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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Mm11

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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

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Post by Verdi on 28.11.19 15:19

Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Fariha Karim | Jonathan Ames, Legal Editor
November 28 2019


Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Ff98804bc-115b-11ea-96fb-8041210fa214

Superintendent Novlett Robyn Williams failed to report an indecent image sent by her sister on WhatsAppDominic Lipinski/PA




Senior police figures have condemned Scotland Yard over its decision to press for the prosecution of a highly decorated black female officer.

The former Metropolitan Police commissioner Lord Blair of Boughton criticised police and prosecutors for bringing Novlett Robyn Williams before the Old Bailey on a charge of possessing indecent images of children.

Williams, 54, a former acting chief superintendent who was once tipped to become the first black chief of Scotland Yard, was sentenced on Tuesday to 200 hours of community service and put on the sex offenders register for five years.

She was one of 17 people to whom her sister sent an indecent video on Whats-App of a five-year-old girl. Williams failed to report it.

The case has raised concerns over the adequacy of present legislation on indecent images of children, with fears that simply being sent an image could lead to a criminal conviction and the status of a sex offender.


In a letter to The Times, Lord Blair said of Williams: “I have not heard the evidence. I do not criticise the conviction because that is a matter for the judge and jury but I am very concerned about the decision to prosecute. The code for prosecutors is explicit that a prosecution must be in the public interest. This is a police officer, a public servant, who has had an exemplary career.”

Lord Paddick, the former deputy assistant commissioner of the Met, said that he knew of officers accused of more serious crimes, including sexual offences, whose cases were dealt with internally rather than in court.

He said: “My personal experience has been that some officers are protected in similar, if not more serious circumstances, including in allegations of serious sexual offences, while other officers have had the book thrown at them.” He cited Scotland Yard figures showing that black and minority ethnic police officers faced a disproportionate number of internal formal misconduct matters.

The Metropolitan Police Force management statement said that ethnic minority staff, who make up 13 per cent of officers, were the subject of 22 per cent of recorded conduct matters.

The proportion of complaints from the public that were about them, at 13 per cent, was in line with the proportion of ethnic minority officers in the force.
Lord Paddick added: “There is a perception at least that [minority] officers are being unfairly treated in the Met.”

The Met’s Black Police Association said that institutional racism was behind the decision. Janet Hills, the chairwoman, said: “This whole thing with Robyn has left a lot of officers, black or white, thinking if that can happen to her, what chance have I got?”

Senior lawyers have backed the CPS’s decision to prosecute, arguing that the possession of indecent images is a strict liability offence, meaning that there are no defences.

“That applies to every single member of the public,” John Cooper, QC, a criminal law specialist, said. “The law designates offences as such on the grounds that the offence, as of and in itself, regardless of intent, may be dangerous.”

The Metropolitan Police said: “It is completely wrong to suggest this serious matter involving possession of an indecent image of a child being sexually abused was pursued due to the ethnicity of the defendants. It would be entirely wrong for criminal allegations of this severity to be dealt with ‘internally’.”



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/ex-met-police-boss-lord-blair-blasts-novlett-robyn-williamss-prosecution-gb7dwvchl

...................


So, at the flick of a switch, a potentially serious crime closely connected to the pandemic child sex abuse horror, the case is redirected, softened, to that of racism/sexism?

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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by PeterMac on 29.11.19 8:58

Blair and Paddick are both wrong.

If there had been a long and public trial and then an Acquittal, Blair's views might carry more weight.  But here the evidence supported the allegation, and there was a conviction.   
(We can argue about the appropriateness of Strict Liability Offences some other time.  That is at the heart of this miserable affair. As the silk has explained "the offence MAY be dangerous". Parliament got this one very wrong, as they so often do)

Paddick is more seriously wrong.   There either had to be a prosecution of all, or of none.
It would be intolerable if the sister and brother-in-law had been prosecuted but Williams had not, purely because she is female / police officer / senior / has a medal / is black .  (delete as appropriate)

And for the record, I do have an interest.   She was one of my Sergeants at St Anne's in Nottingham many years ago.  I know her reasonably well. 
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Post by BlueBag on 29.11.19 9:44

I take it the indecent images were a bit more serious than a child playing with no clothes on or being bathed.

