The Strange World of Jeffrey Epstein

aquila wrote:Then there is his elder brother who will become King, cosying up to Jimmy Savile.

There is also that association with the pedophile Bishop.

Like Andrew... Charles of course knew nothing about it and maintained his association AFTER the Bishop was cautioned by the Police.

The world these people inhabit is nothing like the world ordinary people live in.

Sex, sex, sex... and then... more sex.

Move along.

An interesting article in the DM today.

I've snipped this bit

Mandelson and the prince’s chumminess first made headlines in 1999, when Mandelson was reported to be dining regularly at Sunninghill, the prince’s home. He then agreed to join Andrew’s ‘full stop’ NSPCC campaign against child abuse, showing up to a series of fundraisers which the duke attended.

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Prince Andrew supported an NSPCC campaign against child abuse and continued to be friends with a convicted paedophile...priceless! (or not entirely priceless to be exact).

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...for everything else there's master card

you don't need a rope to hang yourself nor a hook

Abuser v. Accuser. A case for the European Court of Human Rights - surely?

Prince Andrew 'was an abuser', says Epstein accuser

21 September 2019

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Virginia Giuffre said she was "trafficked" to Prince Andrew

An American woman who says she had sex with Prince Andrew as a 17-year-old has told NBC News that she was "trafficked" to the prince.

Virginia Giuffre, formerly Roberts, described him to the US TV network as "an abuser" and "a participant".

She has previously said she was abused in the bathroom of a London house, where she was pictured with the prince.

The Duke of York has denied having "any form of sexual contact or relationship" with Ms Giuffre.

It was part of a statement issued by Buckingham Palace, on behalf of the prince, which added that the claims were "false and without any foundation".

Ms Giuffre is one of several women who claim they were abused by financier Jeffrey Epstein, who killed himself in prison last month while awaiting trial on sex trafficking and conspiracy charges.

She claims Epstein directed her to have sex with a number of powerful men, including Prince Andrew.

Andrew 'appalled' by Epstein's sex abuse claims
Prince Andrew's links to Jeffrey Epstein
Epstein accuser urges Andrew to 'come clean'
Who was Jeffrey Epstein?

In August, the prince said in two statements that he was "appalled" by reports of Epstein's crimes, but never saw any of the behaviour that led to his conviction in the "limited time" they spent together.

Now 35, Ms Giuffre is one of six women interviewed by the US TV network's Dateline programme about alleged abuse by Epstein.

She said she was recruited by Ghislaine Maxwell, a friend of Epstein, one summer when she was working as a locker room attendant at Mar-a-Lago, the Florida resort owned by President Donald Trump.

Ms Maxwell, who is the daughter of disgraced British newspaper tycoon Robert Maxwell, has repeatedly denied any wrongdoing.

Ms Giuffre told Dateline: "The first time in London, I was so young. Ghislaine woke me up in the morning and said, 'You're gonna meet a prince today.'

"I didn't know at that point that I was going to be trafficked to that prince."
'Do for him what you do for Epstein'

She said she was taken to "Club Tramp" where Prince Andrew gave her alcohol, possibly vodka, in the VIP section.

The prince asked her to dance and the three of them - Prince Andrew, Ms Maxwell and the 17-year-old Ms Giuffre - returned to Ms Maxwell's house.

Ms Giuffre said that Ms Maxwell told her: "He's coming back to the house and I want you to do for him what you do for Epstein."

She said the abuse began in the bathroom and moved to the bedroom.

"He wasn't rude or anything about it, he said 'thank you' and some kind of soft sentiments like that and left," Ms Guiffre said.

"I just couldn't believe it, that even royalty were involved."

Ms Giuffre has previously said that she was abused three times by the Duke of York, with one incident allegedly occurring at Epstein's New York mansion and another at his estate in the Caribbean.

Speaking about Prince Andrew, she said: "He denies that it ever happened and he's going to keep denying it ever happened, but he knows the truth and I know the truth."

