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Post by Soekie on 01.04.19 21:36

After watching the documentary about the case that never left my mind and leaved me astonished, I was shocked.

No I am looking for a decent forum to discuss the case and all kind of theories. I am NOT looking for tunnelvisions were the conclusion is already drafted beforehand like here seems to be the case!!

Some remarks which left me puzzled after I saw the documentary

1 - Organ harvesting has been a problem worldwide. It was especially in those years and known in this regio to be a problem. Admitted, usually you get the child back, missing a kidney or something. But that is of course not always possible because of:
- maybe they needed a vital organ
- maybe she died due the operation
- maybe no one really cared, so she died ...

2 There is said to have been a man around asking for money for British kids, seen around the appartment...
Even so this man has been seen entering into so house spending time with the (black haired) daughter of 3 years old --> another child abduction just 1 week before Maddie disappeared!!!

Why did the media never share this information so everyone could go hunting for this man?


3 It seems that they believe Maddie is just fine somewhere: if the girl is alive: children extremely rarely have memories from before the age of 6 ... she won't have any accent at all when she speaks a new language.
She herself will not know that she is Maddie. Unless one day she hears about it (maybe by seeing netflix Wink ) and notices she has this birthmark in her eye, and she could be the girl...
But, see my next point: 4

4 There is spoken about a woman in Barcelona asking: "do you have my daughter?" & then "Do you have the child?" and then disappearing. This hours after Maddies disappearence.
Why is there no robot picture of her??
Because of the distance I think this doesn't make much sense, expect you realise there is an airport in Malaga or in Sevilla, than it may make sense.
But how long did it took them before the seal of the borders? Long, because it took 90 minutes for the cops to arrive...

Though: where in the world can a women all the sudden appear with a child of 3 yoa, wo any explanation, pregnancy, resembling Maddie, needing childcare, medical care, education, ... wo having anyone notices this in the whole environment or making the link to Maddie's disappearance?
Unfortunately for the parents, this seems quite impossible to me.
No one can live on an isle... with everyone around being silent knowing how widespread there's being sought after the girl.


5: in concordance with 1, Portugal is a very poor region, hotel personell doesn't earn much ... but lots of people are working there, from lots of different classes, with possible lots of contacts going everywhere...
That is what I would check out first!!!!
They would know from everyone everything that needs to be known and its even possible they made some arrangements ...
Was there anyone around acting suspicious, looking for information? Controling or checking anything? Walking or passing by? Strange cars, men, women, that had n't booked, or that had booked but were extremely non-fitting for tourists?
Why would so note in a book: (booking here so that the children can stay alone :-S).

6: In light of what I see here
Accusations of the parents are based on the dog sniffing :
If so (say the parentst) would have killed Maddie, even accidently, why so stupid to shed blood? This is all but necessary ... Blood leaves traces ... They have been educated both for almost 10 years, they 'll know enough ways to murder wo blood shedding, especially such a young child that will never resist. Plus it all starts with a base of chemistry: they will sure know how to clean it up ...
Of course, people can get wounded. On holiday you get bruises and sometimes wounds, a bleeding nose maybe from the heat...
So I don't think this means anything. Besides the places where this so called bodily fluids or body odours have been found made no sense...
A body could have been there before. Unfortunately this happens in holiday resorts and more often than you think.
People get drunk, try new things (drugs), get confused a lot in a place unknown so that accidents happen (most accidents happen inside houses - or holiday stayings even more because of unfamiliarity with the place), get in contact with strange food, bacteria and viruses, get ill, or are on an age, or do already have a severe disease, which is the reason they seek a nice place to spent their last time on earth ...
Of course no hotel / resort / destination will pack out with this, but if you go on holiday yourself in this region you can look for yourse: from costa del sol to algarve.
As is known, russian maffia and all other kinds of criminality: smuggling drugs, human trafficking, migration, peadophiles, drugs, ...
Btw I doubt if the scent of a death body becomes so penetrating immediately so that a dog could smell it? Happily I don't know...

Even if it is true that there never died someone on this particular appartment. Furniture could have been replaced, bedsheets, pillows... or someone could have taken something with them eg clothes from their beloved deceased ones and layed it in the appartment for a long time to mourn.
I myself often buy secondhand, you never know the history of something. And even that: you don't know what happened in the factories.

7: As has been said in the documentary: it is very unlikely that a huge group of 7 people would conspirate (although i see larger numbers here). Though it is not impossible that a smaller group of them knows more... when you know each other well for a long time, you have all kinds of information about each other - so blackmailing is possible...

8: As a doctor carrying a syringe is everything but strange. Lots of peoples carry them with them, or even worse...

9: Anyhow, holiday destinations are beautiful, but attracts criminals too. I myself have always been adviced not to travel alone and especially, on the costa del sol and further, in a region so close to africa and with so many nationalities, allbeit illegal or not, travelling in and outside, in so many airports, often attracting people to temporarily or permanently housing there, often because they are not well accepted by their own environment, or want something else...But as said in he documentary: everyone there lies. People go live there a beautiful life in concordance with nature, the sea, the ocean, the sun, it attracts, but often also they go run from a (messy) past...
These regions live from tourism, and will do everything for the tourists to keep up appearances so don't trust to much there... and especially: don't leave your children alone when it is already dark and they are so little.
But in contemporary times, - i also thought already back then- there are solutions for this of all kinds.


So if I was investigating, I would start with the hotel personnell and all there whereabouts and their connections, the group of 7 and everyone who could witness this story... and everyone near the hotel who could have witnessed anything, checking everyone who had stayed there on that moment or just the period before.

Someone, out there, knows what happened...



