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Post by Verdi on 20.03.19 11:39

What happened to the neck and the rest of the body?

Before you start with your  blah  this was Jane Tanner's morphman and Andy Redwood's totman..

WHAT WAS IN THE MIND OF OPERATION GRANGE, WHEN THEY SET ABOUT PREPARING THE CRIMEWATCH PROGRAMME? - Page 3 Tannerman

This was Martin Smith's mccannman..

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Post by plebgate on 20.03.19 11:44

When they first came out I thought the first efit looked like Brunty as did others who posted the same thought.

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Post by Guest on 20.03.19 12:07

It's as clear as the nose on your face (to keep it in an e-fits context) that the Smiths sighting irks some people on this forum, that is my impression anyways.
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Post by Liz Eagles on 20.03.19 12:11

HKP wrote:It's as clear as the nose on your face (to keep it in an e-fits context) that the Smiths sighting irks some people on this forum, that is my impression anyways.

By the same token it irks yourself enough to sit here day after day saying nothing much.
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Post by Guest on 20.03.19 12:22

aquila wrote:
HKP wrote:It's as clear as the nose on your face (to keep it in an e-fits context) that the Smiths sighting irks some people on this forum, that is my impression anyways.

By the same token it irks yourself enough to sit here day after day saying nothing much.
Thank you @aquila

I'll put you in at No. 1 in the irked chart (we might even get to a top 10)
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Post by skyrocket on 20.03.19 12:30

How did Martin Smith get (if in fact he did) from what he states, to either of the actual efits - both of which are very detailed and almost photo quality?

26 May 07':

States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.



And, 23 Jan 08':

I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.


I'm with Tony on this one - I think the bigger picture (and IMO it's big) is where we need to be looking. I appreciate that it's a massive step to go from taking everything almost at face value and as stand alone components, but if you take a step back and look at the wider picture and consider that all the components might actually be linked I've found (and I stress this is only my point of view) that things seem to make more sense.


Why does the Martin Smith 2nd statement echo the earlier 2nd McCluskey statement?

How can efits have been produced when the Smiths had no recollection of the man's face they say they saw?
Why the ridiculous and contradictory statements made by the McCluskeys?
Why are some statements hand written?
Why are some hand written statements only available in part?
Why are names in these statements given wrongly when there is no reason for it, particularly as the statements would have been checked?
Etc, etc, etc ..........

I believe we are being played - almost nothing I look at connected to this case rings true, from statements to written records.
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Post by Liz Eagles on 20.03.19 12:31

HKP wrote:
aquila wrote:
HKP wrote:It's as clear as the nose on your face (to keep it in an e-fits context) that the Smiths sighting irks some people on this forum, that is my impression anyways.

By the same token it irks yourself enough to sit here day after day saying nothing much.
Thank you @aquila

I'll put you in at No. 1 in the irked chart (we might even get to a top 10)

Sarcasm becomes you.

Shame about Madeleine though.

As you were. Carry on needling.
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Post by Guest on 20.03.19 13:02

aquila wrote:
HKP wrote:
aquila wrote:
HKP wrote:It's as clear as the nose on your face (to keep it in an e-fits context) that the Smiths sighting irks some people on this forum, that is my impression anyways.

By the same token it irks yourself enough to sit here day after day saying nothing much.
Thank you @aquila

I'll put you in at No. 1 in the irked chart (we might even get to a top 10)

Sarcasm becomes you.

Shame about Madeleine though.

As you were. Carry on needling.
I think you will find my retort was to your insult of "sit here every day saying nothing much"



Turning your sarcasm back to you, how does that statement help Madeleine?


There's a saying that 'the only way to get the best of an argument is to avoid it'. I'm happy enough to leave it there, there are plenty things in life that people don't agree with me and I with them.
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Post by Liz Eagles on 20.03.19 13:04

No more replies from me.
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Post by BlueBag on 20.03.19 14:45

Skyrocket is correct in my opinion.

Smiths went from vague to detailed.