She rejected suggestions that she was motivated by the possibility of compensation, saying that the statute of limitations prevented her making a legal claim.
'Disposable'

The Duke of York said he first met Epstein, a wealthy hedge fund manager, in 1999. Ms Maxwell, described by Epstein as his best friend, was photographed several times at social events with the prince.

Epstein and Ms Maxwell were also pictured together on a pheasant shoot on the Queen's estate in Norfolk.

In 2010, after Epstein had been convicted of sex offences relating to procuring a minor under 18, Prince Andrew was photographed again with the financier in New York's Central Park. Footage shows him inside Epstein's mansion at about the same time.

NBC also spoke to a British woman who says she was abused by Epstein, Anouska de Georgiou.

She told the network that the abuse had conditioned her to be "silenced, isolated, secretive and shameful" but coming together with other alleged victims had created a "very special bond" between them.

"Jeffrey thought that we were disposable and he threw us all away. Look who's still standing," she said.

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I wish this woman - or the press, would get their story straight. Whatever, in my view she's out to make a few bob out the situation she finds herself in.

My guess is, the Epstein scandal hit the headline, Ms Giuffre foresaw her name being dragged through the mire because of her previous lifestyle, so jumped in first with tales of abuse. If I'm wrong, why did she wait until Epstein was exposed (excuse the inference) before selling her story.

Epstein is dead, he is now safe but Prince Andrew is alive and kicking. If he's guilty of having it off with an underage girl, do something about it and stop these stupid headlines.

The media are having a field day at present, what with one thing and another. Is this all a ploy to reclaim their former power - before the advent of the internet?

Food for thought ....

QUOTE
"If I'm wrong, why did she wait until Epstein was exposed (excuse the inference) before selling her story."


I suspect for the same reason that many other people are forced to wait until the threat of Schillings or Farter-Ruck has passed, OR that she had to be secure in the knowledge that there were / are sufficient people saying the same sort of thing that she alone cannot be targeted.

Eady J threatened the editor of Private Eye, Ian Hislop,  with immediate imprisonment if he were ever found to have committed a libel at any time in the future . DESPITE the FACTS subsequently showing that on most of the occasions where Private Eye had been found liable, they had in FACT been absolutely accurate,  the Complainant had been lying and the solicitors had very possibly known or realised this. [Or at the very least should have made proper enquiries to establish this]

On this Forum we understand how they work.  We have seen it in action, and have seen the persecution of a single person who stood alone at that time.

Will the Duke sue ?  
It might have been better for him to have said nothing, rather than deny it !

Prince Andrew visited disgraced Jeffrey Epstein ‘to end friendship’

Sources say the prince was a ‘trophy friend’ who now sees the billionaire was an ‘undercover’ paedophile

Prince Andrew has claimed that a controversial visit to see Jeffrey Epstein after the billionaire financier had been convicted of child sex offences was to tell him they could no longer be friends.
The Duke of York has told friends that the trip to New York in December 2010 was an attempt to break off contact with the paedophile.
The Queen’s second son has faced three months of withering criticism over his friendship with Epstein, who was found hanged in his New York jail cell in August, weeks after being charged with more child-trafficking offences involving girls as young as 14.

