Motherly love?  Humbug!

Look to nature, the guiding light for salvation.  In nature there is no corrupting influence, no filth to pervert true love.

It's mankind that creates the corrupt mind.

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Post by crusader on 14.09.20 14:35

I don't what context the above photo was taken in or when it was taken, but how in the name of sanity, will it help to find Madeleine?

Madeleine WAS a much loved Daughter, past tense, now its all about them.

They have "moved on"
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Post by pauloalexandre on 14.09.20 15:24

@crusader wrote:I don't what context the above photo was taken in or when it was taken, but how in the name of sanity, will it help to find Madeleine?
I think that photo was part of a photo op which was partly featured in the "I couldn't make love to Gerry" news article, where Kate told The Sun how Madeleine's disappearance and the events that followed it hampered her sexual relationship with her husband.

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Post by Verdi on 14.09.20 15:57

Do you mind, I've just had lunch sick !


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Post by crusader on 14.09.20 16:05

Thank you @pauloalexandre Ye god's, the mind boggles have they no shame.
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Post by Verdi on 14.09.20 16:19

Thankfully I've never been in the situation the McCanns find themselves in - the loss of a very young child. It must be the worst thing that could happen to anyone.

One thing however I think I can say without fear of contradiction .... you never move on. You might exist, carry-on living but the loss will haunt you to your dying day, you will never know peace of mind, happiness or normality. It's not humanly possible to move on.

If you take the McCanns at their word, their situation is even more tragic as they believe their daughter Madeleine, was abducted - most likely by a paedophile or child trafficking syndicate. Not knowing must be a trillion times worse than the loss of a child through illness or accident and that's unthinkable. Your life would come to an abrupt end, the remaining days on earth would be consumed by grief and searching for the truth. Something the McCans have failed to do.

No, you don't 'move on'.


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The love between Mother and Baby - Page 2 Empty Just Plain Wrong

Post by HectorDetector on 14.09.20 19:58

The final words of Miffy's post "... would be just plain wrong" struck a chord.  I was not sure why, but after some thought, I would like, if I may, add a few more plain wrongs. 😊

1. Abducting a child is just plain wrong.

2. Faking an abduction is just plain wrong.

3. Putting your children at risk by leaving them unsupervised, without justifiable reason, (child neglect) is just plain wrong.

4. Fabricating child neglect to cover-up graver wrongdoing is just plain wrong.

5.  Not reporting the accidental death of your child is, for whatever reason, just plain wrong.

6. Engaging in wrongdoing grave enough to warrant covering up an innocent accident, is just plain wrong.

7.  Hampering the police in their efforts to find your daughter by refusing to answer questions is just plain wrong.

8. Involving the media against the advice of the police is just plain wrong.

9. Misappropriation of publicly donated funds is just plain wrong.

10. Soliciting the World for help in the search for your daughter, and while the World is busy turning stones, you stroll along the beach or go for a jog, that is just plain wrong.

11. Referencing your daughter's mutilated genitalia to increase book sales is just plain wrong.

on and on and on ...

Love is a word.  A little word used in many different ways.  A word invented to group a complex set of emotions.  Love has no physical form to examine.  Love cannot be proved.  Does love exist?

People cannot prove their love, but if they demonstrate enough of the commonly recognized associated behaviours the recipient will feel loved.  The very existence of 'love' is irrelevant - it is all about feeling it.  Using KM as an example, if Madeleine was treated with respect, kindness, compassion, tenderness, ... the little girl would have felt loved. If KM demonstrated respect, ... tenderness, ... it was likely because she felt love for her daughter.  This sounds too simplistic because it is, being just my humble opinion, sorry.

A good actor can pretend to love by demonstrating as above, and have audiences believing it, if only for a short time.  A scoundrel can demonstrate love to manipulate.  A narcissistic parent can demonstrate love only if and when it suits them, usually when masked, in public.  Some masterful demonstrations of 'love' are false.  Some questionable demonstrations will be wholly genuine.