Not buying it.
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Post by willowthewisp on 20.03.19 16:43

@BlueBag wrote:Skyrocket is correct in my opinion.

Smiths went from vague to detailed.

Not buying it.
Hi bluebag, that is a puzzling moment on e-fits, "Not being able to recognise person's face" half shielded by Girls Head,shoulders, did Henri Exton, Kevin Haligen show the e-fits of Two different faces he drew up to the Smith family, that the McCann family kept from becoming exposed for several years? 

If, an abduction plan had become part of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann scenario, as has been put forward, then the probability of a substitute child being used could have been instigated, was this the "Biggest fu*k Up Robert Murat refers to" in the "Moving time frame",Gerry's last moment of Madeleine asleep in her Bed 21.05 pm to the Jes Wilkens waltz,Jane tanner 21.15-21.20 pm, Not now Mathew check 21.30 pm?
To the claimed Smith family sighting of a Man carrying a child over his Left shoulder at 22.00 PM Forty minutes later, 3 May 2007!

Only the Taps 7/9, Kate, Gerry know for certain, they All Chose neglected their duties to Madeleine McCann by Not returning back to Portugal to Re-enact the last night meal time 3 May 2007,Why,what have you got to hide,None disclosure Agreement,Carter Ruck,Clarence Mitchell, Bird?

Whatever has gone on in regard to the disappearance of a little Three year old girl named Madeleine McCann, be it a staged event to have happened as a "Cover Up" as to what may have happened, this investigation has had perhaps £120 million by TV exposures,Operation Grange,Zilch after Eight years and Twelve years by Three different UK Police Squads, Interpol, Paedophiles Gangs, Zilch?
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Post by Phoebe on 20.03.19 18:47

I'm still awaiting an answer to the question, now posed several times. If the Smiths are cooperating with the McCanns why have the McCanns not asked Martin Smith to publicly retract his claim that he and his wife believe "Smithman" was Gerry.
 If someone had accused me of something, and that accusation was in the public domain, leading people to question innocence, my number 1 priority when they "came aboard my team" would be to get them to publicly retract that very damaging claim which they made about me!!!!
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Post by Liz Eagles on 20.03.19 19:04

@Phoebe wrote:I'm still awaiting an answer to the question, now posed several times. If the Smiths are cooperating with the McCanns why have the McCanns not asked Martin Smith to publicly retract his claim that he and his wife believe "Smithman" was Gerry.
 If someone had accused me of something, and that accusation was in the public domain, leading people to question innocence, my number 1 priority when they "came aboard my team" would be to get them to publicly retract that very damaging claim which they made about me!!!!

The Smith family seemingly cooperated with the private investigators employed by the McCanns to construct two efits. This would be the Smith family who were/remain 60-80 percent certain the person they saw was Gerald McCann.
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Post by Phoebe on 20.03.19 19:54

aquila wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:I'm still awaiting an answer to the question, now posed several times. If the Smiths are cooperating with the McCanns why have the McCanns not asked Martin Smith to publicly retract his claim that he and his wife believe "Smithman" was Gerry.
 If someone had accused me of something, and that accusation was in the public domain, leading people to question innocence, my number 1 priority when they "came aboard my team" would be to get them to publicly retract that very damaging claim which they made about me!!!!

The Smith family seemingly cooperated with the private investigators employed by the McCanns to construct two efits. This would be the Smith family who were/remain 60-80 percent certain the person they saw was Gerald McCann.
Yes, this would also be the Smith family who have never retracted their claim that Gerry was "Smithman". Indeed, the self-same family who told Gemma O'Doherty that they had never changed their opinion about this and still stood over that claim. The same Smith family whose interview with Gemma O'Doherty was published By "Village" and then picked up by U.K. press. The same Smith family who are allegedly working for Team McCann yet have never been asked by Team McCann to retract that damning claim!!!!
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Post by Liz Eagles on 20.03.19 20:01

@Phoebe wrote:
aquila wrote:
@Phoebe wrote:I'm still awaiting an answer to the question, now posed several times. If the Smiths are cooperating with the McCanns why have the McCanns not asked Martin Smith to publicly retract his claim that he and his wife believe "Smithman" was Gerry.
 If someone had accused me of something, and that accusation was in the public domain, leading people to question innocence, my number 1 priority when they "came aboard my team" would be to get them to publicly retract that very damaging claim which they made about me!!!!