It never used to be unusual for parents have the embarrassing photos in an album ready to show to adult child's girlfriend/boyfriend. 

Now we have camera phones with videos but parents still pull the same stunt.

Was there a sexual nature to the pictures?
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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by PeterMac on 29.11.19 13:28

Yes.  "the video, which she received from her partner and allegedly depicted a young girl performing a sex act on a man." The girl was said to be 5.

The sister, a social worker, sent it with the message - approximately - "What can be done about this ? he should go to prison for the rest of his life . . ."

But legally they were each  'in possession' of it, just as you are if you find a package of cocaine, or a revolver in the street and pick it up.
You are "in possession" but are not prosecuted if you take it directly to the proper authorities, (though interestingly that is not given as one of the Statutory defences under s 28)
They didn't.
Someone else did, before they could.

It is an interesting example of the Prisoner's Dilemma, if anyone is interested in logic games of that type.
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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by Jill Havern on 29.11.19 14:43

I wonder why she failed to report the image?

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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by Verdi on 29.11.19 15:12

Note the date..

Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Scree358

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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by Verdi on 29.11.19 15:14

And now..

Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Scree359

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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by PeterMac on 29.11.19 20:33

@Jill Havern wrote:I wonder why she failed to report the image?
My email account is "spammed" every day with a number of adverts for Viagra
which I am told is common to most people who are on Hotmail.
I "BLOCK' them so fast as I can, but their trace is on my computer forever.

There are also from time to time ones inviting me to open a url/ of some type, or to view a particular film clip.
I choose to delete and block them before opening them and allowing their content into my system,
but again I am fairly sure that the fact that they were sent and received could be tracked by a Forensic expert.

I don't "report' them because I have no idea what is on them, nor do I wish to know, and because they are ubiquitous
but if you find something on my computer which I did not open, say that I am therefore "In Possession" of it
and use the fact of my Non-reporting of it . . .
I have no answer, except to say that your definition of Possession is perverse.
But the Act says "Possession".   And it is the Law of England and Wales.

And it came from her own half-sister, who is a fellow professional in the caring services, who was asking for advice 
about how the person involved could be locked up for the rest of his life . . .
to which obviously Robyn would have no sensible answer. As nor do I.

A great wrong has been done.
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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by BlueBag on 29.11.19 21:06

I agree.
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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by PeterMac on 30.11.19 7:19

email just received from another retired Supt, Met.

"Lots developing around Robyn W. Ian Blair a former Commissioner has come out in support of Robyn, as have The Telegraph and The Daily Mail. Today The London Evening Standard ran a very supportive piece by a former Director of PP who basically said that piece of law is outdated and was never meant to contend with social media. It also transpires that another C/Superintendent is being investigated as Robyn sought his advice re the clip and he didn't disclose it to police and in not doing so impeded an investigation!   He's the Chair of the Superintendent's Association in London.  I can see Robyn retaining her job! "


On the news yesterday we saw film of a hero holding the carving knife he had seized from the murderous genocidal mislum.
He was technically "In Possession".
Clearly he has "lawful excuse and good reason"
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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by Verdi on 02.12.19 1:19

I'm hooked on the BBC crime production 'The Line of Duty'.

I know it's only a story, which put the willies up Dame Cressida Dick (understandably), but I'm given to understand television production teams do a lot of research into subject matter when producing a television drama.

Series 1-3 was unmissable viewing - the rise and fall of DI Matthew 'Dott' Cotton.

He was covering up a serious crime.  In the process he shot DI Lindsay Denton (superb acting) in the head point blank range, which he tried to pin on fellow officer DS Steve Arnott- amongst other crimes.

Thanks to the shrewd observant DI Kate Fleming (superb acting), he was rumbled ending in a dramatic finale leading to his death.  An outstanding performance by DI Fleming and the Anti Corruption team.  How they draw the felon out to reveal guilt is remarkable - fascinating!

Just goes to show, you can never trust who you work alongside.

Enter Sloperation Grunge..



A policeman's lot is not a happy one.

