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In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Mm11

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In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

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Post by Cammerigal on 31.07.19 9:57

@PeterMac wrote:
@willowthewisp wrote:To Petermac, Bluebag hit the point, "what Have I got In My Pocket" Politicians, Humans. 

It's Not a hidden message, the "Human Race" is wrecking the World you and everyone else lives in, be it by Politicians, powerful Leaders?    I KNOW
Humans have commenced the Wars, right up to the present day and have No desire it seems to Stop, either, Iran, Middle East, Korea, China, Russia, America,?  I KNOW
Wars fought by Religion throughout the World?   I KNOW
Perhaps the human race will use whatever method to start the prevailing Wars? I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS.  YOU CAN'T START A PREVAILING WAR
If they got to another planet and there was a life form similar, the Ones from earth programmed to take them "Over", concur them?  I DON'T KNOW WHAT THIS IS INTENDED TO MEAN, IF ANYTHING
What has any of this got to do with anything ?

Could you tell us what your first language is.  It may help us to grasp whatever point you are trying to make.
I spend my professional life dealing with those who have English as their second language. I have learnt to cut them a little slack and in turn recognise my aussie idioms and accent can be hard to comprehend, to gentle Asian ears. Blue bag and Willow make often erudite,  on the money comments and raise important points. Yes, sometimes it requires re-reading, as their grammar and syntax can be hard to comprehend. Please bear with them everybody!
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Post by Ladyinred on 31.07.19 10:06

BlueBag's posts are fine, I have no issue at all understanding them.
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Post by Jill Havern on 31.07.19 11:04

Eight Reasons the EU Will Suffer Far More Than UK in Brexit
ANALYSIS | 05:30 GMT



In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Mike_1-637001470933544304

The EU would be wise to make a deal with the UK. It will get clobbered in the event of no deal.
 
Conventional wisdom says the UK will get hit harder than the EU in the event of a no deal Brexit. Conventional wisdom is wrong.

Here are eight reasons the EU will suffer more in both the short and long term.

Reason 1: Corporate Taxes

The UK can and likely will slash corporate tax rates. A lower corporate tax rate will mitigate much of the profit damage suffered by UK corporations in the event of no deal.

Note that one of the EU's biggest complaints against Ireland now is the "unfair" corporate tax structure of Ireland.

Reason 2: Currency Fluctuations

A falling currency is good for exporters and bad for importers. The British Pound has been falling in anticipation of Brexit.

In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Mike_2-637001477509573244



Reason 3: Balance of Trade

In the event of no deal, WTO tariffs kick unless the EU offers to work out a trade deal. Under WTO rules, the EU could do that and rules allow a lengthy 10 years to get it done. The EU should agree to do that, but with animosity rising, it probably won't.

In a rising tariff setup, exporters will suffer far more than importers. Germany has an enormous trade surplus with the UK.

In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Mike_3-637001477754888553

Image from Order of Rank of Germany's Trading Partners.

Angela Merkel is very concerned about German exports as well she should be.

Throw in the increasing chance of Trump putting tariffs on German cars and the EU will get crucified. A very severe German recession is in the cards and the EU faces a double whammy of Brexit plus Trump.

Note that a falling currency will mitigate some of the Tariff damage on UK exporters while compounding the problems for the EU.

Reason 4: Fishing Rights

In Brexit, the UK halts all EU fishing rights. EU fishermen will get clobbered.

Reason 5: Trade Deals

The UK will be able to make its own trade deals and set tariffs how it pleases.

Reason 6: Rules and Regulations

The UK will finally be free of inane EU rules and regulations on basically everything but especially agriculture.

Reason 7: Brexit Fees and Pay to Play Fee

Some dispute this, but the UK can halt the Brexit breakup fee. Boris Johnson has threatened to do that. Regardless, the UK will stop paying into the EU coffers even it does pay the breakup bill. The EU has budgeted for UK payments. When the UK stops paying, the EU will have to raise taxes to cover the difference.

Reason 8: Long Term Consequences

Both the EU and UK will suffer in the event of no deal but the long-term consequences strongly favor of the UK.



https://www.fxstreet.com/analysis/eight-reasons-the-eu-will-suffer-far-more-than-uk-in-brexit-201907310530

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Post by Verdi on 31.07.19 12:43

Conventional wisdom tells me, if Brexit ever materializes, the EU will do everything in their power - under and overboard, to sabotage it's transition and future.