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Prince Andrew at Epstein’s New York home in 2010MAIL ON SUNDAY
Andrew declined to criticise Epstein until after his death, but The Sunday Times can reveal that he now accepts his friend was an “undercover” paedophile similar to Jimmy Savile, the BBC television star who raped and sexually assaulted hundreds of victims.
A senior source close to Andrew said he believed Epstein was “very good at keeping his cover” in the same way as Savile, who did not face prosecution before he died in 2011. After the celebrity was exposed as a paedophile within months of his death, Scotland Yard identified 450 alleged victims, aged between eight and 47, who had been assaulted over a 54-year period.
“Every example of anyone behaving like Epstein, who has later been discovered, has actually been very good at keeping their cover,” said the source. “If you have someone like the duke, you probably don’t show that side of yourself to him. That’s the sadness of being someone like the duke, you sometimes don’t see the real person because you are a bit of a trophy friend.”
One of Epstein’s many alleged victims, Virginia Roberts Giuffre, has claimed the financier recruited her as a “sex slave” and forced her to have sex with Andrew in London, New York and on Epstein’s atoll in the US Virgin Islands.
The duke visited the atoll on several occasions. It was dubbed “paedophile island” by locals because of the stream of young women who were flown in. However, Andrew has strongly denied any “sexual contact or relationship with Virginia Roberts” and any “impropriety with underage minors”.
Andrew has faced particular difficulties over the visit he made to Epstein’s £60m Manhattan house in December 2010, not long after the paedophile had been released from an 18-month jail sentence for child prostitution offences.
This newspaper can reveal that the prince now claims the purpose of the visit has been widely misunderstood. “The duke has been hammered for one mistake, which took place in 2010,” said the source. “He has apologised again and again for the error of judgment. But what he did wasn’t criminal. It was a mistake. He went to see a friend to tell them he couldn’t be their friend any more.”

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Prince Andrew with Virginia Roberts Giuffre in London in 2001 when she was 17REX FEATURES
It appears to have been a raucous farewell. This year, it emerged that Epstein organised an intimate dinner during the visit in honour of Andrew with guests including the Hollywood actor Woody Allen, and the American TV stars Katie Couric, Charlie Rose, Chelsea Handler and George Stephanopoulos.
During the visit, Andrew was pictured waving to a young woman as she left the property, which the FBI later found housed thousands of graphic photos, many of underage girls, and a safe filled with CDs labelled “nude girls”.
Last week, The Sunday Times revealed that the FBI had expanded its Epstein investigation to identify more of the billionaire’s victims, who could provide information on the royal.
Sources at the Department of Justice, which oversees the FBI, said they would not give Andrew special treatment because of his royal status. The inquiry has identified 100 sex-trafficking victims, most aged between 14 and 15.
Andrew has also been embarrassed by a photograph of him in 2001 with his arm around the waist of Roberts Giuffre, who was 17 at the time. The justice department and FBI believe the photograph is genuine. However, friends of the duke say they have doubts over its authenticity and claim that the original photograph has “never been produced”.
“Prince Andrew does not recognise the photo. And the more you look at it, the odder it gets,” said the source. “The arm around the waist looks weird. It’s a very long arm.
“Look at his fingers in the photo. The duke has quite chubby fingers; the ones in the photo just don’t look right.
“The royal family all have chubby fingers; it is a family trait.”

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It's reported that Epstein had 13 'phone numbers for Prince Andrew, who claims to be unaware of the man's leanings.

Prince Andrew joined Epstein’s island orgy, Virginia Roberts Giuffre claimed

Matthew Moore, Media Correspondent

October 21 2019, 12:01am, The Times

Prince Andrew was involved in an orgy with Jeffrey Epstein and nine girls on the financier’s private island, it is claimed in a TV documentary to be broadcast tonight.

The claim was made by one of the women, Virginia Roberts Giuffre, in US court documents. The Duke of York has denied ever having sex with her.

A photo of the prince with his arm around her waist, taken when she was about 17, emerged in 2011, but his supporters have suggested that the image was faked. Ms Roberts Giuffre alleges that she was trafficked by Epstein to have sex with his powerful friends, including Prince Andrew, three times.

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As I've said before .... if the Grand Old Duke of York is guilty of sex offences with underage girls or boys, then put him on trial. Otherwise just shut up.

What's to be gained by mulling over the same old carp, on the word of one young woman who claims to have been young, gullible and innocent - used and abused. If there is positive proof to substantiate the allegations then go for it - otherwise forget it.

He probably did get his leg over - so what? Had it been a very young child, say a three/four year old, then reason enough to demand justice for the victim but a seventeen year old? I'll wager she knew exactly what the score was when embarking on her new adventure in the world of wealth and fame.