The Smith family seemingly cooperated with the private investigators employed by the McCanns to construct two efits. This would be the Smith family who were/remain 60-80 percent certain the person they saw was Gerald McCann.
Yes, this would also be the Smith family who have never retracted their claim that Gerry was "Smithman". Indeed, the self-same family who told Gemma O'Doherty that they had never changed their opinion about this and still stood over that claim. The same Smith family whose interview with Gemma O'Doherty was published By "Village" and then picked up by U.K. press. The same Smith family who are allegedly working for Team McCann yet have never been asked by Team McCann to retract that damning claim!!!!

The same Smith family who over the last twelve years have chosen not to engage with MSM but now choose to give an interview.
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Post by Verdi on 20.03.19 20:59

@Phoebe wrote:  If someone had accused me of something, and that accusation was in the public domain, leading people to question innocence, my number 1 priority when they "came aboard my team" would be to get them to publicly retract that very damaging claim which they made about me!!!!

Try a wide angle lens yes .

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Post by Phoebe on 20.03.19 21:02

@ aquila. I'm glad you agree that the Smiths did not engage with MSM -despite the alleged "quotes" from the red tops while they were still bound by Judicial Secrecy. AFAIK they still have not engaged with "MSM".
 "Village mag." is known for being less than well disposed toward the "established" media. Frankly, given the appalling vilification this family has been subjected to from certain quarters over the years, I'm pleasantly surprised they did speak to Gemma. They obviously felt she was trustworthy.

@Verdi-  You advise "Try a wide angled lens."

 I  find it sufficient to just avoid blinkers.  big grin
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Post by Liz Eagles on 20.03.19 21:18

Dearest Phoebe, I disagree with almost everything you write.
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Post by Tony Bennett on 20.03.19 23:28

@Verdi, @BlueBag, @skyrocket and @aquila are longstanding, highly respected and active contributors to the forum whose views are carefully thought out.

They would not say the things they've said about the Smithman sighting & efits without a great deal of thought

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Dr Martin Roberts: "The evidence is that these are the pjyamas Madeleine wore on holiday in Praia da Luz. They were photographed and the photo handed to a press agency, who released it on 8 May, as the search for Madeleine continued. The McCanns held up these same pyjamas at two press conferences on 5 & 7June 2007. How could Madeleine have been abducted?"

Amelie Mcann (aged 2): "Maddie's jammies!".  

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Post by Phoebe on 21.03.19 0:05

aquila wrote:Dearest Phoebe, I disagree with almost everything you write.
No problem aquila, we are all entitled to our points of view.  smilie
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Post by Guest on 21.03.19 13:52

@Tony Bennett wrote:@Verdi, @BlueBag, @skyrocket and @aquila are longstanding, highly respected and active contributors to the forum whose views are carefully thought out.

They would not say the things they've said about the Smithman sighting & efits without a great deal of thought
Personally I think that post is disrespectful to the majority of forum members. You are basically implying that other than a selected few (which conform to your own view/opinion) no other poster/members views are valid/worthy/appreciated.


For this particular thread (which once again has been turned into a Smith bashing excercise) I propose this:
For @verdi I raise you Dr Amaral
For @ bluebag I raise you the PJ
For @ skyrocket I raise you Pat Brown
For@ Aquila I raise you 66% of forum members who have the opinion that the Smith's saw someone that night, therefore did not fabricate a sighting (according to your own poll).


Those people I have identified believe the Smith's (sighting), the first two actually have first hand knowledge of the case something the team of amateurs here (and I include myself) don't.
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Post by Verdi on 21.03.19 15:04

The thread was initiated with good intentions - the dubious function of Operation Grange, a question that's been under thespotlight since creation in May 2011, which became more incredulous when declared to be an investigation in May 2013.