UK departure will cause irreparable damage to the EU, it will never recover from that damage. The UK is a major contributor, without that financial backing the EU will fall apart - and they know it!

It's no wonder they are being so obstructive. Doomed, never going to be an easy ride.

How long is it now since the referendum?

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Post by PeterMac on 31.07.19 13:05

@Ladyinred wrote:BlueBag's posts are fine, I have no issue at all understanding them.


Nor I.
Can anyone out there help me with this one however ?

"If they got to another planet and there was a life form similar, the Ones from earth programmed to take them "Over", concur them? "


It is included on a Thread about Brexit

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Post by Jill Havern on 31.07.19 13:16

thinking nah

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Post by PeterMac on 31.07.19 19:49

Let us not forget that under Godrot Broon the pound slipped to an official € 1.02.   If you wanted to change money you actually got less than € 1.
In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Euro_p10

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Post by willowthewisp on 31.07.19 22:40

Nothing to compare with Mr Heath shafting the UK people, cut sterling by 144% on joining EEC, with No Vote, your In?

But that didn't make the UK electorate poorer did it, then the "Fixed Wilson" 1975 Referendum?

Forty One Years later, wrong result for now Not so smug Cameron, I' M Offski,ta, ta, over to you Theresa, Now Boris, the twister?
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Post by Verdi on 31.07.19 23:45

No-deal Brexit plans to get £2.1bn boost

  • 1 hour ago

Related Topics


In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 _105478272_mediaitem105478270

The government has announced an extra £2.1bn worth of funding to prepare for a no-deal Brexit.

The plans include more border force officers and upgrades to transport infrastructure at ports.

There will also be more money to ease traffic congestion in Kent and tackle queues created by delays at the border.

Other measures include money for stockpiling medicines to ensure continued supplies, as well as a national programme to help businesses.

"With 92 days until the UK leaves the European Union it's vital that we intensify our planning to ensure we are ready," said Chancellor Sajid Javid, announcing the move.

"We want to get a good deal that abolishes the anti-democratic backstop. But if we can't get a good deal, we'll have to leave without one.

"This additional £2.1bn will ensure we are ready to leave on 31 October - deal or no-deal."


But shadow chancellor John McDonnell described the plans as "an appalling waste of taxpayers' cash, all for the sake of Boris Johnson's drive towards a totally avoidable no-deal".

He added: "This government could have ruled out no-deal and spent these billions on our schools, hospitals, and people.
"Labour is a party for the whole of the UK, so we'll do all we can to block a no-deal, crash-out Brexit."

Analysis by Faisal Islam - Economics editor

"Turbo-charging" no-deal preparation is the energetic promise of the new Treasury, which under previous management had been accused by the now prime minister and his Brexiteer allies of dragging its feet on funding for such measures.

But there will be hundreds of new border force officers required for new checks, as well as improvements to port infrastructure.

Some of this boost, however, is a repeat prescription for vital medicine supply - spending tens of millions again on reserving cross-Channel ferry capacity and for specialist warehousing and stockpiling that was not, in the end, required after the last Brexit deadline.

All this is designed to mitigate the anticipated freight gridlock around Dover and Calais.

But that is not entirely in the government's hands. Much depends on whether the French authorities choose to enforce full customs and health checks on freight from the UK.

The flow across the Channel also depends on the preparedness of many smaller traders, more than half of whom have not signed up to the most basic customs registration that will become mandatory for European trade under no-deal.

An advertising campaign will target this vital group. It will have to persuade them that no-deal is highly likely, even as the prime minister himself suggests the chances are vanishingly small.

The new money consists of £1.1bn which will be provided to departments and devolved administrations immediately, while a further £1bn will be made available if needed.

This comes on top of £4.2bn already allocated for Brexit preparations by the previous chancellor, Philip Hammond.

The measures announced by Mr Javid include £344m to be spent on new border and customs operations.

This includes recruiting an extra 500 border force officers, in addition to 500 already announced, while there will also be more money for training customs agents and processing UK passport applications.

Another £434m will be spent on ensuring continuity of vital medicines and medical products, including freight transport, warehousing and stockpiling.

Of the rest, £108m will go on promoting and supporting businesses "to ensure they are ready for Brexit", including a national programme of business readiness and "helping exporters to prepare for, and capitalise on, new opportunities".

There will also be a public information campaign and an increase in consular support for Britons living abroad, at a cost of £138m.