I'm sure there are far more sinister skeletons in the Duke's closet, along with his ex but not ex missus Sarah Ferguson, if the desire be to string him up for past misdemeanours.

Epstein is dead.

Many high profile people openly admit they have been Guilty of extremely serious offences, but nothing is ever done.
Knights and Peers of the Realm, and more recently Members of Parliament, boast about their possession and use of Controlled Class A drugs.
This carries 7 years imprisonment and an unlimited fine.
But nothing is ever done.

Others seem happy to speak about their sexual exploits with underage men, at a time when this was unlawful.
However unsavoury or indiscreet or inappropriate his behaviour, I am unaware that he has done anything which contravenes the law of the UK.

It would be suicide to investigate his suicide - but then if anyone's feeling suicidal what better suicide to investigate?

You should copyright that one!

CaKeLoveR wrote:It's reported that Epstein had 13 'phone numbers for Prince Andrew,  who claims  to be unaware of the man's  leanings.

So Prince Andrew could have saved himself the air fare.  A text would have done it.

Good point.

Only just come across this:
 
These scrubbed reports reveal new secrets into the Prince Andrew-Jeffrey Epstein relationship
 
Several now-censored reports from the 1990s and early 2000s reveal that Prince Andrews involvement with the minors exploited by Jeffrey Epstein is greater than previously believed.
 
By Whitney Webb
 
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Also a link to this one claiming Israeli intelligence connections:
 
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Prince Andrew’s experts study ‘doctored’ photos

A forensic specialist is among those casting doubt on pictures linking the royal to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein

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Those close to the duke believe the photo of him with Virginia Roberts Giuffre may have been doctored because, in reality, there is a 9in height difference between the two

October 27 2019, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

Prince Andrew’s inner circle has commissioned investigators to examine two photographs that put him at the centre of the Jeffrey Epstein paedophile scandal amid fears that he may be the victim of an elaborate “stitch-up”.

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Err .... perhaps he, sorry she, was wearing killer heals?

Dear Mr/Mrs/Ms/Master/Thingy Forensic Specialist,

Please contact findmadeleine.com. they desperately need your help.

Regards,

A well wisher.

Jim Gamble alert !!!

Verdi wrote:Prince Andrew’s experts study ‘doctored’ photos

A forensic specialist is among those casting doubt on pictures linking the royal to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein

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Those close to the duke believe the photo of him with Virginia Roberts Giuffre may have been doctored because, in reality, there is a 9in height difference between the two

October 27 2019, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

Prince Andrew’s inner circle has commissioned investigators to examine two photographs that put him at the centre of the Jeffrey Epstein paedophile scandal amid fears that he may be the victim of an elaborate “stitch-up”.

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....................

Err .... perhaps he, sorry she, was wearing killer heals?

Dear Mr/Mrs/Ms/Master/Thingy Forensic Specialist,

Please contact findmadeleine.com. they desperately need your help.

Regards,

A well wisher.

Jim Gamble alert !!!

If that photograph is genuine, why would Andrew agree to having a photograph with his arm around an underage girl, especially if she was being hired for him?

As for her, she doesn't give the impression that she is the subject of sexual abuse, she seems quite content to be with Andrew whatever the circumstances. If anything went on there, I would say that she was a willing party even if she was just 17. Did she accept any payment? Did she make any reports of abuse back then?

Andrew was a friend of Epsteins' even after he was exposed as a paedophile, this is the worrying point where Andrew is concerned.
As for her, she looks very happy to be where she is. That photograph doesn't give the impression

I agree ^^^ wholeheartedly!

She looks to me as though she was having a ball - pardon the inference.

The paedophile accusation is a bit tenuous. I realise sex with anyone under a 'certain' age is frowned upon and invariably labeled paedophilia but considering the 'age of consent' variants across the globe, I personally feel sex with a 17 year old is not paedophilia.