'Love' is felt in degrees.  A mother's love is viewed as the deepest felt of all. When the mother of a missing child, one possibly in the hands of a filthy beast, most of us expect to see the mother's love demonstrated despite her anguish.  Seeing a fellow mum in that position is excruciating, it is truly terrible.  I have been reduced to tears by parents' public appeals.  I thought Kate looked distraught at the first press conference, but then Gerry opened his mouth and well ...

Opinions regarding a mother's love based on limited observation may be morally questionable, but in this case, with this particular mother ...

The McCanns invited the World into the search ... people are going to voice opinions ...  if some of these opinions are just plain wrong, should it really matter given the circumstances?  

Madeleine disappeared 13 years ago, that was, and remains to this very day, just plain wrong.  

I've gone on too long again, sorry.  Dear Miffy please excuse my hijacking your phrase. 😊
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Post by miffy8 on 14.09.20 20:59

No you haven't gone on too long Hector Detector. Your posts are comprehensive and heartfelt and these are the very best. I agree with much of what you say. I too had an interesting childhood shall we say without putting too finer point on it that, has seen me in counselling from the latter part of my teens and intermittently throughout my adult life culminating in a breakdown 11 years ago now. Parents have a lot to answer for and in many ways we find ourselves 'punished for the sins of the fathers (and mothers!) I suppose with this in mind I always seek to find the good in everyone as, I like to think, maybe naively that I can succeed. There is much about this case which fascinates me and parental love is high on the agenda. I have looked at the 'happy' images of Madeleine with Kate and I do believe she was loved and felt loved. I have some alternative viewpoints from the ones that are commonplace but maybe this is not the right thread. For example I think the Tapas dining scenario happened but was a fabrication to facilitate the 'abduction' and that Madeleine had an accident when Kate was there so the accusations of neglect in this instance for me are something they brought upon themselves in their masterful attempts at self preservation. I am inclined to think that it is because they loved their children so much that they couldn't bear the thought of life without the twins if they were taken away from them that they concealed the 'truth' at all. What they have managed to achieve in all of this is 13 years of liberty, 13 years they might not otherwise have had to love and raise their two remaining children. I optimistically say that perhaps, just perhaps parental love is what this whole fantastical heartbreaking story is really all about.

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Post by CaKeLoveR on 14.09.20 21:02

goodpost
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Post by CaKeLoveR on 14.09.20 21:04

My last post was intended for Hector Detector! Don't know what happened there.
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Post by crusader on 14.09.20 22:14

Snipped from miffy8

I am inclined to think that it is because they loved their children so much that they couldn't bear the thought of life without the twins if they were taken away from them that they concealed the 'truth' at all. What they have managed to achieve in all of this is 13 years of liberty, 13 years they might not otherwise have had to love and raise their two remaining children. I optimistically say that perhaps, just perhaps parental love is what this whole fantastical heartbreaking story is really all about.

That makes a lot of sense to me.
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Post by Verdi on 15.09.20 1:10

@miffy8 wrote:I am inclined to think that it is because they loved their children so much that they couldn't bear the thought of life without the twins if they were taken away from them that they concealed the 'truth' at all. What they have managed to achieve in all of this is 13 years of liberty, 13 years they might not otherwise have had to love and raise their two remaining children. I optimistically say that perhaps, just perhaps parental love is what this whole fantastical heartbreaking story is really all about.

What planet are you on miffy8 - miffy by name mythy by nature?  I must say I admire your commendable philanthropic outlook on life.

You seem to be ignoring everything presented in favour of mawkish sentimentality. This is not a Barbara Cartland novel (although reading Kate McCann's book I quite understand why some would think so), it's a real life situation - the case of a missing three year old child, who almost certainly died late April/early May 2007.

Do you seriously believe Kate McCann is a loving devoted mother, who would lay her own life down for the sake of her children? That's what we are talking about here. I mean seriously?

You've been shown photographic evidence of Kate McCann's behaviour, video footage, interviews, above all else her book madeleine - yet you still believe her to be a loving mother who would die for her own child?