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49183324

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Post by willowthewisp on 01.08.19 0:01

If these measures had been taken in 2016 by Theresa May, she may well have still been in power, but that is what she failed to do, UK Leave EU, all those wasted procedures by 650 nefarious MP's, who know better than the public?
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Post by Verdi on 01.08.19 1:50

Granted, spending 2.1 billion quid (that's one heck a lot of cash) in-house is commendable, rather than dishing it out to the EU by the bucket load only to be controlled by a pseudo unity with promises of utopia  but where will it all end?

Bankruptcy?

Who will be the victim - the taxpayer?

The transition I fear will be the downfall.  Rue the day the UK ever entered the pretentious ideal of the EU.

A fools paradise.

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Post by PeterMac on 01.08.19 6:39

@Verdi wrote:Rue the day the UK ever entered the pretentious ideal of the EU.

As far as I can remember we joined the Common Market.   countries trading together without tariffs and so on

Only then did it become the European Economic  Community - with the emphasis again on Economy / trade

The exact point at which it became a Union is, I think, Maastricht.
and from that point it starts growing into a totally different beast, with plans for a unified Army, Laws which overrule National statues
the power to impose taxes, and the whole nonsense of allowing people from poor countries to migrate to rich ones and then, ludicrously, to claim Benefits
at the level granted to inhabitants of the rich country.

That later point could have been solved by giving Benefits to unemployed people at the level paid in their own country.
But Blair wanted the votes, perhaps

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Post by BlueBag on 01.08.19 10:51

@PeterMac wrote:and the whole nonsense of allowing people from poor countries to migrate to rich ones and then, ludicrously, to claim Benefits"

Guaranteeing the impoverishment of more powerful local states (us!) and dependence on the centralised control of the unaccountable super state.

Deliberate.

This is tyranny.

Remainers are blind and stupid.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 01.08.19 19:12

@PeterMac wrote:
@Verdi wrote:Rue the day the UK ever entered the pretentious ideal of the EU.

As far as I can remember we joined the Common Market.   countries trading together without tariffs and so on

Only then did it become the European Economic  Community - with the emphasis again on Economy / trade

The exact point at which it became a Union is, I think, Maastricht, and from that point it starts growing into a totally different beast, with plans for a unified Army, Laws which overrule National statues, the power to impose taxes, and... 
Yes, the Common Market, then European Economic Community, then just European Community, finally became the European Union around the time of the Maastricht Treaty, which some pronounce 'mass trick'. 

But the die of the principle of 'ever-closer union' of the peoples and nations of Europe was cast by the founding fathers of the European Union in the late 1940s, one of whom, Jean Monnet, wrote this:


“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”

Then there is the definition of the principle of 'acquis communitaire', which Wikipedia, accurately but not completely, defines as follows:

'Acquis Communautaire'


The term is French: acquis meaning "that which has been acquired or obtained", and communautaire meaning "of the community", i.e. the entire accumulated body of European Union law. 


It was left to Conservative MP David Davis - in a brilliant and comprehensive article on the European Union. to explain the real purpose and nature of the 'acquis communautaire':

http://www.daviddavismp.com/david-davis-mp-delivers-speech-on-the-opportunities-for-a-referendum-on-europe/


"What the European UInion has is the acquis communautaire, a doctrine which states that the powers the EU has acquired belong to the EU forever".

======

In a few words...if we stayed in the EU, the nations of the EU, including the UK, would eventually be left with NO POWERS OF THEIR OWN AT ALL.

Which is why Boris Johnson MUST get us out no later than 31 October


"What the European UInion has is the acquis communautaire, a doctrine which states that the powers the EU has acquired belong to the EU forever.



http://www.daviddavismp.com/david-davis-mp-delivers-speech-on-the-opportunities-for-a-referendum-on-europe/

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Post by Verdi on 01.08.19 21:42

Into Europe


The system of 'imperial preference' in British trade which had been declared in the 1932 Import Duties Act continued after the Second World War. In the 1950s Britain still enjoyed strong trading connections with the Commonwealth countries, but there was much feeling that the nation's trading relationships should be more fully developed in Europe.


Treaty of Rome 1957


In 1957 the Treaty of Rome established the European Economic Community which aimed to create a large European 'free trade area'. Initial British reluctance to seek membership of the Community was set aside by a decline in economic performance in the late 1950s, as compared with other European countries. In 1960 a British application to join the Community was rejected.

