The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™
Hello!

A very warm welcome to The Complete Mystery of Madeleine McCann™ forum.

Please log in, or register to view all the forums, then settle in and help us get to the truth about what really happened to Madeleine Beth McCann. Please note that your username should be different from your email address!

When posting please be mindful that this forum is primarily about the death of a three year old girl.

(Please note: if you register with the sole intention of disrupting or spamming, please don't expect to be a member for too long.)

Many thanks,

Jill Havern
Forum owner

Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Page 2 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Eddie & Keela: Top Dogs

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.12.09 23:38

aliberte wrote:Tony Can you Explain to this Non-Brit Why those Particular Dogs are so Well Known? We have Cadaver Dogs but I don't Know of any of the Teams or their Handlers by name.
I just googled 'Martin' 'Grime' 'Eddie' 'Keela' and this is what came up on the first page:

martin grime eddie keela
Showing results containing:

dogsKeelaMadeleineMadeleine McCannGrimecadaverodourapartment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Search Refiners1,140 results for
martin grime eddie k…:Show All
Youtube
BBC News

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Video Sites.search resultsP.J. POLICE FILE TRANSLATIONS -EDDIE & KEELA MARTIN GRIMES REPORT
Many Thanks Pamalam. EDDIE & KEELA MARTIN GRIMES REPORT. pamalam@hotmail.co.uk ... Eddie & Keela Martin Grimes Report. August 2007.

OPERATION TASK CANINE SEARCH REPORT ...
www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm - 64k - Cached

P.J. POLICE FILE TRANSLATIONS -EDDIE & KEELA MARTIN GRIMES
( To Martin Grime's Profile Report) ... When 'Keela' was nine months old she was tasked to search an ... MARTIN GRIMES RIGATORY. MARTIN GRIMES EDDIE ...
www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES_PERSONAL.htm - 57k - Cached

YouTube - New Cadaver Dogs VideoNew images of the work of the Cadaver dogs Eddie and Keela, released by Spanish TV Antena 3. 10th September 2008When trainer Martin Grime approached house 5A...
www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=AhgaJVARWz0 - 136k - Cached.Play

Video.YouTube - Madeleine McCann - Sniffer Dogs Eddie and KeelaA video showing Eddie and Keela (two forensic dogs) and their handler ex PC Martin Grime at work in Portugal on the case of Madeleine McCann. The dogs clearl...
www.youtube.com/watch?gl=ES&hl=es&v=8lrrMoUr3OA - 145k - Cached.Play Video.BBC

NEWS | UK | Magazine | How can a dog sniff through concrete?
... which are highly confidential - were developed by Eddie's handler Martin Grime, ... While rare, Eddie and partner Keela are not the only enhanced victim ...
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7263355.stm - 61k - Cached

JUSTICE FOR MADDIE AND THE TWINS: "WHERE A MURDER PROBABLY ...
Eddie & Keela (English Springers) Silvia B. Manager of the ... Martin Grime and Eddie. ... after reading the Eddie and Keela report there is no doubt ...
justiceformaddie.blogspot.com/2008/12/... - 225k - Cached

Martin Grimes, Eddie et Keela dans le "local du crime" : SOS ...- Translate
Click To Play Voici la vidéo complète du travail des deux chiens pisteurs dans l'appartement 5A. Le traiteur d'Eddie et de Keela, Martin...
sosmaddie.dhblogs.be/archive/2008/09/18/... - 117k

The Eddie and Keela Extended Videos
Martin Grime: 'What we should understand with this dog (Eddie) is that he only ... this is because, as Martin Grime explains, Eddie does not need to indicate ...
www.mccannfiles.com/id167.html - 124k - Cached

The dogs' work as described by their own handler - Jornal de ...
A heavily edited version of Martin Grimes report on Eddie & Keela's findings. PJ (not FBI! ... Eddie found odour and Keela found specimens in places and objects ...
joana-morais.blogspot.com/2008/08/dogs-work-as-described-... - 205k - Cached

The Eddie and Keela Searches/Videos
Martin Grime's official report from the PJ case files. Eddie and Keela short videos ... sniffer dogs, Eddie and Keela, arrive with their handler, Martin Grime. ...
www.mccannfiles.com/id161.html - 487k - Cached

++++++++++++++++++

Martin Grime, Eddie and Keela have been used in a number of countries, successfully, and Martin Grime has helped the FBI and other law enforcement agencies in the U.S.