Consider a 16 year old boy having sex with a 14 year old girl - is the boy branded paedophile?

Somewhere along the line I read this young person was 'discovered' working at a Trump golfing venue - at the age of 15. She willingly went along for the ride - again please excuse the inference, having been seduced by the attraction of a life of fashion, money and the high life in general.

Tell me she didn't know what she was doing.

Ages of consent in Europe

The ages of consent vary by jurisdiction across Europe. The ages of consent are currently set between 14 and 18. The vast majority of countries set their ages in the range of 14 to 16; only three countries, Cyprus (17), Ireland (17), Turkey (18) do not fit into this pattern. The laws can also stipulate the specific activities that are permitted or differentially specify the age at which a given sex can participate. Below is a discussion of the various laws dealing with this subject. The highlight age is that at which, or above which, an individual can engage in non-commercial unfettered sexual relations with another who is also at or above that age, provided that person is not in a position of power, a relative, or commits another form of exploitation (such as abuse of power, immaturity or dependence). All jurisdictions in Europe have an equal and gender-neutral age limit.

The below is a list of all jurisdictions in Europe as listed in List of sovereign states and dependent territories in Europe.

Read on..

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sharonl wrote:

Verdi wrote:Prince Andrew’s experts study ‘doctored’ photos

A forensic specialist is among those casting doubt on pictures linking the royal to the paedophile Jeffrey Epstein


Those close to the duke believe the photo of him with Virginia Roberts Giuffre may have been doctored because, in reality, there is a 9in height difference between the two

October 27 2019, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

Prince Andrew’s inner circle has commissioned investigators to examine two photographs that put him at the centre of the Jeffrey Epstein paedophile scandal amid fears that he may be the victim of an elaborate “stitch-up”.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/prince-andrews-experts-study-doctored-photos-zvnq3n90l
....................

Err .... perhaps he, sorry she, was wearing killer heals?

Dear Mr/Mrs/Ms/Master/Thingy Forensic Specialist,

Please contact findmadeleine.com. they desperately need your help.

Regards,

A well wisher.

Jim Gamble alert !!!

If that photograph is genuine, why would Andrew agree to having a photograph with his arm around an underage girl, especially if she was being hired for him?

As for her, she doesn't give the impression that she is the subject of sexual abuse, she seems quite content to be with Andrew whatever the circumstances.  If anything went on there, I would say that she was a willing party even if she was just 17.  Did she accept any payment? Did she make any reports of abuse back then?

Andrew was a friend of Epsteins' even after he was exposed as a paedophile, this is the worrying point where Andrew is concerned.
As for her, she looks very happy to be where she is.  That photograph doesn't give the impression

I agree about the picture... it does look like it may have been photo-shopped.

By who?

The game here is that if this photo is false then obviously all the other accusations are false by association and Prince Andrew is completely innocent.

Mind games.

Video here: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


The body of disgraced money man and sex offender Jeffrey Epstein, who was found dead in his Manhattan federal prison cell in August, bore telltale signs of homicide despite an official ruling that he killed himself, a pioneering forensic pathologist revealed to “Fox & Friends” in an exclusive interview Wednesday.

The bombshell claim by Dr. Michael Baden, a former New York City medical examiner who has worked on high-profile cases during a five-decade medical career, is certain to reignite suspicions that surfaced immediately after Epstein, who was awaiting trial on federal sex-trafficking charges involving underage girls, was discovered dead in his cell on Aug. 10. Baden, who was hired by Epstein’s brother and observed the autopsy, told Fox News its findings are more consistent with homicidal strangulation than suicidal hanging. He noted that the 66-year-old Epstein had two fractures on the left and right sides of his larynx, specifically the thyroid cartilage or Adam’s apple, as well as one fracture on the left hyoid bone above the Adam’s apple, Baden told Fox News

[size=18]“Those three fractures are extremely unusual in suicidal hangings and could occur much more commonly in homicidal strangulation,” Baden, who is also a Fox News contributor, said.
While there’s not enough information to be conclusive yet, the three fractures were “rare,” said Baden, who's probed cases involving O.J. Simpson, President John F. Kennedy, Martin Luther King, record producer Phil Spector, New England Patriots star Aaron Hernandez and many others.
“I’ve not seen in 50 years where that occurred in a suicidal hanging case,” the 85-year-old medical legend told Fox News.