I see her as a selfish manipulative evil person who would stop at nothing to escape justice. That is not the model of instinctive motherly love.

Firstly I ask .... why would the McCanns need to cover-up at fatal accident, unless it revealed something sinister that must be silenced at all cost. Don't give me the repeated tripe about loss of reputation, twins taken into care, professional ruination blah blah blah. For a genuine caring loving parent, that wouldn't matter one iota - the only important factor would be their children.  Anyway, the likelihood of any of that happening in reality is remote in the extreme.

Accidents happen all the time, frequently fatal, it's a fact of life. A good parent wouldn't go running for shelter because of an accident - if fatal they would break down, blame themselves, think nothing but what ifs and whys for the remainder of their days on earth. The marriage or partnership would almost certainly break-down under the stress of the loss alone, before thinking about blame and recriminations and self loathing.

This is naivete in it's purest form, even though I'm sure many others would agree with your viewpoint.

Jeeezus, when I think of all the hard work by so many in the name of Madeleine McCann, I frankly find it soul destroying to read your commentary. So much has gone on over the past 13 years, so much is documented - the evidence is all there, yet still you can't see the wood for the trees.

I despair.

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Post by pauloalexandre on 15.09.20 1:54

We don't know how Madeleine died, so speculating about why her death was covered up is utterly pointless and very distracting.

It's also unhelpful to list multiple choices about how it happened (accident/drug overdose/violent attack), because you're then going to run around in a circle trying to search for evidence that fits one of those three choices, and that simply isn't how you solve a crime. What happens if it's none of those options? It's very important to first look at the evidence and see what it tells you. 

The evidence must always come before the conclusion.

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The love between Mother and Baby - Page 2 Empty Re: The love between Mother and Baby

Post by Secondthoughts2 on 15.09.20 13:04

@miffy8 and @Crusader

We seem to be on the same page as to Kate McCann not being a cruel mother who abused her children (or Madeleine alone).

The many pictures of Madeleine before this fateful holiday, show a very happy child.  The videos, show not only a very happy Madeleine, singing, chatting but a very happy little brother and sister also, all playing together having fun.  A happy home environment. And very happy images of mother and kids also before this holiday can be found online.  Happy family pictures of Madeleine with extended family also.

So I am completely in agreement with you both that it is perfectly possible that this was indeed the case, but due to whatever happened during that holiday, which resulted in the disappearance of this child, the above changed. 

The reasons for the change we will all have our own opinions on, we could speculate until the cows come home.   But again, I am in agreement with you both your thoughts on this also.

Her actions after Madeleine was reported as missing the interviews, and all else, do not however portray her in same light as prior to the holiday.  Far from.

The statements, pictures, and actions of both Gerry and Kate McCann regarding Madeleine after her disappearance, don't show them to be uncaring, unloving parents, more as a pretty heinous inhumane pair, who most would consider not fit to have children in their company let alone in their care. 

Without knowing exactly what became of Madeleine, and how she was disappeared from that apartment - and without knowing more about the McCanns their friends who accompanied them on that holiday - we cannot know (presuming they are responsible for Madeleine's removal from apartment) what TO THEM would have been so bad that they would chose the route they did. i.e. the whole abduction scenario and all it has entailed all these years. 

An accident being covered up does not necessarily mean that something more sinister directly related to Madeleine had to be covered up, as in abuse - there could be a whole host of other reasons which McCanns considered, or one major one, which prompted the choices they made.  Reason/s which they considered if made known would result in no way out for them (though to public, no reason would be justifiable) but we can recognise that this may be the case.  And whatever it was it warranted, Mitchell being assigned?

It's not all clean cut.

There must be numerous cases of persons killing someone, not intending to, perhaps in a scuffle, an accident, but in panic then attempting to cover it up.  Doesn't mean they were a bad person before the incident. 

McCanns in general (Gerry in particular, arrogant, selfish, self absorbed)don't come across as ever having been persons whose company you'd like to keep.  But I just can't see that they were cruel nasty abusive parents to their three children.