P.S. Thanks once again DCB1 for raising this vital subject and reminding us all just how strong the dogs' evidence is
avatar
Tony Bennett

Posts : 14664
Reputation : 2801
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Clutching at straws

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.12.09 23:40

muratfan01 wrote:Ah Bennett once again divert attention away.

The evidence was not there to back things up was it.
Clutching at straws.

Or perhaps clutching at coconuts.

Of course, there's always the awful possibility that more evidence will turn up later.

It often does.
avatar
Tony Bennett

Posts : 14664
Reputation : 2801
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Guest on 14.12.09 23:41

@Tony Bennett wrote:
muratfan01 wrote:Ah Bennett once again divert attention away.

The evidence was not there to back things up was it.
Clutching at straws.

Or perhaps clutching at coconuts.

Of course, there's always the awful possibility that more evidence will turn up later.

It often does.

What evidence? There is/was no evidence.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Guest on 14.12.09 23:50

But What Separates these Dogs from say, the Cadaver Dogs Used in the Jaycee Lee Dugard case?
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Tony Bennett on 14.12.09 23:56

aliberte wrote:But What Separates these Dogs from say, the Cadaver Dogs Used in the Jaycee Lee Dugard case?
Probably very little, aliberte, in truth. But as I posted, Eddie has 'solved' some remarkable cases. His efforts in the Madeleine McCann case appear to have come up against the equally remarkable skills of the former head of the 40-strong government Media Monitoring Unit, the man who boasted that his role was 'to control what comes out in the media', the man who once compared Robert Murat to Ian Huntley...step forward, Clarence Mitchell, a master media manipulator.

A rare match for Eddie - two 'top dogs'.
avatar
Tony Bennett

Posts : 14664
Reputation : 2801
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Guest on 15.12.09 0:01

Ah, OK. So they are Dogs that have been Deployed in Very Difficult Circumstances and Cases with a High Rate of Success. I Was Unsure if they had Different Natural Talents, Superior Noses, or something Like that. They Certainly have an Impressive Record.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Guest on 15.12.09 0:05

Tony Bennett wrote :
"So, he sniffs the scent of a corpse which was being emitted from, and I quote directly from the source: "The inside of the vehicle through the seal around the door".

So then the bloodhound, the CSI dog, Keela, is brought in. And this is what we learn from Keela:

This vehicle was then subjected to a full physical examination by the PJ and no human remains were found. The CSI dog was then tasked to screen the vehicle. An alert indication was forthcoming from the rear driver's side of the boot area. Forensic samples were taken by the PJ and forwarded to a forensic laboratory [the Forensic Science Service] in the UK.

So, just where Eddie has sniffed the corpse, Keela confirms the location more precisely as, and again I quote from the source: "The rear driver's side of the boot area".

Putting those two reports together, we get, in short: "Eddie alerted to the floor of the Scenic". Or if I had put it even more precisely, Eddie and Keela alerted to the floor of the scenic.


Their combined noses sniffed a corpse and blood in the same location, on the floor of the Renault Scenic.."

You really don't pay any attention to details do you?

It took Eddie about 10 minutes to alert to the car (I'm not going to mention how often he was called back to that car).
Eddie produced an alert indication at the lower part of the driver’s door, that's where the compartment with the key fob is.

They didn't bring in Keela next, they took the car to another level of the car park where it was searched by the forensics team for several hours. After that they brought Keela in.

It took Keela about 4 minutes to alert to the baggage compartment (what you quoted doesn't say it was the floor she alerted to).
It took her another 18 minutes to alert to the compartment that contained the key fob.
When the key fob was hidden, it took both dogs only 1 minute to find it.
On the key fob was GM's DNA.

Nobody knows, not even his trainer, if he sniffed the scent of a corpse. And there's no evidence to back up your claim.

Now about those coconuts...
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by preciousramotswe on 15.12.09 8:39

For some odd reason TB thinks that the front driver's door is 'exactly the same place' as the boot.

I wonder what kind of a car he drives.