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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by Jill Havern on 15.03.20 7:02

@PeterMac wrote:And for the record, I do have an interest.   She was one of my Sergeants at St Anne's in Nottingham many years ago.  I know her reasonably well. 
She's been sacked:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51874630

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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by sharonl on 15.03.20 7:36

@PeterMac wrote:
@Jill Havern wrote:I wonder why she failed to report the image?
My email account is "spammed" every day with a number of adverts for Viagra
which I am told is common to most people who are on Hotmail.
I "BLOCK' them so fast as I can, but their trace is on my computer forever.

There are also from time to time ones inviting me to open a url/ of some type, or to view a particular film clip.
I choose to delete and block them before opening them and allowing their content into my system,
but again I am fairly sure that the fact that they were sent and received could be tracked by a Forensic expert.

I don't "report' them because I have no idea what is on them, nor do I wish to know, and because they are ubiquitous
but if you find something on my computer which I did not open, say that I am therefore "In Possession" of it
and use the fact of my Non-reporting of it . . .
I have no answer, except to say that your definition of Possession is perverse.
But the Act says "Possession".   And it is the Law of England and Wales.

And it came from her own half-sister, who is a fellow professional in the caring services, who was asking for advice 
about how the person involved could be locked up for the rest of his life . . .
to which obviously Robyn would have no sensible answer. As nor do I.

A great wrong has been done.

If the evidence, as reported in the press, is correct then you are probably right and a great wrong has been done.

But, is this a case of outdated laws and people getting things wrong or a case that Robyn had too much knowledge about something that was being hushed up?  Knowing what we know, I would go for the latter.
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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by PeterMac on 15.03.20 8:56

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/13/police-chief-robyn-williams-sacked-over-child-sexual-abuse-video-despite-support

Williams is appealing against her conviction by majority verdict in November 2019, and the court of appeal is yet to decide whether it will hear her case.
Williams, 54, was one of the most senior female African-Caribbean officers in Britain and a founder member of the National Black Police Association, and helped to set up a gay police association. She has campaigned for more women in policing and has been awarded the Queen’s Police Medal. The hearing was told that she had never taken a day off sick.
Williams remains on the sex offenders’ register following her conviction, despite the prosecution at her trial accepting she had no sexual interest in children and had never watched the video.
END
What then is the "mischief' against which this sentence purports to protect ?
What purpose is served by this ?
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Post by Cammerigal on 15.03.20 23:16

From my perspective eg reading media reports and not seeing the case evidence first hand, she may have been 'fitted up' by the Met.

A typical early warning threat sent 'to keep your nose out of confidential business' by MI dark forces was of a simple tax investigation. This is disruptive and time consuming for the recipient. The next level would be planting nefarious evidence eg obscene material. I was advised at the time that this is never to be ignored,  nor to understimate the lengths the service would go to. Richard Tomlinson found out the hard way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Tomlinson
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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by Verdi on 16.03.20 0:46

Evidence is planted in order to implicate.

Evidence is hidden in order to exonerate.

Evidence is ignored in order to obfuscate.

Whichever way you look at it - corruption will vindicate.

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Post by CaKeLoveR on 16.03.20 9:55

I find it strange that this image was sent, by her sister, to so many others. I find the entire business to be strange, in fact. Is the sister guilty of distributing images of child abuse?
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Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution Empty Re: Ex-Met police boss blasts Novlett Robyn Williams’s prosecution

Post by Verdi on 16.03.20 11:47

What is anyone doing with images of child abuse and/or pornography in the first place? Isn't it something only found on the dark web and distributed by like minded perverts?

Would it be a normal and reasonable response to pass-on such sensitive material to another (even an officer of the law) in such a casual manner? Report information that comes to hand to the appropriate authority yes but a definite no to passing on images of child abuse - for whatever the professed reason.

Police and associated authorities are specifically assigned to investigating the pandemic horror of child abuse. Their offices have ways and means of tracking the web, the offenders and their dark material. Just like Jim Gamble, ex of the CEOP.

Sorry to lower the tone of the thread.

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Post by CaKeLoveR on 16.03.20 13:54

You're not, Verdi. That image left the confines of the sister's work environment, which is worrisome, in my opinion.
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