What do you think of my ideas?
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Post by Verdi on 01.04.19 22:03

Soekie wrote:
No I am looking for a decent forum to discuss the case and all kind of theories. I am NOT looking for tunnelvisions were the conclusion is already drafted beforehand like here seems to be the case!!

Hang on right there .... am I getting mixed messages in that one short sentence?  

If you don't mind my saying, CMOMM has been in existence for over nine years, many members past and present have followed the case from the beginning.  If you care to take the time to explore the forum, you will clearly see that alternative theories have been presented and discussed over and over again, I'm happy to say we are now in a more organized and productive position than ever before.  This has been achieved through a diligent approach to all available evidence, thorough research and analysis by many people, some with expertise in a broad spectrum of professional fields.

I find it rather insulting that you come here from out of the blue with criticism of the forum's approach to the case.

Keep on trucking!

By the way, welcome to CMOMM!

NB: Your user name seems familiar - is it an anagram of something?

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Post by Flossy on 01.04.19 22:13

Just a thought about point 3....it would be misleading to say that children very rarely have memories before the age of 6. In fact, on average, people have childhood memories from the age of 3, with some even earlier than that.
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Post by Jill Havern on 01.04.19 22:15

I can quite clearly remember being in my cot aged two looking at the weird patterns in the wallpaper and watching car headlights coming through the window.
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Post by Hobs on 02.04.19 1:24

I can  remember to being 18 months at the oldest living in a small cottage in a tiny village called Brayford in North Devon and staying with the local vicar and his wife when my mom went into hospital to have my  brother who sadly died aged almost two due to road accident.
I remember playing the big wooden rocking horse in the garden complete with outdoor loo, I remember blaming my dad for scaring off all the birds when he shot a couple one day.
I remember falling out the window in the cottage, a window that had been painted shut for decades, i opened it and fell out and apparently landed on my head on concrete (which probably explains a lot)
I also remember falling down the stairs one day and landing in the tin bath tub we had which mom had filled with soapy water to do laundry or something, being dried off and placed in my high chair watching horse racing.
 I remember going with the vicar and his wife to the local bonfire night and being scared witless of a glowing Guy Fawkes mask in the hedge, being taken home and them having indoor fireworks.
I remember going to the local infants school and joining in the classes despite being about 3 years younger than the rest of the class, probably because the vicars wife taught there and she took me to work whilst mom and dad worked at RAF Chivenor.
I remeber the big black buck we had that kept eating his way out his rabbit cage and dad playing hunt the bunny and one of the locals laughing and saying said rabbit couldn't do such a thing.
Dad hand said bunny to the man and a day or so later he too played the hunt the bunny game.
We had a dog called lucky and dad drove and old Citroen DS.
I remember other things but i can't be too sure on the exact but probably 2-3 or so when we had  moved to Barnstaple and dad drove a white rally Volkswagen with a black hood,  the number 53 on the side (Herbie) and an arch of headlights on the front and on the roof (Porsche engine squeezed inside and it was a real tight fit) and air horns and he would comedown the long driveway to our row of flats and everybody heard him coming.
I remember being about 4 and going to the airshow at RAF Chivenor and not feeling very well and getting  home feeling awful and being diagnosed with German Measles, i also remember Mumps, measles, chicken pox and having my bedroom turned into a steam room to help, my bros also had it and the youngest was in his cot covered in blankets with a kettle going underneath.

Ruined the wallpaper in the married quarters house we lived in, 7 Torridge road.

I remember our dememnted and very protective Shetland Sheepdog called Lucy having puppies and constantly moulting.
I remember the day my brother was run over, the long mobile shop normally turned around at the bottom of the road and this time he reversed.
My brother had kicked his ball over the unlocked back gate and he went out to get it.
It was instant.
I remember the driver sitting on our stair crying hysterically and i remember telling him it was OK.
I remember the hearse outside the house the day of his funeral but my parents wouldn't let me go with them.
I remember finding my mom when she Od'd and telling my dad and him slapping her face to try and get her to wake up.
Luckily she survived but she was never the same after that losing her toddler son and her grandmother in a short space of time.


I have vivid memories from when i was very young.

I wonder what the mccann twins remember?
Kate told us she was surprised by what they remembered.

Now why would that be worth mentioning?

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Post by PeterMac on 02.04.19 8:21

Jill Havern wrote:I can quite clearly remember being in my cot aged two looking at the weird patterns in the wallpaper and watching car headlights coming through the window.
I can clearly remember seeing a film of Mickey Mouse at Grimsby Church House, tiny screen at the far end of a 'huge hall' and an image which was very frightening as it suddenly 'zoomed' in.
It was the party for the Coronation of HM QEII .  2 June 1953 
I was born on 15th June, so I was still 2

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Post by charyoung on 04.04.19 14:08

If Madeleine is alive then I would start with the note placed in the book, only so many people could have seen it, she may have been adopted to a elite family that paid for her it may have been achieved by using many people at the resort or connected to the place, it would require a level of organization, her new family may have told her they needed move regularly, due to business, to dye their hair and wear contacts to avoid detection by those that would want to kidnap her (ironically) therefor disguising herself. Perhaps keeping a low profile out of the public eye, telling her it's for this reason. I think any theory around accidentally killing her by the parents just doesn't make sense for many reasons their medical knowledge, timing, etc. I hope the new dna technology can clear up once and for all whether it was her dna in the car or anywhere else.
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Post by Verdi on 04.04.19 16:11

https://jillhavern.forumotion.net/t14767p100-documented-evidence#399928

Enough of this tomfoolery.

Thread locked - pending refuse collection.

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Post by sharonl on 04.04.19 22:17

I seem to remember things from a very early age, especially things that were either exciting or scary.

If Madeleine was taken awake, or woke up to strangers, at the age of four, she would most definitely remember that. I don't think that a four year old would forget her name either.

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