A new application was made in 1967 and negotiations eventually began in October 1970.

The question of whether Britain should sign the Treaty of Accession was debated in the House of Commons in October 1971.

Domestic opinion was strongly against membership and there was strong concern over whether the terms negotiated were good enough for Britain. Doubts over many issues affecting Britain's future were aired in a debate that lasted six days.

Britain Joins the European Economic Community


The Treaty was signed by Edward Heath, the British Prime Minister, in Brussels on 22 January 1972. The European Communities Bill was then introduced in the House of Commons to give parliamentary assent to Britain's membership of the EEC. Although the bill itself consisted of only 12 clauses (accepting all previous EEC regulations, the Treaty of Rome, and the terms of entry), it was subject to some 300 hours of debate before becoming law.

Britain's membership of what was then primarily an economic union came into effect on 1 January 1973. Since then the Community has developed into a much broader entity, the European Union, which was formally created by the Treaty of Maastricht of 1992. The terms of Britain's agreement to the Treaty received parliamentary approval in the European Communities (Amendment) Act of 1993, and the Union came into force in November 1993.


https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/transformingsociety/tradeindustry/importexport/overview/europe/
....................

When did Britain decide to join the European Union?

The United Kingdom made its first application to join the European Union in 1961. It was quickly apparent that there was a danger of political isolation within Western Europe, Commonwealth states were rushing to do deals with the new bloc, and it had American support. This application was vetoed by the French Government in 1963 with a second application vetoed by the French again in 1967. It was only in 1969 that the green light was given to negotiations for British membership.

The United Kingdom joined the European Economic Community (as it then was) on 1 January 1973 with Denmark and Ireland. This proved controversial at the time. The Labour party initially sought renegotiation of membership. This was toned down to requiring a referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain part of the Community. This referendum was duly held in 1975 with a 67% vote in favour of continued membership. 

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/fact-figures/when-did-britain-decide-to-join-the-european-union/
...................

Same meat different gravy.

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Post by PeterMac on 02.08.19 7:18

https://journals.openedition.org/rfcb/1364


While British Euroscepticism is frequently regarded as a phenomenon of the 1980s and 1990s and is most often seen in relation to the Conservative Party and the Thatcher and Major governments, particularly in the years leading up to and immediately after the Maastricht Treaty, the key ideas that are associated with it could already be found in the debates around Britain’s place in Europe in the previous decades.
From the earliest years of European integration with the ECSC in 1950 the refusal to be part of this process was almost unanimously supported in Britain. The multiple arguments behind this choice included many that would today be termed ‘Eurosceptic’. In 1961, as a result of the change of direction announced by the Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, and the opening of talks with the ‘Six’ about a possible British entry into the EEC, the European question assumed a central place in British political life. The ‘anti-marketeers’ mobilised support across the political spectrum, somewhat less among the ranks of the Conservatives, far more in the Labour Party. 

From both the left (Tony Benn) and the right (Enoch Powell), and at times drawing on quite different arguments, the campaign against the EEC during the 1975 referendum was unable to win over a majority of public opinion. Nonetheless, the supporters of this first attempt at a “Brexit” did succeed in placing the European question, and that of Britain’s place in Europe, at the centre of both the national political debate and of the ideological and political struggles that were tearing apart the Labour and Conservative Parties. The clashes between rival factions in the two parties in large part revolved around this question of Europe. One consequence of this was that the ‘anti-marketeers’ of these years established the ideological and organisational foundations for the following generation of Eurosceptics.

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Post by Verdi on 06.08.19 0:59

EU officials: No basis for 'meaningful' UK Brexit talks

2 hours ago

In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 _108203767_mediaitem108203765

EU officials have said there is currently no basis for "meaningful discussions" with the UK over Brexit.

Diplomats from the other 27 EU member states have been told a no-deal scenario could only be avoided by making substantial changes to the plans drawn up under former PM Theresa May - which they could not accept.

One negotiator said: "We are back where we were three years ago."

Downing Street said the EU "needed to change its stance".

A spokesperson said: "We will throw ourselves into the negotiations with the greatest energy and the spirit of friendship and we hope the EU will rethink its current refusal to make any changes to the Withdrawal Agreement."

The UK is currently set to leave the EU on 31 October, with or without a deal.

The plan negotiated between the EU and Mrs May was voted down by MPs three times.