It was indeed one of the primary more vocal members of the Smith support faction that immediately jumped in turning it into yet another Smithman thread.

In your own words HKP..

HKP wrote:It's as clear as the nose on your face (to keep it in an e-fits context) that the Smiths sighting irks some people on this forum, that is my impression anyways.

It sure does and it makes you wonder why.

Rest assured I'm closely watching the thread and if it's futher disrupted irrelvant comments will be moved or the thread will be locked. Be warned!

Now back on topic please.

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Post by Phoebe on 21.03.19 15:50

@Tony Bennett wrote:WHAT WAS IN THE MIND OF OPERATION GRANGE, WHEN THEY SET ABOUT PREPARING THE CRIMEWATCH PROGRAMME? 

Inevitably, the ‘Smithman’ sighting has been prominent in both the Netflix documentary and in Mark Saunokonoko’s podcasts. 

For Operation Grange, Smithman was ‘the centre of our focus’. And you can’t get much more central than that. 

For some, maybe many, on this forum, Smithman is Gerry McCann. Some on Twitter proclaim this as a ‘FACT’. 

So, for Operation Grange, Smithman is the yet-to-be-found abductor. 

For others, Smithman is Gerrry McCann. 

For me, as is known, I consider Smithman a total fabrication, a view I share with U.S. former attorney, child psychologist and child sexual abuse expert, Wendy Murphy. 

To try and tease out how we should view Smithman, I am setting up a poll asking this question: 

What was in the minds of Operation Grange (and obviously in the minds of the most senior  Metropolitan Police officers), when they agreed to commission, at huge expense, the BBC Crimewatch McCann Special that aired in October 2013?  

They could have chosen, much earlier (they had the efits in mid-2011) to simply do a press conference holding up the Smithman images. Why, instead, did they spend so much effort on a misleading reconstruction and putting together an hour-long show? 

Here I think are the main alternatives:

 
1  This was a genuine search for the missing abductor

They were sure/almost sure Gerry McCann was Smithman, so the Crimewatch show was to move towards arresting him

They knew that Smithman was fabricated and just wanted to use the programme to promote the abduction narrative. 

4   Some other reason was in their minds.
 

I can’t see many other alternatives, so here’s the poll.

I'm voting (3)
This was the VERY FIRST POST under this heading. Clearly that poster introduced the Smith sighting into the discussion.
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Post by Guest on 21.03.19 16:24

@Verdi


Not to go off topic however if you make an error it's only polite someone let's you know. You stated....


"It was indeed one of the primary more vocal members of the Smith support faction that immediately jumped in turning it into yet another Smithman thread."


The initial post on this thread only managed to get two words in then Smithman was introduced. The question asked actually was nothing to do with Smithman!
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Post by willowthewisp on 21.03.19 16:39

You could answer the Four questions with Yes, No, unsure, so multiple of Twelve replies?

 A former Assistant Commander of Metropolitan Police Service, Mark Rowley, DCI Andy Redwood,DCS Hamish Campbell, DCI Simon Foy(nodding head foy) have all stated one thing, The McCann's and the Tapas 7/9 friends are Not person's of interest and have Not been cautioned by the Metropolitan Police force Service- Operation Grange!

Therefore any other Human life form cannot instantly be exonerated as Not being associated to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann 3 May 2007, unless you were accounted for elsewhere on that Date.

The name of the next "Carry On" Production, sorry for being flippant, but it is what it is a?

The Gold Group, Leicestershire, Metropolitan Police, Interpol, Twelve years later, still No suspects charged with anything to do with the disappearance, reported as 3 May 2007 by her parents, Kate,Gerry to Portugal PJ.GNR.

This case is tied into the Libel Defamation claim against Mr Goncalo Amaral, "The truth of the Lie",when clever person's manged to persuade a former UK Prime Minister to bring in Home secretary, Theresa May to facilitate funds for, Operation Grange, remit abduction eight years ago, Zilch!
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