Grimes also makes it clear that Ediie could be alerting to blood, not corpse scent. But then, he has said that all along and all along Bennett has chosen to ignore it - it does complicate matters so, doesn't it?

preciousramotswe

Posts : 269
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by preciousramotswe on 15.12.09 8:44

aliberte wrote:Ah, OK. So they are Dogs that have been Deployed in Very Difficult Circumstances and Cases with a High Rate of Success. I Was Unsure if they had Different Natural Talents, Superior Noses, or something Like that. They Certainly have an Impressive Record.

There is actually no record of their success or failure available.

Grimes says that in 200 operations they failed to react to non-human matter, not that they were right 200 times - a crucial differemce.

The 100% success record is a myth.

The dogs, at the time they were in Jersey, were uncertificated because Grimes had allowed their license to lapse.

preciousramotswe

Posts : 269
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Tony Bennett on 15.12.09 8:50

badmanners wrote:
aliberte wrote:Ah, OK. So they are Dogs that have been Deployed in Very Difficult Circumstances and Cases with a High Rate of Success. I Was Unsure if they had Different Natural Talents, Superior Noses, or something Like that. They Certainly have an Impressive Record.

There is actually no record of their success or failure available.

Grimes says that in 200 operations they failed to react to non-human matter, not that they were right 200 times - a crucial differemce.

The 100% success record is a myth.

The dogs, at the time they were in Jersey, were uncertificated because Grimes had allowed their license to lapse.
The phrase 'clutching at straws' springs to mind.
avatar
Tony Bennett

Posts : 14664
Reputation : 2801
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by preciousramotswe on 15.12.09 8:52

@Tony Bennett wrote:
muratfan01 wrote:Ah Bennett once again divert attention away.

The evidence was not there to back things up was it.
Clutching at straws.

Or perhaps clutching at coconuts.

Of course, there's always the awful possibility that more evidence will turn up later.

It often does.

In the case of Jersey, it is highly unlikely that any further forensic evidence will be found at Haut de la garenne.

Months of time were spent, and several milions, on digging and sfiting thousands of tons of earth. The entire under floor area of the large house was dug out. Fields surrounding the house were also excavated.

And yet not one piece of bone datable to the period under investigation was found, merely older pieces which one could find all over Jersey - a densely populated little patch of earth since prehistoric times.

As for these 'sadistic paedophiles' - no doubt they existed, and much harm and horror they caused.

But was anyone killed? Were there murders, body burnings?

No evidence for any of it, but the lurid allegations gave the opportunity for some people to escape justice simply by discrediting the entire affair with extreme accusations that could not be supported.

I don't call that working for the victims, I call it a travesty.

preciousramotswe

Posts : 269
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by preciousramotswe on 15.12.09 8:53

@Tony Bennett wrote:
badmanners wrote:
aliberte wrote:Ah, OK. So they are Dogs that have been Deployed in Very Difficult Circumstances and Cases with a High Rate of Success. I Was Unsure if they had Different Natural Talents, Superior Noses, or something Like that. They Certainly have an Impressive Record.

There is actually no record of their success or failure available.

Grimes says that in 200 operations they failed to react to non-human matter, not that they were right 200 times - a crucial differemce.

The 100% success record is a myth.

The dogs, at the time they were in Jersey, were uncertificated because Grimes had allowed their license to lapse.
The phrase 'clutching at straws' springs to mind.

Don't be an idiot Tony.

It's absoluitely crucial to whether or not the dogs can be seen as being reliable. I don't think you have any understanding of the nuances of the case. You see everything in stark black and white terms and not for the first time you end up making critical and basic mistakes because of it.

preciousramotswe

Posts : 269
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by DCB1 on 15.12.09 8:56

TB - thanks for your prompt replies. You have not convinced me that Eddie alerted to the floor of the Scenic.

DCB1

Posts : 334
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-04

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Old Nick on 15.12.09 9:55

These are all mere piffling technicalities. Tony knows better than anyone else, he is a master of this subject. Don't contradict him. He has important work to do.

Old Nick

Posts : 154
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-01
Age : 51
Location : Hades

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by sans_souci on 15.12.09 12:27

Of course Old Nick. Too much concentration on evidence and facts and other broing aspects of the case is very tedious, and as you say Tony has important work to do and should be left alone to get on with it.

sans_souci

Posts : 58
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Old Nick on 15.12.09 12:46

Precisely Sans-Souci. I am glad to say that we are in complete accord on this matter.