Baden, who's examined more than 20,000 bodies and hosted HBO's "Autopsy," explained that if a person weighed 120 pounds and their head weighed 10 pounds, there would be 110 pounds of pressure on the neck at the jaw during a hanging. But, if someone put a hand around a person's neck and squeezed, that could double or even triple the pressure on the neck, Baden said.
There were also hemorrhages in Epstein’s eyes that were common in homicidal strangulation and uncommon, though not unheard of, in suicidal hangings, the forensic pathologist said.
“The prominent hemorrhage in the soft tissues of the neck next to the fractures is evidence of a fresh neck compression that could have caused the death,” Baden said.
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Baden stressed his independent study was not complete. “The investigation is not completed until all the information has come in,” he said.
Epstein was found hanging in his prison cell at the high-security [size=18]Metropolitan Correctional Center in Manhattan and was later declared dead, investigators said.
Prosecutors alleged that the previously convicted sex offender paid girls as young as 14 hundreds of dollars for massages before he molested them in his homes in New York and Palm Beach, Fla., between 2002 and 2005. He was awaiting trial in federal prison, thus federal agencies -- presumably the FBI and Justice Department -- had jurisdiction over the investigation into his death, Baden explained.


He said it was unknown to him and the Epstein family what work the feds may have done and what results they might have.
The ligature, or item used to tie something tightly, allegedly was made from a sheet that had been twisted and put around Epstein’s neck, Baden said. Evidence on the cloth material could help prove whether or not someone else was involved in Epstein's death.
“Whoever it is would have their DNA all over the ligature,” he said. “We don’t have those results yet,” he added, saying those results “should be reported quickly to give an idea and lessen the speculation.”
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New York City Medical Examiner Barbara Sampson ruled Epstein’s cause of death to be a suicide by hanging.

“It appears that this could have been a mistake,” Baden said. “There’s evidence here of homicide that should be investigated, to see if it is or isn’t homicide.”
But Sampson on Wednesday is standing by her findings.
“Our investigation concluded that the cause of Mr. Epstein’s death was hanging and the manner of death was suicide. We stand by that determination," she told Fox News in a statement. "We continue to share information around the medical investigation with Mr. Epstein's family, their representatives, and their pathology consultant. [/size]

"The original medical investigation was thorough and complete," she continued, adding that "there is no reason for a second medical investigation by our office.”
Epstein previously was discovered on July 23 -- over two weeks before his death -- on the floor of his prison cell with [size=18]marks around his neck, after which he was placed on suicide watch.[/size]

He was [size=18]taken off suicide watch a week later and put in another cell with a roommate, Baden said -- but the second inmate was taken out a few days after that, leaving Epstein alone in the cell.[/size]

On the day Epstein was found dead, the prison security had experienced a “total breakdown” in procedure, according to Baden.
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“It was determined that the two guards who were supposed to be working in that area of the prison had allegedly fallen asleep and hadn’t made their 30-minute rounds for more than 3 hours,” he said.


Then there were security cameras that were supposed to be recording the cell and the hallway outside, to see who went in and out. Both apparently [size=18]had malfunctioned, according to Baden.[/size]

Mark Epstein, Jeffrey’s next of kin, had hired Baden to perform an independent investigation because the family wasn’t getting answers -- and if his brother’s death was, in fact, a homicide, “he and others may be at risk,” Baden said, “because of somebody not wanting knowledge given out.”

Through his five decades of experience, Epstein’s death is not straightforward, Baden said.

[/size]“It doesn’t give you the answer," he said. "It's not a typical hanging case.”

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