The new Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, has pledged to "do or die", and leave by the deadline - even if it means without an agreement.

BBC Brussels reporter Adam Fleming said the meeting between the officials and diplomats was a debrief from discussions last week between the EU, UK Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay and Mr Johnson's European envoy, David Frost.

Mr Frost reiterated the prime minister's stance that the backstop element of Mrs May's plan - which aims to prevent a hard border returning between Ireland and Northern Ireland - had to be abolished.

The backstop - agreed by Mrs May in November 2018 - would see Northern Ireland staying aligned to some rules of the EU single market.

Mr Frost also said Mr Johnson's new ministers were not bound by commitments made by the previous government.

One of the EU's Brexit negotiators told the meeting that the G7 summit in France at the end of August could mark the point where it became clear a no-deal Brexit was inevitable.

But a diplomat at the meeting told Adam Fleming the comments simply reflected the speech Mr Johnson gave in the Commons the day after he became prime minister.

No reason to get back round the table

In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Scree186

The EU is not optimistic about any agreement with the UK.

The message they are getting from Boris Johnson's team is that the UK is not going to sign another deal unless it involves getting rid of the backstop.

But the EU has been clear time and time again that it isn't going to do that - the backstop is an integral part of any withdrawal agreement and it has to stay.

So the conclusion of officials is there is no reason to get back round the table at the moment, for the simple reason that they don't think they can meet the conditions Boris Johnson has set.

There are a couple of months to try and eke something out from one of the sides - to see if somebody blinks and there is some room for negotiation either in Brussels or in London.

But at the moment, many people think the direction of travel is heading towards a no-deal Brexit.

The meeting follows an interview with Health Secretary Matt Hancock, who said Parliament could no longer block the UK from leaving the EU without a deal.

In a no-deal scenario, the UK would immediately leave the EU with no agreement about the "divorce" process, and would exit overnight from the single market and customs union.

Opponents say a no-deal exit would damage the economy and lead to border posts between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Other politicians argue any disruption could be quickly overcome.

Mr Hancock said MPs had a chance to stop the outcome a number of times in recent weeks, but had failed to vote it through.

But prominent pro-EU Conservative Dominic Grieve said there were still a number of options available to MPs to block a no-deal - including bringing down the government with a vote of no confidence, and setting up a new government in its place.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49240809




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Post by BlueBag on 06.08.19 8:20

The show continues.

Boris will huff and puff and will certainly NOT do what he says he will do... Parliament won't let him.... which he knows.

There will be a big constitutional fuss.

October 31 will come.

October 31 will go.

We'll still be in the EU.
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Post by Verdi on 06.08.19 12:31

Nail on the head well and truly clouted ^^^ !

As I said up-page, Boris PM non-elect, is not a lone crusader.  He can't possibly go it alone, that's not how it works.

It's like a European ping-pong championship.

Meanwhile on with the show..

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In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Empty Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by Verdi on 06.08.19 12:44

Brexit: No 10 rejects EU's view of talks


  • 8 minutes ago


In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 _108210236_borisratasreuters
Boris Johnson is meeting Estonian Prime Minister Juri Ratas in Downing Street


The government has rejected claims it is unwilling to negotiate with the EU and wants talks to fail to allow a no-deal Brexit.
It comes after the EU said UK demands to remove the Irish backstop from Theresa May's deal were unacceptable.

EU negotiators told European diplomats there was currently no basis for "meaningful discussions" and talks were back where they were three years ago.

Downing Street said the EU needed to "change its stance".

The European Commission said on Tuesday morning it was willing to hold talks in the coming weeks by phone or in person, "should the UK wish to clarify its position in more detail".

A spokeswoman added the agreement negotiated by Mrs May - rejected three times by MPs - was the "best possible deal", and could not be re-opened.

Many opponents of Mrs May's deal cite concerns over the backstop - an insurance policy to prevent a hard border returning on the island of Ireland - which if implemented, would see Northern Ireland staying aligned to some rules of the EU single market.

A No 10 spokesperson said: "The prime minister wants to meet EU leaders and negotiate a new deal - one that abolishes the anti-democratic backstop.

"We will throw ourselves into the negotiations with the greatest energy and the spirit of friendship and we hope the EU will rethink its current refusal to make any changes to the withdrawal agreement."

New Prime Minister Boris Johnson has pledged to leave the EU by the deadline of 31 October, with or without a deal.


BBC Brussels reporter Adam Fleming said the meeting on Sunday between officials and diplomats was a debrief from discussions last week between the EU, UK Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay and Mr Johnson's European envoy, David Frost.

A senior EU diplomat told the meeting a no-deal Brexit appeared to be the UK government's "central scenario", according to the Daily Telegraph and the Guardian.

"It was clear UK does not have another plan. No intention to negotiate, which would require a plan," the diplomat is reported to have said.

Mr Frost reiterated the prime minister's stance that the backstop element of Mrs May's plan must be abolished, and stressed that Mr Johnson's new ministers were not bound by commitments made by the previous government.

He also raised concerns about the UK's "divorce bill" and the proposed role of the European Court of Justice, the EU's top court, after Brexit.

'Continued dialogue'


Further talks between the two sides have not been ruled out, and Adam Fleming said the G7 summit in France at the end of August could be the moment of truth - the point at which a no-deal Brexit becomes inevitable.

Meanwhile, Mr Johnson is meeting his first foreign leader since entering Downing Street - Estonian Prime Minister Juri Ratas.

The country's Foreign Minister, Urmas Reinsalu, said earlier that while the "reality" was the withdrawal agreement - including the backstop - had been jointly agreed by EU member states, there was still a need for continued dialogue in the coming weeks to avoid a no-deal Brexit.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme alternatives to the backstop could be discussed after the ratification of the withdrawal deal.

It would also involve a temporary single customs territory, effectively keeping the whole of the UK in the EU customs union.

These arrangements would apply unless and until both the EU and UK agreed they were no longer necessary.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49240809

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In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Empty Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by Verdi on 06.08.19 12:48

No reason to get back round the table

In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Scree190

The EU is not optimistic about any agreement with the UK.

The message they are getting from Boris Johnson's team is that the UK is not going to sign another deal unless it involves getting rid of the backstop.

But the EU has been clear time and time again that it isn't going to do that - the backstop is an integral part of any withdrawal agreement and it has to stay.

So the conclusion of officials is there is no reason to get back round the table at the moment, for the simple reason that they don't think they can meet the conditions Boris Johnson has set.

There are a couple of months to try to eke something out from one of the sides - to see if somebody blinks and there is some room for negotiation either in Brussels or in London.

But at the moment, many people think the direction of travel is heading towards a no-deal Brexit.

The meeting follows an interview with Health Secretary Matt Hancock, who said he believed Parliament could no longer block the UK from leaving the EU without a deal.

In a no-deal scenario, the UK would immediately leave the EU with no agreement about the "divorce" process, and would exit overnight from the single market and customs union.

Opponents say a no-deal exit would damage the economy and lead to border posts between Northern Ireland and the Republic. Other politicians argue any disruption could be quickly overcome.

Prominent pro-EU Conservative Dominic Grieve has insisted there are still a number of options available to MPs to block a no deal - including bringing down the government with a vote of no confidence.

He told BBC Radio 5Live the idea that Mr Johnson might refuse to resign even if he lost such a vote and another PM secured the confidence of the Commons was "breathtaking, stupid, infantile, and it won't work".

"Quite frankly, I'm astonished to hear these suggestions coming out," he added.

Meanwhile, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab will begin a tour of North America on Tuesday as part of a bid to "fire up" the UK's trade relationships with countries outside the EU.

Mr Raab said the foreign ministers he saw at a meeting of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations in Thailand last week expressed a "consistent warmth" for the UK and a "desire to work more closely with us".

However, the former US treasury secretary, Larry Summers, said the UK was "delusional" if it believed it could secure a post-Brexit trade deal with Washington.

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Britain has no leverage, Britain is desperate... it needs an agreement very soon.

When you have a desperate partner, that's when you strike the hardest bargain."


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49240809

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Post by Verdi on 13.08.19 15:21

Brexit: Legal bid to stop Westminster shutdown goes to court

1 hour ago

In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 _107225853_mediaitem95286510
Campaigners want to prevent the prime minister from closing down parliament to force a no-deal Brexit

A legal challenge to try to prevent Boris Johnson shutting down parliament to force through a no-deal Brexit has begun in a Scottish court.

A group of MPs and peers wants the Court of Session in Edinburgh to rule that suspending parliament to make the UK leave the EU without a deal is "unlawful and unconstitutional".

The prime minister has repeatedly refused to rule out such a move.