Old Nick

Posts : 154
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-01
Age : 51
Location : Hades

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by sans_souci on 15.12.09 12:56

Yes, Nick. In fact I think maybe it is hard for Tony to keep focussed, which he will have to if he is going to solve this case, so perhaps a place could be found for him where he can work entirely undisturbed for however many years it takes. A bit like the hermits of old.

sans_souci

Posts : 58
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Old Nick on 15.12.09 16:06

I have plenty of room in my place. Tony is welcome anytime.

Old Nick

Posts : 154
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-01
Age : 51
Location : Hades

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Slartibartfast on 15.12.09 16:08

@Old Nick wrote:I have plenty of room in my place. Tony is welcome anytime.

Where is your place?

Is it warm there?

Slartibartfast

Posts : 135
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-07

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Old Nick on 15.12.09 19:08

Toasty.

Old Nick

Posts : 154
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-12-01
Age : 51
Location : Hades

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Guest on 15.12.09 20:14

Right Bennett, can you answer this simple question.

WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE TO BACK UP THE DOGS BARKING TO MADELEINE BEING DEAD?

Even Grimes stated that evidence needs to back up the dogs, but there was not any evidence. No Forensics, no nothing.

So as the saying goes...PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Guest on 15.12.09 20:23

muratfan01 wrote:Right Bennett, can you answer this simple question.

WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE TO BACK UP THE DOGS BARKING TO MADELEINE BEING DEAD?

Even Grimes stated that evidence needs to back up the dogs, but there was not any evidence. No Forensics, no nothing.

So as the saying goes...PUT UP OR SHUT UP.


What Grimes means is that in a court of law you need evidence to back up the dogs. Their evidence alone will not be used. It doesn't mean that the dogs didn't smell cadaver odour in certain places or find blood, just that it was not enough. Even if they found trace evidence, without a body it would still be very difficult to obtain a conviction, although this has happened. on occasions, although rarely.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

With overwhelming circumstantial evidence, you don't necessarily need the forensics

Post by Tony Bennett on 15.12.09 21:09

muratfan01 wrote:Right Bennett, can you answer this simple question.

WHAT EVIDENCE IS THERE TO BACK UP THE DOGS BARKING TO MADELEINE BEING DEAD?
PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
I've answered this previously elsewhere and will give the same answer as I gave before.

Circumstantial evidence.

Loads of it.

But I can't discuss it properly because I am gagged by a Court undertaking imposed on me by Carter-Ruck.

If there is ever any reason for that undertaking to be lifted, I'll give you more information.

Of course others on here could post merrily away citing what they see as circumstantial evidence that backs up Eddie and Keela, as they are not bound by an injunction the same as I am.

With overwhelming circumstantial evidence, you don't necessarily need the forensics.

Tony
avatar
Tony Bennett

Posts : 14664
Reputation : 2801
Join date : 2009-11-25
Age : 69
Location : Shropshire

Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Guest on 15.12.09 21:58

@Tony Bennett wrote:
I've answered this previously elsewhere and will give the same answer as I gave before.

Circumstantial evidence.

Loads of it.

But I can't discuss it properly because I am gagged by a Court undertaking imposed on me by Carter-Ruck.

If there is ever any reason for that undertaking to be lifted, I'll give you more information.

Of course others on here could post merrily away citing what they see as circumstantial evidence that backs up Eddie and Keela, as they are not bound by an injunction the same as I am.

With overwhelming circumstantial evidence, you don't necessarily need the forensics.

Tony

Bennett i know that you have tried to be a Solicitor before , but even you know that circumstantial evidence is useless without real hard evidence to back it up.

Look i know you never even passed a Solicitors exam, but i would have though that this simple part of Law should not have passed you by.

Also you are not gagged by a court, because you acceded before you got to court, therefore a court did not impose it, UNLESS you should be telling us something.

Circumstantial evidence is useless without corroborating evidence. You know that, so stop twisting evertything to suit you. Others may not know the difference but i do.
avatar
Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: Bennett identifies a new Eddie alert - could it re-open the case?

Post by Finally on 15.12.09 22:02

Hi

I wouldn't want to be convicted on the dogs sniffing and alerting alone if I was suspected of a crime. I do think the dogs are marvellous with what they do but it isn't actual proof of anything really unless something more tangible is shown to support it.

Take care

Finally

Posts : 85
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-11-27

Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 6 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum