How big was the McCann party?

by PedroJose on 15.05.19 4:03

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone knew how many McCann connections were in PdL at the time Maddie went missing? I mean apart from the T7. It was these videos that got me wondering:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsW_rsTDE2w6eJOTkIldpiQ

Because it seems like a lot.. and I wondered how well did they know people before they went to PdL? Because it's always claimed that the Paynes organised the holiday and it's implied that everyone hardly knew each other, but I don't think that's necessarily true, I think maybe they did know each other.

So far I think there is:
McCann
Payne
Tanner
Oldfield
Gorrod
Murat (through Tanner / Gorrod)
Totman
Other doctor whose name I forget but was reportedly there with the Totman family...

That's a lot of connections other than the T7 and more doctors. Some chappie on one of the UK crime / news programmes said there where 9 couples. At the time I thought he was mistaken and meant 9 people (i.e. T9), but when you see how many people are there who happen to have connections to the McCanns (a bit tenuous maybe?) I thought maybe he was right.

by **sharonl** on 15.05.19 6:48

Good question

We are told they were a party of nine, but there may have been others out there who either just knew them or were part of a holiday party, or part of something else they were involved in. If they were members of the Spartacus club, then thar is huge, worldwide.

Your question is like asking how long us a piece of string?.

by Cmaryholmes on 15.05.19 7:20

@sharonl wrote:Good question

We are told they were a party of nine, but there may have been others out there who either just knew them or were part of a holiday party, or part of something else they were involved in. If they were members of the Spartacus club, then thar is huge, worldwide.

Your question is like asking how long us a piece of string?.

Spartacus Club?

by **PeterMac** on 15.05.19 8:55

Interesting that they always quote a party of 9

There were also EIGHT children. But clearly they don't count, as we know.
They can be locked up every evening – or NOT locked up – so they don't get in the way

The Party was, even on their own reckoning, 17 people.

by **Verdi** on 15.05.19 14:24

David Payne organised the trip to Portiugal on behalf of the group of friends, with the exception of Dianne Webster, who was said to have made her own arrangements.

Why she tagged along with a group of 30 somethings remains a mystery - at least to me.

The holiday detail, was checked out by the PJ. The group consisted of nine adults and their respective children, there is no reason to think otherwise.

Yes, the Goddards were staying somewhere in Luz during the same period as the McCann group. That signifies nothing but coincidence.

There is no reason to suppose any of the McCann group knew, or were known by other Ocean Club guests or anyone else in and around Luz - that's what this is, just supposition. What's more it's been chewed over time and time again, always leading back to square one.

The Ocean Club was a third rate family holiday destination, with nothing to offer but the usual package tour deals.

What goes on behind closed doors however, is another kettle of rotting sea bass.

by NickE on 15.05.19 14:51

Moita Flores said, "The mystery lies with one or two of the ten or twelve elements who used to enter that apartment".

by PedroJose on 15.05.19 16:56

Thanks for the replies. I have difficulty getting my head round the numerous coincidences. No idea who the Goddards are - first I've heard of them. Just occurred to me - did you mean to type Gorrods?

Apologies for re-hashing ground you have probably been over, I've done a search for the topics I'm curious about, catching up with a few years of input is quite hard for a newbie!

I have a few more questions I wondered if anyone knows the answer too, but I'll try searching the forum again first :)

by Doug D on 15.05.19 19:59

Sharonl:

'If they were members of the Spartacus club,'

Where has that suggestion come from? Never seen it before.

by **Verdi** on 15.05.19 22:49

PedroHose wrote:Apologies for re-hashing ground you have probably been over, I've done a search for the topics I'm curious about, catching up with a few years of input is quite hard for a newbie!

No harm going over old ground providing it's moving forwards and not backwards thumbsup

.

by PedroJose on 15.05.19 23:11

Again, sorry if you have seen this already...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/paedophiles-who-prey-on-youngsters-worldwide-1310556.html

Article in The Independent, describes the Spartacus club, quotes Ray Wyre stating child prostitution clubs made through personal connections. Guess this fits with GA saying Maddie could be a victim of someone her parents knew without her parents being aware. Could also account for all those coincidences of friends of friends of friends just happening to be in that one place in the world during the same week.

Can anyone point me to any posts explaining how the DNA of JT ended up in a house in Burdens / Burgau? (I forget the location).

Thanks.

by **Verdi** on 16.05.19 1:09

Hold up PedroJose, you're getting carried away.

There is no evidence to suggest a connection between the McCanns, the Ocean Club and the Spartacus Club. Linking an alleged comment made by M. Amaral through an anonymous interpreter with such a bizarre scenario is quite frankly beyond the pale.

If, that's a very big if, the Spartacus Club features anywhere in this web of intrigue, it will be connections in the UK - not the Ocean Club.

I repeat, there is nothing to suggest that other Ocean Club guests staying at the same time as the McCann group of friends, had any connection whatsoever. This is just trying to create a salacious scenario without a scrap of evidence to support it.

If I may put a stop to any supposition about Jane Tanner's DNA being located at Burgau, I refer you to the PJ files thus..

Immediately, the question concerning the differentiating value of some haplotypes [haplotype (Greek haploos = single) is a combination of alleles at multiple loci that are transmitted together on the same chromosome] was raised, namely concerning JANE TANNER, page 4175, which was located in a residence in Burgau, which, in our understanding, would not be viable and logical, or to say the least, would be very strange. Therefore, in order to clarify this situation, a clarification was requested from that Institute, pages 4320 and following, which, in its reply, is peremptory in stating that there are haplotypes that are identical among each other, in a percentage that is still significant, pages 4325 to 4328. This means that the hair that was found inside that residence, while possessing the same haplotype as JANE TANNER, belongs to someone else.

by PedroJose on 16.05.19 1:36

Hi Verdi,

I didn't mention the Ocean Club, or even think of it in the context you suggest. I'm also not getting carried away, as I haven't attempted to link anything together as you described, rather I think you are getting carried away and adding far more to my post than I wrote. What I submitted was a concept that others understood, sharonl put an illustration to the concept (i.e. Spartacus). I note the confusion over the use of the word 'club' in other posts, in this thread it simply follows Spartacus, as stated as an illustration of a conceptarmigan,

by PedroJose on 16.05.19 1:46

Oh dear, one finger typing on a small screen with auto correct...

Anyway, hopefully this provides adequate context for you to understand the carrying away is not on my part.

I have to say, I joined this forum as through several visits it appeared as if a group of people sought to explore possibilities and half-followed avenues in an attempt to establish a plausible, if not likely scenario, for poor Madeleine and those who loved her. To do this I believe it is necessary to look every where, to claim the phrase no stone unturned. I have not enjoyed the experience so far, I have seen the petty squabbling amongst members on posts and am quite taken back and the lynching I have received for something that I did not remotely say. I am saddened, I thought this would be a meeting of minds, a collaborative and open discussion between people seeking a common goal. I thank you for allowing me a glimpse of your archives, but I don't think this is the environment for me. I wish you luck in whatever your endeavours may be, but respectfully request you remove me as a member.

by **Verdi** on 16.05.19 2:11

PedroHose,

CMOMM is as you rightly say '~~a meeting of minds~~, a collaborative and open discussion between people seeking a common goal' - and has been for well over nine years.

Sorry you find the forum not the environment for you after only one day - you could always reconsider. Even if only to benefit from the wealth of information in our archives.

If however you are adamant, there is no need to make a public announcement - you can quietly remove yourself here..

https://www.forumotion.com/unscribe

It's better you do it yourself, to avoid any future repercussions as regards the forum's integrity.

I hope however you reconsider. Disagreement is inevitable when such a sensitive case is under discussion, it doesn't mean you are not valued as a member but of course the decision is entirely yours to make.

by Lance De Boils on 02.08.20 12:01

@PedroJose wrote:Oh dear, one finger typing on a small screen with auto correct...

Anyway, hopefully this provides adequate context for you to understand the carrying away is not on my part.

I have to say, I joined this forum as through several visits it appeared as if a group of people sought to explore possibilities and half-followed avenues in an attempt to establish a plausible, if not likely scenario, for poor Madeleine and those who loved her. To do this I believe it is necessary to look every where, to claim the phrase no stone unturned. I have not enjoyed the experience so far, I have seen the petty squabbling amongst members on posts and am quite taken back and the lynching I have received for something that I did not remotely say. I am saddened, I thought this would be a meeting of minds, a collaborative and open discussion between people seeking a common goal. I thank you for allowing me a glimpse of your archives, but I don't think this is the environment for me. I wish you luck in whatever your endeavours may be, but respectfully request you remove me as a member.

Hello and a belated welcome from me. There are many very intelligent, erudite members here. You need to choose your battles.

by Lance De Boils on 02.08.20 12:10

Oh and connections - its bizarre. Firstly, check out my Jo Youle thread. I'll point you to more. As I have, Tony's done lots of research.

Also look up Miriam Rich.

Cat baker and Chloe Corner is another interesting link. imo.

Oh and finally (for this post,) Stuart Prior and the possible connection there.

Then there's the Sky weather girl who just happened to live there.

The inflatable sign was connected.

Off top of head. Many. Including witnesses.