Lord Doherty agreed to hear arguments from both sides in September.

However he refused to accelerate the case through the Scottish courts, with the petitioners voicing fears that they may run out of time before the UK is due to leave the EU on 31 October.

The start of the legal action came as it emerged the UK government expects a group of MPs to try to block a no-deal Brexit by attempting to pass legislation when Parliament returns next month.

A No 10 source said they expected the challenge to come in the second week of September, when MPs are due to debate a report on Northern Ireland.

The source assumes the EU will wait until after that date before engaging in further negotiations.
Cross-party backing

More than 70 politicians have put their names behind the move, including Lib Dem leader Jo Swinson and SNP MP Joanna Cherry.

Brexit - what is proroguing Parliament?
No-deal Brexit - what would it mean?
Do MPs have the power to stop a no-deal Brexit?

A challenge brought by the same group of anti-Brexit politicians last year saw the European Court of Justice rule the UK can cancel Brexit without the permission of the other 27 EU members.

Jolyon Maugham QC, director of the Good Law Project which is supporting the latest challenge, said: "A man with no mandate seeks to cancel parliament for fear it will stop him inflicting on an unwilling public an outcome they did not vote for and do not want.

"That's certainly not democracy and I expect our courts to say it's not the law."

The UK is currently due to leave the EU on 31 October, with the prime minister pledging that Brexit will definitely happen on that day regardless of whether or not a deal has been agreed with the EU.

Most MPs at Westminster are opposed to a no-deal Brexit, and there has been speculation that Mr Johnson could try to get around this by closing parliament in the run-up to 31 October.

This is known as proroguing, and would require the permission of the Queen.

Mr Johnson argued during the Conservative leadership contest that he would not "take anything off the table", saying it would be "absolutely bizarre" for the UK to "weaken its own position" in negotiations with European leaders.

But the group of pro-Remain politicians involved in the legal action at Scotland's highest court argue that shutting down parliament in this manner would be unlawful.

The case is beginning in the Scottish courts because they sit through the summer, unlike their English counterparts.

During a procedural hearing in Edinburgh, lawyers argued that the case could ultimately be decided in the UK Supreme Court - but only after it has moved through the Scottish system.

Lord Doherty refused a motion from the petitioners to skip the first step of this, saying arguments must be heard in the outer house of the Court of Session before they proceed to the next stage, the inner house.

However he did agree to move swiftly, fixing a full hearing for 6 September.
'Can't go unchallenged'

The Commons Speaker John Bercow has said the idea of the parliamentary session ending in order to force through a no-deal Brexit is "simply not going to happen" and that that was "so blindingly obvious it almost doesn't need to be stated".

One of the petitioners, Edinburgh South Labour MP Ian Murray, said: "When Boris Johnson unveiled his vacuous slogan 'taking back control', voters weren't told that this could mean shutting down parliament.

"The prime minister's undemocratic proposal to hold Westminster in contempt simply can't go unchallenged."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49320773

Ten years from now .... waiting ....

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In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Empty CURRENT STATE OF THE PARTIES. Conservative + Democratic Unionist, 321 --- Others 321. General Election Ahead!

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.08.19 23:47

Conservative311
Labour247
Scottish National Party35
Independent16
Liberal Democrat13
Democratic Unionist Party10
Sinn Féin7
The Independent Group for Change5
Plaid Cymru4
Green Party1
Speaker1
Total number of seats650
Working Government Majority *0



 

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Post by JimbobJones on 15.08.19 9:04

Over entitled idiots. The COUNTRY, the ELECTORATE decided they want OUT and voted that way. Do you get the feeling some bad losers are STILL trying to spoil it for everybody? Were they raised by irresponsible parents who let them believe they can have what ever they want no matter what? No need to answer that . . . .

I said they would never let us leave the day after the referendum, and posted it on here somewhere. Was that really THREE YEARS AGO?
The Country was infiltrated too deeply for too long. The Common Purpose operation to put EU drones in positions of influence at every level of society was a successful stereotypical Marxist ploy. Anybody who went on a Common Purpose training course needs to be de-programmed.
Meanwhile, keep your fingers crossed and De Pfeffel might just get us out, but what motivates him I don't know.
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In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit? - Page 14 Empty Re: In hindsight, are you happy with the way you voted in Brexit?

Post by CaKeLoveR on 15.08.19 9:25

A thousand encores for your post.
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