Whatever the reason for their choices in this very sad case of a missing child, presumed dead, McCanns weren't then, and they're still not prepared to divulge or come clean with the truth as to what happened to their daughter.   

As Gerry said, what was it, find the body and prove we killed her, or something along those lines?

Unless the evidence of their/any wrong doing is discovered (or rather allowed to be acted on by police authorities) those reasons will go to the grave with Gerry and Kate.
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Post by Silentscope on 15.09.20 13:30

@Secondthoughts2 wrote:@miffy8 and @Crusader

Unless the evidence of their/any wrong doing is discovered (or rather allowed to be acted on by police authorities) those reasons will go to the grave with Gerry and Kate.

bow2 Exactly. Thank you all!
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Post by pauloalexandre on 15.09.20 15:07

@Secondthoughts2 wrote:As Gerry said, what was it, find the body and prove we killed her, or something along those lines?
There's no evidence whatsoever that Gerry said anything of the sort.

Second-hand reports can be so easily misconstrued and that's how myths grow and propagate.

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Post by Verdi on 15.09.20 16:04

@pauloalexandre wrote:
@Secondthoughts2 wrote:As Gerry said, what was it, find the body and prove we killed her, or something along those lines?
There's no evidence whatsoever that Gerry said anything of the sort.

Second-hand reports can be so easily misconstrued and that's how myths grow and propagate.

As can documentary and interview videos edited to create the wrong impressions - seen a few examples of that kind of manipulation over the years.

This case has certainly attracted some evil forces along the way.

Whilst on the subject of misquotes, Gerry McCann never said .... 'confusion is good'. Yet still to this very day it's repeated ad-nauseam.

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Post by Verdi on 15.09.20 16:08

@Silentscope wrote:
@Secondthoughts2 wrote:@miffy8 and @Crusader

Unless the evidence of their/any wrong doing is discovered (or rather allowed to be acted on by police authorities) those reasons will go to the grave with Gerry and Kate.

bow2 Exactly. Thank you all!

The evidence is all there - you just need to open your eyes.

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Post by CaKeLoveR on 15.09.20 17:44

'The evidence is all there - you just need to open your eyes' (Verdi). It seems that not everybody wants to do that, though.
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Post by Secondthoughts2 on 15.09.20 17:56

@Verdi

Thank you for explanation on as to what Gerry McCann did/didn't say (as in no evidence to support)  I stand corrected.  Enough to figure out without myths!  

Confusion is good - that's one I haven't heard of before!

Was thinking about this though, and perhaps you will know, did he ever say anything, in interview/steps of a Court of Law akin to, and in reference to Madeleine being missing and in response to reporter - 'Well where is the child then?'

Something in back of my mind about this.

Thanks

Maybe a thread (if you haven't already got one) listing statements (reported as being said by McCanns )which are in fact myths in this case
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Post by pauloalexandre on 15.09.20 18:16

@Secondthoughts2 wrote:@Verdi

Thank you for explanation on as to what Gerry McCann did/didn't say (as in no evidence to support)  I stand corrected.  Enough to figure out without myths!  
It was me who said it, not Verdi.

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Post by Secondthoughts2 on 15.09.20 18:28

@ Pauloalexandre

That's Newbies for you!
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Post by Secondthoughts2 on 15.09.20 18:36

@cakelover

I think those who want justice for Madeleine have eyes wide open.  

When tangible evidence presents itself no matter what that evidence they accept it.

What public believe is evidence is one thing.  Getting evidence heard in a Court of Law in this case whole other story!

As to whether Madeleine (her siblings) were not cared for or not loved (speaking before the holiday) there is no evidence to support this.
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Post by Verdi on 15.09.20 21:59

@Secondthoughts2 wrote:Maybe a thread (if you haven't already got one) listing statements (reported as being said by McCanns )which are in fact myths in this case

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t13428-quote-of-the-day#354575

hat

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